Leaving EDJ before Can-Sell

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tooyoung's picture
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Joined: 2008-06-18

I am in desperate need of some guidance.

I have just completed EDJ's KYC class, and after a bit of full-time "cold walking", I had a sudden revelation. I have found something in my life that I am fairly certain that I just cannot do. The prospecting method leaves me feeling like an abandoned child, yearning for the attention of a friendly face. This is not something you can be trained to overcome, and no amount of dedication, ambition, or drive will help void this feeling of deafening silence.

After speaking with a good friend/current rep, he informed me of the employment contracts I have signed. Being fresh to the work force after years of education, the shear excitement of being offered a position at Fortune's #4 company to work for had me in a haste to sign all necessary documents and begin training.

After 2 weeks of forcing myself through purgatory, I have officially decided that it is time to move. Personal happiness is worth more than any paycheck, or so I believe at my current stage of life. However, I have some questions that I would like to ask you knowledgeable folk instead of the people at EDJ to deter any red-flaginess until I can plan out how to do this.

As far as I can tell after hours of reading, I have 3 options, and I'd like an opinion on them.

1) I can quit. Does quitting before my can-sell constitute me for the $75,000 charge? I have upcoming interviews with Vanguard (any comments?) and MS (ditto?), so the assumption is that I will be moving to another BD (I assume Vanguard counts? They require a 6 and 63, I hold the 7 and 66 as per EDJ). Also, do I lose my licensing? Obviously I'd rather retain them, as re-taking the exams just seems unnecessary. What else can I expect to happen if I voluntarily lay myself off? I wasn't sure if there is a difference if I have not obtained my can-sell yet. On the bright side, I was able to make this decision early on.

2) I can get fired. How bad would this scar my record? I've heard this voids you of all the fee's, and also allows you to transfer over your license. But there is just something about being fired that doesn't sit well with me. However, to cancel a $75,000 bill, I'd do much worse ;) It seems too good to be true, what am I missing...

3) Someone informed me that I could potentially seek a psychiatrist and obtain a note, claiming an anxiety-disorder perhaps, and using this as grounds for quitting. They said this will legally void me of the charges, and make my exit fairly smooth. However, I think something like this would be put on my permanent records, and may make obtaining a new job fairly impossible (even more so than quitting?)

Situationally, I am 22 years old and fresh out of college. Graduated Summa Cum Laude (but I've been told that's only good for your first interview). So my biggest fear is that if I quit, most firms will look at me as a young failure. My options will be severely limited at that point. I am young, but I have a good head on my shoulders, and I am not remotely afraid of long hours or the pressure of sales quotas. I just happened to run into a debilitating emotion known as utter loneliness. There's just something about wandering the streets for 8 hour's a day without having a friend to smile with every once in a while...

This is my first post, but hopefully I have done enough reading to not sound like a complete newnew, although I am. Look forward to your responses, as I really need to begin to make some decisions.

Thank you all very much!

River_King's picture
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Joined: 2008-05-26

As posted above.
It's two years... Tough it out, set yourself for the rest of your life. I'm sure it will get easier.

tooyoung's picture
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Joined: 2008-06-18

Helpfull. Thanks :)

henryhill's picture
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Joined: 2007-08-23

If you go to a competitor, they may come after you.  If you do something other than financial services, they will probably let it go.

Broker24's picture
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Joined: 2006-10-12

If you drop your licenses, they will NOT go after you.  Just call your ATL and tell them you just cannot do this job.  However, you don't actually have your license yet (that doesn't come until Eval/Grad), so, you are home-free.  I believe you are not financially strapped until you actually get your can-sell date.  And even after that, they will only come after you if you try to go to a competitor with your licenses.  But don't quote me on any of this.

babbling looney's picture
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Joined: 2004-12-02

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So you have decided that it is too hard and not much fun to do the cold walking thingy.  How are you going to feel about doing cold calling on the phone?  The deafening silence after the prospect hangs up on you isn't going to feel great either.  You are prospecting, not socializing.  Talk to your prospects!!  How in the world do you expect to get through life if you have to have a 'buddy' around you all the time?
Get over it.  Or as Feris said...grow a pair.  We ALL had to go through the prospecting part and we are ALL still prospecting.  That is part of being in this business.  The good news is that as you become more and more sucessful, the cold prospecting is less of your business and more clients will come from referrals.  This business is tough.  Man up.
On your other question.  You are screwed.  The company will expect you to pay back the training costs, especially if you chose to stay in the industry.

