Edward Jones Performance Exception

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yo paulie's picture
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I was recently let go by Jones for not meeting performance goals. I was with jones for about 3 years. Most of my time i was meeting or exceeding expectations . My Fa development person told me I may be granted an "exception". Well, I was not granted this exception . I was told by FA development that the Jones was being sued by some ex-employee's for granting some FA's exceptions and others not.
 
Any jones people know anything about this? Also, the whole situation of them letting you go is so unprofessional. Basically, I get a call from my FA development person (from Saint Louis) saying today is your last day. No call from human resources explaining the situation or what happens with medical benefits, etc.
 
I was very surprised how jones treated me when I was struggling in a very difficult environment. I have been reading reading registered rep. for some time and always wondered why ex- jones people bashed the company so much. I think I found out why the hard way.

rankstocks's picture
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Joined: 2005-02-10

Should have worked harder.  Let me guess how your typical day went.....Get in around 10am, read periodicals for an hour, take a 2 hour lunch, make a couple calls, shuffle paperwork, pick up dry cleaning, stop at craft store for wife, wonder why you got fired.

BE PATIENT's picture
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Joined: 2009-01-16

Wow, what a mean post. By the way nice picture. I will assume you are single. A guy pours out his heart in a very shitty economy and you tell him he doesnt work hard enough. What an ahole

rankstocks's picture
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Joined: 2005-02-10

Oh, I forgot....Make sure you blame someone else for not working hard enough.  After all, it can't be your own fault, can it?

Squash1's picture
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Joined: 2008-11-19

Yeah but he didn't tell the whole story... Jones puts you on goals first (4 month program, assuming you make the goal each month) so he couldn't do the business.
 
The jones performance levels are really low when considering equivalents at wirehouses.
 
You can't badmouth a company because you couldn't do the work(Rankstocks was mean, but probably wasn't far off)..
 
Most of us make fun of Jones in jest.... Without them I wouldn't have gotten a start to where I am now...

BE PATIENT's picture
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Joined: 2009-01-16

Yes I agree but it just seemed a bit harsh. And if I had that mug I definately wouldnt display it.

yo paulie's picture
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Joined: 2009-01-20

I was not bashing Jones although i was not happy with the way it was handled. Only trying to find out more information on this "performance exception rule". Why do some people get it and others not?
 

Squash1's picture
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Joined: 2008-11-19

Maybe you could explain your situation..
 
1. Were you on goals? If so how long did you make it?
2. If you weren't on goals because they(EDJ) didn't feel that you could make them, then your performance was really really bad and you have no gripe...

monopolybet's picture
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Joined: 2008-10-18

What happens to your license when you get fired from EDJ? Yo paulie so sorry for what happened to you? I may be following you soon.

GoodTimes's picture
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Joined: 2006-05-08

Rankstocks, tell us how you did it. selling mutual funds at 8%?  Crazy markups on Lehman bonds or CMOs? Absorbing clients from failed brokers you wouldn't goodknight?

Squash1's picture
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Joined: 2008-11-19

The same thing that happens if you get fired from anywhere else... You have a certain amount of time to move your licenses to a new firm. After a certain amount of time your licenses expire and you have to redo everything.

Hank Moody's picture
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Joined: 2008-11-10

Swordoftruth wrote:This guy is a cocky prick who deserves to get his head bashed in.

A typical cocky, soft, SOB. I would enjoy slamming his head into a while.

Cocky prick - f#ck you and your self righteous attitude.Ease up. The poor guy just got fired from EDJ.

Spaceman Spiff's picture
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yo paulie wrote:I was recently let go by Jones for not meeting performance goals. I was with jones for about 3 years. Most of my time i was meeting or exceeding expectations . My Fa development person told me I may be granted an "exception". Well, I was not granted this exception . I was told by FA development that the Jones was being sued by some ex-employee's for granting some FA's exceptions and others not.
 
Any jones people know anything about this? Also, the whole situation of them letting you go is so unprofessional. Basically, I get a call from my FA development person (from Saint Louis) saying today is your last day. No call from human resources explaining the situation or what happens with medical benefits, etc.
 
I was very surprised how jones treated me when I was struggling in a very difficult environment. I have been reading reading registered rep. for some time and always wondered why ex- jones people bashed the company so much. I think I found out why the hard way.
 
