I have to chime in here.  This guy at Fort Hood was a coward and an insult to all those who have earned their commission as Officers.  This guy should have been killed and I don’t understand why they spent resources to keep him alive.  But this guy is a terrorist just as much as SGT John Russell who attacked his own earlier this year at Camp Liberty in Baghdad. 

Here’s a newsflash.  Everybody knows that I was in the Army (duh, my id gave that away).  I’m also an American Muslim myself.  I was born and raised here in the states and have plenty of other family members who served as well.  Colin Powell mentioned CPL Kareem Khan who was killed in combat in Iraq and there are over 10,000 American Muslims in the Armed forces.  Obviously some warning signs were missed with this guy but the talk of expelling Muslims from the military and the country is ridiculous.  I dare anyone to question my patriotism.  When my unit got involved in our first firefight, guess who was the first one to open up? When it came to interrogating people on the streets after my vehicle got hit with the second IED in as many weeks, who do you think roughed up these guys on the streets first? When I got my top secret clearance, it took longer than my colleagues and I completely understood that; nothing wrong with that.  I think there should be more background searches for Muslim soldiers when they first enlist just like there should be more background searches for all races to make sure we’re not helping to train gangmembers (crips, bloods, skinheads, etc.). 

This guy was sick, plain and simple.  This guy should die, plain and simple.  But please do not demonize all Muslims because there have been plenty of non-Muslims who kill “because God told them to” and there is no mention of Christian or Jewish terrorists. 

I’m so taken aback with this ass clown.  When we got ready for
deployment doing the same things the victims were doing, we were
nervous but we felt safe being that we were on our military post.  When
we got back from Iraq, we did the same things and felt such a sigh of
relief that no one was shooting at us anymore.  I can’t even imagine
how that would have felt while we were getting our updated
immunizations and records that some coward came in shooting. 
Unbelievable . . . I hope this guy dies in his hospital bed.  

[quote=hotair1]

[quote=Still@jones]Did you know that only 8% of voters in New York City voted for George Bush in 2004? (Even after NY hosted the RNC convention)

When Bush was “deer in the headlights” on 9/11, if he was really planning his counter-attack…Why wasn’t he on the phone?

I think most people who love the military, love Bush. When they were under Clinton, they didn’t get to kill anyone.

I think Obama is doing a great job.

It really pissed me off that Bush took so many vacation days.

I do not believe war will ever break the spirit of my enemy…because I believe no military force could ever break my spirit.

I believe people who have unwavering support for a single political party are the enemy of political progress. 
[/quote]

Shut up    http://news.yahoo.com/s/politico/20091027/pl_politico/28764
[/quote]

Come on…the guy was holed up at his “ranch” for about 1/4 of his presidency…

See, I can respect what Army has to say, although I will disagree with him. One of our finest soldiers was Muslim. A right bastard in a fight. He even saved my life once.



He also didn’t yell Alluah Akbar before the fight. He was killing for his country. He did his job, and did it well, and I still don’t know how much it tore him up to kill fellow Muslims. I, for one, have no problem slaughtering Catholics (especially the ones who prey on little kids).



I would argue, however, that John Russell was a terrorist as much as any other. And that his intent was to reduce the fighting effectiveness of the United States Army against a Muslim country. I feel it is the same with this ass clown.

One other thing- pinning the Cole non response on Clinton. Due process was taking place. That is, an investigation, to get it right. By the time clinton left office the final report had not been written. There was only prelimiary evidence that Al-Qaeda was involved. Only after clinton left office was there enough evidence to retaliate. Of course clinton could have gone off half c***ed and attacked every arab country hoping one of them held the terrorist. Rightly so, he didn’t do that.

BG - you keep waiting for proof, I will keep my family safe by paying more attention to Muslims, red-haired Irishmen, Hispanic thugs, black thugs, white thugs, Catholic priests, pedophile-looking guys at the grocery store and men who start at my wife.



I will keep my knife sharp, and my wits about me.



I will kill anybody who tries to harm them. No due process. But a ton of justice.

[quote=Moraen]…his intent was to reduce the fighting effectiveness of the United States Army…[/quote]

All good stuff Morean, however I have to disagree with this point for both Russell and the Fort Hood guy. I think they just went nutz…

[quote=Moraen]See, I can respect what Army has to say, although I will
disagree with him. One of our finest soldiers was Muslim. A right
bastard in a fight. He even saved my life once.



He also didn’t yell Alluah Akbar before the fight. He was killing
for his country. He did his job, and did it well, and I still don’t
know how much it tore him up to kill fellow Muslims. I, for one, have
no problem slaughtering Catholics (especially the ones who prey on
little kids).


