Jones to RJFS --THANKYOU!
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[quote=B24][quote=Moraen] [quote=indyboy]
Yes I have an S Corp
Still miss the trips and the people. EDJ folks are down to earth[/quote]Down to earth, or dumbed down?
[/quote] Many of the people I am friends with at Jones would continue to be friends if I left. There are a lot of good people here....IQ aside. And I can say that without reservation, as I have a good friend that left Jones late last year, and we continue to include him in non-Jones get-togethers and people still speak well of him at Jones gatherings. [/quote]
I don't think you know how amazing that last part is.
He also did it the right way. He was a good guy through the end. Never bad-mouthed the firm. I see a lot of people leave Jones, but towards the last few months, they start bad-mouthing Jones, talking about how bad a firm they are, how dumb their methods are, how they can’t feed their family (as if their production is Jones’ fault), etc. Those are the people that most of us never maintain relationships with. That kind of stuff puts a bad taste in your mouth.
Also, we just don't have a lot of vindictive or spiteful people in my circle at Jones. Not to say it doesn't happen elsewhere. We also don't have a lot of long-time vets. The first broker in our region started about 18 years ago. We have a few in the 15-18 year. Many in the 10-15 year range. Lots under 10 years. So not as much Jones "heritage" in my region.Down to earth, or dumbed down?
I would say both after reading Spiff’s version of the benefits of Jones manual on the previous page. Anyone dumb enough to pontificate about the wonders of their company has me baffled. Once could reasonably assume he couldn’t sell himself as much as his company.I would congratulate him that he has found his niche. I doubt he could attain 1M in production anywhere but Jones in 10 years…
[quote=BigCheese]Did you hit your bogey today?
[/quote] Yes. Today's and tomorrow's actually.I remember after I left Edward Jones-- I got calls and office visits from Jones reps literally around the country. The questions were all centered around one issue: "Is it really better?" "Why is it better?" They wanted to see the technology, the bond inventory, the research, etc... Some of these folks eventually left Jones and all I know of are MUCH happier; however, some are still at Jones today. I believe these people are restrained by fear. Fear of the unknown is a great motivator and simultaneous creator of complacency....
It has always puzzled me why any veteran financial advisor would ever remain at Jones. I mean seriously...there is simply no good business reason. To remain at Jones is throwing money down the drain. To spend your career there places you and your family in a lesser financial position in more ways than one; however, it is the essence of what makes the Jones model a profitable one. No stockholder dividends, debt is LP (love it...which the firm makes you feel like you are getting something great) which you cannot keep when you retire. It is a great business model, but just for the business itself. Somewhere...something has to give. Unfortunately, most of the giving is done by the Financial Advisor. Yet, somehow the "greatest salesforce" in the industry remains convinced that they are getting a great deal. Amazing. The fact remains that Jones has done a remarkable job of building a brand loyalty. Perhaps better than any other company in the financial services industry. Why else would Jones reps vote their firm "#1 in RR survey" and near the top in "the best companies to work for?" It's because the financial advisors truly feel they are getting the best deal at the best firm in the industry. They are so certain they are doing all the right things as did the Jim Jones followers before they drank the magic juice. Yep, just as sure as an islamic extremeist believes he will spend eternity with 27 virgins, the Jones rep feels he belongs to something wonderful that no one else has. Hats off..or should I say bottoms up...to Edward Jones. Jones reps feel this way because they are taught that they are the best of the best even before they look at their first ICA mountain chart. Regardless of what field or background you came from, you are taught that the Jones way is the best way. You are taught the history of the firm and made to feel as if you are a part of something really special. They do a fantastic job of somehow isolating themselves from everyone else--and that includes the isolation of the Jones Financial Advisor. This isolation which we make fun of the Jones rep for "drinking the kool-aid" is the very essence of the Jones model upon which their foundation is built. It is my hope that others who read this thread will continue to step out of their kool aid induced stupor and realize that they have worked too hard and too long in a very difficult business. They owe it to themselves and to their families to afford themselves better than what Edward Jones brings to the table. It can be RJ, Commonwealth, LPL as it doesn't matter as much. What matters is the grass on the other side of the fence really is greener and you will wonder why it took you so long to climb over it.You do realize that I’ve created a character on this forum, right?
