500 or bust?
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They’re not and could care less. They are only trying to leverage the best deal for themselves before bailing on the whole bucket of fish guts.
Still nothing? No announcement of call? Unbelievable !! Something has got to be up. If 100% of you dont have plan B’s in your pocket you are crazy. This situation has gone from rude, to emberassing to just plain mean spirited. How Hays has not jumped on the phone and said “Gentleman, I know I said days not weeks on the phone, and it has been almost four weeks, I apologize, we are working on it” flat out blows my mind.
Thanks Old Pru Guy…Just what we need is another “source”…Hopefully your info (at least about announcement coming) is correct. I know a few others had said that such as bazzbuzz and rep ipsa and still nothing…Not to mention the prognastication by BP.
Not that I am blaming anyone...i just want it all to end. Thanksshouldn’t you be busy moving your accounts? I suprised you have time to even visit this forum since you just changed firms.
if you had a five man team you could probably work smarter as well. Accounts are signing as we speak, dont turn into a hater like others, just make a call, say “Hello Mr. MS manager, I would like to talk”. Otherwise continue to take up the ass by your management. Seriously agebroker5, what the hell is Danny and Hays doing? Do you ver wonder that. What could possibly take 20 weeks. No calls, nothing. Had a friend still at WS tell me today Hays wasnt even in the office today. Probably out interviewing.
The nature of this bizarre situation is that upper level managers are ignoring calls managers they oversee, etc... the only "new" info I heard today is it will be subject to a forgivable loan and that it is "probably" a householding growth incentive of some sort. It's a disaster, although for those growing their business it should be very attainable. And it appears it will be a shot-gun announcement as there is little agreement as to when or how to announce it.
Given the way other things like forefront have been structured, it will be based on the number of Envision Plans you run and how much of your book is managed money. They love to to give the brokers incentives for certain behavior.
No source, just a guess.
Word I heard from a Regional was that deal will have a grid bump for 2 years. There “might” be accelerated vesting of DC. He said for people looking for a “big upfront check” they are going to be unhappy. He said an increase on the hurdle to 26% and a 70% pay out on gross above hurdle. That sounds good until you start running the numbers. That would represent a dramatically lower “award” compared to industry standards and peers.
Fact of the matter is that a broker doing 1 million in 2008 is going to struggle to hit 600 in this market. A broker over at MER doing 1 million got an upfront check for 500K. The MS/SB deal will probably be slightly better but certainly no worse. Since no one knows what the markets will be doing over the next 24 months you can only assume a flat market. Said 1 million dollar producer would get 500k up front and 250k in DC at MER. Here said broker gets a pathetic $193,000 in the form of an increased pay out. Even if they bump DC it still will be at most 250-300 in total award and that is miles short of the 750K the same broker at MER got. Whats really bad is how a deal for the 2008 500k producer. That guy will be luck if he ends up getting 5-7% because of how the hurdle is calculated. The real kick in the pants is what do they do with pay out grid after year #2 (frankly it probably ends in 2010) Are they going to cut pay out by 20%???? Yeah, that will go over real well..... I hope there are parts of this that make this deal better because if this is it, I can't stay at PCG.[quote=BukiRob]Word I heard from a Regional was that deal will have a grid bump for 2 years. There “might” be accelerated vesting of DC. He said for people looking for a “big upfront check” they are going to be unhappy. He said an increase on the hurdle to 26% and a 70% pay out on gross above hurdle. That sounds good until you start running the numbers. That would represent a dramatically lower “award” compared to industry standards and peers.
Fact of the matter is that a broker doing 1 million in 2008 is going to struggle to hit 600 in this market. A broker over at MER doing 1 million got an upfront check for 500K. The MS/SB deal will probably be slightly better but certainly no worse. Since no one knows what the markets will be doing over the next 24 months you can only assume a flat market. Said 1 million dollar producer would get 500k up front and 250k in DC at MER. Here said broker gets a pathetic $193,000 in the form of an increased pay out. Even if they bump DC it still will be at most 250-300 in total award and that is miles short of the 750K the same broker at MER got. Whats really bad is how a deal for the 2008 500k producer. That guy will be luck if he ends up getting 5-7% because of how the hurdle is calculated. The real kick in the pants is what do they do with pay out grid after year #2 (frankly it probably ends in 2010) Are they going to cut pay out by 20%???? Yeah, that will go over real well..... I hope there are parts of this that make this deal better because if this is it, I can't stay at PCG.[/quote] WFC is at 12.00 share. BAC is 3 and change, you keep quoting MER deal, that deal is history and would never happen today. Things have taken a dramatic change for the worse and if anything pays you have to just say OK, or leave and not gripe over it.[quote=fritz][quote=BukiRob]Word I heard from a Regional was that deal will have a grid bump for 2 years. There “might” be accelerated vesting of DC. He said for people looking for a “big upfront check” they are going to be unhappy. He said an increase on the hurdle to 26% and a 70% pay out on gross above hurdle. That sounds good until you start running the numbers. That would represent a dramatically lower “award” compared to industry standards and peers.
