Edward Jones/MFS
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I guess my point would be I sense Jones is selling this to the advisors as the “best in the industry” when many of the advisors don’t know what the rest of the industry is doing.
Also I fear they are selling the optimized management (read better performance), and not providing better, more objective advice to the client. Stuff like this hurts the industry.
Wow! This post is so dumb I hardly know where to start. I guess I will start with the first sentence. 1: You "sense" how Jones is selling this to Advisors. There you go using your superpowers again. 2: Jones is selling it as "best in the industry". Should they sell it as "3rd best"? 3: "Many Advisors don't know what the rest of the industry is doing." So Jones Advisors should be required to pass a test on other platforms before they can sell ours? 4: You "fear" they are selling..." Really? You FEAR that? Are you so FEARFUL you won't go out at night or cross the road alone? Give me a break you drama queen. 5: You fear Jones FAs are selling better performance instead of better advice? You can't prove better performance or better advice until the future. You have to know the outcome to prove which was better. Here is what I fear. I fear you are a bitter little person who can't respond to a topic in an enlightening or informative way so you look for every opportunity to insult Advisors at a firm where you don't work. Why don't you spend some time sharing your knowledge and experience and back off on the insulting other people.I guess my point would be I sense Jones is selling this to the advisors as the “best in the industry” when many of the advisors don’t know what the rest of the industry is doing.
Also I fear they are selling the optimized management (read better performance), and not providing better, more objective advice to the client. Stuff like this hurts the industry.
Wow! This post is so dumb I hardly know where to start. I guess I will start with the first sentence. 1: You "sense" how Jones is selling this to Advisors. There you go using your superpowers again. 2: Jones is selling it as "best in the industry". Should they sell it as "3rd best"? 3: "Many Advisors don't know what the rest of the industry is doing." So Jones Advisors should be required to pass a test on other platforms before they can sell ours? 4: You "fear" they are selling..." Really? You FEAR that? Are you so FEARFUL you won't go out at night or cross the road alone? Give me a break you drama queen. 5: You fear Jones FAs are selling better performance instead of better advice? You can't prove better performance or better advice until the future. You have to know the outcome to prove which was better. Here is what I fear. I fear you are a bitter little person who can't respond to a topic in an enlightening or informative way so you look for every opportunity to insult Advisors at a firm where you don't work. Why don't you spend some time sharing your knowledge and experience and back off on the insulting other people.[/quote][quote=LuvIndy]I guess my point would be I sense Jones is selling this to the advisors as the “best in the industry” when many of the advisors don’t know what the rest of the industry is doing.
Also I fear they are selling the optimized management (read better performance), and not providing better, more objective advice to the client. Stuff like this hurts the industry.
owned
Wow! This post is so dumb I hardly know where to start. I guess I will start with the first sentence. 1: You "sense" how Jones is selling this to Advisors. There you go using your superpowers again. 2: Jones is selling it as "best in the industry". Should they sell it as "3rd best"? 3: "Many Advisors don't know what the rest of the industry is doing." So Jones Advisors should be required to pass a test on other platforms before they can sell ours? 4: You "fear" they are selling..." Really? You FEAR that? Are you so FEARFUL you won't go out at night or cross the road alone? Give me a break you drama queen. 5: You fear Jones FAs are selling better performance instead of better advice? You can't prove better performance or better advice until the future. You have to know the outcome to prove which was better. Here is what I fear. I fear you are a bitter little person who can't respond to a topic in an enlightening or informative way so you look for every opportunity to insult Advisors at a firm where you don't work. Why don't you spend some time sharing your knowledge and experience and back off on the insulting other people.[/quote][quote=LuvIndy]I guess my point would be I sense Jones is selling this to the advisors as the “best in the industry” when many of the advisors don’t know what the rest of the industry is doing.
Also I fear they are selling the optimized management (read better performance), and not providing better, more objective advice to the client. Stuff like this hurts the industry.
Dude until you've lived outside of the cult you are clueless. Sorry for looking out for the clients, oh wait, I guess I'm not at the only firm that looks out for the clients anymore.