Sorry I didn't know this was about fiction. I thought this was supposed to be a forum where we could learn from each other. I realize you like to make yourself look smarter at my expense, but when you keep spouting the same thing over and over, it doesn't really help your case. Had I realized that all you want is conversation, I would have quit long ago. Try reading Zackos comments above. Does that sound mean spirited? Now all you do is try to figure out a way to make some sort of comments about me. To me that just makes you, along with uwec and the occasional comment from spears, pitiful. You need help. You spend way too much time on these forums and you are right about one thing, I won't continue this since you admit you have created a character and for you it apparently is all about f___cking with people. I hope the newbies on this forum read this, because they think you know what you are talking about. Pitiful.With Zacko's comment, I will sign off. Starting my 4th year with LPL and not once has a thought of moving/changing firms occured(weekly/daily at EDJ). If you don't investigate going Indy, IMO, you are making a huge career mistake. Good luck to all.
Spiffy,
I haven't attacked you at all, I've presented the idea that ANYONE at EJ with more than $20mil in assets is costing themselves money. I've also addressed the hypocrisy of EJ's and your position that EJ is way more ethical than the rest of the planet. I don't feel bad about being responsible for putting a light on EJ's revenue sharing issues and EJ's actions cost them $202 mil. EJ knows who I am but I haven't heard anything from their lawyers so I can assume they just figured the information was accurate. The debate issues are: 1. Is EJ a great place to start: YES 2. Does EJ imply the FA is running his own business: YES 3. Is EJ a great training ground for going Indy: YES 4. EJ tells the world they are better for clients and doesn't do bad MFD stuff, is that true: NO 5. Does EJ keep about 95% of the Rev. Sharing $ but discourages FA's from annuitizing their book: YES 6. Does EJ give you a haircut on your VA's of .75 - 1.25 bps: YES 7. Can you go Indy run a "Jones" office, increase your net but 20 - 40% with the same risk: YES 8. If you go Indy can you use the same volunteer hours EJ expects out of you to do the additional admin. work it takes to run an Indy office vs. EJ: YES 9. Is EJ a bunch of big fat liars: YES (ok...that was a joke) 10. Once you leave EJ do you find out a lot about what was really wrong with the culture of EJ: YES 11. Are A-shares always better for the client as EJ states: NO 12. Is EJ extremely limited in their VA products: YES 13. At EJ, do you have to pay for (TP, part of phones, pens, postage, etc, etc): YES 14. Is part of the BOA's job to spy on the FA: YES 15. Does it really cost $1,325 every month for the Jones tech.: NO 16. Did Doug Hill get fired because of me: YES Need I go on? Spiffy...get a clue...buy a vowel...something. The personal attacks have come from you, not me. I have simply debated the issues...if you don't have a leg to stand on...I suggest you say nothing.[quote=BigCheese]You do realize that I’ve created a character on this forum, right?
Sorry I didn't know this was about fiction. I thought this was supposed to be a forum where we could learn from each other. I realize you like to make yourself look smarter at my expense, but when you keep spouting the same thing over and over, it doesn't really help your case. Had I realized that all you want is conversation, I would have quit long ago. Try reading Zackos comments above. Does that sound mean spirited? Now all you do is try to figure out a way to make some sort of comments about me. To me that just makes you, along with uwec and the occasional comment from spears, pitiful. You need help. You spend way too much time on these forums and you are right about one thing, I won't continue this since you admit you have created a character and for you it apparently is all about f___cking with people. I hope the newbies on this forum read this, because they think you know what you are talking about. Pitiful.[/quote] What exactly do you think people are going to learn from you and I going back and forth about how good/bad EDJ is? You're not going to change my mind and I'm not going to change yours. It's really pretty stupid. I try really hard with people besides you and uwec and occasionally spears to try to tell the good and bad parts about Jones. Folks like yourself who have very little reason for coming on here besides trying to get everyone at Jones to "step out of their kool aid induced stupor" are the reason I come across very often as so pro-Jones. I don't come here everyday thinking about how I can get someone to think one way or another. In fact, most of the comments I make about Jones are in response to a negative comment. There happen to be a lot of negative comments, so I have plenty of material to work with. I hope the newbies do read this stuff. I hope they are smart enough to know that the truth about Jones vs indy is somewhere in the middle between what I say and what you say. I believe there are some people who just simply aren't cut out to be an independant advisor. There is absolutely an opportunity cost to staying with Jones or Morgan Stanley or Merrill Lynch. There is an opportunity cost for being an employee vs being the owner in any business. It absolutely doesn't mean that your quality of life is going to suffer if you remain an employee. However, it will mean that the owner of the company will have more money than you do. That's just business. To some it makes more sense to be the business owner, but others are just as happy being the employee. Zacko's original post was not mean spirited, much. I'm still not sure why he felt the need to break the silence and say it, but whatever. Zacko's last post with comments about Jim Jones and Islamic terrorists, however, were mean spirited. He's the exact antithesis of the guy that B24 said he is still friends with. LET IT GO.There is an opportunity cost for being an employee vs being the owner in any business. It absolutely doesn’t mean that your quality of life is going to suffer if you remain an employee.