norway401's picture
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Joined: 2007-10-16

Babbling is " right on the money " with comments. If you can't prospect face to face , it won't be anymore pleasant over the phone. At 22 , perhaps you just aren't ready , not a crime and maybe the industry is not for you?
Remember the phrase ....your first loss , is your best loss. If it's not for you, going elsewhere you are still going to have to prospect.

jtorgerson's picture
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Joined: 2008-05-04

Hi tooyoung:
 
I believe they will come after you if you leave voluntarily and go anywhere else in the industry for the next two years. You don't have a can sell date yet but you did pass the Series 7 and 66, so I think they can say the investment in your education has been spent.
 
I am curious as to how you got this far before you realized you weren't going to like prospecting. You had to do it prior to your face-to-face interview, right? You had a day during training where you were supposed to go do it (I believe Week 8), so what changed now?
 
I'd have to say, thinking you are going to jump from EdJ and land somewhere softer is wishful thinking. From what I've seen, Jones is one of the easiest places to get started.

MoMoney's picture
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Joined: 2008-06-16

I wish everything was handed to me on a silver platter to.Tooyoung, its sounds like you haven't even tried man. That nonsense about getting yourself fired and seeing a head shrinker is flat out comical and sad my friend. Take the training you have received an TRY.....TRY !You are communicating the actions of failure. With this approach you will never succeed at anything you do. You passed all the tests, so you obviously have some kind of intelligence.

jtorgerson's picture
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Joined: 2008-05-04

I've interviewed many, many college kids and they all think getting the degree after four years of partying means they are now entitled to a trouble-free life. The real world wants results first, before it gives a damn how you're feeling.
 

River_King's picture
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jtorgerson wrote:
I've interviewed many, many college kids and they all think getting the degree after four years of partying means they are now entitled to a trouble-free life. The real world wants results first, before it gives a damn how you're feeling.
 
Amen.

troll's picture
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Joined: 2004-11-29

Getting a note from a shrink????  This is a new one for me.  Seems if you used that type of creativity to WORK you would be just fine.  If you go elsewhere in the industry, you owe training costs.  Period.  Although you could try getting a note from your mommy, that one worked in grade school.

OldLady's picture
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Joined: 2006-11-19

Kid - at this point, your best bet is to quit and go find a nice salaried job outside the industry.  Jones won't go after you.  I would imagine even if you tried to get hired by a bank in a non-securities job, but "park" your 7, Jones would come after you.
 
Cancel the interviews - Vanguard won't care if you washed out at EDJ, but they won't pay for those training costs & Jones WILL come after you (they will settle for less than the $75k, but it will still be more than you can or should afford).  Another brokerage firm/wirehouse house/insurance company, etc. will view the washout as a kiss of death.  I can't imagine any would be willing to pay Jones training costs to get someone who failed. 

rankstocks's picture
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TooYoung,
    Don't feel bad about your situation.  I see it 70-80% of the time anyway.  I am very thankful that this industry has such a high failure rate, because if it didn't, everyone would be making 50k a year sitting behind a desk doing the same thing.  I did 2 1/2 years of doorknocking, coldcalling, and seminars, and now 14 years later manage over 150 million.  All from scratch, started at Jones at 24.  
    It's obvious you don't have the stones to do this kind of work.  Just chalk it up to you being in the majority....meaning only around 5% of the population can be successful at this career. 

snaggletooth's picture
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Joined: 2007-07-13

Isn't it kind of funny to see all these college grads saying they graduated with 4.0's at the top of their class with some cum laude title?  That stuff wouldn't even impress me at all if I was interviewing them.
 
I would be willing to bet that the people who have the most people skills and are extremely well-rounded were average students, something around a 3.0.  These people are best suited for what we do. 
 
The 4.0's will find something, maybe an analyst position, but I have to believe more often than not, they are disappointed in the tough work, made tougher without great communication and people skills on the retail side.

Eyetattoo's picture
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Joined: 2008-03-29

Man up and get better at talking to people.....of course it sucks but the longer you stay the less you are out door knocking.  Or quit be a failure and leave more clients for the rest of us.