In order for you to be terminated by Jones for performance issues you have to be put on goals, like someone else said before, and then hit your bogey every month until you get your butt off of goals.  I realize that's a difficult task, but if you were only out 3 years or so, your monthly goal would have been somewhere between $12K and $13K GROSS to be hitting the minimum expectation.  To be put on goals you have to be at 40% of that number, so that would mean that you were producing about $5200 GROSS or less a month.  You had no bonuses, no salary, no extra Jones income coming in, plus they take out money for postage, advertising, etc, so you might have been taking home, being very generous, $1750 before taxes, insurance, et al.  If you had Jones insurance, which is sounds like you did since you were lamenting the fact that HR didn't call you, you were probably paying several hundred dollars a month for it.  You couldn't have been contributing to your 401K.  And you were probably miserable because Jones was hounding you, you felt like a failure, and your spouse wasn't all that thrilled with your profession.  Not to mention the fact that 18 of your 36 months were in a bear market.       
 
In my opinion, Jones did you a favor.  I don't know your circumstances, but surely you can find a way to provide for your family better than you were while at Jones.  Why would you want Jones to make an exception for you. 
 
As much as I hate to admit it here, I've been close to where you were.  Not actually on goals, but I've been way too close for my comfort.  Those are the times that you have to look yourself in the mirror and ask if you really want to be in this biz or not.  I said yes, and got myself back to where I needed to be.  It sucked, it was hard, but I got there quicker than I thought I would.  It's amazing what just a little bit of work will do to your pipeline, your checkbook, and your psyche.  My guess, you got yourself into a spiral that you couldn't pull out of.  Too bad, but that's life.  I'd got back to school and look at a different career choice if I were you.  

buyandhold's picture
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Joined: 2008-09-23

Class post, Spiff. ... Good luck, Paulie. Probably you could have succeeded in a different market environment. Probably you can succeed going forward in a different place if you can figure out some things. Or maybe this is the wrong field. ... Getting mad at Jones won't help. This is a tough business, like most.
 
 

Roadhard's picture
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Joined: 2007-02-23

Spiff--one of your best posts--Paulie...your license is good!  Call LPL and come on over--you probably have just enough assets to come on--Jones will not hound you because they let you go and you have done enough to fulfill your training requirement.
 
Though I am a Indy--you really clear between 55 & 65% after expenses at LPL and other indy's...that is at your stage of assets.  If you could even do 10k a month in production you could still clear about 60 to 70 a year!  That should be enough for you to build your book.   Whatever you should decide to do--don't wait too long.  Good Luck and we know how hard it is to produce in a market like this--don't take Rankstocks to heart!  He has to get his prostate checked! 

Hank Moody's picture
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Roadhard wrote:Spiff--one of your best posts--Paulie...your license is good!  Call LPL and come on over--you probably have just enough assets to come on--Jones will not hound you because they let you go and you have done enough to fulfill your training requirement.
 
Though I am a Indy--you really clear between 55 & 65% after expenses at LPL and other indy's...that is at your stage of assets.  If you could even do 10k a month in production you could still clear about 60 to 70 a year!  That should be enough for you to build your book.   Whatever you should decide to do--don't wait too long.  Good Luck and we know how hard it is to produce in a market like this--don't take Rankstocks to heart!  He has to get his prostate checked!  If he could do 10k/month, he wouldn't be in this predicament.

yo paulie's picture
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Joined: 2009-01-20

Spaceman Spiff wrote:yo paulie wrote:I was recently let go by Jones for not meeting performance goals. I was with jones for about 3 years. Most of my time i was meeting or exceeding expectations . My Fa development person told me I may be granted an "exception". Well, I was not granted this exception . I was told by FA development that the Jones was being sued by some ex-employee's for granting some FA's exceptions and others not.
 
Any jones people know anything about this? Also, the whole situation of them letting you go is so unprofessional. Basically, I get a call from my FA development person (from Saint Louis) saying today is your last day. No call from human resources explaining the situation or what happens with medical benefits, etc.
 
I was very surprised how jones treated me when I was struggling in a very difficult environment. I have been reading reading registered rep. for some time and always wondered why ex- jones people bashed the company so much. I think I found out why the hard way.
 
In order for you to be terminated by Jones for performance issues you have to be put on goals, like someone else said before, and then hit your bogey every month until you get your butt off of goals.  I realize that's a difficult task, but if you were only out 3 years or so, your monthly goal would have been somewhere between $12K and $13K GROSS to be hitting the minimum expectation.  To be put on goals you have to be at 40% of that number, so that would mean that you were producing about $5200 GROSS or less a month.  You had no bonuses, no salary, no extra Jones income coming in, plus they take out money for postage, advertising, etc, so you might have been taking home, being very generous, $1750 before taxes, insurance, et al.  If you had Jones insurance, which is sounds like you did since you were lamenting the fact that HR didn't call you, you were probably paying several hundred dollars a month for it.  You couldn't have been contributing to your 401K.  And you were probably miserable because Jones was hounding you, you felt like a failure, and your spouse wasn't all that thrilled with your profession.  Not to mention the fact that 18 of your 36 months were in a bear market.       
 
