Safer now that "W" is gone
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[quote=JackBlack]Wet_Blanket:
We will have to agree to disagree. JackBlack. [/quote] You are right. Catholics are the BEST!Wet_Blanket:
Did I say Catholics are the BEST? I must of missed that. Have a great week-end. JackBlack[quote=JackBlack]Wet_Blanket:
Did I say Catholics are the BEST? I must of missed that. Have a great week-end. JackBlack[/quote] You too! See you at mass.Bondguy did you miss this line ? [/quote] No, I didn't miss it. Just trying to find the coincidence. Shooting - Army base - Muslim - terrorist - Obama's Fault That's unhinged[quote=Moraen]Officials: Fort Hood shootings suspect alive; 12 dead - CNN.com Since September 11th, we had no attacks while Bush was in office. I will reserve a little judgement, but since Barack has taken office, and we’ve apologized to the world, look what happens. Not only on our soil, but on our military base?
Just because he has a Muslim name doesn’t mean he was Al Qaeda. But it is just a little bit coincidental.
Bondguy did you miss this line ? [/quote] No, I didn't miss it. Just trying to find the coincidence. Shooting - Army base - Muslim - terrorist - Obama's Fault That's unhinged[/quote][quote=Ron 14][quote=Moraen]Officials: Fort Hood shootings suspect alive; 12 dead - CNN.com Since September 11th, we had no attacks while Bush was in office. I will reserve a little judgement, but since Barack has taken office, and we’ve apologized to the world, look what happens. Not only on our soil, but on our military base?
Just because he has a Muslim name doesn’t mean he was Al Qaeda. But it is just a little bit coincidental.
Unhinged is ignoring what is right in front of your face. Cole bombing, 1993 WTC attack. If we are nice to them, they will be nice back.
Here's the question: Are you more likely to commit an act of terror if you might be tortured, or less?
We have made overtures to the Muslim world with Obama as our leader (btw- I think he is fundamentally a good man, but one ill-equipped to deal with being POTUS). We have said it is wrong to torture and have released files pertaining to it and thus have gotten people up in arms.
We are no longer safe. The terrorists do not fear us. You can say what you want, but Obama is talking about letting the Taliban go! Fundamentalist Muslims feared us when Bush was president. That much I know.
They don't any longer. They know we will not use force.
Unhinged is not seeing what is right in front of you face.
Keep denying it. I pray for your sake the next attack isn't in your backyard.
He'll be screwed, Bondguy does not think you should carry guns ... you can beat the evil-doers off with a big fat yeild.
Moraen:
First, I want to thank you for your service to our country. I have to disagree with you about torture. If it is unlawful for someone to torture a <?: prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" />US citizen, then it should be unlawful to torture someone who is not a US citizen. Your argument that people are less likely to attack us if we torture is not relevant. Just because something is effective does not make if moral. Would you kill the infant son of a terrorist as punishment? That might stop a few attacks, but would it be moral? The US is the greatest country in the world. We are better then the terrorist’s. If we torture people it degrades us, it brings us down to the terrorist’s level. It may allow us to win the battle, but in my opinion it may cause use to lose the war. <?: prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" />
There is no such thing as fairness in this war. They don't follow rules that are "fair" or "moral". Read the book Lone Survivor and ask Marcus Luttrell about fairness. This war is about protecting freedom. Ok, we waterboard, they cut off heads with swords. Take your pick.
[quote=Moraen]
Bondguy did you miss this line ? [/quote] No, I didn't miss it. Just trying to find the coincidence. Shooting - Army base - Muslim - terrorist - Obama's Fault That's unhinged[/quote]Unhinged is ignoring what is right in front of your face. Cole bombing, 1993 WTC attack. If we are nice to them, they will be nice back.
Here's the question: Are you more likely to commit an act of terror if you might be tortured, or less?
We have made overtures to the Muslim world with Obama as our leader (btw- I think he is fundamentally a good man, but one ill-equipped to deal with being POTUS). We have said it is wrong to torture and have released files pertaining to it and thus have gotten people up in arms.
We are no longer safe. The terrorists do not fear us. You can say what you want, but Obama is talking about letting the Taliban go! Fundamentalist Muslims feared us when Bush was president. That much I know.
