Dazed you must be from the Indy area. They lost a 1mm+ producer about 3 weeks ago.

StanBrownedMyShorts: I’d rather get banged for 5% upfront on a smaller amount than 1.5% forever. (I’d like to get banged another way but your sister doesn’t like men)

You say, “…one family of funds forever…” “…asset allocation” So you’re advocating flipping funds when you can get just as diversified in one family? I guess using multiple families is your neat little way of trying to justify your 1.5% crap fee. ICA, GFA, and CIB kicked the crap out of your “asshole allocation model” and did it for a helluva lot less with a lower beta. The numbers don’t lie. This business is not rocket science no matter how hard you folks try. The reason all these fancy names like ‘alpha’, ‘beta’, ‘asset allocation’, ‘divergence’, is to make the client’s eyes roll and say to himself, “Gee, I am a real dumbass and I can’t believe this guy is ONLY going to charge me 1.5%!!” As much as it hurts your fragile egos, at the end of the day you are still salesmen!! Deal with it!!

Mr Fake-  your true colors are showing.  Read you most recent post to me.  A few posts ago you were saying fee business was too expensive for clients.  Now you are saying you are grossing more on your 5% upfront loads than I am on my fee based business.  Now which side of the argument on now?

Admit you really have no clue about what goes on in this industry.  If you really believe you can diversify in (1) family, well I must admit the $30K per year trainers that have never sold a product at Jones have done one heck of a snow job on you.

I guess flipping from any fund family going into American is also good for the client.  Does this sound familiar?

Real run a 5 yr hypo with First Eagle Global, JH classic Value and Calamos Growth fund… I guarantee it outperforms ICA, GFA, and CIB over the last 5 yrs.

Not sticking up for Real here but, JH Classic (JCRVX) has not even been around 5 years. Calamous can't even hold a candle to caibx over the last 5 years. Although, not a fair asset class to asset class comparison, but you chose it. First Eagle looks good, but I likely could beat it.

That is not the point. It is not the fund that screws up, it is the advisor and or the client. If you want to say "mine beats yours" you will lose. Guess you lost that quarantee. Hope you out more behind your words with your clients than you did here. Oh, I used 5.75% on the funds also. But not your wrap fee.

First Eagle is a closed fund, however, it is a nice one. Calamos is a midcap growth fund even though they like to call it multi cap growth. Comparing that to CIB which is a moderate allocation fund is like comparing apples to oranges. I mean if you want to compare something over the last 5 years i’ll put FKINX against most everything…

Noggin, I was not refuting the funds. Just the lack of homework Tigger showed us before he attacked someone. I agree, the comparisons were not apple to apple

Guest maybe you need to do some homework go to you MF Hypo page and look up JH Classic Value inception date is 6/24/96 by my math that would make it just under 9 yrs old, which I believe is more than 5 still. And you are right the comparison is not apples to apples, the Amer Port is way over weighted in Large Cap Value, the one I posted has Int’l Mid & Small Cap as well as Large Cap Value & Growth.

The 5 yr numbers for ICA, GFA, and CIB are 5.07% and the port I was talking about over the same time averaged 14+% once again what homework didn’t I do. Noggin First Eagle Global is still available only through SMA accounts.

I think the point is at most firms you can offer a wide variety of alternatives while some firms have ALREADY decided what is best for “their” clients.

Un-Truth: I said I am grossing more JUST on the .25 trails you dumbsh*t. Forget the 5%. Hell, 90% of my folks hit a breakpoint. The funds I mentioned kicked the crap out of your wrap crap EVEN with the 5.75%. You all are so wrapped up in your ‘asshole allocation’ but nobody is mentioning beta on these funds. I’ll take the Boone’s and the Klausen’s over Henry Blodgett and Jim Kramer any day. It’s just too simple for you educated idiots.

Hey Wacko, I think “the point” here is that by keeping it simple and not trying to impress your clients with confusing mumbo jumbo, they will have an above average return without getting their asses handed to them in a down market which is what they want to avoid most of all. People are more upset about losing money than they are giddy about making money. I’ve been in this biz long enough to see the entire roller coaster. The only clients I lost (other than the ones I got rid of) were the ones that I refused to let gamble by using my office as an internet casino. I am the most boring advisor I know and my clients love it!!

I hope you're using some on your massive trails money on anger management course, pal

"Hell, 90% of my folks hit a breakpoint."

Yeah, those big spenders you get to give you 50K only have to pay, what, 4.25%?

" I'd rather get banged for 5% upfront on a smaller amount than 1.5% forever." <?:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" />

Just as your customers get break points, so do mine. Very, very few pay 1.5%,(and they don’t pay it on cash, as your clients do, and they pay a lower rate on fixed income than equities, unlike yours) but even if they do, we'll use inexpensive ETFs and be cheaper, outperform your one  fund family portfolio, and be more tax efficient at the same time.

"You say, "....one family of funds forever..." "..asset allocation" So you're advocating flipping funds when you can get just as diversified in one family?"

ROFLMAO, is that Jones koolaide or American Funds koolaide that makes you think the best funds in every asset category can be found in a single family? Also, there's no "flipping" ina fee account, it's a simple, free, exchange.

" I guess using multiple families is your neat little way of trying to justify your 1.5% crap fee."

Silly me, I figured getting the best manager in each category was the goal. Little did I know that selling from the "premier list" was the issue....

" ICA, GFA, and CIB kicked the crap out of your "asshole allocation model" and did it for a helluva lot less with a lower beta."

Is that right? LOL, does the koolaide come in pitchers or do you have blivets? BTW, using beta is laughable. You wouldn't mind high beta if all the volatility was positive. Perhaps it's time to whip out that "how to be a broker" book they gave you and read chapter two.

