Piss-ant Regionals Big Winners?

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CDO Squared's picture
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Looks like the little piss-ant regional wanna-be firms that were mostly wanna-be FA's.............(only objective tough love here).

have become the BIG BIG winners in the MF free world melt down of 2009.

WFC (JS)
BAC (ken lewis)
Central government leader B. Obama and the Obama socialist nation all want FA pay cut say....in half.

The piss ants (no banks, no cdo's.no cmo's, no witch doctor, no witch hazel etc).

just good old school brokers trying to make some people some moolay......look like they might become much more relevant

JayMc's picture
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Joined: 2009-01-25

wrong

Want-to-be is still the right way to describe little regional firms.

Those guys do $350,000 and they think their Bill Gross.

It will not change.    The big wire houses will be the place for "real" rain makers

(that includes AG Edwards)

stampede's picture
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JayMc wrote:wrong Want-to-be is still the right way to describe little regional firms. Those guys do $350,000 and they think their Bill Gross. It will not change.    The big wire houses will be the place for "real" rain makers (that includes AG Edwards)
 
I just heard the Principality of Dumbf***istan is buying WFA, Merrill and UBS with an eye toward acquiring MS/SB.   Sounds like a perfert fit for the superior types like you. 

Heel's picture
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JayMc wrote: wrong

Want-to-be is still the right way to describe little regional firms.

Those guys do $350,000 and they think their Bill Gross.

It will not change.    The big wire houses will be the place for "real" rain makers

(that includes AG Edwards)

Totally wrong. Tired of the bullsh!t the banks have done to our industry. Don't be surprised if there is resurgence of the Regionals. With majors you are a number and it will always be a numbers game, lose one $1mm producer, lets buy another one. No loyalty whatsoever. Regionals, you actually know people in the headquarters to get stuff done. With technology the way it is today, main difference would be underwriting and no one is doing that in this climate, plus, anything worth s sh!t would go to Institutionals anyway.

I can guarantee you one thing, my partnership about 5x the amount you referenced and we are considering them. Nothing is wrong with going to a boutique firm. Actually, it will probably be more refreshing for clients than you think.

scotsman's picture
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JayMc wrote:wrong Want-to-be is still the right way to describe little regional firms. Those guys do $350,000 and they think their Bill Gross. It will not change.    The big wire houses will be the place for "real" rain makers (that includes AG Edwards)
 
I am confused.  If you are at AGE/WS Doesn't DL preach about how we are the big Firm that has the regional culture.  Sounds like most people want that regional firm environment.  Or at least try to pretend it has a regional environment. When I started at WS it was a little regional and it has only gotten worse from then till now

Gordon Gekko's picture
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JayMc didn't get the memo that things have changed.

PaulAtreides's picture
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scotsman wrote:JayMc wrote:wrong Want-to-be is still the right way to describe little regional firms. Those guys do $350,000 and they think their Bill Gross. It will not change.    The big wire houses will be the place for "real" rain makers (that includes AG Edwards)
 
I am confused.  If you are at AGE/WS Doesn't DL preach about how we are the big Firm that has the regional culture.  Sounds like most people want that regional firm environment.  Or at least try to pretend it has a regional environment. When I started at WS it was a little regional and it has only gotten worse from then till nowWhat people want is a firm that will take care of them and their clients. Regionals have typically been more responsive to brokers making them feel appreciated and not just an employee. The issue with Regional Firms historically, is their product offerings and their systems have lagged behind the wire houses.Brokers have had to make trade offs in the past better tools/products for less autonomy or vice versa. Regional firms still lag behind the wire houses but brokers seems to find their offerings sufficient to run their books.    Someone on these forums predicted the resurgence of regional firms and I would agree with them.  WS was an experiment in linking a bank to a brokerage firm and it looks like that experiment has failed. Banks view all clients as theirs period. They my pay lip service otherwise, but they will not be able to resist pushing their stuff on your clients. I have seen it happen personally at WS and believe the ML people will experiance the same thing in the future. If not under Ken under the next guy.Point to all of this, do your research when looking to jump. The regionals will probably surprise you. You will not get as big of an upfront check, but will probably be happier in the long run.Woud love to hear from others on why they choose one firm over another.

