500 or bust?
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[quote=fritz][quote=BukiRob][quote=fritz][quote=BukiRob]Word I heard from a Regional was that deal will have a grid bump for 2 years. There “might” be accelerated vesting of DC. He said for people looking for a “big upfront check” they are going to be unhappy. He said an increase on the hurdle to 26% and a 70% pay out on gross above hurdle. That sounds good until you start running the numbers. That would represent a dramatically lower “award” compared to industry standards and peers.
Fact of the matter is that a broker doing 1 million in 2008 is going to struggle to hit 600 in this market. A broker over at MER doing 1 million got an upfront check for 500K. The MS/SB deal will probably be slightly better but certainly no worse. Since no one knows what the markets will be doing over the next 24 months you can only assume a flat market. Said 1 million dollar producer would get 500k up front and 250k in DC at MER. Here said broker gets a pathetic $193,000 in the form of an increased pay out. Even if they bump DC it still will be at most 250-300 in total award and that is miles short of the 750K the same broker at MER got. Whats really bad is how a deal for the 2008 500k producer. That guy will be luck if he ends up getting 5-7% because of how the hurdle is calculated. The real kick in the pants is what do they do with pay out grid after year #2 (frankly it probably ends in 2010) Are they going to cut pay out by 20%???? Yeah, that will go over real well..... I hope there are parts of this that make this deal better because if this is it, I can't stay at PCG.[/quote] WFC is at 12.00 share. BAC is 3 and change, you keep quoting MER deal, that deal is history and would never happen today. Things have taken a dramatic change for the worse and if anything pays you have to just say OK, or leave and not gripe over it.[/quote] Guess you missed all the press on the MS/SB deal eh? SB set aside 3billion for retention.... so I'd say you're wrong. Additionally Ill buy the whole environment has changed when I see recruiting deals come down. SB just UPPED there deals. UBS is still paying enormous amounts of money. So spare me the management tag line crap.[/quote] The MS/SB is on the backburner from what I hear. And can not compare it completely since MS stock is not in freeefall and there is no talk of nationalizing them. The speed of decline in the banks is telling you the stocks could be wiped out shortly. The preferreds on B of A down to 4.00 yielding 40%..looks like its over. [/quote] Not according to the WSJ its not. They are set to annouce the details before the end of this month. Price of stocks has absolutely nada to do with retention. Wells has a dollar for dollar tax credit for every net operating loss they take. The price of Wells stock has about ZERO to do with the real situation financially with Wells. And yet again you have utterly failed to address the MASSIVE deals for recruiting that are going on this very moment. Heck, even WS has 150% deals to offer for fee based brokers so spare me they dont have the money garbage. They do and they are playing games with excuses about "policital fall out" Its horse crap and if you cant see that you must be a manager who is trying to sell donkey dung to the troops and tell them its french eclairs...Another day and NOTHING !!!
Type screwed in a google search and WFC will come up
It’s mind boggling that they still haven’t come out with anything yet. The morale is horrible. Just blowing up what was, I felt anyway, a good firm and a good place to work. Totally bizarre and terribly disappointing.
[quote=BukiRob][quote=fritz][quote=BukiRob][quote=fritz][quote=BukiRob]Word I heard from a Regional was that deal will have a grid bump for 2 years. There “might” be accelerated vesting of DC. He said for people looking for a “big upfront check” they are going to be unhappy. He said an increase on the hurdle to 26% and a 70% pay out on gross above hurdle. That sounds good until you start running the numbers. That would represent a dramatically lower “award” compared to industry standards and peers.
