Edward Jones Performance Exception

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MoneyNeverSleeps's picture
Joined: 2009-01-29

Yo Paulie, you're not alone. Don't listen to these sycophantic, Kool-Aid drinking lemmings. They all work so damn hard. Bet they door-knocked their knuckles raw. Please. I had years of industry experience and a proven track record of production when I decided to make the courageous leap to Jones from a well known financial institution (they chased me for two months before I finally relented. The prospect of 'owning my own business' is what did me in). Raised just under $2 million from my bedroom in less than 4-months and was about 150% of standard in month 5 exceeding expectations when my RL threatened to fire me on the grounds that I was in violation of one of Sacred Tenets of Jones: The hallowed "3 Ps" - the participation "p" to be exact. Was not aware of the fact that the dialing-for-dollars workshops were absolutely mandatory since many regions don't engage in them. Especially for a seasoned vet who not only made 300 dials a day for 4 yrs. back in the '80's working for a large wirehouse, but also having conducted professional telephone workshops as a t & d consultant for my former employer. Oh well. Unbeknownst to me, my absence frosted the RL's nuts. He called me and proceeded to run the gamut of insults, screaming that I was a failure, lacked judgment; was lazy, disorganized and that I disrespected him and the region. He punctuated the call by screaming that he had no confidence in my ability and then issued this ultimatum: I had one last chance to redeem myself or I'd be sorry. I was number 1 in my segment at the time of the call. Well, needless to say, my spirit was crushed and I felt demoralized. Thought I was doing everything right. My next meeting, the monthly mundane Saturday Morning sleeper for new FAs, was less than a week away. I had never missed a one. The day arrived and I was up at 4AM and out the door by 6 to anxiously drive over two hours to the meeting location (have these idiots ever heard of GoToMeeting?). I knew I was about to be confronted by the RL when I arrived and was stressed over this. The weather was treacherous - snow and wind and ice - yet the meeting was not called off. Ten miles shy of my final destination, my brand new car hit a patch of ice and went careening out of control. $6,000 worth of damage to my vehicle and sustained injuries to my back and neck pretty much dealt me the final blow. My production suffered as a result. I was restricted from travel and, under a physician's orders, placed on disability. My percent of standard fell from 150 to 69 to 38. My RL made good on his threat. He contacted my DL, who was apprised of my condition and aware of my physical limitations. He knew how challenging it would be to reach the performance goal from the confines of my back brace, and placed me on the 4-month termination plan. Three weeks after my performance plan was put into effect, I received a call from my DL stating that he and the RL would soon be consider making an 'employment decision'. The following morning, I attempted to initiate a $25k sell order for a client but was unable to do. I was denied access. Twenty mins later, I received a call from my DL. He was not sympathetic. I was terminated this morning. I contacted HR and they would not give me the time of day. The region is literally imploding under broken leadership. The RL fiddles while Rome burns. Go in peace and ask for the order. ,

monopolybet's picture
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Joined: 2008-10-18

The EDJ model is so very, very behind the times. There is only two groups that have any value to this company.  The most important group in the almighty seg 4/5 broker.  The second most important group is the new fa's. That is the mantra, growth, growth growth. Not growth in experience, but new fa's. Don't worry your replacementS have already been hired. It is a hiring machine.....Rock stars are everwhere waiting to door knock.... One thing you said I do believe is true. They do yell at the other FA's is amazes me how old fashion they are, It makes me wonder where HR is at any time? Best of luck to you.........gotta love them, they really do care about one thing............themselves. They are not afraid to tell you they do not get paid to help you. You are right the home office has NO idea what is really going on in the region.

Squash1's picture
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Joined: 2008-11-19

MoneyNeverSleeps wrote:Yo Paulie, you're not alone. Don't listen to these sycophantic, Kool-Aid drinking lemmings. They all work so damn hard. Bet they door-knocked their knuckles raw. Please. I had years of industry experience and a proven track record of production when I decided to make the courageous leap to Jones from a well known financial institution (they chased me for two months before I finally relented. The prospect of 'owning my own business' is what did me in). Raised just under $2 million from my bedroom in less than 4-months and was about 150% of standard in month 5 exceeding expectations when my RL threatened to fire me on the grounds that I was in violation of one of Sacred Tenets of Jones: The hallowed "3 Ps" - the participation "p" to be exact. Was not aware of the fact that the dialing-for-dollars workshops were absolutely mandatory since many regions don't engage in them. Especially for a seasoned vet who not only made 300 dials a day for 4 yrs. back in the '80's working for a large wirehouse, but also having conducted professional telephone workshops as a t & d consultant for my former employer. Oh well. Unbeknownst to me, my absence frosted the RL's nuts. He called me and proceeded to run the gamut of insults, screaming that I was a failure, lacked judgment; was lazy, disorganized and that I disrespected him and the region. He punctuated the call by screaming that he had no confidence in my ability and then issued this ultimatum: I had one last chance to redeem myself or I'd be sorry. I was number 1 in my segment at the time of the call. Well, needless to say, my spirit was crushed and I felt demoralized. Thought I was doing everything right. My next meeting, the monthly mundane Saturday Morning sleeper for new FAs, was less than a week away. I had never missed a one. The day arrived and I was up at 4AM and out the door by 6 to anxiously drive over two hours to the meeting location (have these idiots ever heard of GoToMeeting?). I knew I was about to be confronted by the RL when I arrived and was stressed over this. The weather was treacherous - snow and wind and ice - yet the meeting was not called off. Ten miles shy of my final destination, my brand new car hit a patch of ice and went careening out of control. $6,000 worth of damage to my vehicle and sustained injuries to my back and neck pretty much dealt me the final blow. My production suffered as a result. I was restricted from travel and, under a physician's orders, placed on disability. My percent of standard fell from 150 to 69 to 38. My RL made good on his threat. He contacted my DL, who was apprised of my condition and aware of my physical limitations. He knew how challenging it would be to reach the performance goal from the confines of my back brace, and placed me on the 4-month termination plan. Three weeks after my performance plan was put into effect, I received a call from my DL stating that he and the RL would soon be consider making an 'employment decision'. The following morning, I attempted to initiate a $25k sell order for a client but was unable to do. I was denied access. Twenty mins later, I received a call from my DL. He was not sympathetic. I was terminated this morning. I contacted HR and they would not give me the time of day. The region is literally imploding under broken leadership. The RL fiddles while Rome burns. Go in peace and ask for the order. ,
 
