MS announcment on 11/3?

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Elvis's picture
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Well obviously word leaked out and there will be comp changes to be announced. I will say i am impressed with Mikebutler intuitiveness. Must be in upper managment are an Assistant Manager. Oops, didnt mean that since they are removing that position in December. The question really is how good is the bookkeeping? We know that there will be an increase in compensation for those who do over 300k. But i also know there is no free lunches! Oh yes, discount shareing thats the answer! Lets penalize brokers who discount!
 

troll's picture
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Elvis wrote:
Lets penalize brokers who discount!

If you sold computers would you expect your employer to allow you to reduce their profit without sharing any of that cost?

troll's picture
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Elvis wrote:
Well obviously word leaked out and there will be comp changes to be announced. I will say i am impressed with Mikebutler intuitiveness. Must be in upper managment are an Assistant Manager.
Could it be I just listened to Gorman saying exactly that at the last town hall meeting? Gezzeeeeee

iconsult100's picture
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Joined: 2005-09-07

Haven't we been saying that the comp changes were coming and that they would be pretty good for a change?

My Inner Child's picture
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Devil'sAdvocate wrote:Elvis wrote:
Lets penalize brokers who discount!

If you sold computers would you expect your employer to allow you to reduce their profit without sharing any of that cost?

It happens all the time.

BondJamesBond's picture
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Joined: 2006-10-21

Yes MS will have to up comp packages to stem attrition. Payouts will probably increase for those who do North of 300k. Payouts will also prob increase for tickets bigger than $400-500 dollars. Wachovia is really leading the way with the different platforms. MS mgmt must realize that the ol Merrill way: "My way or the hiway" just won't cut it at this point. Both Wachovia and the independents are putting tremendous pressure on the big wires to pay up or lose another wave of brokers...and the clients that would follow.

troll's picture
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BondJamesBond wrote:Both Wachovia and the independents are putting tremendous pressure on the big wires to pay up or lose another wave of brokers...and the clients that would follow.
 
ROFLMAO, I doubt any of the changes will come as a result of pressures from Wachovia and Indies...

$ N the Bank's picture
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Joined: 2005-12-27

Remeber the game "Musical Chairs" where the last two or three to find a seat would push and shove to get that seat?  That moment the music stopped playing and this sense of desparation that surrounded everyone.  It's still a fun game...to watch from a distance.  Much like MS.  You can only remove so many chairs (clients, brokers, branches, staff,etc) and then the game is over.  The music on MS stopped playing long ago.  It really has become a sad shadow of what it once was...or could have been.

Elvis's picture
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Disagree w/$ n the Bank!!! I have worked at Morgan for sometime now, and i believe it is still better then most firms out there. The point i am making, is that they cant fess up that anytime there is a change someone always loses out. Most of the time it is the broker. Come 11/2 they will hype this new compensation as a benefit for the broker (yes in someways) but not explain the math on how they are going to do this. Creative bookkeeping!!! Transactional brokers will lose out, and therefore brokers will leave.
 

troll's picture
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$ N the Bank wrote:
 The music on MS stopped playing long ago.  It really has become a sad shadow of what it once was...or could have been.

ROFLMAO, clearly you haven't a clue. What it was, was "stocks and sox", what it's becoming is much, much better.

troll's picture
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Elvis wrote:
The point i am making, is that they cant fess up that anytime there is a change someone always loses out.
For crying out loud. Could you spend much more time looking for dark clouds? "Fess up"???? Still sore because they're aren't going to be more cuts, as you predicted? Everyone over 10 yrs of age understands there are no free lunches and that most everything involves a trade-off.
Elvis wrote: Come 11/2 they will hype this new compensation as a benefit for the broker (yes in someways) but not explain the math on how they are going to do this. Creative bookkeeping!!!
If that’s what you want to call discount sharing, as many firms already had, and as will be clearly explained.
Elvis wrote: Transactional brokers will lose out, and therefore brokers will leave.
If you say so, and without even seeing the plan yet, oh negative one. Transactional brokers should have learned a long time ago that their business model isn't in vogue. They've been getting a 10% haircut on that sort of business most everywhere (MS included) for years.

troll's picture
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Joined: 2004-11-29