ExPropTrader's picture
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Joined: 2006-11-19

Ferris Bueller wrote:4) Grow a sack, man up and do the cold walking, be a success and make lots of money.Have to agree with Ferris, I don't work for EDJ and never have but I've been around long enough to know that the successful people never do things that are "comfortable" at least at first.  Put in your time and I think you'll be happy, what do you have to lose?

Magician's picture
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Joined: 2008-05-19

You can't be trained to overcome your emotions?

That just sounds like an excuse to be lazy. Look, if it's not working for you, look at alternative methods.

Use the brain you have (which you graduated Summa Cum Laude with) and put that same dedication an energy in to building a book. Really.

Go through the posts on these boards. There are a lot of smart, hard-working people here that can help. Read posts from guys like Spaceman Spiff, Morphius, The Judge, Roadhard. Also, look at alternative ways to earn business.

By the way, people overcome their emotions all the time. Overcoming your fear is courage. Courageous people win the war.

And if your upset by the people giving you some "tough" advice on here, suck it up.

My advice: Take a knee, drink some water, suck it up and DRIVE ON!

tooyoung's picture
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Joined: 2008-06-18

Ouch. I suppose after rereading my post I deserved some of that. I cannot blame you for making assumptions, as all you know of me is a single post. But it is also unfair to prejudge me so harshly. There's a psychological theory known as the fundamental attribution error, in which when one makes a mistake, they blame it on their situation, but when they see someone else make a mistake, they tend to blame it on the person. For example, a man is speeding and cuts you off -- many would think this guy is an asshole. It doesn't cross most people's minds that perhaps his wife is in labor, or he's late for the most important meeting of his life, etc. etc.

Anyway, like I said, I don't blame you guys. But it is unfair to assume that I need to grow some nuts and go balls to the wall and get through this. I have been doing that my entire life. I was raised in the inner city, where crime and poverty were as normal as the french eating cheese. In my life, I have witnessed my father's dead body after he committed suicide in his apartment when I was 14, because he was an alcoholic and tried to rape a little girl and lost everything he had in life (and no, I don't feel sorry for him). At that point, I was forced to work full-time while struggling through high school so I could pay some of the bills. I've been through points without water, electricity, or food for months at a time. I've eaten raw onions because there was nothing else left. I've been stabbed for lunch money. I was privileged enough to witness my friend get shot in the chest and die as he bled on the street. I am fortunate enough to have a lesbian for a mother, I suppose my dad really did something to her mind. I've had 3 friends die from drug overdoses, and more than 5 become victims of crack cocaine addictions, which left them as itchy, homeless, feigns.

But I did what you guys suggest. I grew some balls, and got through it. I put myself through high school, and eventually college, on my own sweat and money. I have been going at it full speed since early childhood, and to be honest, it is really unnecessary for you all to assume that I am some hand-me-down smart kid with good grades in school who doesn't want to work. I know what life is like. I am not that smart, I busted my butt to get those grades while working full-time so I could have the opportunity to better myself; something that I was not fortunate enough to just be born into. I pray to God every night to rid my mind of the things I have been privy to, but I kept moving forward.

I do not know what it is about door knocking that hits me so hard. You are right, I should just do it like I have done my entire life. But after 3 or 4 days of it, something hit me. Whether it be connected to my past or a newfound feeling, it is debilitating. Perhaps the feelings of loneliness were the last straw for my mind after all it has seen, but I swear to you all, I do keep trying. And I keep failing. It hurts me more to know that I am going to fail for what seems like such a minute reason after everything I have done to get myself here, than anything else I have ever experienced. It is tearing me apart. I keep trying, and I keep failing. I did not cry when I saw my father's body, yet tears stream down my cheeks over this.

I am sorry to have offended you all by being a failure, but rest assured, it's not something I make a habit of. And for those that offered some answers, thank you very much.. I now realize everything I have worked for is going to be taken away by a haunting past. Enjoy your lives, I'll go back to being an anonymous reader. I wish you all great success.

Kudous   

jtorgerson's picture
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snaggletooth wrote:Isn't it kind of funny to see all these college grads saying they graduated with 4.0's at the top of their class with some cum laude title?  That stuff wouldn't even impress me at all if I was interviewing them.
 
I would be willing to bet that the people who have the most people skills and are extremely well-rounded were average students, something around a 3.0.  These people are best suited for what we do. 
 