They don't any longer. They know we will not use force.
Unhinged is not seeing what is right in front of you face.
Keep denying it. I pray for your sake the next attack isn't in your backyard.
[/quote] Moraen, you're throwing in a lot stuff here that isn't relavent to the Ft Hood shootings. So far, in texas, all we have is a mentally ill man. Nothing more. The terrorist weren't afraid of us then, now, or in the future. The threat of torture means nothing. These people are willing to die for what they believe in. So, to answer your question, the threat of torture plays no part in the question. Again, these people don't care if you bomb them into a thousand tiny pieces. Every piece will try to kill you. That's what makes the threat so diabolical. The big stick defense policy that has worked countless times in the past is useless against this group. We tell NK that we'll bomb them back to the stone age if they try any sh*t, they back off. We tell the taliban the same thing, they say "Bring it!" Bill mawr got fired from ABC after he said "Say what you will about these terroist, but they've got balls!" he said that referring to their abilty to kill themselves by piloting jets into buildings. Regardless of your opinion of Mawr, he's right. They just don't respect life on any level. Your alarmist attitude is more than a little over the top. Just because i don't see the terrorist - anti obama connection doesn't mean i'm a pacifist. I'm sure this hell fire and brimstone crap plays just fine in your part of the country to fire up the anti obama sentiment, but here in the NE we actually need proof before we start labeling people terrorist. We then take action. We have a thing here called the justice system. Maybe you've heard about it? And if you think we're soft, not paying attention, think again! The Ft Dix five are all cooling their little terrorist heels in the pen. So, we don't like terrorist any more than you folks do, we just don't see them in every mosque, or every Muslim. As for ridding the world of terrorist? Hmm? Your boy Bush had a legit shot at getting bin laden. But he invaded iraq instead. Bin laden and the Taliban got back burnered and both got away. And now we're paying for it. Just so i know, what is it that i'm denying? Not seeing a terrorist attack because some nut job shot up an army base? How about orlando today? I see a man pushed to the edge, am i not seeing something right in front of my face?
Ron:
Two wrongs do not make a right. I believe it is wrong when the terrorist behead someone. I believe it is wrong when we waterboard someone. The <?: prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" />United State’s has imprisoned people for waterboarding US citizens.
Yukio Asano was given a 15-year sentence for waterboarding after WWII.
War is about breaking the spirit and will of your enemy. You don’t do that by fighting with rules. Unleash hell … That’s what I expect of my military, cia, nsa, and every other agency. Make no mistake, we are at war. UNLEASH HELL!
Rape their wives, kill their children, put their heads on pikes. You damn hippie liberals can read all the books you want but unless you’ve put on the uniform you opinion means JACK to me.
One other thing- pinning the Cole non response on Clinton. Due process was taking place. That is, an investigation, to get it right. By the time clinton left office the final report had not been written. There was only prelimiary evidence that Al-Qaeda was involved. Only after clinton left office was there enough evidence to retaliate. Of course clinton could have gone off half c***ed and attacked every arab country hoping one of them held the terrorist. Rightly so, he didn’t do that.
[quote=BondGuy]One other thing- pinning the Cole non response on Clinton. Due process was taking place. That is, an investigation, to get it right. By the time clinton left office the final report had not been written. There was only prelimiary evidence that Al-Qaeda was involved. Only after clinton left office was there enough evidence to retaliate. Of course clinton could have gone off half c***ed and attacked every arab country hoping one of them held the terrorist. Rightly so, he didn’t do that. [/quote]
Classic!
The exact moment the attack was reported. THE MOMENT. I knew who was responsible. You don’t need a report to tell you a chick is fat.
