Retention....please do not hijack
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Ok, I was not going to start this fight earlier, but ignorance seems to be abundant. PCG got approx half of what the AGE guys got last year. ISG brokers got ZERO!!! ISG is twice as profitable as PCG/AGE, ISG brokers do more on average, yet got nothing last year, and frankly, I did not hear much complaining. Do we have a better referral sourc ein ISG?? Yes, but do we take a lesser payout for that?? Yes. Simply put, ISG should and will get the best retention, followed by old school PCG, followed by a small if not Zero package for AGE. I can not make comments about FINET because I do not know what they got. Let the firestorm begin.
Why in the world would they pay retention to the bank advisors. Where are they going to go and who are they going to take with them for clients? They can be replaced overnight.
The AGE guys thought at the time the retention package was close to fair. Now that we have seen the WS system, management, and lack of support we realize that we were low-balled. If they want us to stay there better be something substantial. The WS side got something for nothing and not for the first time. Example-PRU. Why would they get more?[quote=Blue2]Why in the world would they pay retention to the bank advisors. Where are they going to go and who are they going to take with them for clients? They can be replaced overnight.
The AGE guys thought at the time the retention package was close to fair. Now that we have seen the WS system, management, and lack of support we realize that we were low-balled. If they want us to stay there better be something substantial. The WS side got something for nothing and not for the first time. Example-PRU. Why would they get more?[/quote] "Better be something substantial" Are you dillusional? Do you think these people are smart enough to know that the T-12 numbers for most are phony in terms of future numbers. Would you pay something substiantial if you were writing the check? Consider also they bought WB for the bank and the brokerage came along with it?As age legacy fa I m sitting in front of my computer and watching the market drop 200 points, cant get any straight answers from back office, computer has frozen up for the 4th time this week, clients calling to ask if wachovia is going bankrupt, cold calling prospect who does not want anything to do with wachovia, client’s are unhappy and my production is down 50% and I am asking myself how did I get to this point.
Your story is same as about a dozen people I know...Can hardly wait for next year, Here we go!!As age legacy fa I m sitting in front of my computer and watching the market drop 200 points, cant get any straight answers from back office, computer has frozen up for the 4th time this week, clients calling to ask if wachovia is going bankrupt, cold calling prospect who does not want anything to do with wachovia, client’s are unhappy and my production is down 50% and I am asking myself how did I get to this point.
This is meant as 100% sincere and constructive in nature: The markets are providing us enough challenges. Do any of us really need, or should we accept, our own firm adding to the difficulty? Even for a “retention” check? Sounds like there is some very preventable misery out there. A firm’s technology, culture and balance sheet are things over which you have control to choose for yourself. Life’s too short to be miserable in one’s own office, IMHO. Best of luck to you all!!!
Should be better when you get on the WS system. WWAs age legacy fa I m sitting in front of my computer and watching the market drop 200 points, cant get any straight answers from back office, computer has frozen up for the 4th time this week, clients calling to ask if wachovia is going bankrupt, cold calling prospect who does not want anything to do with wachovia, client’s are unhappy and my production is down 50% and I am asking myself how did I get to this point.
[quote=go_huskies]i’m with isg. we’re the most profitable firm in the entire industry - double pcg’s margins - but never get the bonuses, sales support, even adequate smartstation functionality. our production goes to support pcg/age that mgmt loves to dolt on. i don’t get it, but i think we can all agree that sr mgmt at this firm is as much an oxymoron as freezer burn.