The 4.0's will find something, maybe an analyst position, but I have to believe more often than not, they are disappointed in the tough work, made tougher without great communication and people skills on the retail side.
 
I think it was Robert Kyosaki who once said:
 
"A" students work for "C" students. "B" students work for the government.

jtorgerson's picture
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tooyoung wrote:I am sorry to have offended you all by being a failure, but rest assured, it's not something I make a habit of. And for those that offered some answers, thank you very much.. I now realize everything I have worked for is going to be taken away by a haunting past.
 
Right there is your problem, and don't feel bad - it's a problem for most very young guys coming out of college. You spent the last 4 years only theorizing and soul-searching. And mostly, finding popularity and a place to fit in.
 

No one here was offended by your questions. We were trying to help you face the real working world, which is NOT what your professors told you it would be (have you ever heard the old adage, "Those who can't do, teach"?)
 Prospecting is about rummaging through an entire field of weeds looking for one or two flowers. That's it. It's a numbers game. Emotions cannot play a part. To use your own example, you think the guy who shuts the door in your face even thinks about you 10 minutes from now? Nope- he's moved on. But a young guy who wants to be LIKED rather than wants to PROSPECT FOR CLIENTS, will carry that door slam with him all day.
 
My friend, it shouldn't matter to you what we feel, because it doesn't matter to the guy behind the door what you feel.  We're trying to give you a sense of the thick skin you're going to need to survive not only this profession, but most of them. If you can't carry on in the face of self-imposed adversity, not only is this business too tough, but I would honestly steer clear of any sales job or self-employment.
 

MoMoney's picture
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Joined: 2008-06-16

Tooyoung, sorry about your dad. I realize your have gone through a lot. So have many other people. For most what you have gone through just fuels their desire to succeed. You have to look at your journey and relate it to climbing a ladder/mountain. Would you climb up it 95% of the way and look back and say "wow Ive come far, didnt realize how scared I was so I better climb back down"?No. You've already done the hard parts. You owe it to yourself to soldier on a find TRUE confirmation that you cannot make it........like your boss telling you to take a hike.Quit now and you surrender your hard work.

tooyoung's picture
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Joined: 2008-06-18

You're right. This isn't the job for me, and I have tried to come to terms with this. It sucks. But I was trying to find my way out, because for one excuse or another, this isn't where I belong. It is not the door slams that bother me, it is the few hours that pass where not a single door is opened to me. That's what begins to eat me alive. After what it took to get here, I finally feel like I need to slow down and enjoy my life a little more than I've allowed myself to. And this thought has probably come at a horrible time. I am burnt out, and at this point, just want to sit at a desk and be subjected to someone telling me what to do for a change. Its sad, but a newfound truth. I just don't think there is a way out that won't destroy me.

snaggletooth's picture
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jtorgerson wrote:snaggletooth wrote:Isn't it kind of funny to see all these college grads saying they graduated with 4.0's at the top of their class with some cum laude title?  That stuff wouldn't even impress me at all if I was interviewing them.
 
I would be willing to bet that the people who have the most people skills and are extremely well-rounded were average students, something around a 3.0.  These people are best suited for what we do. 
 
The 4.0's will find something, maybe an analyst position, but I have to believe more often than not, they are disappointed in the tough work, made tougher without great communication and people skills on the retail side.
 
I think it was Robert Kyosaki who once said:
 
"A" students work for "C" students. "B" students work for the government.
 
Probably the only thing Kyosaki has said that I agree with.  I don't really like that guy.

snaggletooth's picture
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tooyoung wrote:You're right. This isn't the job for me, and I have tried to come to terms with this. It sucks. But I was trying to find my way out, because for one excuse or another, this isn't where I belong. It is not the door slams that bother me, it is the few hours that pass where not a single door is opened to me. That's what begins to eat me alive. After what it took to get here, I finally feel like I need to slow down and enjoy my life a little more than I've allowed myself to. And this thought has probably come at a horrible time. I am burnt out, and at this point, just want to sit at a desk and be subjected to someone telling me what to do for a change. Its sad, but a newfound truth. I just don't think there is a way out that won't destroy me.
 
Congratulations!  You found out what you don't want to do.  Thomas Edison found 10,000 ways to not make a light bulb. 
 