I think this is the bottom line. Jones is not "bad". They are simply an employer, just like Bank of America, MSSB, Wells Fargo, and UBS (and all the regionals). I think I read somewhere that there are like 90,000 RReps at the major captive firms. They can't all be "wrong". They simply choose to be employees. As Spiff said, some people will NEVER be business owners, even if theya re very good at selling and being an advisor. Some people could actually be very GOOD business owners, but are too scared to make the leap. In any case, the whole argument is sort of silly. However, I think JOnes' business model prepares FA's better than almost any other firm for independant life. Their very strength is also their biggest weakness. Although they also try to force-feed a model that makes the leap to indy tough to stomach for vets (bringing on many hundreds, sometimes 1000's of clients).Those of you who are independent and seek to grow not just by assets, but by people as well…
I think you would do well to learn the lesson that Jones teaches. You should try to create an environment that encourages people to take ownership. Do you want EVERYBODY to be independent?
I don’t. I like having people to work with clients that I don’t want. But I also like the revenue.
While the Jones culture is certainly not one I am a big fan of, others are. It suits them. Jones knows they won’t be the right place for everybody.
Just like I won’t be the right place for everybody (apparently not even close).
Seriously, I just had a meeting where I basically talked about how great our firm was and how different we were and why people should come to us for advice.
That’s what firms DO. Do you think I’m going to talk about how great all of the other indy advisors are?
Look, I have my issues with Jones, but the fact that they are trying to grow their business and create loyal followers is not one of them.
Often, it’s just how they go about it. But that’s their choice. I don’t believe they are an evil organization.
I think this is pointless talk.
[quote=Spaceman Spiff][quote=uwec1986]Spiffy,
You mention the CPA's, etc...how many of the Jones offices are new guys with not clients or assets...hmmm...2400 new brokers added to the Jones roster every year... The discussion is about both what good for the client and for your family. EJ has a limited menu, and that's ok but Indy offices can offer more. If you go Indy, you'll most likely do what the rest of us old EJ folks do...Run and EJ office for the 1st year or longer. You are not required to change your approach...if you think EJ's limited menu is great...keep using it in your Indy office...and you'll net 30% more with no more risk to you or your clients. At this stage in your career...what is Jones doing for you to get the huge cut of your production? [/quote] I understand that indy offices CAN offer more. But for the most part, it's just a variation on a theme. Stocks vs bonds in some form or fashion. Whatever fancy title you put on it, it is what it is. With the exception of a rare client or two who asked about options, there hasn't been anything from an investment standpoint that ANY client or prospect has asked me about that I can't handle. Most people don't even know things like private REITS exist. They think they're pretty fancy when they buy a preferred stock or a closed ended fund. [/quote] You shouldn't even be thinking about "can I handle this investment request from this prospect/client?". They shouldn't even be asking you about products. You should be the one going to them with ideas on products, and you should want to have a nice product line to offer them. Who gives a sh!t if clients don't know what a private REIT is? Very few of my clients did before I sold it to them. Its your job to know what it is, not theirs. Its funny that you say that no one has come to you with an investment question about a product that you haven't been able to handle. That should go without saying. Wouldn't it be great one day to be able to control how your clients accounts do at the end of the year, without worrying if the fund manager for AWSHX or AGTHX is on his game?Rarely do I have a client ask me about a product other than gold. Twice, no three times today I had a conversation about gold. It's actually rare for me to have a client ask me about any investments. I'm normally the one telling them about ideas. Just because I said I didn't have anyone asking me about things I can't handle doesn't mean that I'm not the one calling the shots in my office.