make no mistake, i'm here by choice. i left the wirehouse and embraced teaming with the banking divisions. i recently got a significant referral from wealth mgmt for laddered bonds. that certainly doesn't happen with pcg/age. wirehouse teamwork???...another oxymoron. well's process will only enhance the opportunity. at the same time, i share an assistant and open my own accounts. grass roots baby, just like the age guys claim to be while venting about their precious retention bonus. isg actually deserves a retention bonus far more than pcg/age since they just got one a year ago. all those stressing out over the matter should just get it over with a call a recruiter. that you're so focused on retention suggests your biz has issues. part of me hopes we don't get a bonus, as i'll scoop up all those opportunities left from those that leave for the wrong reasons. better still i woundn't have the handcuffs retention presents. i only wish i lived closer to kurt sylvia's region - he'll leave $100s of millions behind. [/quote] You gotta be kidding. EVERY isg broker I know couldn't come close to making it on their own...whether it be PCG, wirehouse, or regional. That was their only option if they wanted to stay in the business. Of course isg is profitable. it's easy business. sell fixed annuities out the wazoo to bank customers when their cds come due. like shooting fish in a barrell. No offense, but ANYBODY can be an isg rep. There is NO WAY isg reps receive ANY retention. You are so replaceable because the bank has the relationships, not you. The reason PCG reps are getting a retention and the reason our payouts are higher is b/c we create our own relationships. We are not parasites sucking on the banks customers. Believe it or not, I have nothing against isg reps. However, you are way out of line if you actually think that you are on par with PCG or FiNet reps...the guys who actually create their own relationships. Your quote "i left the wirehouse and embraced teaming with the banking divisions. i recently got a significant referral from wealth mgmt for laddered bonds. that certainly doesn't happen with pcg/age." is so ridiculous. Who decides to leave so they can "embrace teaming with banking divisions". What B.S. FYI - I wish Kurt Sylvia was closer too. You are right he will leave $100s of millions behind b/c he was in ISG and they are the bank's relationships not his. My best bud is leaving ISG tomorrow to go to a wirehouse. He's getting a nice package to go and even he told me that he'd be surprised if he can move a chunk of his book b/c of the tight nit relationships his customers have with the bank branch.[quote=Go_Long][quote=BukiRob][
I heard the exact opposite. That WFC and WS specifically want to compensate the lower end producers (Guys doing under 500K) [/quote] They have to pay at lower production levels, you can't compare it to ML where their advisors do on average more production. Fact is that on the AGE side, half the firm is doing less than 300k. If there is a retention it will be very interesting to see if they use a trailing 12, where the cutoff is. September - when the deal was announced, or later when production and trailing 12 numbers dropped. It's amazing. If you're a doctor making $300k, you're respected big time. If you're an advisor, you're chump change and not worthy... There are a lot of good solid producers that are 250-500K. They may not be in the metropolitan areas with some disadvantages. Try to make 500k in T12 with a fee-based book of business. You need a lot of assets in a -40% down market.Wirehouse brokers “making” $300k are respected big-time in this business. The difference is, they need to produce @$750 in revenue to “make” that $300k. Those damn “payouts” from gross commission.
you really don’t get it. i can move as much as my book as any other rep. i run managed money and laddered bonds just like any other broker. your misconception is shared by many, but if i leave, i not only take my book, i take a huge base of bank resources including the bankers.
those bs brokers from mini-banks that sell fixed annuities don't get hired here. you need a book of fee based revenue to get in, and you get squat for bonuses - the opportunity is why you come. indeed, stock brokers need not apply - dinosaurs walking the earth. i earn my biz just like you for a majority of revenue - client referrals and hustle. the bank referrals add real gravy, but my book is mine. my colleague took a team to merrill this year. got 200% up front and nearly wiped out the regional wealth management office. the bank lost corp clients to mother's total merrill process. this ain't your daddy's bank brokerage. think about it, do you believe that if a client's cfp leaves this bank with all its issues, they'd actually stick around? finally, i'm not anti-pcg/age, it's just that that division comes across as overly entitled and i think they're going to be disappointed. if you get a retention package, cheers to youAll I have to say is misery loves company. We get it. You are independent and you berate everyone else who isn't. I will never go independent. I've crunched the numbers. First, the 90% payout on fee based business is a sham. Most independents charge the fa anywhere from 25-75bps on the value of assets that you receive zero payout on. the 90% is on the remainder. So, it's more like 65% payout. Second, I don't mind the firm keeping more of my payout in exchange for providing the infrastructure, paying the light bills, paying my assistant, all of my state registrations, state insurance licenses, providing opportunities for continuing ed, etc... Third, the average indy rep produces jack. For example, the average LPL advisor produces $175k. Fourth, the net payout is the virtually the same when you take into account all costs. For example, an indy has to pay 12.4% FICA tax versus 6.2% as a wirehouse rep (the firm pays the other half). Fifth, I like the professional and social aspect of the branch environment. We have a friendly competition with each other. We hang after work. We enjoy ourselves. In our branch we figured it out that you should go indy if you are a $1million+ producer because your fixed expenses will then represent a small enough percentage for it to make sense. That is probably the reason PCG created the Profit Formula channel to allow high end PCG reps to earn a higher payout and keep them from going indy. Also, you need to buy your own building instead of paying rent to yourself. Ironically, most indy reps are low producers who continue to rent their space and spend most of their time on these forums berating wirehouse reps b/c they aren't indy. Telling them they aren't true business owners. When in reality, they want everyone else to be as miserable as they are. If I was so happy about my decision, I could care less what other people chose. MISERY LOVES COMPANY!Wirehouse brokers “making” $300k are respected big-time in this business. The difference is, they need to produce @$750 in revenue to “make” that $300k. Those damn “payouts” from gross commission.