Fact of the matter is that a broker doing 1 million in 2008 is going to struggle to hit 600 in this market. A broker over at MER doing 1 million got an upfront check for 500K. The MS/SB deal will probably be slightly better but certainly no worse. Since no one knows what the markets will be doing over the next 24 months you can only assume a flat market. Said 1 million dollar producer would get 500k up front and 250k in DC at MER. Here said broker gets a pathetic $193,000 in the form of an increased pay out. Even if they bump DC it still will be at most 250-300 in total award and that is miles short of the 750K the same broker at MER got. Whats really bad is how a deal for the 2008 500k producer. That guy will be luck if he ends up getting 5-7% because of how the hurdle is calculated. The real kick in the pants is what do they do with pay out grid after year #2 (frankly it probably ends in 2010) Are they going to cut pay out by 20%???? Yeah, that will go over real well..... I hope there are parts of this that make this deal better because if this is it, I can't stay at PCG.[/quote] WFC is at 12.00 share. BAC is 3 and change, you keep quoting MER deal, that deal is history and would never happen today. Things have taken a dramatic change for the worse and if anything pays you have to just say OK, or leave and not gripe over it.[/quote] Guess you missed all the press on the MS/SB deal eh? SB set aside 3billion for retention.... so I'd say you're wrong. Additionally Ill buy the whole environment has changed when I see recruiting deals come down. SB just UPPED there deals. UBS is still paying enormous amounts of money. So spare me the management tag line crap.[/quote] The MS/SB is on the backburner from what I hear. And can not compare it completely since MS stock is not in freeefall and there is no talk of nationalizing them. The speed of decline in the banks is telling you the stocks could be wiped out shortly. The preferreds on B of A down to 4.00 yielding 40%..looks like its over. [/quote] Not according to the WSJ its not. They are set to annouce the details before the end of this month. Price of stocks has absolutely nada to do with retention. Wells has a dollar for dollar tax credit for every net operating loss they take. The price of Wells stock has about ZERO to do with the real situation financially with Wells. And yet again you have utterly failed to address the MASSIVE deals for recruiting that are going on this very moment. Heck, even WS has 150% deals to offer for fee based brokers so spare me they dont have the money garbage. They do and they are playing games with excuses about "policital fall out" Its horse crap and if you cant see that you must be a manager who is trying to sell donkey dung to the troops and tell them its french eclairs...[/quote] Not sticking up for WFC at all.. Told you guys I was told in first week of October WFC would pay no retention. Any money that might have come or will come would not be from them, they have no intent to pay for brokerage they did not care to have. Same thing I said earlier MS not in danger of Govt taking them over. Can C say that? BAC? WFC? MS abruptly canceled awards trips the same day of the event last friday..guys were called on their cell phones to NOT check in at the hotel after already arriving in the area. Do not think retention is coming in cash form there in the near future.[quote=Me]Buki,any idea on when/if this is going to be announced???
Thanks[/quote] No idea what so ever. I spoke directly with Jim Hays in response to an email I sent him on last week and he told me then that the announcement would be shortly after the congressional dog and pony show. Obviously, 10 days later that proved to be false. I have absolutely no idea when we will hear something. Frankly, at this point, Id be very surprised if we hear anything tommorrow....[quote=BukiRob] [quote=fritz][quote=BukiRob]Word I heard from a Regional was that deal will have a grid bump for 2 years. There “might” be accelerated vesting of DC. He said for people looking for a “big upfront check” they are going to be unhappy. He said an increase on the hurdle to 26% and a 70% pay out on gross above hurdle. That sounds good until you start running the numbers. That would represent a dramatically lower “award” compared to industry standards and peers.
Fact of the matter is that a broker doing 1 million in 2008 is going to struggle to hit 600 in this market. A broker over at MER doing 1 million got an upfront check for 500K. The MS/SB deal will probably be slightly better but certainly no worse. Since no one knows what the markets will be doing over the next 24 months you can only assume a flat market. Said 1 million dollar producer would get 500k up front and 250k in DC at MER. Here said broker gets a pathetic $193,000 in the form of an increased pay out. Even if they bump DC it still will be at most 250-300 in total award and that is miles short of the 750K the same broker at MER got. Whats really bad is how a deal for the 2008 500k producer. That guy will be luck if he ends up getting 5-7% because of how the hurdle is calculated.
Are SBs and MSs deals the same now? You’ll end up w/the same game…
The real kick in the pants is what do they do with pay out grid after year #2 (frankly it probably ends in 2010) Are they going to cut pay out by 20%??? Yeah, that will go over real well…
I hope there are parts of this that make this deal better because if this is it, I can’t stay at PCG.[/quote]
WFC is at 12.00 share.
BAC is 3 and change, you keep quoting MER deal, that deal is history and would never happen today. Things have taken a dramatic change for the worse and if anything pays you have to just say OK, or leave and not gripe over it.[/quote]
Guess you missed all the press on the MS/SB deal eh? SB set aside 3billion for retention… so I’d say you’re wrong.