I would argue, however, that John Russell was a terrorist as much
as any other. And that his intent was to reduce the fighting
effectiveness of the United States Army against a Muslim country. I
feel it is the same with this ass clown.[/quote]



Moraen, my point was to say that John Russell was a terrorist as well
but that’s not what the MSM have labeled him as.  The VA Tech killer
was a terrorist as well but he wasn’t labeled that; he was labeled just
a mass murderer. 



And lastly, the Commanding General of Fort Hood has not confirmed the
reports of him yelling Allahu Akbar.  If the CG and the FBI confirm
that, then I’ll believe it.  I’m not saying that he didn’t say that but
unconfirmed reports don’t mean much to me.  For now, we know this guy
is a scumbag and a terrorist. 

 

They knew where bin Laden was. This was before he was hiding.

bin Laden went in to hiding prior to 9/11. As for Bush having eight years to find him - You could put 500,000 troops in those mountains and all you would get would be a few killed soldiers who fell off the mountain.

Anybody who has been mountain climbing knows what I’m talking about - try doing that with 80 - 120 pounds of gear. Good luck.

[quote=army13A] [quote=Moraen]See, I can respect what Army has to say, although I will

disagree with him. One of our finest soldiers was Muslim. A right

bastard in a fight. He even saved my life once.



He also didn’t yell Alluah Akbar before the fight. He was killing

for his country. He did his job, and did it well, and I still don’t

know how much it tore him up to kill fellow Muslims. I, for one, have

no problem slaughtering Catholics (especially the ones who prey on

little kids).

I would argue, however, that John Russell was a terrorist as much

as any other. And that his intent was to reduce the fighting

effectiveness of the United States Army against a Muslim country. I

feel it is the same with this ass clown.[/quote]



Moraen, my point was to say that John Russell was a terrorist as well

but that’s not what the MSM have labeled him as. The VA Tech killer

was a terrorist as well but he wasn’t labeled that; he was labeled just

a mass murderer.



And lastly, the Commanding General of Fort Hood has not confirmed the

reports of him yelling Allahu Akbar. If the CG and the FBI confirm

that, then I’ll believe it. I’m not saying that he didn’t say that but

unconfirmed reports don’t mean much to me. For now, we know this guy

is a scumbag and a terrorist.

[/quote]



Yep. My first post said I would reserve judgement until all of the facts were known. Right now, it just looks suspicious, and we should act accordingly. Was it part of a larger attack? Was it a lone crazy? What about Ft. Bragg, Ft. Drum, Ft. Carson? It doesn’t appear coordinated, but attacks keep gaining in sophistication.



BG - bin Laden was actually in Kabul up until May of 2001. The Taliban (a disgusting organization who treats women like crap) were buddies with him. Mullah Omar had a disagreement with bin Laden in May and that’s when he took to the mountains. Bush had five months to nab him (and should have - should have been a priority) but we were in the middle of a recession at the time.



BG - You are right, it can be spun many different ways. I know what others in the counterterrorism, Army intel people have told me as far as what has happened in the past.



Here’s another nugget that most people may not know about. The United flight that was taken over by Americans - plans showed that it was supposed to crash in to the inner ring of the Pentagon (not Capital HIll or the White House) in order to trap those inside.



That one was from THE top counterintelligence operative from 1997-2003 (notice I did not say top counterintelligence official).



The VT killer was a terrorist, and so was the guy in Chapel Hill who killed people with his car. The intent was to kill ROTC students in the latter case. A clear attack on our nation’s military. This incident appears so as well. Time will tell.



If I am wrong, I have no problem admitting and apologizing. But like I said, I reserved judgement. What pisses me off is that they had been watching the guy for six months (the FBI DID confirm that).



BG - one final thing since I was all over the place on this post. 500k troops is NOT better than 15k. And we had more than that at first. If you are combing the mountains with that many troops, it is disaster waiting to strike.



Personally, you should have battalions of 10th Mountain rotating through with SF teams (and SEALS I guess, possibly Combat Controllers to call in air strikes). Smaller teams have a much better chance.



You also have to consider, the more combat troops you send (artillery, armor, infantry), the more support you have to send.

BG - you keep waiting for proof, I will keep my family safe by paying more attention to Muslims, red-haired Irishmen, Hispanic thugs, black thugs, white thugs, Catholic priests, pedophile-looking guys at the grocery store and men who start at my wife.

I will keep my knife sharp, and my wits about me.

I will kill anybody who tries to harm them. No due process. But a ton of justice.

Here is something else about the love affair with Barack. He is in Washington instead of Texas right now. Why? There is no way you can deny that had this been Bush’s watch he would have been crucified. Why isn’t he visiting with the families? Not saying he should, but look at the double standard.

[quote=Moraen] [quote=army13A] [quote=Moraen]See, I can respect what Army has to say, although I will

disagree with him. One of our finest soldiers was Muslim. A right

bastard in a fight. He even saved my life once.