In my opinion, Jones did you a favor.  I don't know your circumstances, but surely you can find a way to provide for your family better than you were while at Jones.  Why would you want Jones to make an exception for you. 
 
As much as I hate to admit it here, I've been close to where you were.  Not actually on goals, but I've been way too close for my comfort.  Those are the times that you have to look yourself in the mirror and ask if you really want to be in this biz or not.  I said yes, and got myself back to where I needed to be.  It sucked, it was hard, but I got there quicker than I thought I would.  It's amazing what just a little bit of work will do to your pipeline, your checkbook, and your psyche.  My guess, you got yourself into a spiral that you couldn't pull out of.  Too bad, but that's life.  I'd got back to school and look at a different career choice if I were you.  
 
I agree with some of your comments. I am not mad at Jones, just disappointed in the process. Financially I was prepared for this job. Everybody says it takes a good 3- 5 years to get established in this business. I did good my first 2 years maintaining meet and exceed expectations.
 
It really came down to that 4 month rolling average during the 4th quarter of 2008. Unfortunately I had several good months replaced with bad months at the end of 2008. I think we all remember October. I also was not well informed on what that 40% of standard number really meant (part my fault but wished it was explained before I hit that percentage). Trying to hit that bogey every month in a market thats tanking, makes the task a bit more difficult.
 
The performance exception that I am talking about is not something new. Weddle even had it posted in one of his weekly comments. I still want to know why some people get the exception and others do not?
 
I still have a problem on how it makes business sense to get rid of a segment 2 or 3 FA, who had good past performance only to be replaced by a brand new person straight out of training. They (STL) are only looking at your current rolling 4 months (during the worst market in a very long time).
 
Anyway, I am done talking about this- time to move on to better things.

Indyone's picture
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I seriously doubt if LPL would take him at those levels.  More and more, it is apparent that they are not really interested in small producers and I was told their target minimum was $30 million in assets and at least five years experience when I jumped, although they admitted some flexibility beyond that if an advisor showed good potential.  Personally, I don't want advisors that couldn't cut it at Jones as I already pay enough for my E&O insurance.

indythankgod's picture
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I would call your local LPL branch and get a feel for what your options are. Remember you are a fully trained licensed broker that knows how to sell. Don't let anyone tell you your career is over. Its actually up to you. We all have slumps we go through. Good Luck

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I would agree that it doesn't make sense at all.  It isn't going to cost Jones a penny more to keep you in that office than it does right now.  I think you just got caught in the wrong place at the wrong time.  You might also be the victim of a prick of an area partner.  Some of them will work with you, some won't.  Ultimately they're the ones who get to cut the strings on your Jones life.  Fortunately for me, mine called me when I hit 50%. 

 
I don't know about the exception to the rules.  As far as I know once you hit goals, you either put up the numbers or get canned.  No questions asked.  At least that's the way it has worked in my region. 

Squash1's picture
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It makes perfect sense if you combine it with the xfer bonuses from your other post... They are replacing "maybe" producers, with "proven" producers at a level 2-3x that of a normal seg 2-3.
 
 
The exception is with whether your RL vouches for you, prospects in system, and how well you are liked in the region..

ytrewq's picture
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It even makes perfect sense if you exchange a "Not" producer with a "Maybe" producer.  No offense to paulie but 40% of what everyone already agrees are very low industry standards to begin with?  It is also a rolling 4 month average, not a rolling 4 day average.  It may be "tough" but it did not sneek up at night while you were sleeping.  It took a third of a year to hit 40%.  Plus Spiff don't we have to pay a "minimum" wage now not to mention all the variable costs?  No matter how you do the math paulie costs more than $0.

rankstocks's picture
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Maybe you might recognize my photo.  It's the CEO of Raymond James.

noggin's picture
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rankstocks wrote:Should have worked harder.  Let me guess how your typical day went.....Get in around 10am, read periodicals for an hour, take a 2 hour lunch, make a couple calls, shuffle paperwork, pick up dry cleaning, stop at craft store for wife, wonder why you got fired.
What a wiseacre.. You know nothing of the situation yet you feel compelled to slam the person who asked a reasonable question. You are truly a mentor!!!

maddog's picture
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It is a tough situation.  But, we have to be honest with ourselves as well.  Sometimes it just isn't going to work.  In regard to replacement with a eval/grad - no different that substituting in the back-up quarterback - same team (clients) maybe different attitude and fresh legs (for doorknocking.)
 