Gordon Gekko's picture
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I chose the regional route because I was tired of losing prospects to Wachovia's bad press. Dealing with a market meltdown is enough of a challenge. To each his own. Brokers in love with wirehouses will justify their superiority to the bitter end.

mnbondguy's picture
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The lack  of product is a BS story wirehouses have been spreading about regionals  for years.  There are a lot of products that regionals don't want in their system,  AGE didn't allow structured products (retail derivatives) because they are a rip off.  They know that they are loaded with fees by the bank that created them, and that a lot of retail brokers/ clients don't really understand what they are buying.  Do you really need access to 1000s of money managers?  Are they all that different?  Many regionals try and do the due diligence on a few select ones and allow them into their systems, it is what is best for the client.  Wirehouses will pretty much let any thing into their retail accounts as long as they can get their cut.  Putting the client first should be more then just a slogan.

Sportsfreakbob's picture
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mnbondguy wrote:The lack  of product is a BS story wirehouses have been spreading about regionals  for years.  There are a lot of products that regionals don't want in their system,  AGE didn't allow structured products (retail derivatives) because they are a rip off.  They know that they are loaded with fees by the bank that created them, and that a lot of retail brokers/ clients don't really understand what they are buying.  Do you really need access to 1000s of money managers?  Are they all that different?  Many regionals try and do the due diligence on a few select ones and allow them into their systems, it is what is best for the client.  Wirehouses will pretty much let any thing into their retail accounts as long as they can get their cut.  Putting the client first should be more then just a slogan.This post is dead on. I have been doing the due dilligence, and i am amazed at what the Regionals AND the Indies offer. The wirehouses have brainwashed us all with the bullsh*t about superior platforms and technology. None of it is correct. And i am amazed at how many million dollar producers at the wires have no clue about this. The "piss-ant" offerings are as good.And to JayMC - The "piker" at the regional doing 500k makes about as much as you doing a million at a regional, after all the expenses, and has a better lifestyle and more freedom. So you can swing your big rainmaking d*** all you want, its no bigger than the piker indie/regional d***. There are only three things that matter - taking care of cients, how much NET pay you get for it and enjoying your work. How big your d*** is has no relevance.

nestegg's picture
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Joined: 2007-06-14

You guys are Hilarious....there are lots of Million Dollar guys at regionals, the only difference is they are smart enough to realize that they get to keep more than they earn there rather than pay it all to ML, MS, WS etc. Sure there are guys doing 250-400k at regionals and the firms and the brokers are both happy, what is wrong with that. Anyone that thinks technology, products or services are lesser at regionals has been drinking the Kol Aid for way to long...I have seen the scale and scope of the wirehouse and also the reginoal side, and I have way more to offer clients from a reginoal than I ever could at a 'large' company like Wachovia. It is nice to be able to help your clients anc actually be compensated for it!

maddog's picture
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Sportsfreakbob wrote: How big your d*** is has no relevance.
 
Sportsfreakbob........are you still lying to your wife?  lol

Sportsfreakbob's picture
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maddog wrote:Sportsfreakbob wrote: How big your d*** is has no relevance.
 
Sportsfreakbob........are you still lying to your wife?  lolDog,What does that have to do with the size of my d*** deal?

JayMc's picture
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Joined: 2009-01-25

Listen, to attract REAL money from real players.......you need a huge,reputable,solid bank/firm behind you.   

Say for example a Wachovia Bank with its "fortress balance sheet" or a Bank America. If a guy is going to give you millions to manage, they have to KNOW that NOTHING could ever happen bad to the firm you work for.

Imagine how funny it would be for someone to question the stability of bac or wachovia.   funny.

people need that "piece of mind"

(foot firmly in mouth)

(feeling like corn cob firmly up my a$@)

nestegg's picture
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JayMc wrote:Listen, to attract REAL money from real players.......you need a huge,reputable,solid bank/firm behind you.   