Do any of you think it's possible--JUST POSSIBLE--that the big wires are attempting to deal with the relatively unprofitable retail side of their business, and if not successful will simply close all virtually all of their branches and fall back on the much more profitable institutional brokerage and investment banking?
Y'all just don't understand that in today's environment the far flung networks of retail branches are not able to justify its existence.
Clients are more and more comfortable with 800 numbers, Internet access, real-time email alerts and all the rest.  The fee based model came into existence in a frenzy to replace transaction oriented commissions which went to the discounters--next to go will be retail, replaced by call centers and highly focused, and targeted, on-line seminars and training sessions.
The retail producer is going to be given an opportunity to accept what amounts to the role of an independent, or to attempt to transfer their book to another firm, or to retire from the business.
The age of computer literate investors is upon us.  I am at the leading edge of the baby-boomers.  For several years I have been giving my Dad laptops, but he uses his to write letters and do geneology type things.  He has no desire to invest on line, while I cannot imagine not investing on-line.  Those who are younger than me are even more comfortable doing things on their own.
Think about the accounting firms.  Years ago doing individual tax returns was a large part of their business--many firms looked to their corporate clients to pay the overhead and the individual clients were the profit.
Enter H&R Block kiosks in malls and Turbo-Tax.  How did the "Big Eight" frms adapt?  They consolidated and closed offices.  If you didn't have the personality and skills to be an institutional accountant you drifted to other work.
The only constant in business is change.

Starka's picture
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That may be true to an extent, but didn't we hear the same war cry a few years ago when everyone who could set up a website was making millions in the online retail businesses?  In the age of the "New Economy" weren't the big box retailers going the way of the dodo?  (Personally, I felt that the jig was up when an IPO came out for a company that would allow consumers to buy dog food online.)
Naturally change is inevitable.  It's always been inevitable.  But it's not coming in one fell swoop, it's evolving--just as it's always done.  There will be a need for retail brokerages for the foreseeable future.  If this were not so, why then are the majors all hiring like mad?  I think they would be able to see the handwriting on the wall if your scenario of the future was accurate.  Or are you claiming an omniscience that no one else posesses?

troll's picture
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Starka wrote:
That may be true to an extent, but didn't we hear the same war cry a few years ago when everyone who could set up a website was making millions in the online retail businesses?  In the age of the "New Economy" weren't the big box retailers going the way of the dodo?  (Personally, I felt that the jig was up when an IPO came out for a company that would allow consumers to buy dog food online.)
Naturally change is inevitable.  It's always been inevitable.  But it's not coming in one fell swoop, it's evolving--just as it's always done.  There will be a need for retail brokerages for the foreseeable future.  If this were not so, why then are the majors all hiring like mad?  I think they would be able to see the handwriting on the wall if your scenario of the future was accurate.  Or are you claiming an omniscience that no one else posesses?

They're hiring bodies in an attempt to generate revenue--every new broker has potential to bring in much needed revenue.
Don't be so sure the changes cannot come in one fell swoop.  There were a couple of thousand Legg Mason brokers who woke up one day to find that their branch was going to close.
Even if the morphing is relatively slow, how does that fit into the long term planning of a man or woman in this industry?  If you plan to sell your book at some point in order to retire who is going to buy it if the clients are going to the Internet and other places?

Starka's picture
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I've never made that claim.  Personally, I could retire again tomorrow.  I've set something aside for years against the day that I couldn't work anymore.  Why?  Because I've always known that change comes to all entities.
Are you saying that all brokerages have business models as flawed as Legg?  Further, you claim that brokerages are hiring like crazy to generate revenues.  Why else would you hire like crazy?
Your reasoning here is defective...where are the widespread branch closings?  One anecdotal example is not a trend.

troll's picture
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Devil'sAdvocate wrote:
Y'all just don't understand that in today's environment the far flung networks of retail branches are not able to justify its existence.
Clients are more and more comfortable with 800 numbers, Internet access, real-time email alerts and all the rest.  The fee based model came into existence in a frenzy to replace transaction oriented commissions which went to the discounters--next to go will be retail, replaced by call centers and highly focused, and targeted, on-line seminars and training sessions.
Said as only a failed-broker cum-middle management flunky could. I hear the same speech in 1993, Schwab was going to put us all out of business.....