Wow! This post is so dumb I hardly know where to start. I guess I will start with the first sentence. 1: You "sense" how Jones is selling this to Advisors. There you go using your superpowers again. 2: Jones is selling it as "best in the industry". Should they sell it as "3rd best"? 3: "Many Advisors don't know what the rest of the industry is doing." So Jones Advisors should be required to pass a test on other platforms before they can sell ours? 4: You "fear" they are selling..." Really? You FEAR that? Are you so FEARFUL you won't go out at night or cross the road alone? Give me a break you drama queen. 5: You fear Jones FAs are selling better performance instead of better advice? You can't prove better performance or better advice until the future. You have to know the outcome to prove which was better. Here is what I fear. I fear you are a bitter little person who can't respond to a topic in an enlightening or informative way so you look for every opportunity to insult Advisors at a firm where you don't work. Why don't you spend some time sharing your knowledge and experience and back off on the insulting other people.[/quote][quote=ytrewq][quote=LuvIndy]I guess my point would be I sense Jones is selling this to the advisors as the “best in the industry” when many of the advisors don’t know what the rest of the industry is doing.
Also I fear they are selling the optimized management (read better performance), and not providing better, more objective advice to the client. Stuff like this hurts the industry.
Dude until you've lived outside of the cult you are clueless. Sorry for looking out for the clients, oh wait, I guess I'm not at the only firm that looks out for the clients anymore.
[/quote] This is exactly the response I expected from you. An original thought would have been way too much to hope for. Not one sentence of my post was defending Edward Jones. As a matter of fact you will not find one single post I have ever made on this forum that suggests that Jones is "the best of" or the "only of" anything. You will also not find a post were I insulted anyone because of what firm they worked for including being independent. I was stating that you had an interesting point and it was too bad you couldn't discuss it without the insults. Of course you responded by hitting me with the Cult insult. I have no idea what your education, experience, certifications, production, or fee based assets are but I would guess that you are far more clueless than me in just about every one of those categories. Let me guess. I should go drink my Kool Aid?
First, I have been all facts from day one. I only went personal when you started the “it’s so dumb” childish talk.
Back to facts:
Until the late 2000’s (when I left) the culture at Jones has ALWAYS been “If Jones does it, it is the right way, if Jones doesn’t do it, and other firms do, they are either ripping the clients off, or at best have some ulterior motive.” Jones advisors set themselves apart with their clients by essentially saying the above in their introduction to a client, and then reading the two lines from Arthur Levitt’s book that referred to Jones. I used to do the same thing when I was green and trying to create a competitive advantage.
Next, yes I am concerned about a lot of the garbage in the industry, because it hurts us all. When a firm with a large presence (anyone from Jones argues they are dominating the marketplace) that is offering an advisory fee plan that is being sold largely on being a better performing vehicle that does a dis-service to the industry. The point being every Jones person I’ve talked with about A.S. has clearly made a long term commitment to this as part of their business plan, and does not understand how it compares with what their clients’ alternatives might be elsewhere. When I have a conversation with a client about SMAs, managed fund platforms, etc., I can explain to them the difference between those and what they are doing with me, and why I choose to do it the way I’m doing it, but that doesn’t make it RIGHT. It makes it the way I’m doing it.
Wow! This post is so dumb I hardly know where to start. I guess I will start with the first sentence. 1: You "sense" how Jones is selling this to Advisors. There you go using your superpowers again. 2: Jones is selling it as "best in the industry". Should they sell it as "3rd best"? 3: "Many Advisors don't know what the rest of the industry is doing." So Jones Advisors should be required to pass a test on other platforms before they can sell ours? 4: You "fear" they are selling..." Really? You FEAR that? Are you so FEARFUL you won't go out at night or cross the road alone? Give me a break you drama queen. 5: You fear Jones FAs are selling better performance instead of better advice? You can't prove better performance or better advice until the future. You have to know the outcome to prove which was better. Here is what I fear. I fear you are a bitter little person who can't respond to a topic in an enlightening or informative way so you look for every opportunity to insult Advisors at a firm where you don't work. Why don't you spend some time sharing your knowledge and experience and back off on the insulting other people.[/quote] Now that is a professional smackdown. Nice work ytrewq.[quote=LuvIndy]I guess my point would be I sense Jones is selling this to the advisors as the “best in the industry” when many of the advisors don’t know what the rest of the industry is doing.
Also I fear they are selling the optimized management (read better performance), and not providing better, more objective advice to the client. Stuff like this hurts the industry.
Really? If you had any idea how Jones was positioning this program you could speak intelligently about it (or not). And don't tell me your "old Jones friends" tell you. First off, the LAST thing they are doing is positioning it as a performance play. Nowhere do they say "Advisory Solutions is designed to perform better than other investments" (or anything even remotely close to that). In fact, their underlying message is to NOT sell return, but to focus on service, and that the program is only suitable in specific situations for specific clients. They MANDATE client reviews, and strongly encourage them to be done quarterly. Look, I am not saying it's the absolute best program out there. But they have designed the whole thing with the best intentions for clients. Seriously, you have ABSOLUTELY no idea what you are talking about. And this is coming from someone that is probably the most neutral of all the Jones FA's on this site.I guess my point would be I sense Jones is selling this to the advisors as the “best in the industry” when many of the advisors don’t know what the rest of the industry is doing.