If you are meant to be in this industry - you will succeed.  I know some big producers that were released from their first companies.

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They did you a favor, bud... I would agree with calling an LPL recruiter to see if that is an option... I left EDJ on my own Seg 3 after 3 years and have had a much easier time now that I am not selling commissions.  I just netted more than my best gross year every at EDJ in my second year of indy... it is a different world over here...

IndyEDJ's picture
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Yo Paulie:
 
There is some silver lining involved in being fired.  You can talk to another firm without paying back your training costs.  Check out the independents and banks to see if you can become a Junior Broker.
 
I am sad to say that this is going to be more common in this industry as I have had many conversations with brokers who are going to be looking for work in 2009 and they are doing 300 grand a year.  All I can say it thank God I am self employed and working for a good firm.
 
IndyEDJ

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iceco1d wrote:Who's this James fellow you speak of?!?!?!
 
Jessie James
 
 

buyandhold's picture
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IndyEDJ wrote:Yo Paulie:
 
There is some silver lining involved in being fired.  You can talk to another firm without paying back your training costs.  Check out the independents and banks to see if you can become a Junior Broker.
 
IndyEDJ
 
Junior broker? What is that and how do you find one of those seats?
 
 

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Spaceman Spiff wrote:In order for you to be terminated by Jones for performance issues you have to be put on goals, like someone else said before, and then hit your bogey every month until you get your butt off of goals.  I realize that's a difficult task, but if you were only out 3 years or so, your monthly goal would have been somewhere between $12K and $13K GROSS to be hitting the minimum expectation.  To be put on goals you have to be at 40% of that number, so that would mean that you were producing about $5200 GROSS or less a month. 

 
I am presently considering an offer from Jones so naturally this conversation is of interest to me.  Will you indulge me a few questions, please?
 
Is gross production 1% of new assets brought in that month?  Does that $12k figure include fees generated by AUM from prior clients as well?
 
Can anyone explain what the 'goals' are?  Number of new contacts, etc?  Goals and production aren't the same thing?  What is a bogey, in this sense?
 
Yo, Paulie, my sympathy.  I hear its pretty brutal out there right now.  I'm presently contemplating trying it myself, so your tale makes me nervous.

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Spaceman Spiff wrote:I You might also be the victim of a prick of an area partner.  Some of them will work with you, some won't.  Ultimately they're the ones who get to cut the strings on your Jones life.  Fortunately for me, mine called me when I hit 50%. 
 

See, these are the things they don't explain to you in the interview process.  So an area partner decides if struggling guys get the boot or not?  Do they pick up Paulie's clients when he leaves?
 
Can you explain what you meant by that 50% statement?
 
My apologies, I'm on the outside looking in, some of the shop talk goes right over my head.

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Potential wrote:Spaceman Spiff wrote:In order for you to be terminated by Jones for performance issues you have to be put on goals, like someone else said before, and then hit your bogey every month until you get your butt off of goals.  I realize that's a difficult task, but if you were only out 3 years or so, your monthly goal would have been somewhere between $12K and $13K GROSS to be hitting the minimum expectation.  To be put on goals you have to be at 40% of that number, so that would mean that you were producing about $5200 GROSS or less a month. 

 
I am presently considering an offer from Jones so naturally this conversation is of interest to me.  Will you indulge me a few questions, please? Sure.
 
Is gross production 1% of new assets brought in that month? Bringing in new assets doesn't mean squat. You've gotta sell them something.  Does that $12k figure include fees generated by AUM from prior clients as well? Yes.
 
Can anyone explain what the 'goals' are?  Number of new contacts, etc? That's part of it.  Goals and production aren't the same thing? All that really matters is whether you're selling and generating commissions, aka, hitting your goals.  What is a bogey, in this sense? Your goals.
 
Yo, Paulie, my sympathy.  I hear its pretty brutal out there right now.  I'm presently contemplating trying it myself, so your tale makes me nervous.

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Potential wrote:Spaceman Spiff wrote:I You might also be the victim of a prick of an area partner.  Some of them will work with you, some won't.  Ultimately they're the ones who get to cut the strings on your Jones life.  Fortunately for me, mine called me when I hit 50%. 
 

See, these are the things they don't explain to you in the interview process.  So an area partner decides if struggling guys get the boot or not?  Apparently so. Do they pick up Paulie's clients when he leaves? They'll usually promise them to the next guy who takes over the office, but many of them will leave or be poached by the other Jones guys in town.
 