" The numbers don't lie."

What numbers did you present? Speaking of numbers, what is it your clients pay in management fees to own bonds via a bond fund? How about what they pay on the cash portions of your mutual funds, or what they pay on the bonds in your equity funds? What unwanted capital gains taxes have they been hit with (gains someone else probably made, but they get to pay the taxes on)?

"This business is not rocket science no matter how hard you folks try.” “

Good point. It isn’t as if there are people who’ve won Nobel Prizes writing and researching the subject of investing or anything….

“The reason all these fancy names like 'alpha', 'beta', 'asset allocation', 'divergence', is to make the client's eyes roll and say to himself, "Gee, I am a real dumbass and I can't believe this guy is ONLY going to charge me 1.5%!!"

This is what the "I don't understand all this investin' stuff, so I'll ‘jes sell the three funds I know (and get bonus money to sell) to the folks eating lunch next door at the Subway" types say to themselves so they can sleep at night.... BTW, you figure American Funds is running money for free?

"As much as it hurts your fragile egos, at the end of the day you are still salesmen!! Deal with it!! "

I haven't heard anyone argue with that fact that we sell. The issue has been do we simply sell the same three funds to every poor, unsophisticated "investor" you happen to corner at the neighborhood sandwich shop.

I wonder if those general partners making $4 million a year turn around and invest it entirely into the 7 preferred fund families?  I seem to remember Jones running some venture capital funds and private partnerships for the big shots,... too good for the "lucky 7"? 

Have the General Pootners disclosed their personal portfolios to any of you employees?

Hedge Funds, Private Placements, Limited Partnerships, Private debt-free REITS, Covered Calls, Managed Futures, Hourly, Fee, or Commission....Come on in geeks...the waters fine!  

StanBrownedMyShorts: Bottom line (and too keep it simple until your Prozac kicks in) At the end of the day, my clients know what they own and didn’t take a roller coaster ride. As far as beta, I am only throwing your own crap back at you. Myself, nor my clients, do not give a rip about it. You say "…the best manager.’ Oh yeah? You pick the best manager year in and year out? YOU should get the Nobel in economics. And we all know an economist is a guy that knows a hundred different ways to make love but he can’t find a woman.

I am not saying the best funds are all in one family. I am saying that my clients are very happy with what they’ve owned for the last several years. Many of my clients, myself included, were kind of wondering in late '99 if we were in fact behind the times. The next 3 years proved to us that we were right all along. Again, it boils down to keeping it simple and not reinventing the wheel in order to justify screwing someone with a wrap.

As far a your “best managers”, who are they? Give me a 10 year track record with, and without, fees.

Stan easy on these guys they are working hard to get rid of some sh t bond 30yrs or something paying 5.5%, but don’t worrie mr prospect it has an estate feature.

"At the end of the day, my clients know what they own and didn't take a roller coaster ride.

They have no idea what they own (and neither do you, really) unless they read the fund's quaterly report.

"As far as beta, I am only throwing your own crap back at you.

Hmmm, when did I mention beta?

" Myself, nor my clients, do not give a rip about it."

'jes keep selling them there three funds...

"You say "....the best manager.' Oh yeah? You pick the best manager year in and year out?"

You figure they all work at the same fund family? LOL

" YOU should get the Nobel in economics."

Thanks, but I'll just read and use their work. You, otoh, can 'jes keep selling them three funds....

 "I am not saying the best funds are all in one family."

Oh, then you're saying it's easier for you to 'jes keep selling them three funds and collecting the commissions and trails? Got it...

"I am saying that my clients are very happy with what they've owned for the last several years."

I'm sure the folks eating at the Subway don't mind not doing as well as they should, because it would be too much work for you to learn more, rather than 'jes keep selling them same three funds...

 "The next 3 years proved to us that we were right all along."

Hmm, you were wrong and then you were right? I would explain market cycles, but that would be a waste of time if you're 'jes gonna keep selling them same three funds...

"Again, it boils down to keeping it simple and not reinventing the wheel in order to justify screwing someone with a wrap. "

Poor fella..... so ill informed... so brainwashed....

"As far a your "best managers", who are they? Give me a 10 year track record with, and without, fees."

Nah, you 'jes keep selling them same three funds... we wouldn't want to worry your little head with facts, details etc. You can be as simple as the people you serve, $10k at a time...

"I wonder if those general partners making $4 million a year turn around and invest it entirely into the 7 preferred fund families?"

They ain't much fur that fancy investin' stuff, they 'jes keep buying them same three funds. American Funds don't charge 'em nothing for management and they don't pay no taxes, so it all works out 'jes fine  

Ease up guys… Enough already.

LOT,

I agree with your post? Or, part of it.  Keeping it simple for clients is the way to go.  We do use some more sophisticated products when appropriate. 

While I have a great deal of product at my disposal, I pretty much run my business now the same way I did at jones except I have the ability to offer fee based accounts if I choose.

I currently charge clients 1.25% and since they get the 12b-1 fee back--they end up at 1%.  Accounts over 250k get a discount.  The portfolio's we have assembled through RJ have outperformed the American funds group with a similar beta and a higher alpha.  We tend to use the asset allocation models (a dozen funds each) put together by RJ research.  It's one of the best products I have even seen.  However, American has done well through the bear market and they are a fine family.  We have alot of American on the books as well.

Funny thing about the fee-based accounts.  Clients really like them.  You explain to them about how and why you are compensated--and they love the methodology.  They know the only fees they SEE are the ones I am being paid.  It's all out in the open.  I never thought I would embrace the fee based accounts--but I find myself using them more and more albeit with mostly new clients.