Some here might find this as giving up, but you should consider sitting down with your higher-up and telling him what you've told us.  Tell him that you don't want this as a career.  Tell him you are leaving the industry to find what you truly want to do.  Go find something that makes you happy, work hard at it, and see where your road of life takes you. 
 
Just handle this like a man, and I'm sure you won't get "destroyed".  Be honest and sincere and leave the industry.  If you decide you want to come back in 5 or 10 years, then make that decision at that point.

tooyoung's picture
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snaggle, I really appreciate your post. That is exactly how I feel right now. My problem is, with a degree in accounting/finance, I don't see myself leaving the industry. I know that brokerage is not where I belong, at least not at this stage in my life. But if I go work for Vanguard as someone who does nothing but answer questions on the phone about their funds, doesn't that still count as "in the industry"? They require a 6 and 63 for the position, so I am assuming that job is something EDJ would come after me for. I would not be selling, but I would be discussing.

I enjoy the markets and almost everything finance-related, which is why I obtained my degree in it. The dilemma I am going through is that I want to work in the industry, but I do not believe I can handle brokerage at this stage in my life. I want to have weekends off, and to be able to hang out with friends, or watch the football game, etc. I haven't been able to do that for way too long, being in school during the days and working at nights/weekends. At this point, I am willing to settle for 30k a year to sit in a chair answering a phone for a while, as long as I get to smile every so often.

Will they really come after me if I am not selling for another firm? I mean, Vanguard is a mutual fund.. they aren't a brokerage per se, but they still count?

new_indy's picture
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Joined: 2007-03-28

Kid,
Don't feel bad.  You just picked the wrong horse.  Jones isn't that great of a firm, it is just some place to start.  Talk to your trainer, tell him/her where you are.  Let them know that you just can't/won't get the job done.  They won't want you in the field since it will cost them more money anyway.  Maybe you can get a job in the Jones home office.  If not, get them to sign a waiver of the contract before you leave.  They cannot keep you from making a living, and they won't want to spend more money on a losing proposition.   Don't hedge with them, don't lie to them, just let them know that they can continue to pay you the starting pay, or they can let you go penalty free.

norway401's picture
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Joined: 2007-10-16

You have come to just part of what we all go through...that is the journey of life. If you have done your soul searching and concluded that this is NOT where you want to be then that is your choice.
If you have been honest wih yourself , then that is a good thing , now be honest with the employer. If presented in the right way and being honest with them , you may be surprised. I would not attempt to suggest that you are considering another Industry Position....that would be a red flag. Consider other career options , spend some time and learn from both your employment and life experiences.

teke1600's picture
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Joined: 2008-04-29

I have a question...How do Firms like EDJ get away with a $75k clause of recourse no matter the length of service or training?  I mean in all reality they probably never even come close to putting that much money into someone in their first year, let alone the first few months.  I mean, why don't the just have you sign a waiver saying that you will owe them $1 meeeeellliioooon dollars if you don't stay with them for 3 years and work in the industry to make it more clear they are just ripping you off? 

Magician's picture
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Joined: 2008-05-19

Man that sucks. But remember: everybody's got something. Some people have cancer, some people are missing limbs. I'm willing to bet 90 percent of the people on his board had to work full time (and overtime) to pay for school. Not to down you, but you sound like someone who has never given up. My previous advice stands.

Listen, if you truly dont want to do it anymore, then leave with dignity. Tell them straight up, thank them for the opportunity and try and get a job as an analyst. I think that is the path you should take. There is nothing academically harder than the CFA exam. If prospecting is troubling you now, move forward. This will be hard in a different way.

saul4paul's picture
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tooyoung wrote:I am in desperate need of some guidance.
 
Hi,
 
I'm Saul4paul,Tooyoung, I am the man who can give you guidance! I am a mans man. People look up to me even though Im only 5 foot. I wear cowboy outfits no matter where I go. Believe it or not , I used to wear a Superman suit when I would go out, to town, to eat, where ever I went.
 
I too was once lost, then I found a man named Ron Paul! Google him. Also you can look arounnd the famous site dailypaul.com. Tooyoung remember, the folks on this board for the most part have been FA's for less than 5 years. They are newbees.
 
Good luck and G_d bless,
Attend a church of your choice this Saturday.