Say for example a Wachovia Bank with its "fortress balance sheet" or a Bank America. If a guy is going to give you millions to manage, they have to KNOW that NOTHING could ever happen bad to the firm you work for.

Imagine how funny it would be for someone to question the stability of bac or wachovia.   funny.

people need that "piece of mind"

(foot firmly in mouth)

(feeling like corn cob firmly up my a$@)
LOL, for a moment I thought you were actually serious!

Sportsfreakbob's picture
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Joined: 2008-08-24

HUH???????????

Gordon Gekko's picture
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Stanford would have been considered a regional I assume so it's not totally black-and-white on the wirehouse versus regional debate.

Borker Boy's picture
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Merrill Lynch Advisors Top Barron's ListPublished: February 2009
Merrill Lynch advisors have continued their tradition of unwavering commitment to their clients and the tradition of being recognized as the best in the industry. Merrill Lynch led the list of advisors on the Barron's Winner's Circle ranking of top 1,000 advisors, with nearly twice as many as the nearest competitors.
The results, which were published in the February 9 issue, placed Merrill Lynch first in both the greatest number of advisors in the top 1,000, with 239 selected for that honor, and the greatest number of advisors ranking number one in their state, with a total of 15. The rankings are based on client satisfaction and the quality of advice. Other important selection criteria are client assets with the firm and community involvement.
"This honor acknowledges once again how all of our advisors support our clients every day, and why their advice is especially crucial in times like these," said Dan Sontag, head of Merrill Lynch Global Wealth Management. "We're proud of every advisor at Merrill Lynch who delivers for our clients, and we congratulate all those who were recognized."
The February 9 issue contains the complete list, "America's Top Advisors: State by State." To honor the winners, and to showcase the quality of advice provided by our advisors, as well as the power of our brand, Merrill Lynch placed a full-page congratulatory ad to the winners in the issue.
Barron's Winner's Circle is an independent research organization that recognizes advisors who represent the highest levels of ethical standards, professionalism and success. It works within the financial services industry to promote best practices, integrity and professionalism.

nestegg's picture
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Joined: 2007-06-14

You realize that is basically an advertisement...firms pay to submit the advisor's names....

Gordon Gekko's picture
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There was an ad in the paper today about four WS reps who made the list.

maddog's picture
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Joined: 2006-11-22

Gordon Gekko wrote:There was an ad in the paper today about four WS reps who made the list.
 
This obviously did not have production minimums tied to it.  One of the guys (AGE) did about $300,000 last year.

theironhorse's picture
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Joined: 2007-03-03

and if someone posted all the awards/accolades Jones gets would you agree with the press?

B24's picture
B24
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Joined: 2008-07-08

The only comment I will make about the wires is this....I have a lot of friends that work at both SB and Merrill.  99% of what they do is C share mutual funds, mutual fund advisory services, and annuities, with some indiv stocks, bonds, CD's, etc sprinkled in.  None of them do one bit of structured products, or anything beyond what I can do at Jones.  Now granted, they all produce between 500k-1.5mm, so they are not the billion dollar teams in Manhattan using hedge funds and structured products.  But the point is, most average wirehouse producers are using the same products as everyone else.  However, I do think it would be nice to have those options when/if necessary for a client.
And yes, if you read the fine print, wirehouses and advisors have to SUBMIT their OWN names for those awards.  I mentioned this in a post a few months back.....the top producer in our state (he is a RayJay outfit) is not even on the list.  He has like 800mm in AUM.  Also keep in mind, the person who is ON the list as our state's top producer (also an indy) has a staff of 47 people, which includes 13 advisors.  So the numbers are also relative to the size of the team.  Not one of those top wirehouse producers does it by themself.  Most of them in the hundreds of millions in AUM have teams of 10-15 people or more.
Take 10 advisors at a regional each doing 400K with 50mm AUM, and what do you have?  A team with 500mm AUM and 4.0mm T12.  That's what a lot of these wirehouse teams are doing, but have one guy taking all the credit as the "top dog" of the team.  Now granted, you probably have that one guy responsible for half the assets and production of the team, but he could have never reached those numbers without a huge team.