Can you explain what you meant by that 50% statement? He was only hitting 50% of his monthly production goal and was about to get his walking papers. 
 
My apologies, I'm on the outside looking in, some of the shop talk goes right over my head.

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Thing is if you're getting in right now, it may be interesting for the first couple of years, but you've missed the big downturn (he says while crossing fingers and knocking on wooden desk).  I hit the field in Oct 02.  My clients didn't know they could lose money for almost 5 years. 
 
To explain the shop talk is difficult, but I'll give it a shot.  Jones expects you to generate a certain number of dollars each month in commissions.  When you start, it's pretty small.  The farther along you get the bigger the number becomes.  Any commissions you make count towards those goals.  New clients, existing clients, doesn't matter.  Jones tracks it two ways.  First on a monthly basis, then on a 4 month rolling average.  It's that 4 month rolling average that they pay attention to the most.  My 4 month rolling average right now includes what commissions I generated in Sept, Oct, Nov, and Dec.  When I finish up Jan next week, Sept will fall off (thankfully) and my little dot on my performance chart will move up. 
 
What happened with Paulie is that he kept his 4 month rolling average above the level Jones said he needed to for a long time.  But then for some reason it fell to at least 40% below where they said it needed to be.  So while Jones was saying he needed to be making $12K or $13K gross a month, he was making like $5000.  Once you get to that point Jones puts you on what they call "goals".  It's a nice term for your production sucks and it needs to get up to where we say right now or you're fired.  Well, for Paulie he didn't get it back on track in time and they fired him. 
 
Area partners are General Partners who work in the home office.  They, along with the Regional Leader, have the job of being the hatchet man.  I wasn't aware that they were making exceptions these days for people.  I always thought goals were pretty much cut and dried.  Either you hit them or you didn't. 
 
Finally, what I meant by the 50% statement was when my 4 month rolling average got to 50% of what Jones expected, I got a call from my Area Leader to tell me if I didn't pick it up I was in danger of going on goals. 
 
It is a bunch of shop talk.  Don't worry too much about it right now.  One good round of drinks after you've passed the S7 is enough to explain in fully to you.

ultimateJonesClone's picture
Joined: 2009-01-22

Message to Yo Paulie:

Don't be passive. If you think you can switch firms and fight for your clients - do it.

If you're leaving the industry and have a friend at a different firm - make an arrangement
for the names of your clients, an endorsement from you, and negotiate so you get something
for your book besides a handshake. That transfer broker coming in don't give a Rats but about
your client. He just wants to churn the book a bit for a paycheck.

Jones is a great firm. These days though there is so much nepotism and favoritism going on
that all that talk about the old days and how the old timers did it really doesn't mean anything.
It's meaningless chatter.

If this market has another down 20 some of these old timers that feel so smug right now may be
joining you - and perhaps tasting financial fear for themselves for the first time in a long time.

What the old timers won't tell you is that they are all secretly happy that they didn't hit a down 38% in
their third or fourth year of the business. From 1980 to 1999 was a unique period of time and a rather
rosy one to be a stock broker. Also, I'm tired of hearing about the crash of 1987. I don't want to hear about it any more because it was a speed bump compared to this.

FA17's picture
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Paulie, I served as a RL/GP for several years and will tell you that the decision to make the exception, or not, was primarily mine. Your RL would have had a conversation with those in the region who spent the most time with you. Your production would not have been the only consideration. New accounts, new prospects (verified by those entered into the system), daily activities, etc. were all reviewed. It is not difficult to tell who is doing the right activities and who is not. The final conversation is between the RL and area leader, that is when the decision is made. The reason an exception would not have been made for you in my region is because the consensus was that you would continue to struggle, which does neither you or the company any good. This may not bring you peace with the decision, but it explains why it was made. Best wishes!

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you are an absolute jackass!  The man is working his butt off trying to establish himself in this industry and you have to question his work ethic.  It's morons like you that continue to give this profession a black eye

monopolybet's picture
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Joined: 2008-10-18

If your business is only transactional, like all newer jones fa are, then you are not being paid for calling all your clients over and over and over again. To tell them the buy and hold is the only way to go!  Is there any other way?

Soothsayer's picture
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Spaceman Spiff wrote: 
...... my little dot on my performance chart will move up. 
 
 
And there is the essence of Jones in one little phrase.  After more than 6 years at the company, Spiff, you're nothing more than a little performance dot on your RL's and AL's screen.  They couldn't give a shit about you, your kids, your family, your situaton, or the fact that we're in the midst of the most difficult market condtions in 75 years.  Pathetic.

