Ohio Tax Free Bonds Questions

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futurestrader's picture
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Joined: 2007-04-15

As I posted in another thread, my trading partner and I are looking to start a CTA biz. Assuming things go as planned, I am going to be looking to go heavy with some OH Tax Free Bonds (I think). I've been out of the broker biz for almost 3 years now, so I am kinda rusty on Tax Frees. Anyone care to refresh my memory?Basically - what's the good, bad and ugly with Ohio Tax Free Bonds? What are things to look for and things to stay away from? I can't recall exactly - how does the broker commission effect the yield? Are there any recommended firms that are heavy hitters in the Ohio Tax Free market?Before anyone asks, I have a substantial amount in the markets - whether futures or etf's, but looking to take some of my income from the CTA biz to build and grow a nice tax free ladder. I just want to take some of this cash and know it's tax free and insured.Thanks for the help guys, I appreciate it.

FreeLunch's picture
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Joined: 2007-06-16

My advice would be:  Check out www.etfconnect.com
Do a search on Municipal Income Funds and check out all of them.  The Big Funds are really gobbling up a huge portion of the individual issues.
Plus the closed end muni funds pay monthly.
 
But keep in mind, if you're going forr AAA & insured, you probably aren't going to find a yield of higher than 4.75% on the individuals...

futurestrader's picture
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Joined: 2007-04-15

Thanks Free, I will check that out!

futurestrader's picture
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Joined: 2007-04-15

Another question - are tax free rates in Ohio basically always around the 5% level? What I mean is, what would it take to push those rates higher or lower? Just what the FOMC does?Reason I ask is that when I was selling these things, I was selling 4.5% - 5.00% rates. Is that the range we are looking at most times for sake of discussion?

FreeLunch's picture
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Joined: 2007-06-16

Top push those rates higher, the FOMC will have a lot to do with it with their LINGO and action at their meetings.
If you own bonds now, and rates go up, YOUR bonds looking less attractive...thus, the value of them go down to compensate for the new yields out there.
Did you check out the Closed End Muni Funds?

troll's picture
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Joined: 2004-11-29

Eminence front... Eminence front
It's a put on its a put on it's a put on!
 

AllREIT's picture
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Joined: 2006-12-16

futurestrader wrote:Another question - are tax free rates in Ohio
basically always around the 5% level? What I mean is, what would it
take to push those rates higher or lower? Just what the FOMC does?Reason
I ask is that when I was selling these things, I was selling 4.5% -
5.00% rates. Is that the range we are looking at most times for sake of
discussion?

Well why don't you go look up the historical returns and yields of muni bond indexes?

While your at it, teach yourself about the term structure of interest rates.

futurestrader's picture
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Joined: 2007-04-15

Free - haven't checked them out yet.All - what's the point of a discussion forum if you can't discuss something? I love the 'go look it up yourself' stuff on a forum. Doesn't that defeat the purpose of a public forum? Think about it.

lady_trader's picture
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Joined: 2007-05-12

If you go to Bloomberg.com and look at Market Data and then Rates and Bonds, it gives you a snap shot of the yields on different Fixed Income products.
Here are the yields on a AAA rated Revenue bond (without mark):
2 year-3.94%
5 year-4.08%
10 year-4.33%
20 year-4.72%
The yield curve for most of the year has been inverted, so short term bonds have looked more attractive. Also, the longer the bond, typically the more the sales credit.
There is not a firm that sticks out for OH Muni's to me, but I don't do a lot in that state. What options are you exploring?

troll's picture
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Joined: 2004-11-29

Come on, this string is a fraud.
There is no way that anybody can have been in this business and not know what moves bond yields or think that they are priced like they're 10 cent cigars always around such and such a price.
I don't know what futurestrader's game is but I do know that if he hasn't the grasp of the relationship between treasury yields and muni yields, and or doesn't even know that Treasuries have been sub 5% for the majority of the last 5 years then he's playing some game.
He's got an eminence front, it's a put on!

futurestrader's picture
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Joined: 2007-04-15

Lady - thank you for the info, I do appreciate it. I have not explored any options as this is more of a planning stage now. Whom - the thread is legit. I don't have time to make a thread for the sake of wasting time. I've been out of the broker biz for years now and some things are a little rusty, see my initial post. In addition, I never really learned the intricacies of bond pricing, I just sold whatever had the highest rip. Got it?