Please allow me to re-phrase, so as not to be as provocative: Anyone “making” $300k is respected big-time in this business, just as doctors who “make” $300k are, which is the example used by Vet20, above, prompting my apparently incendiary response. I intended no malice toward reps in any platform. My point was, simply, that (most, anyway) doctors don’t pay a “franchise percentage to a parent “firm””, for lack of a better term.
ot…senate killed the auto bailout…
i didn't think they'd be this stupid...bankruptcy may be in order, but at least buy time with money already earmarked to get through the credit crunch... santa's rally broken if s&p breaks 850...need 820-800 to hold...otherwise 740-600 real possibility... double short (30% hedge) if break 850...oh yeah, since my office is in a bank, should i check with the board to see if it's ok to proceed??? so much for bullsh!ting about retention, back into the kill zoneryedog, your way off base on your view of ISG. A lot of us came from wirehouses. We brought books with us. We run managed money as much as anyone. Our best customers we still develop on our own. We market ourselves in the community and beat the bushes for new biz (maybe not as hard anymore). I work with many guys that came over from ML, SB, MS etc. I helped recruit quality guys I knew there. They were hitters there and are bigger hitters here. There are ISG reps that are not up to par but they are steadily being replaced by wirehouse folks that have built good practices and know how to exploit every single opportunity ISG affords them while continuing their same business practices as before. ISG is being recognized up the chain of command and you will see us get the retention and quite possibly the largest package of the 3. Now if you thought ISG guys couldnt cut it at the wirehouse, why did you let your best bud just blow himself up by going there?
3rd ID…you nailed it. there is no disrespect to the pcg/age guys, but we need less time to market ourselves. new business is constant, so we kill wirehouses in billing at least 50bps below wirehouse standards.
merrill pays my mortgage. i use the same managers, but bill at 1.8bps for mgd money vs merrill's 2.25. since we already have at least some portion of the client's banking needs, especially on the corporate side, it's a no brainer to the client. Throw in my CFP, and a nice big insurance business succession strategy materializes that the stockbroker doesn't quite comprehend, but the client values. you guys thinking isg means fixed annuity morons need to wake up. we found the keys to the door past the 'do not call' world and likely know more of your clients than you'd want to believe. we don't kill pcg/age out of courtesy, not because you're better. go ahead, make the move, just don't be surprised when your 5 year+ client says he isn't leaving since he found a better broker that provides greater service at less cost... again, i don't mean to be confrontational, but most don't know the playing field you're dealing with...we're highly skilled, very professional, and worth more to wells than most of you imagine.Disclaimer: I have no ill will towards AGE/PCG, despite all the comments about our replacability.
