What was your eye opener event at Jones?
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[quote=The Truth]
I remember a story
[/quote]
Hi Truth,
At least now you are willing to admit right up front that whatever you post is a "story." What was the last story you told? Oh yeah, that's right, something about having a conversation with an imaginary Jones client about the free switch letter. Of course, that conversation was had MONTHS before there ever was a free switch letter. As I said before, go back to your hole. Or at least come up with a new login name.
Player:
...in fact yesterday I saw a guy holding a sign on the freeway exit asking for money and I swear he was waring my Jones hat and sweat shirt.........how the times have changed
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Maybe he was really a broker and the "door-to-door" marketing strategy just wasn't working for him, so he's testing a new marketing strategy. Didn't see him holding any mutual fund brochures, did you?
As a young rookie broker--Bartow helped me a good bit. While he wasn't my favorite person either, I learned alot from him. While his methods may have been questionable--they helped me become better and in some way pushed me to operate at the high level I do today.
If I had his address I would gladly send him a handwritten thankyou note.
I would send him a book on common etiquette (sp?) and a bottle of scotch to mellow him out a bit.
[quote=zacko]
As a young rookie broker--Bartow helped me a good bit. While he wasn't my favorite person either, I learned alot from him. While his methods may have been questionable--they helped me become better and in some way pushed me to operate at the high level I do today.
If I had his address I would gladly send him a handwritten thankyou note.
[/quote]
Zacko,
He is with American Funds, check with your whoresaler with American.
I appreciated Tom's work ethic, and he could be very hard on you just like a DI, however, once you hit 10K net he was your best friend, he liked success, and at Jones that was 10K net or 25K gross, he just expected more of you, they screwed-=up when he left.
Like the song the day the music died, or the day the recipe died
Jones folk are kinda different in regards to the pride they have in how they do what is best for the client. Strange in this dirty industry isn't it?
We know we do it right...lots of the other firms preach (push)annuities, wrap accounts, market timing/churning. We preach annuities w/out surrender fees and half the expenses to the client. Pays us less money, but better for the customer. Hmmm.... No fee based accounts just buy your mutual funds with A share expenses and hold for 20 years. Hmmm...do the math on A share versus fee based account over 20 years and see which comes out better for the client. Math doesn't lie if you don't believe me. Check the SEC website for a mutual fund cost calculator. I got to figuring what I needed in C shares or a wrap account versus having a book of A shares. Wrap fee broker or annuity broker gets just as much in trails from $20M under management as someone that had $80M in A share funds. Strange huh. Is that best for the client or the broker? My thoughts are that there are so many people on here that leave Jones in the first few years to go somewhere else because they can't hack it the ethical way. The "say" they make more money at the new firm. But it is strange the payout portion is much the same. Hmm... If they make more money it is usually because they do things the easier less client friendly way by selling things that pay themselves more money. Annuities, wraps, and market timing (churning) They get on here and bash the firm. I think the Jones guys and gals are just proud that they have been able to build a sound ethical business the client friendly way. Yep, there are other firms with brokers/advisors that do it the "right way" for the client but not may other firms that structure their business model the "right way" for the client. I think the Jones folk are just taking up for themselves and the ethical businesses that most Jones folks have built.
Why don't you call your friends that have left the firm say over a year ago. Ask them what their ROA is at the new firm compared to what they had at Jones. This might change your mind when you mentioned brokers "say" them make more money and this must be the result of churning. Just trying to help you out.
My thoughts are that there are so many people on here that leave Jones in the first few years to go somewhere else because they can't hack it the ethical way. The "say" they make more money at the new firm. But it is strange the payout portion is much the same. Hmm... If they make more money it is usually because they do things the easier less client friendly way by selling things that pay themselves more money.
My thoughts are that you are so full of bulls#*t your eyes are turning brown.
I make more money as an Independent than I ever did as a captive agent at Jones for several reasons that have nothing to do with being "unethical". The payout portion is not the same. I have much higher payout on the brokerage side, approximately double the payout when at Jones, and a 100% payout on life insurance products. I am not restricted in the life insurance and long term care products and I can also offer medicare supplemental coverage (can you?). My cost of doing business is LESS than when at Jones and is amortizing out nicely if you consider the thousands of dollars I had to spend the first year to set up a professional office. I can control my cost of doing business. I recently hired a part time office assistant and I can decide how much to pay and how many hours she works.