troll's picture
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hear = heard

troll's picture
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Devil'sAdvocate wrote:Do any of you think it's possible--JUST POSSIBLE--that the big wires are attempting to deal with the relatively unprofitable retail side of their business, and if not successful will simply close all virtually all of their branches and fall back on the much more profitable institutional brokerage and investment banking?
Y'all just don't understand that in today's environment the far flung networks of retail branches are not able to justify its existence.
Clients are more and more comfortable with 800 numbers, Internet access, real-time email alerts and all the rest.  The fee based model came into existence in a frenzy to replace transaction oriented commissions which went to the discounters--next to go will be retail, replaced by call centers and highly focused, and targeted, on-line seminars and training sessions.
The retail producer is going to be given an opportunity to accept what amounts to the role of an independent, or to attempt to transfer their book to another firm, or to retire from the business.
The age of computer literate investors is upon us.  I am at the leading edge of the baby-boomers.  For several years I have been giving my Dad laptops, but he uses his to write letters and do geneology type things.  He has no desire to invest on line, while I cannot imagine not investing on-line.  Those who are younger than me are even more comfortable doing things on their own.
Think about the accounting firms.  Years ago doing individual tax returns was a large part of their business--many firms looked to their corporate clients to pay the overhead and the individual clients were the profit.
Enter H&R Block kiosks in malls and Turbo-Tax.  How did the "Big Eight" frms adapt?  They consolidated and closed offices.  If you didn't have the personality and skills to be an institutional accountant you drifted to other work.
The only constant in business is change.Once again you have proven yourself to be completely clueless about the real world......spouting the same speech that was given to financial advisors throughout the latter half of the 90's.There is a vast gap between the skills and ability required to log onto a website and the knowledge and emotional discipline reqired to be a successful investor.  Most people don't possess those key attributes.  I have seen this first hand, as over the last decade I've had MANY clients consolidate assets with me after finding out how badly they could hurt themselves trying to do it on their own and following the latest hot idea.  Call centers and focussed online seminars aren't going to change how people react to fear and greed.....

aldo63's picture
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All Iwant to say is that I left a year ago and it was the best business decision of my life. Management has never had an original thought in their life. Every change in compensation or account fees was because "merrill" or some competitor did it first. They have 8000 brokers now. from 1990 to 2004 they hired about 1000 trainee brokers a year. How many are left from the 14000 hires. The answer is very few. This does not mean they are all out of the business, some work elsewhere. 
MS is now bragging how they are hring top "talent". They are hiring million dollar producers because they are paying so much for them. They are blowing money on this and the "rising star" program.  What is more profitable, to keep  two  loyal 500k producers ,or pay a million plus for a million dollar producer who has jumped ship 3 times in the past.
Mr. Butler, whatever your real name is, why do you defend this company?  Did you really inherit enough accounts from the thousands that left that you feel you must defend it? John Mack does not care about you. James Gorman does not either You are a number and your clients are a number.
Enjoy the comp changes. Send me your IRA's that are going to the call centers.I wil take the 200k  rollovers in the future I hope all of you at Morgan and Merill chase the high net worth only.  That leaves a lot of business for brokers like me.
 

troll's picture
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aldo63 wrote:
All Iwant to say is that I left a year ago and it was the best business decision of my life. 
You bought high and sold low, that is unless you were asked to go a year ago...
aldo63 wrote:
What is more profitable, to keep  two  loyal 500k producers ,or pay a million plus for a million dollar producer who has jumped ship 3 times in the past.
You can do both, as last QTRs number proved.
aldo63 wrote:Mr. Butler, whatever your real name is, why do you defend this company? 
Because thus far they're doing exactly the right things. If they start doing things I disagree with, you'll hear that too.
aldo63 wrote:Enjoy the comp changes.
Will do, thanks.
 
aldo63 wrote:Send me your IRA's that are going to the call centers.
"Call centers"? You're barking up the wrong tree.
 
aldo63 wrote:I wil take the 200k  rollovers in the future I hope all of you at Morgan and Merill chase the high net worth only.  That leaves a lot of business for brokers like me.
Oh, you moved to Jones?

mktsystms's picture
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Devil'sAdvocate wrote:The age of computer literate investors is upon us.  I am at the leading edge of the baby-boomers.  For several years I have been giving my Dad laptops, but he uses his to write letters and do geneology type things.  He has no desire to invest on line, while I cannot imagine not investing on-line.  Those who are younger than me are even more comfortable doing things on their own.I suppose you also own a kitchen knife...so please tell us when you're going to do open heart surgery on yourself.

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mikebutler222 wrote:
Said as only a failed-broker cum-middle management flunky could. I hear the same speech in 1993, Schwab was going to put us all out of business.....