Magician's picture
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TooYoung,

While I think 70k is slightly high, the firm does put a lot into you. Also remember you're paying for stuff that lead directly to you being hired, a portion of your SST's salary, your trainers in stl, your flights, hotel, food, your salary, what the GPs would have made if you stayed, etc. But since you havent even done eval/grad, its unlikely they have paid all that much.

Saul- welcome back buddy! i thought you got smashed up in the mosh pit at the Ron Paul rally.

tooyoung's picture
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Joined: 2008-06-18

75k does seem high, but here's my understanding:

The $75,000 is what they can sue you for if you goto a competing firm under a noncompete clause.

They actually estimate $100,000 in training expenses over the next 3 years, which they charge you for on a backward pro-rata basis. For some reason, although I am only a few months in, that means I have to pay more. For every year you work, it goes down by 1/3, and is eliminated at the end of your third year. So, the more they actually spend, the less you owe them, and the less they spend, the more you owe them.

I called one of my bosses and left a message. Here's the the rest of my life *cheers*

P.S. Saul4Paul, that was one of the most inspirational posts I have read to-date. Thanks :)

new_indy's picture
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Keep in mind, you can argue that going to work at a schwab or vanguard is not competition since you would essentially be a salaried order taker, not a competitive salesperson.  You would not be making outbound calls nor marketing to obtain new clients.  Bottomline, if you aren't cut out to "sell", not even Jones would want you, let alone a real firm.

MoMoney's picture
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tooyoung wrote:I called one of my bosses and left a message. Here's the the rest of my life *cheers*

What did you leave on the voicemail ? Your 2 weeks notice ?

Dark Knight's picture
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OldLady wrote:Kid - at this point, your best bet is to quit and go find a nice salaried job outside the industry.  Jones won't go after you.  I would imagine even if you tried to get hired by a bank in a non-securities job, but "park" your 7, Jones would come after you.
 
Cancel the interviews - Vanguard won't care if you washed out at EDJ, but they won't pay for those training costs & Jones WILL come after you (they will settle for less than the $75k, but it will still be more than you can or should afford).  Another brokerage firm/wirehouse house/insurance company, etc. will view the washout as a kiss of death.  I can't imagine any would be willing to pay Jones training costs to get someone who failed. 
 
I don't think so.  Close friend of mine parked his at a bank, even sold a couple mutual funds in a private banker position.  They haven't come after him.  It's been a year.

tooyoung's picture
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Haha, I left a message asking him to give me a call back when he gets a few moments to talk.. :)

And as far as the licensing, I have been told that since I have not reached my "Can-Sell" date as of yet, I am not registered yet.. meaning no matter what, I am going to lose them one way or another? I had passed the 7 in the middle of may, and the 66 at the end of may. Should I expect to retake them anyway, and since I am not trying to transfer the licensing, would this make a difference in EDJ trying to execute me?

Again, you ladies and gentlemen have been incredibly helpful. I am eternally grateful.

MoMoney's picture
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Tooy, dont break up with him over the phone lol.These things are better handled face to face. You may need a reference one day and you want your last employer to respect you to the utmost.Its much harder for someone to stick it to you when you look them in the eye......unless he's a ruthless SOB then you SOL.

GoldCaddy's picture
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Joined: 2007-02-16

While many of the contributors to this forum have been blunt and direct that doesn't mitigate the truth of what they have said.  The heart and soul of success in this business is prospecting.  With time it transitions to referrals but knocking doors is a necessity.
You need to change your perception of what you are doing.  Think of the value you will provide to those persons who are lucky enough to listen to you and follow your advice.
 
I left Jones.  If you stay in the industry they will take you to arbitration and you'll end up settling.  I am very very happy I left.

chief's picture
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Joined: 2008-06-18

Just quit!  If you spent as much time working on building your business as you did looking for ways out of the system, you might be a success.  But from the looks of it, you are just looking for some way to CYA.  Having served as a visiting vet and donated my time (weeks) away from my business trying to help folks like you get started, just to have you quit becasue it got a little "lonely" really chaps my hide.  You've had trainers, mentors, ATL's, Study for Succes trainers all expend their time and EJ $ to help you and you want to walk cuz it's lonely.  Grow up!  Life is hard and it's not always fair.  Take your blanket and your bottle and your silver platter with you to whoever you think is going to hold your hand and coddle you

new_indy's picture
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Joined: 2007-03-28