Fact of the matter is that a broker doing 1 million in 2008 is going to struggle to hit 600 in this market. A broker over at MER doing 1 million got an upfront check for 500K. The MS/SB deal will probably be slightly better but certainly no worse. Since no one knows what the markets will be doing over the next 24 months you can only assume a flat market. Said 1 million dollar producer would get 500k up front and 250k in DC at MER. Here said broker gets a pathetic $193,000 in the form of an increased pay out. Even if they bump DC it still will be at most 250-300 in total award and that is miles short of the 750K the same broker at MER got. Whats really bad is how a deal for the 2008 500k producer. That guy will be luck if he ends up getting 5-7% because of how the hurdle is calculated. The real kick in the pants is what do they do with pay out grid after year #2 (frankly it probably ends in 2010) Are they going to cut pay out by 20%???? Yeah, that will go over real well..... I hope there are parts of this that make this deal better because if this is it, I can't stay at PCG.[/quote] WFC is at 12.00 share. BAC is 3 and change, you keep quoting MER deal, that deal is history and would never happen today. Things have taken a dramatic change for the worse and if anything pays you have to just say OK, or leave and not gripe over it.[/quote] Guess you missed all the press on the MS/SB deal eh? SB set aside 3billion for retention.... so I'd say you're wrong. Additionally Ill buy the whole environment has changed when I see recruiting deals come down. SB just UPPED their deals. MS is competative with the other two firms.UBS is still paying enormous amounts of money. So spare me the management tag line crap.I have no idea.... perhaps they are screwed? Honestly, if you sit down and run the numbers, the deal may look good on paper but when you do the math its a crappy deal. I am just passing along what I heard from the regional at the end of the day and he was talking to guys who are strictly PCG brokers. No indication of when we would hear anything but even the regional guy is complaining to Sr Mgt. about the lack of silence. He said that is ALL he is doing is answering questions about what is going on and when they are going to say something. Honestly, I have come to the conclusion that they are completely out of touch with FA's. The have absolutely no idea just how bad things have gotten and how much it has effected us. These guys are on salary so they have no idea what a drop of 35% (Q4 2008) add in an additioal drop of 10% and the damage being done is massive. I wonder just how much better communication and information flow would be if Sr Management had a reduction of 40-45% of their salaries... I still firmly believe that Wells has no long term interest in Wachovia Securities and believe that we will be culled off to someone in a JV before the end of this.... "whatever they are doing."Rob-Under the plan you described, what happens to the profit formula’s?
[quote=BukiRob][quote=fritz][quote=BukiRob]Word I heard from a Regional was that deal will have a grid bump for 2 years. There “might” be accelerated vesting of DC. He said for people looking for a “big upfront check” they are going to be unhappy. He said an increase on the hurdle to 26% and a 70% pay out on gross above hurdle. That sounds good until you start running the numbers. That would represent a dramatically lower “award” compared to industry standards and peers.
Fact of the matter is that a broker doing 1 million in 2008 is going to struggle to hit 600 in this market. A broker over at MER doing 1 million got an upfront check for 500K. The MS/SB deal will probably be slightly better but certainly no worse. Since no one knows what the markets will be doing over the next 24 months you can only assume a flat market. Said 1 million dollar producer would get 500k up front and 250k in DC at MER. Here said broker gets a pathetic $193,000 in the form of an increased pay out. Even if they bump DC it still will be at most 250-300 in total award and that is miles short of the 750K the same broker at MER got. Whats really bad is how a deal for the 2008 500k producer. That guy will be luck if he ends up getting 5-7% because of how the hurdle is calculated. The real kick in the pants is what do they do with pay out grid after year #2 (frankly it probably ends in 2010) Are they going to cut pay out by 20%???? Yeah, that will go over real well..... I hope there are parts of this that make this deal better because if this is it, I can't stay at PCG.[/quote] WFC is at 12.00 share. BAC is 3 and change, you keep quoting MER deal, that deal is history and would never happen today. Things have taken a dramatic change for the worse and if anything pays you have to just say OK, or leave and not gripe over it.[/quote] Guess you missed all the press on the MS/SB deal eh? SB set aside 3billion for retention.... so I'd say you're wrong. Additionally Ill buy the whole environment has changed when I see recruiting deals come down. SB just UPPED there deals. UBS is still paying enormous amounts of money. So spare me the management tag line crap.[/quote] The MS/SB is on the backburner from what I hear. And can not compare it completely since MS stock is not in freeefall and there is no talk of nationalizing them. The speed of decline in the banks is telling you the stocks could be wiped out shortly. The preferreds on B of A down to 4.00 yielding 40%..looks like its over.Rob-You think they are going to screw with the 300 or so best producers in the firm.....wait a minute...maybe you are right!!!
This is all crap. I was miss informed yesterday. We have all been miss informed many many times. No one knows what is going on anymore.
what do you mean accelerated vesting of DC? That mean all DC is going to be paid out right away? At this point I’d be happy if they’d let us roll our 401k into IRA. But, no can do on that either.
Two words MORGAN STANLEY. By the way. If you are leaving you can pull out your deferred comp that is already vested before you leave