Additionally Ill buy the whole environment has changed when I see recruiting deals come down. SB just UPPED their deals. MS is competative with the other two firms.UBS is still paying enormous amounts of money. So spare me the management tag line crap.[/quote]
[quote=fritz][quote=BukiRob][quote=fritz][quote=BukiRob][quote=fritz][quote=BukiRob]Word I heard from a Regional was that deal will have a grid bump for 2 years. There “might” be accelerated vesting of DC. He said for people looking for a “big upfront check” they are going to be unhappy. He said an increase on the hurdle to 26% and a 70% pay out on gross above hurdle. That sounds good until you start running the numbers. That would represent a dramatically lower “award” compared to industry standards and peers.
Fact of the matter is that a broker doing 1 million in 2008 is going to struggle to hit 600 in this market. A broker over at MER doing 1 million got an upfront check for 500K. The MS/SB deal will probably be slightly better but certainly no worse. Since no one knows what the markets will be doing over the next 24 months you can only assume a flat market. Said 1 million dollar producer would get 500k up front and 250k in DC at MER. Here said broker gets a pathetic $193,000 in the form of an increased pay out. Even if they bump DC it still will be at most 250-300 in total award and that is miles short of the 750K the same broker at MER got. Whats really bad is how a deal for the 2008 500k producer. That guy will be luck if he ends up getting 5-7% because of how the hurdle is calculated. The real kick in the pants is what do they do with pay out grid after year #2 (frankly it probably ends in 2010) Are they going to cut pay out by 20%???? Yeah, that will go over real well..... I hope there are parts of this that make this deal better because if this is it, I can't stay at PCG.[/quote] WFC is at 12.00 share. BAC is 3 and change, you keep quoting MER deal, that deal is history and would never happen today. Things have taken a dramatic change for the worse and if anything pays you have to just say OK, or leave and not gripe over it.[/quote] Guess you missed all the press on the MS/SB deal eh? SB set aside 3billion for retention.... so I'd say you're wrong. Additionally Ill buy the whole environment has changed when I see recruiting deals come down. SB just UPPED there deals. UBS is still paying enormous amounts of money. So spare me the management tag line crap.[/quote] The MS/SB is on the backburner from what I hear. And can not compare it completely since MS stock is not in freeefall and there is no talk of nationalizing them. The speed of decline in the banks is telling you the stocks could be wiped out shortly. The preferreds on B of A down to 4.00 yielding 40%..looks like its over. [/quote] Not according to the WSJ its not. They are set to annouce the details before the end of this month. Price of stocks has absolutely nada to do with retention. Wells has a dollar for dollar tax credit for every net operating loss they take. The price of Wells stock has about ZERO to do with the real situation financially with Wells. And yet again you have utterly failed to address the MASSIVE deals for recruiting that are going on this very moment. Heck, even WS has 150% deals to offer for fee based brokers so spare me they dont have the money garbage. They do and they are playing games with excuses about "policital fall out" Its horse crap and if you cant see that you must be a manager who is trying to sell donkey dung to the troops and tell them its french eclairs...[/quote] Not sticking up for WFC at all.. Told you guys I was told in first week of October WFC would pay no retention. Any money that might have come or will come would not be from them, they have no intent to pay for brokerage they did not care to have. Same thing I said earlier MS not in danger of Govt taking them over. Can C say that? BAC? WFC? MS abruptly canceled awards trips the same day of the event last friday..guys were called on their cell phones to NOT check in at the hotel after already arriving in the area. Do not think retention is coming in cash form there in the near future.[/quote] Sorry but that simply does not square with anything in print with both CEO's of both firms openingly saying they are paying retention and it the details will be announced by the end of this month. I will side with what is in print at the WSJ over your "opinion"MS abruptly canceled awards trips the same day of the event last
friday…guys were called on their cell phones to NOT check in at the
hotel after already arriving in the area.
You must be joking?? They flew guys out on trips and then called them telling them they have no place to stay? I cant believe that one. On the other hand maybe I can.
Sorry but I call BS on that.MS abruptly canceled awards trips the same day of the event last friday…guys were called on their cell phones to NOT check in at the hotel after already arriving in the area.
You must be joking?? They flew guys out on trips and then called them telling them they have no place to stay? I cant believe that one. On the other hand maybe I can.