Wow chief, a little harsh dontcha think?  If you and Jones really want to continue to pay for someone that A: may not make it, and B: will probably leave after 3 years anyway, then go for it.  Isn't that part of the Jones investment philosophy anyway?  Throw money at a losing proposition and hope things work out ok....DCA it's down 20%... buy more it's on sale... buy more cuz our home office says to....  Cut the kid some slack.  Haven't you ever taken a job and found out you it wasn't the right fit for you?

new_indy's picture
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Joined: 2007-03-28

By the way, if it didn't improve your P&L and give you a shot at more LP offerings, you probably wouldn't care one way or another about mentoring, being a visiting vet, etc...  It is a little difficult to appear altruistic when you get paid on the back end for your efforts.  As I recall, the trainer, mentor and ATL could have pulled the plug at any time on the kid.  Why shouldn't he be concerned about the non-compete contract?  It's a farce anyway.  Whatever Jones lossed on the deal is just a cost of doing business and cutting losses.

Magician's picture
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Joined: 2008-05-19

chief. that was pretty cold blooded. read one of his later posts - i think he gets it that life is tough.

tooyoung's picture
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Joined: 2008-06-18

I appreciate you guys sticking up for me, but he is right. I have wasted valuable resources. On the bright side, I am brave enough to quit without wasting anymore. I have come to terms with myself that although this is an excellent opportunity, it isn't for me. At least not at this point in my life.

I really appreciate what you guys do as vets and mentors chief. I appreciate it enough to disallow myself from wasting anymore of EDJ's time.

Instead of this excellent opportunity, I am going to end up behind a desk making 30k a year. And I am doing this because I understand that I do not have enough left in me at this point to succeed. You should be thanking me.

Enjoy your unfounded self-pity.

MoMoney's picture
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Joined: 2008-06-16

Lots of people jump in the deep end and THEN find out they cant swim lol.Chalk it up to one of lifes trials and tribulations.

tooyoung's picture
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Joined: 2008-06-18

"A negative attitude is like a rocking chair, it gives you something to do without getting anywhere"

I'm sure that was said by some famous guy that I cannot cite.

chief's picture
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Joined: 2008-06-18

Was I harsh? Maybe.  Was I blunt? Yes.  I understand he has had a tough life.  We all have had a tough life at some point. I am the ninth of 10 kids, put myself through college, earned money with work-study program in college.  I sold my high-school class ring for food and had to cut back to two-meals a day in college because I couldn't afford three.  After attending classes full-time in the mornings, playing a collegiate sport full-time in the afternoon, and then going back to the dorms at night to clean the bathroms and showers of my fellow dormmates.  I got through (not summa cum laude but over 3.0).   I have walked streets doorknocking in the dead of winter when it is 10 degres outside trying to support a wife and kids. Have I thought about leaving Jones? Yes, several times.  Have I? No.  Because I am in a great position.  I am my own boss with a nice office and nice clients.  I have gone on trips around the world to places I never thought I would see.
 
Why do I mentor, train and VV? Because I think this has been a great opportunity for me and my family.  People gave to me when I started and I owe it to pass it on. It pains me to see my twenty-something trainees quit early in the game at the first sign of difficulty.  No matter where you go, you spend your first several years trying to impress your bosses and you work your tail off.  Why not do it at Jones, get through the first 5 years and have a great business by the time your 30 and enjoy the rewards for the next 30????  Tell me where else in America a twenty-something can be given an opportunity to be their own boss and have an opportunity to run their own legitimate business on someone else's capital?  Get profit-sharing bonuses, trips around the world, trimester bonuses?  I wish I had known about EJ whenI was twenty-something (instead of in my late thirties).  Look in the papers and journals.  How many brokers have our competitors laid off recently (and back in 2001-2002) when times got tough?  How many did EJ cut?  Corporate America is not kind when the bottom line gets pinched and the shareholder wins over the employee everytime. 
Why does EJ rank so high every year in Fortune, Reg Rep, etc.? 
Bottom line, it will be tough no matter where you go for the first several years.  Why not go through it once with EJ and enjoy being your own boss for the next thirty?
 
I'm sorry tooyoung had to experience what he did growing up.  Shoot, this should be easy after that.  If you need help, ask.  Just like we tell our clients, don't let the short-term derail a good long-term plan.