You have NASD Newbie pegged.
 

fritz's picture
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Spot on Aldo...I do not know how the other places work but for the most part management in these places are a bunch of idiots.  They all react to the other guy and when they have do something "original" the fuc it up.  For example last year when Morgan fired the 200-225K producers, a simple "you have one year to get to 300K" and my guess is 95% of them would have got there.  So on top of that group leaving another 500-1000 left because they thought 250-300K was next.  Instead now give nice deals to guys doing any business at all.  It is so embarassing its funny...I can only be thankful that my wife, family, and friends for the most part do not understand just how stupid this industry is.  My crystal ball is foggy, but my guess is this industry is a bad stock market decline from tipping upside down. 

troll's picture
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fritz wrote: For example last year when Morgan fired the 200-225K producers, a simple "you have one year to get to 300K" and my guess is 95% of them would have got there.  
Right, what could go wrong with telling people over LOS 11 that they had to increase their production 33 to 50% in one year to keep their jobs? Can't imagine any claims from clients that desperate brokers screwed them to keep their jobs. Nah, that would happen. Besides, what's to be gained, how could the firm's culture be improved just by culling habitual underperformers? We should have told the shareholders "Hey, we decided to give the guys that haven't achieved average year four production after at least ELEVEN YEARS, another year to get on track...".
 
Sorry, Fritz, those people had to go. Should have been gone a long time ago. Them AND anyone who ran away beacuse they heard a rumor that $300k was going to be the next minimum and they felt they couldn't reach it. In fact, habitual whiners should join them.

troll's picture
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mktsystms wrote: Devil'sAdvocate wrote:The age of computer literate investors is upon us.  I am at the leading edge of the baby-boomers.  For several years I have been giving my Dad laptops, but he uses his to write letters and do geneology type things.  He has no desire to invest on line, while I cannot imagine not investing on-line.  Those who are younger than me are even more comfortable doing things on their own.I suppose you also own a kitchen knife...so please tell us when you're going to do open heart surgery on yourself.
I predict an instant youtube classic

fritz's picture
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mike, I won a dollar bet that you would respond by 8:00...5 minutes to spare!!  I was getting a little worried that you might be busy doing something important  and not respond with the time allotment.  Next time i'll bet my buddie a few more $$

troll's picture
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fritz wrote:
mike, I won a dollar bet that you would respond by 8:00...5 minutes to spare!!  I was getting a little worried that you might be busy doing something important  and not respond with the time allotment.  Next time i'll bet my buddie a few more $$

 
Seriously, Fritz, quit, please. Leave the firm, leave the business. You obviously hate both, and you current career. There has to be a place for habitual whiners and complainers. For crying out loud you don't need to drink any Kool-Aid, things aren‘t all 100% sweetness and light, but you say yourself you're unhappy and hate the business and all you do is drop little black piles of bile every time you open your yap.
I can only imagine how wide a berth the people in you office give you just to avoid the consistently negative vibes. You make the Ed Harris/ Alan Arkin windgers from Glengarry Glen Ross seem like a couple of Pollyannas.
 
See if the post office is hiring.

troll's picture
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you = your 2X

fritz's picture
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I own 10% of a horse in the Breeders Cup Classic this weekend mike...If he wins i will probably take you up on quitting...Lava Man is the horse...it will be on espn this weekend...If he wins I will "retire" at year end.  He has already banked 2,800,000 this year, this would double that...In my office i am actually pretty popular and in the bottom 1/4 of negativity.  The two "teams" who came over from SB last year and are tracking about 70% lower than they were in 2005 are by far the most bitter. 

aldo63's picture
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dear mr. butler
no i sold at the high for recruiting. 500k producer were not cut. I left on my own and took people with me. Best of all I did what you are afraid of doing.... Leaving.

troll's picture
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aldo63 wrote:
dear mr. butler
no i sold at the high for recruiting. 500k producer were not cut. I left on my own and took people with me.
Sure you did. You're a $500k producer who expresses himself like a HS drop-out. Funnier still, you hope MS and ML focus on HNW households so you can have the left-overs. Yep, that’s just how $500k producers think.
My guess is you were shown the door with the other sub-$225k achievers.
aldo63 wrote:
Best of all I did what you are afraid of doing.... Leaving.