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harris9 wrote:you are an absolute jackass!  The man is working his butt off trying to establish himself in this industry and you have to question his work ethic.  It's morons like you that continue to give this profession a black eyeHey noob-He didn't question the guy's work ethic.  He simply described the process Jones followed in making these decisions.  Sounds like a fair process to me, actually.This is a business where 'trying hard' does not matter, only the final result.  Ink on paper.It sucks when you end up on the short end of the stick whether by bad luck or bad work habits...but that's how it is.

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Soothsayer wrote:Spaceman Spiff wrote: 
...... my little dot on my performance chart will move up. 
 
 
And there is the essence of Jones in one little phrase.  After more than 6 years at the company, Spiff, you're nothing more than a little performance dot on your RL's and AL's screen.  They couldn't give a shit about you, your kids, your family, your situaton, or the fact that we're in the midst of the most difficult market condtions in 75 years.  Pathetic.

Wow, I've been looking for the essence of Jones for 12 years now.  I'm so glad that you pointed it out to me. 
 
I hate to break it to you, but in this business, whether at Jones or not, the only one who really cares about you, is you.  I don't expect Jones to come running to my rescue if I decide to stop working.  I don't expect my RL to call me and ask me how my family is doing.  Now, he happens to do just that from time to time.  In fact my wife and his wife have become great friends.  But at the end of the day, my family and our friendship doesn't get in the way of a business decision.  It's simply that.  A business decision.  Jones is not a not-for-profit organization. 
 
So, am I to infer from your post that if I were to leave Jones and go indy that suddenly LPL would give a rip about my family or my situation?  I'm going to guess no.  They have pretty much nothing on the line for you or your office.  You could close up shop today and they'd never miss a beat.  They wouldn't care.  Neither would any of the other indy FAs in your area.  Except they'd be circling like vultures at your front door wondering if they could build their book the old fashioned way - by buying it from you. 
 
I think it's funny that you take a phrase completely out of context and put so much meaning into it.  It's also a little pathetic that so many of you continue to harp on the same old song and dance with the I hate Jones crap.  Did you ever notice it's a one way street?  None of the Jones guys talk about how stupid you are for going indy, or for going from one firm to another.  It's always you ex-EDJ guys who still, after many, many years, harbor this resentment towards Jones.  Again, pathetic. 

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Joined: 2006-08-08

harris9 wrote:you are an absolute jackass!  The man is working his butt off trying to establish himself in this industry and you have to question his work ethic.  It's morons like you that continue to give this profession a black eye

 
I hate to be the guy who says you're an idiot...wait, looks like HymanRoth already did...anyway, you don't get from exceeding expectations with Jones to going on goals to getting fired while you are working your butt off.  I've never seen anyone who was truly working his butt off at Jones fail like that.  It's darn near impossible.  The Jones goals are so incredibly low that if you can't hit them, you should seriously consider looking for employment elsewhere. 
 
And actually, I'll bet that if you took a poll in whatever town FA17 is in, you'll find it is exactly guys like him that keep investors from thinking that everyone in this biz is a crook.  You don't get to be an RL, much less a GP, without some merit.  And towns don't accept idiots and help them not just survive, but thrive.  Well, evidently there are some out there given some of the comments we see here. 

Squash1's picture
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Joined: 2008-11-19

Soothsayer wrote:Spaceman Spiff wrote: 
...... my little dot on my performance chart will move up. 
 
 
And there is the essence of Jones in one little phrase.  After more than 6 years at the company, Spiff, you're nothing more than a little performance dot on your RL's and AL's screen.  They couldn't give a shit about you, your kids, your family, your situaton, or the fact that we're in the midst of the most difficult market condtions in 75 years.  Pathetic.
 
I hated that dot...because it was skewed.. someone does 30K in a month and never does anything again, there average is still $7500.. meanwhile, if you do 4K,5K,6K,7K, you look like a schmuck, but your business is actually doing better because you are consistent...
 
I had a fried call me after I left, before they put him on goals this month, and asked me "So how did you finish the month?"... I couldn't answer... At my b/d we get paid weekly, so months don't matter to me anymore(no more ignorant deadlines to get money in by so I get paid this month instead of next.. I miss this week, then I get paid next week)..
 
He asked me what my 4 month trailing was, and of course no one else tracks that, I had to go back and look and do some math on my statements... Of course I know how much assets I have added, what my production is ytd vs last year, and how many referrals I have gotten... The only real number I care about.

Spaceman Spiff's picture
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Joined: 2006-08-08

monopolybet wrote:If your business is only transactional, like all newer jones fa are, then you are not being paid for calling all your clients over and over and over again. To tell them the buy and hold is the only way to go!  Is there any other way?
 