He also didn’t yell Alluah Akbar before the fight. He was killing

for his country. He did his job, and did it well, and I still don’t

know how much it tore him up to kill fellow Muslims. I, for one, have

no problem slaughtering Catholics (especially the ones who prey on

little kids).

I would argue, however, that John Russell was a terrorist as much

as any other. And that his intent was to reduce the fighting

effectiveness of the United States Army against a Muslim country. I

feel it is the same with this ass clown.[/quote]



Moraen, my point was to say that John Russell was a terrorist as well

but that’s not what the MSM have labeled him as.  The VA Tech killer

was a terrorist as well but he wasn’t labeled that; he was labeled just

a mass murderer. 



And lastly, the Commanding General of Fort Hood has not confirmed the

reports of him yelling Allahu Akbar.  If the CG and the FBI confirm

that, then I’ll believe it.  I’m not saying that he didn’t say that but

unconfirmed reports don’t mean much to me.  For now, we know this guy

is a scumbag and a terrorist. 

[/quote]



Yep. My first post said I would reserve judgement until all of the facts were known. Right now, it just looks suspicious, and we should act accordingly. Was it part of a larger attack? Was it a lone crazy? What about Ft. Bragg, Ft. Drum, Ft. Carson? It doesn’t appear coordinated, but attacks keep gaining in sophistication.



BG - bin Laden was actually in Kabul up until May of 2001. The Taliban (a disgusting organization who treats women like crap) were buddies with him. Mullah Omar had a disagreement with bin Laden in May and that’s when he took to the mountains. Bush had five months to nab him (and should have - should have been a priority) but we were in the middle of a recession at the time.



BG - You are right, it can be spun many different ways. I know what others in the counterterrorism, Army intel people have told me as far as what has happened in the past.



Here’s another nugget that most people may not know about. The United flight that was taken over by Americans - plans showed that it was supposed to crash in to the inner ring of the Pentagon (not Capital HIll or the White House) in order to trap those inside.



That one was from THE top counterintelligence operative from 1997-2003 (notice I did not say top counterintelligence official).



The VT killer was a terrorist, and so was the guy in Chapel Hill who killed people with his car. The intent was to kill ROTC students in the latter case. A clear attack on our nation’s military. This incident appears so as well. Time will tell.



If I am wrong, I have no problem admitting and apologizing. But like I said, I reserved judgement. What pisses me off is that they had been watching the guy for six months (the FBI DID confirm that).[/quote]

That’s what pisses me off too.  The FBI was watching him and nothing happened? Also all of these former colleagues and classmates NOW coming out about his views and what not.  No one thought to throw up a serious red flag? That’s why some of it is hard to believe.  Take for example that retired COL that Fox interviewed.  He made some accusations about what this nutjob said.  “Strapping up and bombing Times Square? Raising up against the aggressors”? He heard there was an investigation but he retired and didn’t think of it anymore? Me personally, if I knew of an Officer who was talking that kind of stuff out in the open, I wouldn’t stop banging down the chain of command until there was some serious investigations.  Add on top of the fact that his background, I wouldn’t just “retire” and be like “oh well, they’ll deal with it”.  It doesn’t add up. 

Fox, like MSNBC, has a clear history of only talking about things that reinforce their point of view.  That’s why I try to get my info from various sources (all news media, friends “in the know” and elsewhere).

Moraen- on the troops. The point is the effort to get bin laden was half -assed. I remember the number as 15K, but even if it was 25k it doesn't matter. The outcome was the same- failure. What first rate army turns over the most important job to tribal leaders? That's what we did when we beleived we had Osama cornered. it was a joke! We couldn't committ more troops to Afghanistan because of the pending deployment to iraq and our leaders lack of success in lacing together a meaningful coalition. As I've said, getting Bin Laden was back burner.

[quote=BondGuy]

Moraen- on the troops. The point is the effort to get bin laden was half -assed. I remember the number as 15K, but even if it was 25k it doesn’t matter. The outcome was the same- failure. What first rate army turns over the most important job to tribal leaders? That’s what we did when we beleived we had Osama cornered. it was a joke! We couldn’t committ more troops to Afghanistan because of the pending deployment to iraq and our leaders lack of success in lacing together a meaningful coalition. As I’ve said, getting Bin Laden was back burner.

getting the truth without the spin is harder and harder. Fox way too right, MSNBC ridiculously left, Cnn left of center,but usually good with the facts before the spin machine starts. ABC OK, usually. I read a lot as well. But it's tough.

I think some folks posting on this thread would benefit for doing a little reading on Alexander the Great and his time in Afghanistan. You’d also do yourself a favor to see how long the Marshall Plan took to implement. Eight years in a drop in the bucket in the well of history.  You have the benefit of hindsight with respect to battles yes … you are Generals in a forum.

[quote=BondGuy]