Yep... Going to have to call BS on this one.. RLs don't care about anything except production, I didn't have to go to segment meetings because I was way about standard("I have a client coming in" "Ok maybe next time")
 
If you were so productive why would limiting your travel affect anything... You said you could dial and didn't need the help..
 
 

Soothsayer's picture
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Joined: 2005-02-24

Fud Box wrote:Soothsayer wrote:If they are let go then the non-compete does not apply.  Just what B24 said, Jones can't have it every which way.
I had my lawyer look over this agreement prior to accepting the position. There is  a standard non-solicit...you'll find this in several industries. Basically, "don't try to get any of your old clients to leave by any means whatsoever".
 
The second is the reimbursement of training costs. It doesn't specify whether you quit or get fired, it just says that your employment is terminated. I checked with EJ's legal department to get clarification b/c I thought it didn't apply if you got fired. Not the case. No matter whether termination was voluntary or involuntary, the statement applies. This was done on purpose to prevent people from abusing the system by "trying to get fired".
 
The cost of training decreases every full quarter following your 13'th month of employment, so if you only have one year left of the 3 year agreement, then the liability is for less than $75K.
 
Take particular note that neither agreement is a "non-compete". However, the second agreement does effectively create a non-compete based on the fact that $75K is a lot of money to most of us, and would make remaining in the industry cost prohibitive barring other circumstances.
 
That's what I meant when I said it was air tight. Legally, it's perfectly air tight and actionable if they so chose. Real experiences may be a different story.
 
Personally, I didn't apply for this job intending to quit, and I figured that if I got fired in under three years then this line of work probably wasn't for me.
 
There's an EDJ contract, and then there are the various 50 states with 50 different sets of labor laws.  Every state is different.  Some have voluminous labor law, others might be described as scant.  In any event, let me tell you what water the EDJ contract will hold in court (should it ever come to that; and, trust me, it won't!) if they choose to terminate your employment for poor production, not following the "recipe", or whatever else they can come drum up on you.  Are you ready?  Here it is:
 
 
(crickets chirping in background)

MoneyNeverSleeps's picture
Joined: 2009-01-29

C'mon Squash - have you forgotten the Jones recipe for success? Maybe what you need is a refresher course! 25 face-to-face contacts per day, 125 per week. Every dollar I have under management was achieved via a handshake. The phone gigs are billed as a 'skill building exercise' for those FAs who suffer from call reluctance or are underperforming. Regardless, to be insulted and threatened by you leader is just plain wrong. Nice try though.

6160's picture
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Joined: 2008-12-02

MoneyNeverSleeps wrote:Yo Paulie, you're not alone.... ....Go in peace and ask for the order. ,Maybe they let you go because you couldn't find the Enter button on your keyboard?

MoneyNeverSleeps's picture
Joined: 2009-01-29

I should have pressed the Escape key long ago.

monopolybet's picture
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Joined: 2008-10-18

Looks like many are going to be given the your career is over phone call. The little dots are dropping and the line is still climbing on the FA performance screen. The region is seeking to move out those who don't drink the koolaide and replace them with the HUGE influx of ML/SB brokers who are waiting to get a EDJ office. They feel the NEW and IMPROVED transfer broker plan is having them flying to be a koolaide drinker. Replacing little dots with brokers who have assests is probably a faster track to profitability then door knocking. How many ML/SB are dying to move the EDJ? Do you know any?

MoneyNeverSleeps's picture
Joined: 2009-01-29

I don't know of a single ML/SB rep, and I know quite a few..perhaps only the desperate. Jones will hire just about any one with a pulse . I don't think that a 40% payout or a 6 mutual fund company restriction will appeal to the ML/SB crowd, especially when they can take their big books to one of the many indy firms for a 80%-90% payout along with hundreds of investment options for their clients...Run away as fast as you can.

monopolybet's picture
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Joined: 2008-10-18

This news of waves on new transfer brokers is coming from  the inner circle. in our region.   In over 3 years I  have seen way more broker transfer out then have ever transferred in. 

ytrewq's picture
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Joined: 2008-08-02

Are you two talking to each other?  You should just PM each other...or maybe become friends on Facebook or Myspace or whatever that crap is you children do these days.

Squash1's picture
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Joined: 2008-11-19

MoneyNeverSleeps wrote:C'mon Squash - have you forgotten the Jones recipe for success? Maybe what you need is a refresher course! 25 face-to-face contacts per day, 125 per week. Every dollar I have under management was achieved via a handshake. The phone gigs are billed as a 'skill building exercise' for those FAs who suffer from call reluctance or are underperforming. Regardless, to be insulted and threatened by you leader is just plain wrong. Nice try though.
 