Also I fear they are selling the optimized management (read better performance), and not providing better, more objective advice to the client. Stuff like this hurts the industry.
Here is what I've heard people say. "the rebalancing is killer. My clients bought stocks at or near the bottom because of the rebalancing and now they are way up." The flip side to rebalancing is that it can mitigate upside the same way.
Also, a RL told me all of his conversations with the GP's are saying "the rebalancing is what makes it so great." Also you are right that the farther removed you get from Jones the more likely you are to not know how it really is there, anymore. I'll admit that all day long.If the GPs are telling each other that the rebalancing is the best part of the program, then they’re missing the boat. It’s a nice feature that keeps portfolios from getting into the weeds from time to time. I tell my clients that the best part of the program is the research that is done on the funds. I don’t physically have the time to do anywhere near the kind of research that those folks do. I can’t call up the money manager at Neuberger Berman and grill them on their processes. If I can pass that responsibility off to a third party and use that time to focus on other parts of their investment/planning life, then it’s good for the clients and good for me too.
[quote=LuvIndy]
Here is what I've heard people say. "the rebalancing is killer. My clients bought stocks at or near the bottom because of the rebalancing and now they are way up." The flip side to rebalancing is that it can mitigate upside the same way.
Also, a RL told me all of his conversations with the GP's are saying "the rebalancing is what makes it so great." Also you are right that the farther removed you get from Jones the more likely you are to not know how it really is there, anymore. I'll admit that all day long. [/quote] Well you have a sample size of 3 out of 10k. I guess that makes it fact!Ron 14, in my experience with Jones, it often does. I am not trying to stir a pot, but I would stand by that statement. And if I said 3, it’s more than that.
GPs telling the reps what to do is the same as shepards leading the sheep. or that’s how I saw it while I was there and even more so now…
Okay. I don't get this analogy. Don't shepards lead sheep? They don't lead cats or fish now. Do they? If your point was to call all Jones FAs sheep then just say that. It would go something like this, "I spoke to 6 Jones FAs. They are all sheep and a damned shepard is leading them!" Man I could have so much fun with this post. I am trying to tone it down a bit. I'll probably fail.GPs telling the reps what to do is the same as shepards leading the sheep. or that’s how I saw it while I was there and even more so now…
Let’s see, General Partners at a partnership, providing leadership, is
that sort of like managers leading the employees, captains leading the
troops, or a coach leading his players. Gee
I never had a coach lead me under the influence of 8 glasses of scotch a la Ray RaleyLet’s see, General Partners at a partnership, providing leadership, is
that sort of like managers leading the employees, captains leading the
troops, or a coach leading his players. Gee
Seems to me this is just another example of the hyperbole that Jones management (culture) spews. Tell them that A shares are the only way, the least costly for the client if they hold them forever and act as if your firm is the only one who is looking out for the client.
Then the regulators get hold of your non-disclosed kickback scheme, 12b1's are on the radar screen and suddenly you see the light, and lo and behold advisory solutions program is now embraced. Let's face reality, Weddle didn't allow advisory solutions to piss off Bachman or his cohorts. He is a savvy guy who saw the industry changing and when the SEC came down on Jones hard, identifiied risks to the model, and made the changes to become somewhat current in the industry. Props for remaining on the The Best Company to Work For List. After all, that is what matters...I wonder if they test who can vote in the initial interview.In reality, A shares are the most cost effective investing solution if you are going to work with an advisor sold active money manager. Use the right company and they can be even less expensive than most no-load funds. You can put $100K into AIVSX for the next 40 years, pay $3500 upfront and .57% a year. That's pretty cheap.
Advisory was about 5 years after the revenue sharing lawsuit. I don't know that I'd specifically connect the two.Cmon man…
Weddle has the moxie to stand up to the old guard and affect some change (albeit its late in the game) and he realized the risk if they don't diversify. Kudos to him. And the notiion that the GP's didn't see a key source of revenue (pure profit I might add) in serious jeopardy is laughable. Kind of ironic that I am sticking up for the GP'syes the FAs are sheep
The GPs are shepards leading the sheep/FAs to be slaughtered/killed