I hope you enjoy Jones, or the bank. Personally, I’m pretty happy, this place is making great gains and the stocks and sox element is being scrubbed out of the firm’s DNA.

aldo63's picture
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I forgot mr. butler that everyone in the business and everyone on this forum is a million dollar producer but me.
I talked to every firm in town before I left and I ask them all similar questions. I ask each manager how many million dollar accounts do you have per established broker exclusive of 401k's. The answer varied from 5-10. Of course there was usually one exception in big offices. Maybe it is different in the NYC, but not here.
The other thing I noticed at Merrill(soon to be MS) is the team concept. They take one 500k  and  two 300k brokers, team them up, and call them a million dollar team.  Merrill then wants you to grow the business by hiring your own full time assistant(s). This is paid for out of your pocket. You  pay the assistant 50k. This cost you 200k in production but you grew 20%. Be prepared for this.
Do you really believe the average production numbers at MS. When I left I was in the 20 percent tile. That was at 500k. A 300k broker who also left was at the 38 percent tile of production. Did all the other brokers at Ms except the office I was in and every other office I know someone in suddenly increase their production to the BS number they are quoting. The for sale sign is in your yard and you dont even see it.
 

troll's picture
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aldo63 wrote: I ask each manager how many million dollar accounts do you have per established broker exclusive of 401k's. The answer varied from 5-10.
"Established" brokers with only 5-10 accounts >1MM? You have to be joking..you must have moved to Jones...
aldo63 wrote:
Do you really believe the average production numbers at MS. When I left I was in the 20 percent tile. That was at 500k.
I have a feeling you didn't do $500k in the 3 years prior to getting your walking papers.
aldo63 wrote:Did all the other brokers at Ms except the office I was in and every other office I know someone in suddenly increase their production to the BS number they are quoting.
It's a pretty simple figure to reach, aldo. Gross production of the entire firm, divided by the number of reps.
 
aldo63 wrote:The for sale sign is in your yard and you dont even see it.
If you say so, Ms Cleo. BTW, let's say that happened, what's the genius behind moving BEFORE such an event? So you could miss out on the stock's pop? So you could miss out on testing the waters in the new firm and, if dissatisfied, leaving and having a great reason to give your clients?
Just what rationale could there be for jumping last year UNLESS you were asked to go or feared you would be? Did you figure you were going to miss the atmosphere, the professionalism of Pursell's "stocks and sox" crew?
 

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Mr. Bulter
If you disclose who you really are, I will mail you a copy of my upfront check an trailing 12 info from morgan. I will also post your numbers on the board. I can get all your information because I still have conections who will get me your information.
I left in Oct. of last year. I was already looking for about a year before I left.One of the reasons I let in Oct vs. Jan or Feb. was that The fired my friend in August during the cuts. That pissed me off. He has a family, no compliance problems and worked there for 16 years. He actually transfered about 90% of his book. Yes they got rid of the low producers doing 200k but the also lost me, 500k, and a 300k broker. No one has replaced us or the the other brokers, 1.2 million,250,220,375, who also left. The office does 1/2 the business it did 3 years ago. Why would I want to stay at a company that  changes fee structure, payout, ect every years and will fire you at any time. Life is to short fo this.
I did not mean MS would be sold, just the retail brokers. 

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aldo63 wrote: <?:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" />
If you disclose who you really are, I will mail you a copy of my upfront check an trailing 12 info from morgan. I will also post your numbers on the board. I can get all your information because I still have conections who will get me your information.
Sure thing, pal. There’s absolutely no doubt you’re a $500k producer. BTW, did I mention I’m the King of Sweden? You fool no one who’s been in the biz over a year.
aldo63 wrote:
One of the reasons I let in Oct vs. Jan or Feb. was that The fired my friend in August during the cuts. That pissed me off. He has a family, no compliance problems and worked there for 16 years.
Under $225k after 16 years? And you think he should have been kept on? I’m glad both of you are out.
Yaldo63 wrote: Yes they got rid of the low producers doing 200k but the also lost me, 500k, and a 300k broker.
 
You’re as much of a $500k producer as Putsy’s sweater wearing dog.
 
 
aldo63 wrote:
Why would I want to stay at a company that  changes fee structure, payout, ect every years and will fire you at any time. Life is to short fo this.
 
Enjoy life at Jones, (or whatever other refuge you found) where fees structures, pays, etc don’t change (LOL) and you’ll be welcomed to be an “established broker” with only 5-10 accounts over $1MM.
 
aldo63 wrote:
I did not mean MS would be sold, just the retail brokers. 