NO it happened...Palm Springs. Most were from the West Coast, I know one of the guys, calls went out just after market close on Friday, anyone who stayed till the close got the word early enough, but many got tracked down on their cell as they arrived in Palm Springs. Ir was a joke, and word went out to the same people that retention was possibly going to have to delayed due to recent events. "Media was waiting at the hotel", that was the alleged reason for everyone that the event was cancelled.MS abruptly canceled awards trips the same day of the event last friday…guys were called on their cell phones to NOT check in at the hotel after already arriving in the area.
You must be joking?? They flew guys out on trips and then called them telling them they have no place to stay? I cant believe that one. On the other hand maybe I can.
Does anybody have any clue as to what is going on? This board is all speculation…period!
[quote=BukiRob][quote=fritz][quote=BukiRob][quote=fritz][quote=BukiRob][quote=fritz][quote=BukiRob]Word I heard from a Regional was that deal will have a grid bump for 2 years. There “might” be accelerated vesting of DC. He said for people looking for a “big upfront check” they are going to be unhappy. He said an increase on the hurdle to 26% and a 70% pay out on gross above hurdle. That sounds good until you start running the numbers. That would represent a dramatically lower “award” compared to industry standards and peers.
Fact of the matter is that a broker doing 1 million in 2008 is going to struggle to hit 600 in this market. A broker over at MER doing 1 million got an upfront check for 500K. The MS/SB deal will probably be slightly better but certainly no worse. Since no one knows what the markets will be doing over the next 24 months you can only assume a flat market. Said 1 million dollar producer would get 500k up front and 250k in DC at MER. Here said broker gets a pathetic $193,000 in the form of an increased pay out. Even if they bump DC it still will be at most 250-300 in total award and that is miles short of the 750K the same broker at MER got. Whats really bad is how a deal for the 2008 500k producer. That guy will be luck if he ends up getting 5-7% because of how the hurdle is calculated. The real kick in the pants is what do they do with pay out grid after year #2 (frankly it probably ends in 2010) Are they going to cut pay out by 20%???? Yeah, that will go over real well..... I hope there are parts of this that make this deal better because if this is it, I can't stay at PCG.[/quote] WFC is at 12.00 share. BAC is 3 and change, you keep quoting MER deal, that deal is history and would never happen today. Things have taken a dramatic change for the worse and if anything pays you have to just say OK, or leave and not gripe over it.[/quote] Guess you missed all the press on the MS/SB deal eh? SB set aside 3billion for retention.... so I'd say you're wrong. Additionally Ill buy the whole environment has changed when I see recruiting deals come down. SB just UPPED there deals. UBS is still paying enormous amounts of money. So spare me the management tag line crap.[/quote] The MS/SB is on the backburner from what I hear. And can not compare it completely since MS stock is not in freeefall and there is no talk of nationalizing them. The speed of decline in the banks is telling you the stocks could be wiped out shortly. The preferreds on B of A down to 4.00 yielding 40%..looks like its over. [/quote] Not according to the WSJ its not. They are set to annouce the details before the end of this month. Price of stocks has absolutely nada to do with retention. Wells has a dollar for dollar tax credit for every net operating loss they take. The price of Wells stock has about ZERO to do with the real situation financially with Wells. And yet again you have utterly failed to address the MASSIVE deals for recruiting that are going on this very moment. Heck, even WS has 150% deals to offer for fee based brokers so spare me they dont have the money garbage. They do and they are playing games with excuses about "policital fall out" Its horse crap and if you cant see that you must be a manager who is trying to sell donkey dung to the troops and tell them its french eclairs...[/quote] Not sticking up for WFC at all.. Told you guys I was told in first week of October WFC would pay no retention. Any money that might have come or will come would not be from them, they have no intent to pay for brokerage they did not care to have. Same thing I said earlier MS not in danger of Govt taking them over. Can C say that? BAC? WFC? MS abruptly canceled awards trips the same day of the event last friday..guys were called on their cell phones to NOT check in at the hotel after already arriving in the area. Do not think retention is coming in cash form there in the near future.[/quote] Sorry but that simply does not square with anything in print with both CEO's of both firms openingly saying they are paying retention and it the details will be announced by the end of this month. I will side with what is in print at the WSJ over your "opinion"[/quote] Would not bet big $$ that nothing comes, who knows maybe it does..but top guys were told last week that retention would probably be held up for awhile...Dont know anything more than that..Nobody here knows anything. What you do know is that WFC hasn’t acknowledged the existence of WS and that speaks volumes.
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