That maybe the corporate recipe, but the "real" recipe is make sure you are exceeding expectations.. Come on it's not hard... Working at a wirehouse is 10x tougher. I have a friend at MS who has to bring in $7M in his first year to just be at average goals... There were people at Jones who didn't have $7M by the end of year 2 and still didn't get canned..
 
Yes Jones is letting a lot of people go, but these people weren't knockin the cover off the ball to begin with. I hate the excuse "We are in a down market" these are the best markets ever to pick up tons of clients from bad brokers or someone who isn't paying attention to his book..
 
Getting Insulted and threatened goes with the territory, people insult me all day long when I call them...But I don't care and I call the next guy.. 3 appts set for tomorrow, total $1.5M in assets...
 
please stop whining about Jones... chances are you would have failed much quicker anywhere else..
 
By the way just for clarification(Former Jones guy, indy now) there are 6 prefered funds, but you can basically use most fund families that charge a upfront fee, and you can hold almost anything...

MoneyNeverSleeps's picture
Joined: 2009-01-29

When I was in the biz years ago, $1.5M was an average month. You were probably in diapers at the time. And by the way, let's get one thing straight: I make no excuses for myself. My production fell as a result of the injuries I sustained in an auto accident. I was actively selling for just three months prior to my accident and raised $2M just like that. Not too shabby. All accomplished while the economy was tanking. You're right, it's not hard at all. Furthermore, the threats of termination and insults came from the RL, not prospects. I'm no stranger to rejection. It's the hallmark of this business. My only grievance is that my position was terminated only AFTER I was placed on disability. A disability I suffered as a consequence of traveling to a mandatory Jones event. No offer of medical leave until I heal, just the pink slip. While I was laid up, my RL did not so much as inquire as to the status of my condition. So allow me to summarize: You work at Jones, you get injured at Jones, you get fired at Jones. At least in this region, under the current broken leadership. The decreased production was a result of the injuries sustained, and they knew that. Beyond my control.

Working weekends is a good thing. I always have. Can be very productive. Good luck closing them.

By the way, Squash, I have just one honest question for you, since you seem like a smart guy: Keynes or Friedman?

Lou Mannheim, CFP's picture
Joined: 2009-01-31

First post, great forum. I can speak to all of those who have left Jones, or been fired. I did my 3 years and left the cult. Left after seeing several planners leave to go to Raymond James (including a regional Leader) and others to a bank to get a salary and free toilet paper. I left after building a 16 million dollar book and moved to a new town. Only mistake we made in the 3 years was the choice of town...we hated where we were living and couldn't see ourselves living there the rest of our life. Good for business purposes but terrible for lifestyle. 16 million isn't enough for Indy so working for a CU now in a major city.
 
Hold on, here comes the comments. Flunked out of EJ. Put on goals and looking for a salary. (Been looking at this forum for a couple of years now). I won a trip and was doing fine in the EJ system. Made enough money to satisfy all my bills and SAVE with no debt.
 
At EJ, you're nothing but a dot on a screen being monitored by someone in St.Louis or Toronto. I tell people that and they say "just like Jimmy Pattison". For those of you who don't know, Jimmy Pattison is a Canadian billionaire who owns numerous car dealerships and gained notoritety for firing the salesperson with the lowest sales each month. Yes, I'm Canadian.
 
As per previous comments, you can hold almost any fund, but that's not helping with the upfront money you need to generate on a monthly basis to maintain your dot. Some firms actually compensate you for bringing assets in kind.
 
This was a post going in different directions but I'll be back.
 
 
 

monopolybet's picture
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Joined: 2008-10-18

I think it is great!  That is so true you have absolutely no value but a dot on a ever increasing line!!! I can also believe that no one ever called to check and see how you are doing after a car accident. My region only cares about a select few.  There are so many that never make it, the seg 4 and 5 are burned out being "pretend" field tranner and memtors.  They bring you into the "culture", then one day you wake up and see there is a life outside of Jones. There are 3 groups who do not make it. One does not do the work, 2 are hired and forgotten even though they have good numbers. The third last wake up and see the fake"culture". I am waking up, and I know things are better outside of the old fashion culture at Jones.  THAT is why there is a  5 year plan, to bring in  NEW FA's. No plan at all the fix their cult..oops I mean culture!! I really feel bad for the mentors and field trainers with this unending line of new fa's. Best of luck to you...with the 5 year plan you will need it! I have a freind who is doing her first legacy....she can't stand having to answer every little question, I told him good luck there are many more coming after that!!!

Borker Boy's picture
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Joined: 2006-12-09

monopolybet wrote:
I think it is great!  That is so true you have absolutely no value but a dot on a ever increasing line!!! I can also believe that no one ever called to check and see how you are doing after a car accident. My region only cares about a select few.  There are so many that never make it, the seg 4 and 5 are burned out being "pretend" field tranner and memtors.  They bring you into the "culture", then one day you wake up and see there is a life outside of Jones. There are 3 groups who do not make it. One does not do the work, 2 are hired and forgotten even though they have good numbers. The third last wake up and see the fake"culture". I am waking up, and I know things are better outside of the old fashion culture at Jones.  THAT is why there is a  5 year plan, to bring in  NEW FA's. No plan at all the fix their cult..oops I mean culture!! I really feel bad for the mentors and field trainers with this unending line of new fa's. Best of luck to you...with the 5 year plan you will need it! I have a freind who is doing her first legacy....she can't stand having to answer every little question, I told him good luck there are many more coming after that!!!
 