Yes - Advisory Solutions
        Managed Assets Program
        EDJ Trust Company
        C shares
        Insurance
        Long Term Care
        EDJ Mortgage Company
        Medigap Insurance
        
I'm sure I missed some that aren't transactional business, but there are plenty of ways that a Jones person can do business that isn't transactional.
 
A new Jones FA really has one job.  Bring in new assets.  They just simply don't have enough clients that need to be called every month to keep themselves busy.  Even if they brought in 5 new households every month at the end of the year they'd only have 60 households.  That's about 2.5 days of work to call and touch base with all of those people.  That leaves 20+ days to go out and find new people.  That's a minimum of 500 other conversations that they'll have every single month.  Now, if you can't hit the Jones goals (which haven't substantially changed in like 25 years) during your first few years making 560 contacts, then you're doing something wrong.  And if you can't figure that out, Jones will have to tell you to leave. 

Spaceman Spiff's picture
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Joined: 2006-08-08

Squash1 wrote:Soothsayer wrote:Spaceman Spiff wrote: 
...... my little dot on my performance chart will move up. 
 
 
And there is the essence of Jones in one little phrase.  After more than 6 years at the company, Spiff, you're nothing more than a little performance dot on your RL's and AL's screen.  They couldn't give a shit about you, your kids, your family, your situaton, or the fact that we're in the midst of the most difficult market condtions in 75 years.  Pathetic.
 
I hated that dot...because it was skewed.. someone does 30K in a month and never does anything again, there average is still $7500.. meanwhile, if you do 4K,5K,6K,7K, you look like a schmuck, but your business is actually doing better because you are consistent...
 
I had a fried call me after I left, before they put him on goals this month, and asked me "So how did you finish the month?"... I couldn't answer... At my b/d we get paid weekly, so months don't matter to me anymore(no more ignorant deadlines to get money in by so I get paid this month instead of next.. I miss this week, then I get paid next week)..
 
He asked me what my 4 month trailing was, and of course no one else tracks that, I had to go back and look and do some math on my statements... Of course I know how much assets I have added, what my production is ytd vs last year, and how many referrals I have gotten... The only real number I care about.
 
But when that $30K month fall off he'll go screaming into the red and you'll keep yours rolling.  If we continue your thought just one month farther and assume you both gross $10K your 4 month rolling would now be $7K, but his, because his big month fell off, would only be $2500.  Now, your RL is singing your praises at the next meeting for being consistent and doing something right, while the other guy is getting a call from his mentor, the RL, and maybe even his area leader to ask if they need to look to backfill his office.  Your comments are the specific reason Jones tracks a 4 month rolling average. 

jkl1v1n6's picture
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Joined: 2008-10-06

Spiff,
Don't get too defensive, you're a level headed guy. 
 
I believe that the reason it is a one way street for bashing is because current Jones FA's don't have anything else to compare it to.  It's quite possibly the only place they've worked in the industry.  Those of us that have left have seen what's on the outside.  Not better or worse, there is just the ability to have more perspective on the industry.  Many people are bitter when they leave Jones, who knows why.  Maybe they were told to just follow the recipe and you can't fail, maybe many of them did until they just couldn't anymore and that's when they failed and then in their minds they were lied to.  Who know's.  It doesn't matter.  Besides my bet is that many of them would not be where they are today without the experience of working at Jones.  I've said it before and I'll say it again, Jones is a very good place to get your start in this industry.  If you want to stay, stay, if you want to move on, move on, that's everyone's individual decision.   
 
It's Friday people lighten up.  Go turn on your favorite Bob Marley song and relax!
 

Squash1's picture
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Joined: 2008-11-19

Spaceman Spiff wrote:Squash1 wrote:Soothsayer wrote:Spaceman Spiff wrote: 
...... my little dot on my performance chart will move up. 
 
 
And there is the essence of Jones in one little phrase.  After more than 6 years at the company, Spiff, you're nothing more than a little performance dot on your RL's and AL's screen.  They couldn't give a shit about you, your kids, your family, your situaton, or the fact that we're in the midst of the most difficult market condtions in 75 years.  Pathetic.
 
I hated that dot...because it was skewed.. someone does 30K in a month and never does anything again, there average is still $7500.. meanwhile, if you do 4K,5K,6K,7K, you look like a schmuck, but your business is actually doing better because you are consistent...
 
I had a fried call me after I left, before they put him on goals this month, and asked me "So how did you finish the month?"... I couldn't answer... At my b/d we get paid weekly, so months don't matter to me anymore(no more ignorant deadlines to get money in by so I get paid this month instead of next.. I miss this week, then I get paid next week)..
 