JayMc's picture
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Joined: 2009-01-25

You regional (pissants-good word) are like little whinny yipping dogs.
Always trying to say you belong with the real big dogs-and you dont-period.   

Go back doing your $300k thinking your the man.

Its like in sports...say the SEC....you have your REAL teams (bama, gators etc)and your pissants (miss, vandy etc). Perfect

yankees-wirehouse
brewers-pissants

steelers- wirehouse
cleveland-regional

tar heels-wirehouse
nc state-regioanls

irish-wirehouse
iowa-regionals

Heel's picture
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Joined: 2009-02-20

JayMc wrote: You regional (pissants-good word) are like little whinny yipping dogs.
Always trying to say you belong with the real big dogs-and you dont-period.   

Go back doing your $300k thinking your the man.

Its like in sports...say the SEC....you have your REAL teams (bama, gators etc)and your pissants (miss, vandy etc). Perfect

yankees-wirehouse
brewers-pissants

steelers- wirehouse
cleveland-regional

tar heels-wirehouse
nc state-regioanls

irish-wirehouse
iowa-regionals

Jmac

Maybe back in the day that was true but now, ALL wirehouses are a bank. The universal banking model at its best. I can guarantee you that many here that are regionals or thinking about going regional are bigger producers than you. Plus, the sh*t that we are in was created (CDO's, Derivatives, etc.) by the Wirehouses. Now, thats something to hang your hat on. Don't get me wrong, I don't believe the problem started on Wall Street, actually Main Street, but its these big boys that you thump your chest on that created products that "couldn't" fail. No wonder Regional stock prices have held up much better.

mnbondguy's picture
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JayMc wrote:You regional (pissants-good word) are like little whinny yipping dogs. Always trying to say you belong with the real big dogs-and you dont-period.    Go back doing your $300k thinking your the man. Its like in sports...say the SEC....you have your REAL teams (bama, gators etc)and your pissants (miss, vandy etc). Perfect yankees-wirehouse brewers-pissants steelers- wirehouse cleveland-regional tar heels-wirehouse nc state-regioanls irish-wirehouse iowa-regionals
surely you jest?  Looks like uncle same is going to put some more cash into one of the "real big dogs".  Ave production at wirehouses is higher because they are quicker to pull the trigger on the low producers and up stream accounts, not because  the quality of the broker is any better.  Will be interesting to see how many major sporting events the "big dogs" are sponsering this year.

HymanRoth's picture
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JayMc wrote:You regional (pissants-good word) are like little whinny yipping dogs.
Always trying to say you belong with the real big dogs-and you dont-period.   

Go back doing your $300k thinking your the man.

Its like in sports...say the SEC....you have your REAL teams (bama, gators etc)and your pissants (miss, vandy etc). Perfect

yankees-wirehouse
brewers-pissants

steelers- wirehouse
cleveland-regional

tar heels-wirehouse
nc state-regioanls

irish-wirehouse
iowa-regionals

Wow...typical wirehouse arrogance.I'm going to have to go back and check the sports pages for the last few weeks.  I dont' recall reading anything about the steelers or the yankees requiring a government bailout.....

Philo Kvetch's picture
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CDO Squared wrote: Looks like the little piss-ant regional wanna-be firms that were mostly wanna-be FA's.............(only objective tough love here).

have become the BIG BIG winners in the MF free world melt down of 2009.

WFC (JS)
BAC (ken lewis)
Central government leader B. Obama and the Obama socialist nation all want FA pay cut say....in half.

The piss ants (no banks, no cdo's.no cmo's, no witch doctor, no witch hazel etc).

just good old school brokers trying to make some people some moolay......look like they might become much more relevant

Suppose you're right.

Doesn't that put you on the wrong side of the river?

HymanRoth's picture
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Philo Kvetch wrote: CDO Squared wrote: Looks like the little piss-ant regional wanna-be firms that were mostly wanna-be FA's.............(only objective tough love here).

have become the BIG BIG winners in the MF free world melt down of 2009.