Cross-dresser or hermaphrodite?

monopolybet's picture
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Joined: 2008-10-18

sorry, the fa is a female, the Legacy is a young man!! I can say I get way too worked up about the culture I signed up for!! oh well it's early.............have a great day!!

Swordoftruth's picture
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Joined: 2008-12-15

It's interesting how some of the larger brokers almost seem to enjoy watching people wash out. Not all, but some of them seem to have this attitude.

I am on GOALS myself. I had a 250K proposal stall on me last month and I ended up on goals.

I'm past the anger point. Also, I take my share of the blame. I've made some mistakes. I haven't done everything right. I think I mistakenly thought the branch was over the hump last year when the branch was running on all cylinders. Referrals were coming in, business was good, and the job for the first time was actually fun.

I had some burning resentments about the distribution of assets in the region. I've even let that go. Ok, so there was an asset lottery and we lost. It happens. It is frustrating to see others relaxed and comfortable when I know they might be enjoying some of the same benefits I have as a "new new". I don't believe the asset inheritors are necessarily better brokers. We were running a marathon and they stepped into an air conditioned limousine and got a ride to mile 15. In my region in the class of 2004 all the other rookies got big bites off of an inherited asset burrito. I got the skin flute instead. I could have used a seat at the table.

We can have the standard "didn't do the work comments". If I'm slacking like everyone says why am I so exhausted? I think constant worry and fear beat you down after a while. Why is it we worry so much about our clients but we treat ourselves as if we were bullet proof and ready for unlimited risk? I got to be honest, I'm burned out on the risk.

I made my first months hurdle on GOALS but now have a job offer on the table. It's nothing glamorous but it will pay my bills and give me a fresh start somewhere else. The DILEMMA is a) Do I stay at Jones and risk getting fired if I miss a hurdle or b) Take the bill paying job and get on with my life.

If this were an ordinary environment I would be more inclined to slug my way through GOALS. I've overcome challenges in the past. I've been here 5 years. This is no ordinary environment. My nearest big city was called the poster child for the foreclosure crisis in the Wall Street Journal.

I'm leaning towards taking the job offer. I think getting terminated if I miss the cut would make it harder for me to find work in the future. It's a hundred times preferable to make a switch on your own accord rather than be terminated. I think we all know with the current job market risking on unemployment now has a new meaning. Getting fired a couple years ago wasn't as big of a deal - though it's never pleasant.

For the self righteous guys, I feel like my own loyalty to the firm has bit my in the rear end. I had solid offers to jump ship from other firms when my numbers were good. And they have been good most of my career. I feel like I should have jumped ship, picked up a few assets, and looked out for number one. Now my loyalty has pushed me into this position where if I miss the cut I face a horrendous job market.

The unemployment road leads to where ? Possible foreclosure? Tapping retirement? Burning though savings? Stress at home with wife and kids?? Fooling around with COBRA to keep medical benefits? Losing things or cutting back an already lean budget?

Why not just take that crappy scenario off the table??

If I had a client and I had a magical investment that could make them a ton of money or possibly go to zero I would probably be hesitant to put many clients in that investment. Right now staying at Jones in this risky environment seems like that risky investment. I could work through GOALs and make a ton of money down the road. OR I could get fired and run a dangerous unemployment scenario.

I admire the guys who have made it. I was darn close. It's frustrating to get so close and have it go bad. I fully admit my mistakes. I think there is a luck factor as well. This was a bad point in my career to have a replay of 1931. If I had got to Segment 4 or 5 first I would have been more ready for it. I think your book size and the percentage of assets annuitized has a lot to do with your books resiliency during a decline like this.

Good luck to all you guys.

monopolybet's picture
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Joined: 2008-10-18

I have said this ever since I have been with Jones. STL's efforts/momentum is messed up. Their focus is bringing in new FA's. the focus is to back-fill offices. They need to change and start looking at people who have proven they can do this job. To put a plan in place to help them get through to the next level. I too, agree some of the seg4/5 really enjoy seeing another one fail at Jones. In some weird way it makes them feel really good about themselves and what they have done . (They also forget about assests that where handed to them, they where) I wish I really knew where their assests came from.
I have a friend who got a 18M office, then had 12m given to him from an office that closed? go figure.  He is the MAN!!! I took over a small office 4M, I am the 5th broker through the door.
I DO NOT CARE WHAT JONES SAYS, IT IS TOUGH TO BE ANOTHER NEW BROKER, IT IS TOUGH ON THE NEW FA. FOR COMPANY WHO SAYS THEY CARE ABOUT THEIR CLIENTS AND BOA'S THE CONSTANT CHANGE OF FA IS HARD BOTH THE BOA AND CLIENTS.
 
I wish the best to you. I too am torn with the exactly the same decision. Best of luck to you.

Swordoftruth's picture
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Joined: 2008-12-15

Hi Ice,

I got 19 million under management. Most is transactional because I followed the Jones A share model most of my career. I do love my clients - like most of us. My book is pretty picked over. Out of my accounts maybe only 3% are inactive. We've looked for the obvious places to boost the numbers. I was up to 24 million last year before the wheels came off the economy.

I have a good friend who is with LPL and before I jump into the wholesaling GIG I will talk to him first.

I've already made the determination that if I do leave Jones I do so in a manner that is the least painful for my clients. I'm not going to blindside them.

It's interesting because up till about 6 months ago I was honestly convinced that the Jones model was the best one to follow. Now, thanks to this market I am questioning "Buy and Hold". Does a client really have to stay fully invested and take the full body blow of a serious bear market?? I know we can't time it but...