He asked me what my 4 month trailing was, and of course no one else tracks that, I had to go back and look and do some math on my statements... Of course I know how much assets I have added, what my production is ytd vs last year, and how many referrals I have gotten... The only real number I care about.
 
But when that $30K month fall off he'll go screaming into the red and you'll keep yours rolling.  If we continue your thought just one month farther and assume you both gross $10K your 4 month rolling would now be $7K, but his, because his big month fell off, would only be $2500.  Now, your RL is singing your praises at the next meeting for being consistent and doing something right, while the other guy is getting a call from his mentor, the RL, and maybe even his area leader to ask if they need to look to backfill his office.  Your comments are the specific reason Jones tracks a 4 month rolling average. 
 
Yeah that is what I hated... RLs/Home office are fair weather fans... One moment you are the best broker ever, a new standard for newbies, the next you are crap...Or you start out as average(an still get called crap) and all of a sudden 3 years later, the "superstars" are gone and you are all that is left, then you get praised... it's BS..
 
My last Jones summer regional they had 4-7 guys stand up who had been out just as long as I had and said "this is the new leaders in Region blah blah" "they are the example" "the do it the Jones way"(they didn't, but really who does)... Now the they are all on goals, 3 are about to miss those goals, and soon the rest will be gone....What jones doesn't understand is that some people get lucky(yeah you can call it something else, but at the end of the day, someone walked in, someone called in, someone inherited money) and they skyrocket and everyone loves them, the problem is they did nothing to create that, but sit in a chair... Those people end up going bye bye in year 3-6.

jkl1v1n6's picture
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Joined: 2008-10-06

I remember felling truly sorry at the summer regional awards banquet for the guys that didn't get anything.  They had to sit there with their wives at their sides while everyone else was given something.  It's one thing when it's just the brokers but when you throw in the wives it's just ugly. 

Ready2Jump's picture
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Joined: 2006-05-30

jkl1v1n6 wrote:
Spiff,
Don't get too defensive, you're a level headed guy. 
 
I believe that the reason it is a one way street for bashing is because current Jones FA's don't have anything else to compare it to.  It's quite possibly the only place they've worked in the industry.  Those of us that have left have seen what's on the outside.  Not better or worse, there is just the ability to have more perspective on the industry.  Many people are bitter when they leave Jones, who knows why.  Maybe they were told to just follow the recipe and you can't fail, maybe many of them did until they just couldn't anymore and that's when they failed and then in their minds they were lied to.  Who know's.  It doesn't matter.  Besides my bet is that many of them would not be where they are today without the experience of working at Jones.  I've said it before and I'll say it again, Jones is a very good place to get your start in this industry.  If you want to stay, stay, if you want to move on, move on, that's everyone's individual decision.   
 
It's Friday people lighten up.  Go turn on your favorite Bob Marley song and relax!
 
 
You nailed what I think is the issue... EDJ is feast or famine.  If you outstay all the others, take over their clients when they leave, and work hard you can survive there.  It IS a good company to start in the business with. 
But what it comes down to for me is what was best for my clients.  And now that I made the jump from EDJ to indy I can see that I DID have at least some wool pulled over my eyes.  I was successful at EDJ... my clients are more successful with the indy model.  The flexibility in choices alone makes it better for them (in my opinion).
I will put my advisory account performance up against a stagnant American Jones Funds portfolio any day.  Actually, I do, every day, and my clients win because of it... they want to pay me to work for them, not pay me to go "bring in new assets". 
 

Ready2Jump's picture
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Joined: 2006-05-30

jkl1v1n6 wrote:I remember felling truly sorry at the summer regional awards banquet for the guys that didn't get anything.  They had to sit there with their wives at their sides while everyone else was given something.  It's one thing when it's just the brokers but when you throw in the wives it's just ugly. 
 
Yeah, I got four awards at my first regional... meanwhile, the guy sitting next to me got none and it was awkward... His wife looked confused... my kids LOVED the shovel though... they used it in their sandbox for two months before it got lost.

jkl1v1n6's picture
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Joined: 2008-10-06

Ready2Jump wrote:jkl1v1n6 wrote:I remember felling truly sorry at the summer regional awards banquet for the guys that didn't get anything.  They had to sit there with their wives at their sides while everyone else was given something.  It's one thing when it's just the brokers but when you throw in the wives it's just ugly. 
 
Yeah, I got four awards at my first regional... meanwhile, the guy sitting next to me got none and it was awkward... His wife looked confused... my kids LOVED the shovel though... they used it in their sandbox for two months before it got lost.
 

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