WFC (JS)
BAC (ken lewis)
Central government leader B. Obama and the Obama socialist nation all want FA pay cut say....in half.

The piss ants (no banks, no cdo's.no cmo's, no witch doctor, no witch hazel etc).

just good old school brokers trying to make some people some moolay......look like they might become much more relevant
Suppose you're right.

Doesn't that put you on the wrong side of the river?Hi Philo - long time no see!  Hope you are faring well...

nestegg's picture
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JayMc wrote:You regional (pissants-good word) are like little whinny yipping dogs. Always trying to say you belong with the real big dogs-and you dont-period.    Go back doing your $300k thinking your the man. Its like in sports...say the SEC....you have your REAL teams (bama, gators etc)and your pissants (miss, vandy etc). Perfect yankees-wirehouse brewers-pissants steelers- wirehouse cleveland-regional tar heels-wirehouse nc state-regioanls irish-wirehouse iowa-regionals
Mmmm that Kool Aid is delicous isn't it! What Flavor is your Wirwhouse serving this week!

Cowboy93's picture
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Joined: 2005-05-10

Irish--wirehouse...guess so:  both completely blown  up lately.

BondGuy's picture
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Joined: 2006-09-21

This is a funny thread!
 
I moved to a boutique regional about five years ago and couldn't be happier. With experience at two wires my current firm is a step up in all aspects. We offer a full menu of products and services offered on the same platforms as the wires. There is no competitive disadvantage. Believing that there is a disadvantage is a common misconception perpetuated by wirehouse mgnt.  As is the notion that regional brokers produce less.
 
The big difference is instead of having 100 product people per department force feeding you BS and leeching off the revenue stream we have far fewer. We have the amount that the wires should have. Not having as many mouths to feed leaves us with a bigger piece of the pie.
 
However, the biggest difference is the fixed income trading desks. At the wires these desks have become less important over the past decade as the fee movement has gathered steam. Most wirehouse guys are so wired into fee business that they can't spell bond let alone know how to buy one. This has allowed the FI desks at the wires to rape their clients, as these clients, who are the advisors,  don't know any better. Wires FI desks are profit centers. They revel in taking the wealth mgnt dept profits and converting it to their own. Imagine being screwed on every trade, that's the life of an average wirehouse broker trying to execute fixed income. Of course some of the older guys know better and won't put up with that BS. But the average fee guy is a lamb going to slaughter.
 
The way I see it the wire question is self solving. Last Thursday I tranferred a $400k from a wire. Today i will close on a new account with $991k from a wire. And so it will go week after week. People are fed up with all the crap and fees this group has foisted upon them. The wirehouse guys are dinosaurs and don't know it.

SAL3678's picture
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Joined: 2009-02-23

I came from AGE about 7 years ago to a smaller regiional firm on the indy side and the culture reminds me a lot of the AGE culture but on a smaller scale. The service is great and they treat brokers very well.

Borker Boy's picture
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Joined: 2006-12-09

All this talk about the regionals...
 
Edward Jones is a regional, but I have a feeling they aren't one of the firms you guys are referring to.
 
Since that's probably the case, what other types of regionals are there? Are they technically independent or truly regionals like EDJ?

SAL3678's picture
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Joined: 2009-02-23

My firm has both independent and the pcg channel.

Spaceman Spiff's picture
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Borker Boy wrote:All this talk about the regionals...
 
Edward Jones is a regional, but I have a feeling they aren't one of the firms you guys are referring to.
 
Since that's probably the case, what other types of regionals are there? Are they technically independent or truly regionals like EDJ?
 
What does it take to make the move from regional to wirehouse?  Number of advisors?  Total AUM?  Number of IPOs handled? 
 
Or are these terms wirehouse and regional now obsolete? 

theironhorse's picture
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Joined: 2007-03-03

irish=wirehouse.  lol.  10 year old thinking would lead one to believe wirehouses have a big advantage over regionals.  thanks for the laugh, i needed 1 today.

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