They always say you don't want to miss 10 of the markets best days or you cut your return in half??
What happens if you miss a few of the markets worst days?? It works in reverse as well.

My buddy at LPL has been talking to me about some of his options strategies which, though no cure all, have been taking the edge off this bear for some clients.

My won deal is that I'm in a new marriage. I have a strong urge to be the "provider". You know the deal.

Thanks for your thoughtful reply.

Sword

buyandhold's picture
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Joined: 2008-09-23

Tough situation, Sword. Lot of us are sailing into that same sea. I would talk to your friend and listen to what Ice says, because it ain't going to calm down for a while.
 
 

Squash1's picture
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Joined: 2008-11-19

ICE is right... I don't understand why some people just don't get this... Jones people are forgivable because they never get to interact with other brokers..
 
You have $20MM in AUM...Move to LPL take a 70-80% payout(let's assume low 70%).
Xfer your book in-kind(lets assume you get 60% of your book(again go low) so $12MM..
 
So just in trails you have $30K(12M@25bps) so $21K minus fees(assume $3k) so $18K.
 
Now lets change just a few things... So you have been with jones 5 years( so you have some Putnam, Van Kampen, Goldman Crap, etc.) talk to those clients about transitioning to fee based(use no load funds or etfs to decrease their cost or find a 3rd party manager to do it) convert your book to fee based, lets assume year 1 you can convert 50%..
 
Now you have $60K in feebased(assume $6MM at 1% for low end).. plus another 6MM@25bps so....$75K total so that is $52.5K minus expenses= $47.5K.. and that is with no additional assets, no xfer of annuities, no money dues, no bonds due, no referrals, no prospecting...
 
Make the move..
 

Swordoftruth's picture
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Joined: 2008-12-15

Sounds like good advice.

It's time to have the serious conversation with my friend and put numbers on paper. About half of my assets are in funds. Maybe 55%. I do more stock, UIT, and bond business than most brokers in my category. I have a growing annuity slice as well.

I'm curious about one thing. I don't know if anyone knows ?

Normally in UPTICK magazine they print the number of brokers meeting and not meeting expectations. Last issue they mysteriously didn't print that information. Does anyone have any idea how many other brokers are in the same boat??

I heard Segments 2 and 3 are getting rocked. Looking at my own region I could count about 4 guys in my time range that had similar numbers. I even saw a few 7 and 8 year guys whose numbers looked pretty weak.

Annuitization was part of my long term plan. I would have moved with more urgency of course if I had foreseen the events of the past 12 months.

Lapide's picture
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Joined: 2008-08-26

Sword,
I was also in the Jones class of 2004, can-sell-date of March '04.  AUM $18 mill, trailing 12 approx. $180K.  Started looking at LPL about 3 months ago, made a home office visit in the first couple weeks of December, jumped from the giant green ship 2 weeks ago.  It has been the busiest 2 weeks of my life, in the office at 7 am and not home until after 9 pm.  I have averaged about 7-8 appointments per day and so far only 1 client has flat out told me "no, I'm here because of Edward Jones".  I already have signed ACAT paperwork for 20 of my top 35 clients, and I just haven't been able to meet with the other 15 yet, but it's only a matter of time.  I took no info with me from Jones and all I did was send a "Tombstone" letter from LPL to my clients and they have been calling me to schedule appointments.  It is going better than I thought it would be going at this point.  I am talking about my potential strategy to manage money with the fee-based accounts at LPL, which by the way, start with a minimum investment of $25K, and all of my clients are interested, if it could help them down the road.  I am also my own OSJ and I started my own independent office.
You can send me a PM and I would be glad to talk with you to share the strategy I have been using to help my clients see how transferring their assets, after they have inquired, from EJ to LPL will benefit both them and me.  It's a win-win for both of us. 
 
I think it would be a mistake to walk away from the relationships you have built with your clients, unless you can't handle the pressure of the business any more.  That's my 2 cents.  Let me know if you need any help.
 
Lapide

Sam Houston's picture
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Joined: 2008-12-01

Now you have $60K in feebased(assume $6MM at 1% for low end).. plus another 6MM@25bps so....$75K total so that is $52.5K minus expenses= $47.5K.. and that is with no additional assets, no xfer of annuities, no money dues, no bonds due, no referrals, no prospecting...
 
 
Expenses of $5m for the year?  Are you working out of your basement?

Squash1's picture
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Joined: 2008-11-19

He mentioned he had a friend who worked at LPL, I was assuming if his friend took 20% of his production(assuming he shares an office with the guy) then $5K should cover the rest..

noggin's picture
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Joined: 2004-11-30

Swordoftruth wrote:Sounds like good advice. It's time to have the serious conversation with my friend and put numbers on paper. About half of my assets are in funds. Maybe 55%. I do more stock, UIT, and bond business than most brokers in my category. I have a growing annuity slice as well. I'm curious about one thing. I don't know if anyone knows ? Normally in UPTICK magazine they print the number of brokers meeting and not meeting expectations. Last issue they mysteriously didn't print that information. Does anyone have any idea how many other brokers are in the same boat?? I heard Segments 2 and 3 are getting rocked. Looking at my own region I could count about 4 guys in my time range that had similar numbers. I even saw a few 7 and 8 year guys whose numbers looked pretty weak. Annuitization was part of my long term plan. I would have moved with more urgency of course if I had foreseen the events of the past 12 months.
I left Jones almost a year ago and was talking to someone in my old region. He said that 90% of the brokers in the old region are red. Goals is still 40% of expectations, if you stick a new broker in an office he won't go red for at least a year or so. Throw a new broker in an office and eventually that office will be profitable even if you have to chew through 10-12 brokers to do it.... Not a company I want to be associated with.