It was understood you meant the retail arm. My points about BFD if it happens still apply.
 

wanda's picture
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Joined: 2006-09-12

ok. so what's the big news over there? has the meeting happened yet?

BrokerRecruit's picture
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It hasn't happened yet because it's not Nov. 3.  More to come tomorrow.  Other firms (granted they are fifteenth-tier firms) like Ameriprise are doing the same next month.  It will be interesting to see what happens.

wanda's picture
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I thought the announcement was being made to reps on the 2nd, and publicly the 3rd.

troll's picture
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wanda wrote:I thought the announcement was being made to reps on the 2nd, and publicly the 3rd.
Today, after the close, a town hall meeting.

BondJamesBond's picture
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 Good changes today. The worm has definetly turned in terms of what used to be called "The annual payout cut". No more pay cuts, the troops would mutiny at this point. Small/incremental pay increases. A move in the right direction, but nothing really bold and inspiring. Gorman took a question from a guy in the Bethesda MD ofc saying "And now we have a question from BATHSHEBA." Would someone tell me where the %*#%% Bathsheba is? Anyway, I think that mgmt is really going to have to make some bolder moves to stem the flow outward. They can only pay recruits 2-3X trailing 12 for so long before the chickens will come home to roost. It's SOoo much cheaper to KEEP a 500k producer than to have to buy a new one for at least 500k upfront.     

troll's picture
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BondJamesBond wrote:  The worm has definetly turned in terms of what used to be called "The annual payout cut". No more pay cuts, the troops would mutiny at this point.   
When was the last "annual pay cut"?

troll's picture
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aldo63 wrote: When I left I was in the 20 percent tile. That was at 500k.
Hey, aldo, a little birdy from NJ tells me I had you pegged to a "T"....

aldo63's picture
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I do not know an brokers or management in NJ. i did go to high school in nj back in the 70's. i also attended the wing bowl in philly a few years back. that was fun.

BondGuy's picture
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Devil'sAdvocate wrote:
Do any of you think it's possible--JUST POSSIBLE--that the big wires are attempting to deal with the relatively unprofitable retail side of their business, and if not successful will simply close all virtually all of their branches and fall back on the much more profitable institutional brokerage and investment banking?
Y'all just don't understand that in today's environment the far flung networks of retail branches are not able to justify its existence.
Clients are more and more comfortable with 800 numbers, Internet access, real-time email alerts and all the rest.  The fee based model came into existence in a frenzy to replace transaction oriented commissions which went to the discounters--next to go will be retail, replaced by call centers and highly focused, and targeted, on-line seminars and training sessions.
The retail producer is going to be given an opportunity to accept what amounts to the role of an independent, or to attempt to transfer their book to another firm, or to retire from the business.
The age of computer literate investors is upon us.  I am at the leading edge of the baby-boomers.  For several years I have been giving my Dad laptops, but he uses his to write letters and do geneology type things.  He has no desire to invest on line, while I cannot imagine not investing on-line.  Those who are younger than me are even more comfortable doing things on their own.
Think about the accounting firms.  Years ago doing individual tax returns was a large part of their business--many firms looked to their corporate clients to pay the overhead and the individual clients were the profit.
Enter H&R Block kiosks in malls and Turbo-Tax.  How did the "Big Eight" frms adapt?  They consolidated and closed offices.  If you didn't have the personality and skills to be an institutional accountant you drifted to other work.
The only constant in business is change.

Yawn...How many times do we have to listen to this? What was it, 1998, that we were doomed by the internet? And 10 years before that No Load Funds made us irrelevant. Yet here we are. Too dumb to know we're an anachronism. So what gives? Could it be that there will always be those who choose to pay for advice? Yeah, that could be an answer.
Here's a test I give to those who believe they've got all the answers and believe there's nothing to this money management thing:
Please answer the following:
The term "No Load" is
A. an investment term
B. an advertising term
C. a legal term
D. A and C
The correct answer is, envelope please, B.
And here's the best part; any smug do it yourselfer who doesn't know this has been had by a very slick, well executed marketing campaign that convinces them that anyone can do it. Just call the 800 number.  And the best part is, most don't know it.
I find it very entertaining that the self assured arrogant 800 number dialer has been snookered by a Madison Avenue sales pitch so slick, they don't even realize they've been sold. That's good!  A perfect con.  Answering anything but B makes them look as uniformed as they really are.   
Hey y'all, I may not be relevant, but I know a sales pitch when I hear one. That these people don't makes them what, smarter than me? 
Meanwhile, I recognize that there are those, like DA, who are capable of doing themselves without damaging themselves. The problem is, these people are few and far between. Some do real damage by convincing the unable to try it themselves, yet are not held to account when things don't work out. I met one retiree who had given up $150,000, fully one quarter of his $600,000 401K rollover, to his investment club's experts recommendations. And that was in the up market of the mid/late nineties. Along with who can are those who can't and shouldn't.
 And yes, if a pro had done that to that retiree they should have to pay the damages. At least the retiree would have recourse.
Personally I like being not pertinent. Its bad news for the competition.
And I'll pass the word to my accountant that he's a dinosaur too. I know that will upset him so much he'll pack up and retire to his second home at the Jersey shore. Or maybe he'll sell that and move full time to his horse farm in Florida. You know what, if it's Ok with you, I'm not going to say anything. I need him and so do many of my clients. The horses can wait.
                         