And wtf is this client friendly crappola? I am able to be more client friendly by being able to concentrate on my clients needs instead of being forced to push the bond or stock dejour at everyone. Instead of an arbitrary "25 calls/contacts a day" I can decide to contact 25 or 2 or any other number I feel like. Obviously if I sit around and don't make contacts and prospecting calls I am not doing myself or my clients any good. BUT my contacts instead of being "sales" (If you have the money available I think you should buy some TODAY) calls, my appointments are in depth analysis of all of my client's needs, goals, insurance coverages and investments. Because I am not under the hammer from some corporate office to make a nut each month, I don't feel the pressure to SELL SELL SELL products. My clients and prospects also can tell that I am not out to SELL them something. If you don't believe that they can tell the difference you are fooling yourself. The best business happens when you let it come naturally.
You should read some Og Mandino. Here are a few quotes.
"Beginning today, treat everyone you meet as if they were going to be dead by midnight. Extend to them all the care, kindness and understanding you can muster, and do it with no thought of any reward. Your life will never be the same again
Take the attitude of a student, never be too big to ask questions, never know too much to learn something new.
To do anything truly worth doing, I must not stand back shivering and thinking of the cold and danger, but jump in with gusto and scramble through as well as I can.
You never know what events are going to transpire to get you home.
You Jones guys need to get over this penis..... ooops I mean firm envy. The mine is bigger and better than yours mentality. First of all get it through your head (and I do mean the one on top of your shoulders), if I am independent I don't work for a firm. The b/d I work through is immaterial to my clients and to me. I use a DBA and have a minor role on my letterhead and so on for the b/d.
There are many ethical brokers at Jones. The objection is this annoying holier than thou attitude that they come across with. As if they hold a monopoly on being ethical. Here iare some more definitions for Webster.
Fanatical marked by excessive enthusiasm and often intense uncritical devotion <they're fanatic about politics>
Sanctimonious affecting piousness : hypocritically devout; also : indicative of affected piousness
I don't like fanatics and sanctimonious pricks in politics, religion and especially in the workplace.
Looney--
Great post--yet again. Why do I get the feeling that you're kind of hot, too. Does hubby-wubby know what he's holding on to?
Babbling Looney:
You make some good points. I realize independents will make more money. What I meant was that people moving from Jones to a real broker dealers, not independents. Everyone knows you guys make more money. But lack or resources, lack of stock analysts, lack of many things make it less good for clients (usually). Some clients it won't matter, the normal mutual fund DCAs and some normal rollovers, etc. But when comes to getting stock advice, CMOs, getting good supply of bonds, and service from whole salers, it just makes sense that a large broker dealer is going to have more resources and usually better for clients. It sounds like you must have washed out early if you were under the gun for the 25 contacts per day.
Boy, I really feel empty going to work without Dave Powers and Art Russell on my side.
And for the final time, you freakin' stupid jackass, not everyone "washes out." Most people on this board went on to be far more successful, and make more money than they ever did under the employ of Jones. I consider myself about 1/2 to 3/4 time now in this business, and I made more money in my "other business" in 2005 than I ever did in a year at Jones. And, right now if I chose to sell my book, I'd probably get 300K if I gave the thing away. How much would you get if you left Jones to go back to driving the Schwann truck?
You make some good points. I realize independents will make more money. What I meant was that people moving from Jones to a real broker dealers, not independents.
A real broker dealer!!! How condescending and supercilious can you be? Look it up. I'm tired of giving you guys definitions to describe how pathetic your world view is. Right .....the rest of us independents at pretend brokerages like Raymond James, LPL and so on are just deluding ourselves that we are "real" brokers like you big important Jones guys. Gee, I wish I could play in the big sandbox.
Everyone knows you guys make more money. But lack or resources, lack of stock analysts, lack of many things make it less good for clients (usually). Some clients it won't matter, the normal mutual fund DCAs and some normal rollovers, etc. But when comes to getting stock advice, CMOs, getting good supply of bonds, and service from whole salers, it just makes sense that a large broker dealer is going to have more resources and usually better for clients.
Listen up, clueless dweeb, I have more resources and access to stock advice than I ever did at Jones. Instead of being proprietary advice, I have impartial sources, which I do have to pay for, of course. That is part of balancing the cost of doing business with the return on expenditures. I can use technical or charting sources and fundamental sources. I do both. As to the selection of bonds and CMOs my access to product is again much larger than the limited selections allowed at Jones. You do realize that when you guys get a Fannie or Freddie issue to offer, that the offer you get to sell is just the tip of the iceberg. There may be 5 or 10 positions in the offering and you are only allowed to offer a selected few. I on the other hand am able to decide what to offer to my clients.
It sounds like you must have washed out early if you were under the gun for the 25 contacts per day
Who said I was under the gun for 25 contacts a day? You assume. I don't like people telling me what to do or trying to control my business. (Reference back to the Freddie discussion, which is probably one of the things that also made my decision for me to move on.) It might be a character flaw I must admit. BUT it is also why I am a successful independent and not a drone at someone else's business.