Oldproducer's picture
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Joined: 2007-05-14

Whomitmayconcer wrote: Come on, this string is a fraud.
There is no way that anybody can have been in this business and not know what moves bond yields or think that they are priced like they're 10 cent cigars always around such and such a price.
I don't know what futurestrader's game is but I do know that if he hasn't the grasp of the relationship between treasury yields and muni yields, and or doesn't even know that Treasuries have been sub 5% for the majority of the last 5 years then he's playing some game.
He's got an eminence front, it's a put on!

Ding, ding, ding!!! We've got a winner, here!

She's back and Whomit was the first to peg her! It appears that she is back in several new names...

The forum was actually enjoyable for a while.

SSSSSSSSSLLLLLLLLLLLLLAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAPPPPPPPPP!!!!!!

futurestrader's picture
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Joined: 2007-04-15

Hey guys, I hate to burst your bubble, but I'm a real person (male) that just posted a couple things here. Not many people would just randomly come up with a thread about a CTA business. I would ask the forum detectives here to take a look at that thread - you would have to know your sh*t to be able to quote about the ES, tick movements, slippage, commissions, Barclays reporting, etc.Sorry to disappoint, but this thread is legit, and the other one I started.Don't believe me? Moderator - plus confirm that my IP address is unique and not being used by ANY other members of this forum. There may be one other username on my IP that I used when I was still a broker, but I moved as well, so there might not be any.No hiding or anything going on here fellas.Now get back to finding the hot stock of the day for tomorrow or contribute something of substance here.

troll's picture
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Joined: 2004-11-29

Just for the record, I didn't say that you were anyone other than whom you purport to be. I reallly don't care one way or the other who you are, but this thread is a crick of shot!
If you can point to your use of terms such as slippage and ES, tick movemens etcetera as evidence that you know your "sh*t" then I can use the fact that you  know less than nothing about bonds, so such not so such that you are fishing for a fool to explain them to you, as evidence of you're being a phoney.
To what end I have no idea, nor do I really care either.
I may be wrong, it may well be possible that a person can be as clueless as you portray yourself to be and that person may still be able to make successful trades in the futures markets.  But, if you are sincere in what you've written here, then maybe you ought to start off over at Yahoos Am Us chat boards, and then when you've figured out the difference between your ass and your elbow, come on back and we'll talk about those bonds. 

FreeLunch's picture
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Joined: 2007-06-16

HEY FUTURESTRADER.
I THINK YOUR POST WAS A VERY LEGIT QUESTION.
There is nothing wrong asking what you asked, seriously.
You haven't given municipal bonds the time of day in years, and you were a little rusty.  Your investment priorities have been focused elsewhere.
These people criticizing you is just them venting  -  but I can tell you really don't care & I don't blame you.
I hope I helped

futurestrader's picture
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Joined: 2007-04-15

Whom - here's an idea - you don't like my thread, don't waste space posting stuff here jerk. Seriously, get a life.Free - I do appreciate the help.For the Mods - if this board is in fact reserved for the incredibly knowledgeable salesmen only, like Whom, then that needs to be specified upon registration. To my knowledge Whom, when I signed up for the board, NOWHERE did the TOS explain that you must be an Ohio Tax Free Bond Expert before posting in threads.Whom - you truly are a pompous ass. If you think that someone that trades futures full-time should just know about Ohio Tax Free Bonds, then you are completely obtuse to how REAL traders operate. You know, the guys that make the real money and pay schleps like you to sell their product.    I've been on both sides of the table there stock jockey and I can tell you that there's a reason why funds and managers just pay a tiny % to guys like you and keep the rest for themselves.

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