I'll go back to my original comment that at the end of the day this business is about stocks vs bonds. Period. Whatever variation we put out there, it's still about owning an equity stake or loaning your money to someone. Access to alternative investments, IMHO, is only important if that's the business you want to be in. If you like spending your time researching, calling, explaining, tracking, etc those kind of things, knock yourself out. I don't. I think clients are more concerned with what we do not how we do it. They're much more concerned with retiring, college, weddings, and estate planning than learning about a new product from me. At least that's what I've found with my clients. Would it be helpful for that one prospect or client out there that is, I'll say bored, with the traditional approach to have something new and exciting in my back pocket? Maybe. But I'm not going to switch firms because Jones has a traditional investing approach. Would it be great to control my clients accounts? Absolutely. Of course I could only buy fixed annuities for them and I could do that all day long. I could buy ETFs and not have to worry about money managers at all. BTW, Wash Mutual and Growth Fund are team managed. Just FYI in case you forgot.[quote=Spaceman Spiff]
Rarely do I have a client ask me about a product other than gold. Twice, no three times today I had a conversation about gold. It’s actually rare for me to have a client ask me about any investments. I’m normally the one telling them about ideas. Just because I said I didn’t have anyone asking me about things I can’t handle doesn’t mean that I’m not the one calling the shots in my office.
I'll go back to my original comment that at the end of the day this business is about stocks vs bonds. Period. Whatever variation we put out there, it's still about owning an equity stake or loaning your money to someone. Access to alternative investments, IMHO, is only important if that's the business you want to be in. If you like spending your time researching, calling, explaining, tracking, etc those kind of things, knock yourself out. I don't. I think clients are more concerned with what we do not how we do it. They're much more concerned with retiring, college, weddings, and estate planning than learning about a new product from me. At least that's what I've found with my clients. Would it be helpful for that one prospect or client out there that is, I'll say bored, with the traditional approach to have something new and exciting in my back pocket? Maybe. But I'm not going to switch firms because Jones has a traditional investing approach. Would it be great to control my clients accounts? Absolutely. Of course I could only buy fixed annuities for them and I could do that all day long. I could buy ETFs and not have to worry about money managers at all. BTW, Wash Mutual and Growth Fund are team managed. Just FYI in case you forgot. [/quote]Spiff, I used to be with you on the stocks v. bonds theme. Since then I have come to the realization the portfolios are less volatile with commodities and real estate components in them. If that makes the clients more likely to stay with the portfolios we put in place for them, it serves THE CLIENT very well.
My RL trained me to believe that mid and small cap stock funds were unnecessary as well. I have since come to the realization that he was wrong. Ignoring multiple asset classes serves the advisor well more so than THE CLIENT. (i.e. it's too hard to keep track of all that stuff).
[quote=Spaceman Spiff]Rarely do I have a client ask me about a product other than gold. Twice, no three times today I had a conversation about gold. It’s actually rare for me to have a client ask me about any investments. I’m normally the one telling them about ideas. Just because I said I didn’t have anyone asking me about things I can’t handle doesn’t mean that I’m not the one calling the shots in my office.