 
 

wanda's picture
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Joined: 2006-09-12

so, the end result is more money, no?
What's with the new discounting policy?

troll's picture
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Joined: 2004-11-29

Corrections to the MS article, in no particular order.
The penalty box is $200k, not $250k and obviously it didn't move to $300k.
The $50k no pay-out deal is for entire households under $50k (and householding rules are pretty liberal) not accounts. It's explained wrong in paragraph one, and corrected a bit in paragraph four.
They also left out a big plus. Transactional business, usually paid out at a lower rate (tier 2), will get paid out at a higher asset-based level (tier 1) on tickets over $500.

troll's picture
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Joined: 2004-11-29

aldo63 wrote:I do not know an brokers or management in NJ. i did go to high school in nj back in the 70's. i also attended the wing bowl in philly a few years back. that was fun.
 
It's OK aldo, I hear you're an OK guy, even if things didn't work out production-wise. In all seriousness, don't be bitter, and enjoy AG. We're sure enjoying our recent changes.

troll's picture
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Joined: 2004-11-29

Oh, and just as importantly, there's money for pay hikes and bonuses for admin support.

aldo63's picture
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Joined: 2006-09-11

Mike
This will be my last post on this. I do not work at AG. I did talk to them about opening an office, but they did not pay any upfront money. They did offer 100% payout for the first year and a small salary to be manager for year one.  Managers then get paid a % of the office in the future years.  If they would have offered 75% of the upfront I got, I would have went. They are a great firm with an incredible comp/retirement program and  everyone there is happy.
I am glad you did not get a pay cut. You may remember me because I was the guy who used to ask the tough questions in the town hall meetings. I was eventually told by my manager that I could not ask questions anymore over the shoutdown anymore. Finally I realized that if you cant change it. leave, which i did.I am glad they did not let anyone go. Still the majority of people over there are "dean Witter" brokers with Dean witter accounts. That is not a bad thing, they just would be happier somewhere else.

troll's picture
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Joined: 2004-11-29

aldo63 wrote:I am glad you did not get a pay cut. You may remember me because I was the guy who used to ask the tough questions in the town hall meetings. 
Sure you were aldo, it's always the guys doing $150k (with a relative axed for being long in the tooth in LOS and doing under $225k, see I do know the whole story ) that ask the "tough" questions.
The game's up, aldo, I know the rael deal from old office pals of yours and you don't need to paint any fiction of the others here. Just enjoy AG and know that the housekeeping process that we went through last year, the one that caused your departure, turned out to be a great thing.
Hey, who knows, the next time I'm in NJ if I pass through the massive mall, I may drop in and say hi.

BondJamesBond's picture
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Joined: 2006-10-21

wanda wrote:
so, the end result is more money, no?
What's with the new discounting policy? As always the full net ramifications of all the  pay changes are not entirely clear. A deliberate obfuscation I'm sure. Fa's are being asked to utilize a software program to plug in hypothetical transactions etc. to see how the new comp policies will impact them. Most likely, most FA's will experience a slight uptick in net comp. 200-300 bps. I think MS mgmt really needed to make a dramatic move, not a baby step towards a more broker centric firm. But make no mistake, this was a move in the right direction. The new(old)  discount policy (again) makes the FA share a disproportionate amount of the pain to gain biz which would normally not be gained. But again the software program will have to be utilized to crunch the full effect of this. While many firms are making bold moves to simplify, reward higher producers, and flatten the grid to equalize transactional and fee based business; MS seems to only make small steps in the right direction.  

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