Magician's picture
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Joined: 2008-05-19

I hear you chief, but I have to echo icecold.

You certainly aren't a business owner. To be honest, I'm wondering how Jones can get away with even saying that - it is quite a bit misleading.

His issue was that he wanted to leave. Some of us were trying to tell him to tough it out. He made it clear it just wasn't a fit for him. Not everyone wants to be the relationship person in this business. He may be a brilliant money manager (why I told him to pursue the CFA).

Being an advisor/broker/planner isn't the be all end all and neither is Jones. But I think the kool-aid drinkers do think so.

As for asking for help - no one is going to doorknock for him.

I already mentioned that everyone has had a rough life. And each person bears their burden differently. I just got a say, his life has SUCKED.

The office I'm planning on moving to when I transition is nice too - a lot bigger, and a lot cheaper. I asked the landlord how much he charges Jones v. how much it costs the branch - 50% more. I also have nice clients who I plan on taking with me. My wife and I take trips around the world all of the time - I take the Jones cash and turn it into something better. And I don't have to deal with insufferable GP's and other sanctimonious Jones brokers who were handed their books.

I think you would do yourself and your family a favor if you looked at leaving. Just a thought.

tooyoung's picture
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Joined: 2008-06-18

Chief,

I appreciate your concern for me (Jones?) wholeheartedly. However, I have been chugging along my entire life as a loner. They say that you become your surroundings. The entire argument of understanding human psychology is nature vs. nurture, or, your environment vs. your genetics. My environment was chaos and despair. My heart goes out to everyone of those children born into that world, because society probably will not let them leave. I succeeded when not a single person I have had the privilege of being acquainted to has. Why? Because I literally cut myself off from every last one of them. Ever told your best friend that you grew up with and share nearly every aspect of life, that you can't be around them anymore until they change?

I did, and I surrounded myself with what I considered to be successful people. Success breeds success, and here I am. But I have sacrificed human nature to get here. And to me, Jones' model of business was asking me to continue to be alone. I do apologize that I did not realize this sooner.. I honestly had forgotten how much comrade meant to me, and should mean to everyone. I am not a loner by nature, I love people. I surround myself with people. However, at 22, I lack people to share childhood stories with or someone that I can even remotely relate to. So, at this stage of my life, I'd like to build some real relationships. Perhaps in 10 years I will feel as close to these people as I had to my best friend Adam, who shared the experience of poverty, the deaths of our fathers, and the evil that permeates the city along side of me -- and together we got through it. But in order to discontinue merely "getting through", I had to make decisions to "get out".

Again chief, I am eternally grateful for your concerns for both your company as well as myself. It is noble to get angry and defend your company when others seem to be hurting it -- that is true loyalty, and I envy you. The fact of the matter however, is that I have not found that place for me.

Magician, I had never thought of obtaining a CFA or CFP. But I truly appreciate you mentioning it, because I have spent a few hours researching what is needed to acquire these licenses. I have learned that Vanguard has their own CFP training courses. What is the difference between the CFP and the CFA, when related to real-world experiences?

BondGuy's picture
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Joined: 2006-09-21

And 22 year olds come to this forum and ask "Why won't most firms hire me at 22?"
 
Because you're 22 and next week you may decide you want to be an astronaut. Because you're 22 and tomorrow a friend may say let's move to to Daytona and live on the beach and you say yes. Because you're 22 and you don't know anything. Because you're 22 and you are still a kid.
 
tooyoung, my only questions are; what did you think this was going to be? And, how did you think you were going to aquire clients?
 
 
 
This is why any hiring manager who says yes to hiring a 22 year old needs to have their head examined.

snaggletooth's picture
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Joined: 2007-07-13

MISS JONES wrote:Likely you (Ice) will not win a trip or win a bonus this year but most of our new FA's do.. and 50% of all our FA's win a trip TWICE a year.. That is not the norm anywhere else.
 

 
I'd rather take my higher pay out and buy my own trips TWICE or maybe THRICE a year!
 
Just out of curiosity, do they give you a list of places you can go, or is it based on how well you did?  (I.e.: Congrats, you made it to Topeka or Good Job you earned enough to go to Cancun?)
 
As an independent, if I focused more on life insurance, I could win trips through my insurance vendors, but I don't do enough of it.

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