I'll go back to my original comment that at the end of the day this business is about stocks vs bonds. Period. Whatever variation we put out there, it's still about owning an equity stake or loaning your money to someone. Access to alternative investments, IMHO, is only important if that's the business you want to be in. If you like spending your time researching, calling, explaining, tracking, etc those kind of things, knock yourself out. I don't. I think clients are more concerned with what we do not how we do it. They're much more concerned with retiring, college, weddings, and estate planning than learning about a new product from me. At least that's what I've found with my clients. [/quote] Then get them to their goals quicker. You're not going to find opportunties with global infrastructure, ChIndia, base metals, communication & technology inside American funds or Advisory Solutions. You can buy ETF's all you want in regular brokerage accounts but will clients be ok with paying commissions on every trade? How can you possibly do whats best for a client if you can't use fee-based accounts that allow you to actually pick the investments. Your fee based model is basically a retirement lifecycle mutual fund. [quote=Spaceman Spiff]Would it be helpful for that one prospect or client out there that is, I'll say bored, with the traditional approach to have something new and exciting in my back pocket? Maybe. But I'm not going to switch firms because Jones has a traditional investing approach. [/quote] Buy and hold is for losers. It's the lazy way to invest and over the past 10 years hasn't worked. Its for investors and investment professionals that don't want to do the research necessary to find the tactical opportunities that will get the extra couple percent per year that will help the clients goals be reached. [quote=Spaceman Spiff]Would it be great to control my clients accounts? Absolutely. Of course I could only buy fixed annuities for them and I could do that all day long. I could buy ETFs and not have to worry about money managers at all. BTW, Wash Mutual and Growth Fund are team managed. Just FYI in case you forgot. [/quote] I meant for it to mean "control how the clients year-end statement looks, as far as the bottom line goes". You know why Edward Jones wants you to use the buy and hold approach? Because they don't want you doing actual research that will make you more knowledgable because it will take away time for you to go knock on doors. The clients you got 6 months ago are suffering from your lack of knowledge so you can have a few hours extra each day to get your quota of contacts. If you simply do a great job of getting superior performance then you'll get enough referrals to keep you from needing to knock all day. The company doesn't get a higher profit from you knowing actual market tactics, they get a higher profit by you knocking 8 hours a day. THE COMPANY gets more. But its YOUR business!!I have been considering Edward Jones for quite some time, after 10+ years in the business as primarily a wholesaler (with Jones as my main account) and an equities trader.
I wanted to see if anyone had any detailed info on the different programs available (PASS, legacy, and goodnight). If you had your choice of the 3, which one would you pick? Also, anyone know what the different seg levels make on ave? I have heard some pretty questionable claims, and was hoping someone had some insight. Any info would be greatly appreciated!! ThanksJAM99 you’re treading in the wrong thread with questions like this. You’d be best served heading over to the rookie board. You are seeing things that a child should not see about Jones inside this thread.
I meant for it to mean “control how the clients year-end statement looks, as far as the bottom line goes”. You know why Edward Jones wants you to use the buy and hold approach? Because they don’t want you doing actual research that will make you more knowledgable because it will take away time for you to go knock on doors. The clients you got 6 months ago are suffering from your lack of knowledge so you can have a few hours extra each day to get your quota of contacts. If you simply do a great job of getting superior performance then you’ll get enough referrals to keep you from needing to knock all day. The company doesn’t get a higher profit from you knowing actual market tactics, they get a higher profit by you knocking 8 hours a day. THE COMPANY gets more. But its YOUR business!!
a lil girl that built his business with fish bowls is judging? when you work for a real firm let us know and then you can give advice. YUP
Haven't done a lunch and learn in almost 2 years. Being on a platinum team for Ameriprise on the P2 side is as independent as I need to be, only thing we don't get is diverse choice of annuities. I'm ok with that. Which heavyhitter are you hawking stocks for, clown?[quote=3rdyrp2] I meant for it to mean “control how the clients year-end statement looks, as far as the bottom line goes”. You know why Edward Jones wants you to use the buy and hold approach? Because they don’t want you doing actual research that will make you more knowledgable because it will take away time for you to go knock on doors. The clients you got 6 months ago are suffering from your lack of knowledge so you can have a few hours extra each day to get your quota of contacts. If you simply do a great job of getting superior performance then you’ll get enough referrals to keep you from needing to knock all day. The company doesn’t get a higher profit from you knowing actual market tactics, they get a higher profit by you knocking 8 hours a day. THE COMPANY gets more. But its YOUR business!! [/quote]
a lil girl that built his business with fish bowls is judging? when you work for a real firm let us know and then you can give advice. YUP