That said, if you are AGE/PCG and you do less than 500K a year, AND if you care about retention, you had better get on your knees and pray that ISG is not included in the potential retention package. If ISG IS included in the deal, then we (ISG) will kill the curve. I would imagine the avergae difference in production of an ISG rep vs a AGE/PCG rep exceeds 100k/yr. If I am wrong, I would love to hear somebody tell me.All I have to say is misery loves company. We get it. You are independent and you berate everyone else who isn't. I will never go independent. I've crunched the numbers. First, the 90% payout on fee based business is a sham. Most independents charge the fa anywhere from 25-75bps on the value of assets that you receive zero payout on. the 90% is on the remainder. So, it's more like 65% payout. Second, I don't mind the firm keeping more of my payout in exchange for providing the infrastructure, paying the light bills, paying my assistant, all of my state registrations, state insurance licenses, providing opportunities for continuing ed, etc... Third, the average indy rep produces jack. For example, the average LPL advisor produces $175k. Fourth, the net payout is the virtually the same when you take into account all costs. For example, an indy has to pay 12.4% FICA tax versus 6.2% as a wirehouse rep (the firm pays the other half). Fifth, I like the professional and social aspect of the branch environment. We have a friendly competition with each other. We hang after work. We enjoy ourselves. In our branch we figured it out that you should go indy if you are a $1million+ producer because your fixed expenses will then represent a small enough percentage for it to make sense. That is probably the reason PCG created the Profit Formula channel to allow high end PCG reps to earn a higher payout and keep them from going indy. Also, you need to buy your own building instead of paying rent to yourself. Ironically, most indy reps are low producers who continue to rent their space and spend most of their time on these forums berating wirehouse reps b/c they aren't indy. Telling them they aren't true business owners. When in reality, they want everyone else to be as miserable as they are. If I was so happy about my decision, I could care less what other people chose. MISERY LOVES COMPANY![/quote] Absolutely spot on. Ive looked at Finet with 2 other brokers to share expenses the 3 of us were doing a combined 1.3 million. Obviously the last 2 quarters have done significant damage to those revenues. Our feeling was that was the minimum we had to make to make the numbers work.[quote=YHWY]Wirehouse brokers “making” $300k are respected big-time in this business. The difference is, they need to produce @$750 in revenue to “make” that $300k. Those damn “payouts” from gross commission.
All I KNOW is in my branch we have 3 guys that were recruited by the previous manager from Bank One’s bank brokerage channel. All three were doing very big numbers (read million dollar plus producers.) None of them is doing even half of those numbers here. All three have been here in excess of 3-4 years.
BANK ASSETS ARE STICKY TO THE BANK, NOT YOUAll I have to say is misery loves company. We get it. You are independent and you berate everyone else who isn't. I will never go independent. I've crunched the numbers. First, the 90% payout on fee based business is a sham. Most independents charge the fa anywhere from 25-75bps on the value of assets that you receive zero payout on. the 90% is on the remainder. So, it's more like 65% payout.[quote=YHWY]Wirehouse brokers “making” $300k are respected big-time in this business. The difference is, they need to produce @$750 in revenue to “make” that $300k. Those damn “payouts” from gross commission.
What???
Second, I don't mind the firm keeping more of my payout in exchange for providing the infrastructure, paying the light bills, paying my assistant, all of my state registrations, state insurance licenses, providing opportunities for continuing ed, etc...
Hard to argue with someone who is happy paying his firm $250,000 + to cover $50,000 in expenses for him.
Third, the average indy rep produces jack. For example, the average LPL advisor produces $175k.
If you are a big producer in a wirehouse, you will be a big producer as an independent.
Fourth, the net payout is the virtually the same when you take into account all costs. For example, an indy has to pay 12.4% FICA tax versus 6.2% as a wirehouse rep (the firm pays the other half).
True, if you're doing under $100,000. Also, FICA is only paid on the first $102,000 of income.
Fifth, I like the professional and social aspect of the branch environment. We have a friendly competition with each other. We hang after work. We enjoy ourselves.
That's a valid point and should be considered before going indy.
In our branch we figured it out that you should go indy if you are a $1million+ producer because your fixed expenses will then represent a small enough percentage for it to make sense. That is probably the reason PCG created the Profit Formula channel to allow high end PCG reps to earn a higher payout and keep them from going indy. Also, you need to buy your own building instead of paying rent to yourself. Ironically, most indy reps are low producers who continue to rent their space and spend most of their time on these forums berating wirehouse reps b/c they aren't indy. Telling them they aren't true business owners. When in reality, they want everyone else to be as miserable as they are. If I was so happy about my decision, I could care less what other people chose. MISERY LOVES COMPANY![/quote]