Hank Moody's picture
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Joined: 2008-11-10

Lapide wrote:Sword,
I was also in the Jones class of 2004, can-sell-date of March '04.  AUM $18 mill, trailing 12 approx. $180K.  Started looking at LPL about 3 months ago, made a home office visit in the first couple weeks of December, jumped from the giant green ship 2 weeks ago.  It has been the busiest 2 weeks of my life, in the office at 7 am and not home until after 9 pm.  I have averaged about 7-8 appointments per day and so far only 1 client has flat out told me "no, I'm here because of Edward Jones".  I already have signed ACAT paperwork for 20 of my top 35 clients, and I just haven't been able to meet with the other 15 yet, but it's only a matter of time.  I took no info with me from Jones and all I did was send a "Tombstone" letter from LPL to my clients and they have been calling me to schedule appointments.  It is going better than I thought it would be going at this point.  I am talking about my potential strategy to manage money with the fee-based accounts at LPL, which by the way, start with a minimum investment of $25K, and all of my clients are interested, if it could help them down the road.  I am also my own OSJ and I started my own independent office.
You can send me a PM and I would be glad to talk with you to share the strategy I have been using to help my clients see how transferring their assets, after they have inquired, from EJ to LPL will benefit both them and me.  It's a win-win for both of us. 
 
I think it would be a mistake to walk away from the relationships you have built with your clients, unless you can't handle the pressure of the business any more.  That's my 2 cents.  Let me know if you need any help.
 
LapideHire some couriers to get the last 15 acats signed. Have the courier stand at the door while the clients signs, so he can bring it right back to you.

monopolybet's picture
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Joined: 2008-10-18

I just looked how our month ended in our region. Many are below the red line.  The growth teams already are expecting 18-25% to leave the culture.  But we all know they have all those recruits to back fill the offices.  The also have the "new"  transfer broker recruiting program.   Jones has all the bases covered. It is their plan, new trumps someone with experience. 
 Oh, well it is still the best way to get the 7, get experience, and move on!!!

Lou Mannheim, CFP's picture
Joined: 2009-01-31

I once heard the term "HR department for the rest of the finance industry"!

monopolybet's picture
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Joined: 2008-10-18

That about it! It just the 3 years of your life you signed up for!!

Lapide's picture
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Joined: 2008-08-26

Hank,
Hiring a courier would be a great idea, but I've never heard of anyone (person or entity). in my neck of the woods who performs that kind of service.  I have about 4 hours tomorrow when I don't have appointments in which I can make outbound calls.  I am confident I will set up most of the appointments tomorrow.  Thanks for the advice.
 
Lapide

Hank Moody's picture
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Joined: 2008-11-10

Lapide wrote:Hank,
Hiring a courier would be a great idea, but I've never heard of anyone (person or entity). in my neck of the woods who performs that kind of service.  LapideI can't believe you said that.

monopolybet's picture
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Joined: 2008-10-18

Can I count each contact made at the door as a door knock?

MoneyNeverSleeps's picture
Joined: 2009-01-29

A qualified contact is defined as someone with whom you've had the opportunity to speak about financial matters or someone with whom you've presented an investment idea. The prospect should demonstrate, at the least, an interest in hearing from you again in the future.

Lou Mannheim, CFP's picture
Joined: 2009-01-31

I always loved the definition of a contact. So many people would have the door slammed in their face, write down the address and name from the mailbox, do a reverse lookup and consider it a contact. Then they wonder when they go back to eval grad and have an f-bomb dropped on them phoning these people. One guy had 600 prospects in the system and 300 phone numbers. One as a joke was Santa Claus. He never made it back to PDP.

yo paulie's picture
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Joined: 2009-01-20

So, Edward Jones is still hiring like crazy (just look on monster.com). They are willing to grow by hiring new people but are letting go the more established segment 2 and 3 who are struggling.
I am still trying to find the logic. I could understand if they were not hiring new people. So you get rid of someone covering most of the office and BOA cost and replace that person with a newbie (not saying anything bad , just looking at the logic).
 
I realize sooner or later, you need to get rid of the non-performers but Saint louis is having tunnel vision and not looking at the whole picture. 

monopolybet's picture
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Joined: 2008-10-18

I agree with you, they are rather crazy about hiring. I heard from two newbies that they where told where to door knock or do a legacy with the seg 2 or seg 3 that was on the "not going to make it list" This is the MOST unprofessional practice I have ever heard of, but since HR is non-exhistant at jones they get away with all kinds of things.  It is awful, how the big guys sit around and discuss who they are are replacing with the newbies in front of  everyone. I look back and remember them talking about the "offices" that could be opening for me when I was new. Looking back it was just another empty promise. 
The region acts like "giving" you an office is such a wonderful thing......they should be thankful we take over offices where 4 others have failed!!! I really wish they would spend some of the resources to figure out how to help the exhisting fa. BUT they never will change..this is the way old Ted would have wanted it done........get the loser out of there..replace them with a new fa that knows all the HOT American Funds, and one stock BAC!!! (how many shares can you buy now with 5k?) gotta love jones

imabroker's picture
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Joined: 2007-12-22

I miss the photo of Ted with the boxing gloves at every meeting.