Now, if you are happy at Jones or ML or any other place.....good for you. Just get over the presumptuous attitude that if a person chooses not to be you that there is something substandard about them. You might be able to have a civilized discussion if you got off your imaginary pedestal and tried to approach others with an open mind.
[quote=SonnyClips]I met a guy who drove a schwann's truck. He worked for a wirehouse before coming to Jones, no $hit. [/quote]
Yeah, and now he's posting under the screenname "JonesIR".
[quote=JonesIR]
Babbling Looney:
You make some good points. I realize independents will make more money. What I meant was that people moving from Jones to a real broker dealers, not independents. Everyone knows you guys make more money. But lack or resources, lack of stock analysts, lack of many things make it less good for clients (usually). Some clients it won't matter, the normal mutual fund DCAs and some normal rollovers, etc. But when comes to getting stock advice, CMOs, getting good supply of bonds, and service from whole salers, it just makes sense that a large broker dealer is going to have more resources and usually better for clients. It sounds like you must have washed out early if you were under the gun for the 25 contacts per day.
[/quote]
What do you do...BATHE in the Kool-Aid?!!! It's obvious to me that you know nothing about competing broker-dealers except for the propaganda that the Kool-Aid Kings at Jones feed you (your comment about lack of resources and analysts gives you away). As an independent, I have access to resources and research you are apparently blissfully ignorant of. Do yourself a favor and quit commenting on competitors you don't know anything about...you look foolish doing so.
[quote=JonesIR]
Babbling Looney:
You make some good points. I realize independents will make more money. What I meant was that people moving from Jones to a real broker dealers, not independents. Everyone knows you guys make more money. But lack or resources, lack of stock analysts, lack of many things make it less good for clients (usually). Some clients it won't matter, the normal mutual fund DCAs and some normal rollovers, etc. But when comes to getting stock advice, CMOs, getting good supply of bonds, and service from whole salers, it just makes sense that a large broker dealer is going to have more resources and usually better for clients. It sounds like you must have washed out early if you were under the gun for the 25 contacts per day.
[/quote]
Wow you really have no clue do you? Arrogance personified, to speak as you do on matters about which you know absolutely nothing.
In addition to original research and commentary from my b/d, I also get research from tiny little firms such as CS First Boston, Standard and Poor's, and Zacks. All updated daily. Yea I'm really suffering not having that conflicted second-rate wirehouse sell-side research. If you think you're getting 'good stock advice' from the research department at most any 'major' firm, you're naive, stupid, or both.
I can buy bonds wherever I like.....we get info about inventory available at numerous trading desks all over the street, as well as new issue offerings too. My firm merely executes the trade for me. I don't care if they carry inventory. I can go to whichever firm-of several-offers me the best price. Shoot maybe the cmo's I bought just last week came off your firm's desk. And since my payout is WAY higher than yours I didn't have to put 2-3 points in them to make good money!
But really I'd rather you just ignore my comments as the rantings of an angry lunatic. Us "small time indy brokers" love it when people like you carry that attitude around. You don't know how many times I've had people tell me stories about how they preferred to deal with "an independent professional" because they didn't feel like Mr. Big Hitter at Big Firm Inc. either didn't care to give them the time of day, or was more concerned about lining his pockets than their goals and needs. So, please, keep thinking that way because it just makes it MUCH easier when it comes time for your (former) clients to sit down with me and sign those ACATS forms.
And Happy New Year!
Indy is for people who are natural born entreprenuers. Wirehouses and Jones are for people who are natural born employees.
You guys make some interesting points. I guess some of you have more tools than most people give you credit for. Any advice how I can convince my clients to move their funds into one of the glamorous wrap accounts and pay 4 times more money for their funds?
By the way did you catch the latest Registered Rep Ranking of the firms that just came out again? I believe that is 13 years in a row at #1.
[quote=JonesIR]
You guys make some interesting points. I guess some of you have more tools than most people give you credit for. Any advice how I can convince my clients to move their funds into one of the glamorous wrap accounts and pay 4 times more money for their funds?
By the way did you catch the latest Registered Rep Ranking of the firms that just came out again? I believe that is 13 years in a row at #1.
[/quote]
Sure...tell them that it's time for them to graduate from being a retail client at Jones. They love the term "retail client."
Two things about the ranking. First, the Jones EMPLOYEES have a motivation to rank the firm highly. They are hoping for partnerships that will make them more money. They are biased. I'd probably do the same thing. Second, being number one against a bunch of wirehouses is NOT a big accomplishment. My firm would rate higher than them, too, and we're NOT biased.