Thankfully, the people who run this country see it differently than do you. Clinton knew who did it. We all knew. But knowing it and being able to do something- two different things. The attackers weren't flying slow airplanes with Japanese flags painted on them. A little more evidence than fundementalist claiming responsibility was needed. In the end, with all the necessary red tape filed away, retaliation fell to Bush, your guy, who did nothing. Oh, yeah wait a minute that's wrong. He did do something. He ignored the best expert in the country, the one guy who could tell him exactly where bin laden was and how to get him. Butttt, Bin laden, not even on the radar screen. A fly , a pest, not to be taken seriously, dealt with in due time as there were bigger fish to fry. My belief is that we are not safe from terrorist. but not because of obama or any president at this point. This country isn't sealed tight. it's only a matter of time. Sooner or later we're in for it again. And all the torture in the world isn't going to stop it. nor will putting their heads on stakes or bombing them into the next century. There aren't enough bombs or torture chambers on the planet to fight ideaology. And that's the enemy. What bomb destroys an idea? What is the prevailing opinion of Americans held by the populations of middle eastern countries? more specifcally, what is the opinion held by young men in these countries? It's not positive. It wasn't positive before the Iraq war and what ever good will had, well, we drove a stake through that puppy with the Iraq debacle. We are almost universally hated by the one group we needed to reach to turn the war on terrorism around. Most importantly, this war for hearts and minds is being lost along its most important front, Afghanistan. thus the resurgent Taliban. Until that war is won, the hearts and minds battle, when it comes to terrorism are asses are smoked. It's only a matter of time. And no. I don't like one bit. You can disagree with me on this but so you know, this was the assessment from the Bush Whitehouse. To win the war on terror is to win the battle for hearts and minds. that simple and that hard. About torture, you guys keep tossing it in as a deterrent. Torture is not a deterrent. It's an information gathering tool.[quote=BondGuy]One other thing- pinning the Cole non response on Clinton. Due process was taking place. That is, an investigation, to get it right. By the time clinton left office the final report had not been written. There was only prelimiary evidence that Al-Qaeda was involved. Only after clinton left office was there enough evidence to retaliate. Of course clinton could have gone off half c***ed and attacked every arab country hoping one of them held the terrorist. Rightly so, he didn’t do that. [/quote]
Classic!
The exact moment the attack was reported. THE MOMENT. I knew who was responsible. You don’t need a report to tell you a chick is fat.
If you can’t say it in three sentences it’s not worth saying.
If our leaders had thought like me we would not have had 9/11 or the Iraq war. For groups without countries you simply cut the head off the chicken. Ponder that for a bit.
Did you know that only 8% of voters in New York City voted for George Bush in 2004? (Even after NY hosted the RNC convention)
When Bush was “deer in the headlights” on 9/11, if he was really planning his counter-attack…Why wasn’t he on the phone?
I think most people who love the military, love Bush. When they were under Clinton, they didn’t get to kill anyone.
I think Obama is doing a great job.
It really pissed me off that Bush took so many vacation days.
I do not believe war will ever break the spirit of my enemy…because I believe no military force could ever break my spirit.
I believe people who have unwavering support for a single political party are the enemy of political progress.
[quote=Still@jones]Did you know that only 8% of voters in New York City voted for George Bush in 2004? (Even after NY hosted the RNC convention)
When Bush was “deer in the headlights” on 9/11, if he was really planning his counter-attack…Why wasn’t he on the phone?
I think most people who love the military, love Bush. When they were under Clinton, they didn’t get to kill anyone.
I think Obama is doing a great job.
It really pissed me off that Bush took so many vacation days.
I do not believe war will ever break the spirit of my enemy…because I believe no military force could ever break my spirit.
I believe people who have unwavering support for a single political party are the enemy of political progress.
[/quote]
Shut up http://news.yahoo.com/s/politico/20091027/pl_politico/28764
[quote=BondGuy]
Thankfully, the people who run this country see it differently than do you. Clinton knew who did it. We all knew. But knowing it and being able to do something- two different things. The attackers weren't flying slow airplanes with Japanese flags painted on them. A little more evidence than fundementalist claiming responsibility was needed. In the end, with all the necessary red tape filed away, retaliation fell to Bush, your guy, who did nothing. Oh, yeah wait a minute that's wrong. He did do something. He ignored the best expert in the country, the one guy who could tell him exactly where bin laden was and how to get him. Butttt, Bin laden, not even on the radar screen. A fly , a pest, not to be taken seriously, dealt with in due time as there were bigger fish to fry. [/quote] I guess that explains the difference between Clinton and Bush. Bush knew who had WMDs, stock piles of chemical weapons, etc. We all knew. But Bush vindicated his father and changed Iraq forever. He didn't give a damn about waiting for proof. He has kept the majority of the war on terrorism on their turf and off ours and for that I commend him.