Lou Mannheim, CFP's picture
Joined: 2009-01-31

I miss the tuna analogy to describe market volatility, or the cow one to describe long term bond interest. My favourite was the "1 in 4". You take a brick and write "1 in 4" on it and leave it on your desk. When the client asks you say "every four years you're going to feel like driving by my office and throwing a brick through the window. When you do, be sure to attach a cheque to the bottom". My RL never did answer me when I asked if the cheque should cover the cost of the wndow

monopolybet's picture
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Joined: 2008-10-18

That is so good!! When I had a seg 4 tell me the tuna analogy I thought I would absolutely die!!! I wanted to ask if I should leave the tuna can open so the smell would give me plenty of opportunity to explain WHY I had a tuna can on my desk....really why not go all the way and have a full dead tuna lying on the desk, right in front of the two ugly green chairs!!!! I am sure a dead tuna would help to improve their portfolio....maybe even motivate them to tie a check to the dead tuna...............gotta love them jones boys!!

monopolybet's picture
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Joined: 2008-10-18

Oh, I forgot one of newest mutual fund analogy. It was a swim pool with lifeguards. The little life rings where the stocks, the lifeguard was the money manger. He was all powerful pulling little life rings in, so the little life rings must have saved them!!!!!!!!!! this is a true story...there is an old hymn, throw out the lifeline someone is drifting away....I am sure the lifeline was a lovely shade of dark green...gotta them them jones boys and their stories
 
No doubt in my mind the analogy should land them at least a 1k rollover!!!

MoneyNeverSleeps's picture
Joined: 2009-01-29

Jones is a multi-level marketing monster. It's a volume business model where retention is not a high priority. All FAs are expendable regardless of segment. Jones is an equal opportunity employment terminator where the sacred 'dot' is the Holy Grail of job security. I recently met one Jones client who confided in me that his current Jones FA was the fourth he's had in less than five years! He expressed his frustration and anger towards Jones for not supporting his third FA, who had been with Jones the longest and was struggling due to the recent market conditions. He had a great relationship with this particular FA. Sadly, he questioned the company's judgement regarding such loose hiring and firing practices. He said that he felt as though he was truly not a valued customer but instead an account number with a dollar sign next to it. I think that fresh, naive recruits are the key to the company's longevity. Why do you think that Jones does not require a college degree? The more applicants, the better. A new hire, properly indoctrinated, will pour his heart and soul into door-knocking and the Jones culture and work tirelessly until they experience burnout or until they finally gain enough industry experience to see the opportunities that await on the other side. For some folks, after a while the bloom comes off the rose. Advisors begin to recognize that Jones is not the best fit for them or their clients. The old-fashioned, folksy culture begins to lose its appeal. Newbies come to Jones as children of the industry full of blind faith. They are passionate, even zealous about the firm and its culture and are eager to begin the never ending journey toward financial independence and of fulfilling the dream of 'running your own office' . They are indoctrinated on a regular basis through incessant meetings, Ted-isms, product partner conference calls, dial-an-idea events, Thursday night promos, etc. The list goes on. And, like good little children, we believe all we're told and never, ever do we question authority or procedure. Before too long, we may begin to feel as though something is missing. We feel as though we are trapped; boxed in. Just a dot on a grid far off in the midwest. That this whole thing is designed for most to fail. We begin to question...everything. Soon, the sobering reality hits home: There really is no place at Jones for independent thinking. But we begin to think for ourselves anyway...and that's when we fail. In the end we find ourselves being ushered away, no longer welcome in the 'family'. What about all our hard work? Our sweat equity? All the countless hours of sacrifice? But we were so close... Rest assured, all is well in the kingdom of Jones. The spirit of Ted will continue to live on in perpetuity. In a few weeks, a freshly minted newbie will be sitting in your chair, still wet behind the ears from eval grad, but full of zeal for all things Jones.   And he will inherit all our hard work and then add to it...In a year or two (if lucky), he will more than likely be forced to bequeath his entire inheritance to the next beneficiary. Wish him luck and tell him not to get too comfortable in that chair.

MoneyNeverSleeps's picture
Joined: 2009-01-29

I had a partner tell me to use this response as a means of overcoming the objection, "I already have a broker (advisor)" or "I'm already working with someone."

"Well, Mr. Prospect, I assumed that you already had an advisor, otherwise I wouldn't be talking to you. Let me ask you, with whom do you currently do business?"

"Smith Barney."

"That's great. So tell me, where do you invest your real money?"   

Lou Mannheim, CFP's picture
Joined: 2009-01-31

One more to the "I already have an advisor".
 
"The average investor has 2.8 advisors, I'd like to be your .8"
 
or
 
Ask the prospect how they feel about the presidency of George Bush. If they say he did a good job say "the reason is because he had a lot of good advisors helping him". If the prospect says Bush did a bad job say "the reason he did a bad job is because he had too many advisors".

monopolybet's picture
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Joined: 2008-10-18

MoneyNeverSleeps (neither do edj seg 2's) I love that fact that I am leaving and I bought my own chair , I trashed all the ugly, ugly greens ones, so the new fa will have to stand!  I am going to a local bank that uses Raymond James.  What my question is, I was the 4th broker in 6 years, I too stayed the longest. I actually have done well. The top 20 clients in my office age mine. (The last two are brought in where 750k & 1.3 mil)   What do I say to clients.  I am leaving Jones because of the culture, also the process of how we are to build our business. (actuallly all the things you put in your post!)  I am in a small town, I have been networking, chamber involvement, Kawanis etc. When I did door knock, they would say things like, I met the other 3 brokers when are you leaving,  I will add your card to the pile...so I did not door knock at all. I would just like a salary, and still have a decent platform for my clients.
So what should I say to explain the change? thanks

Incredible Hulk's picture
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Joined: 2006-03-24

monopolybet wrote: So what should I say to explain the change? thanks

"I didn't make enough money for Jones, so I was put on goals and thought I should leave before they forced me out."?

jkl1v1n6's picture
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Joined: 2008-10-06

MoneyNeverSleeps wrote:Jones is a multi-level marketing monster. It's a volume business model where retention is not a high priority. All FAs are expendable regardless of segment. Jones is an equal opportunity employment terminator where the sacred 'dot' is the Holy Grail of job security. I recently met one Jones client who confided in me that his current Jones FA was the fourth he's had in less than five years! He expressed his frustration and anger towards Jones for not supporting his third FA, who had been with Jones the longest and was struggling due to the recent market conditions. He had a great relationship with this particular FA. Sadly, he questioned the company's judgement regarding such loose hiring and firing practices. He said that he felt as though he was truly not a valued customer but instead an account number with a dollar sign next to it. I think that fresh, naive recruits are the key to the company's longevity. Why do you think that Jones does not require a college degree? The more applicants, the better. A new hire, properly indoctrinated, will pour his heart and soul into door-knocking and the Jones culture and work tirelessly until they experience burnout or until they finally gain enough industry experience to see the opportunities that await on the other side. For some folks, after a while the bloom comes off the rose. Advisors begin to recognize that Jones is not the best fit for them or their clients. The old-fashioned, folksy culture begins to lose its appeal. Newbies come to Jones as children of the industry full of blind faith. They are passionate, even zealous about the firm and its culture and are eager to begin the never ending journey toward financial independence and of fulfilling the dream of 'running your own office' . They are indoctrinated on a regular basis through incessant meetings, Ted-isms, product partner conference calls, dial-an-idea events, Thursday night promos, etc. The list goes on. And, like good little children, we believe all we're told and never, ever do we question authority or procedure. Before too long, we may begin to feel as though something is missing. We feel as though we are trapped; boxed in. Just a dot on a grid far off in the midwest. That this whole thing is designed for most to fail. We begin to question...everything. Soon, the sobering reality hits home: There really is no place at Jones for independent thinking. But we begin to think for ourselves anyway...and that's when we fail. In the end we find ourselves being ushered away, no longer welcome in the 'family'. What about all our hard work? Our sweat equity? All the countless hours of sacrifice? But we were so close... Rest assured, all is well in the kingdom of Jones. The spirit of Ted will continue to live on in perpetuity. In a few weeks, a freshly minted newbie will be sitting in your chair, still wet behind the ears from eval grad, but full of zeal for all things Jones.   And he will inherit all our hard work and then add to it...In a year or two (if lucky), he will more than likely be forced to bequeath his entire inheritance to the next beneficiary. Wish him luck and tell him not to get too comfortable in that chair.
 
 

Spaceman Spiff's picture
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Joined: 2006-08-08

 - Can you guys come up with something original for the reasons you're leaving Jones? 
 
You're blaming the Jones prospecting techniques on your own failure.  Know what, beyond KYC and Eval/Grad, NOBODY is going to force you to doorknock.  You could buy a big billboard, put your phone number and your big smiling face on it, and wait for your phone to ring if you want.  Or you can pick up the phone and smile and dial.  Or you could network yourself into poverty ($10 for Rotary lunch, $15 for Chamber, $20 for BNI, dues, etc.) and never ask for the order.  Or, you could answer the people that say when are you leaving with a chuckle and a smile and say I don't plan on leaving.  The other guys must have not been as good as I am.  It really doesn't matter. 
 
The point of the entire excercise is to get in front of people, tell them what you can do to help them, and ask them to do biz with  you.  Whether you use an analogy centered around a can of tuna or you have the most sophisticated platform and process in the industry is really irrelevant.  You still have to be able to get the people into the chairs at your desk (regardless of the color - BTW, there's this place called Office Depot, they sell different color chairs if you don't like the green ones) and convince them that you know what is best for them and that you can help them.  The name of the biz on your card is irrelevant too.  You have access to the same stock market as everyone else.  How you choose to utilize it is up to you. 
 
And don't blame Jones for your lack of ability to think outside the box.  The Jones "box" exists because they have been doing this for a long time and have found what they believe works for the majority of our clients.  Having the ability to add "alternative investments" to your product mix, doesn't immediately make you a better advisor.  And if you never questioned the authority or the procedure, then that just makes you stupid and naive.  I am constantly asking why do we do this, why don't we do that.  Normally I find an answer I'm satisfied with.  Sometimes, like right now with all the new hires, I don't agree with the approach they are using.  I'll keep asking why. 
 
So, at the end of the day, you have to make a choice about the company you work for.  You either like where you work, or you don't.  You have to agree with the policies and procedures or you don't.  You have to agree that you are doing the best you can for your clients, or you don't.  If you don't, just leave.  Don't complain ad nauseum about how bad it was and why you're glad you're gone, just leave.  Go start a new life in a new company.   
 
Jones is not a MLM.  That may be the most stupid comment I've ever read on this board.  And spears and I have had a lot of these conversations. 
 
When you guys leave, do us a favor.  Don't come back to us a year later whining about not feeling like the other Jones FAs won't be your friends anymore.  They probably won't be your buddy any longer.  They'll go find someone new to hang out with.  That's just the way it is. 
 
Good luck with that salary.  Hope you like 4% raises.  Mine income should go up by about 20% this year.   

Bull&Bear's picture
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Joined: 2007-10-26

Great post, Spiff!

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