Huge Team Leaves ML!

62 replies [Last post]
saveteran's picture
Offline
Joined: 2008-10-24

One of the biggest teams in NY (7 people) with almost $2 billion left ML today for UBS. The same office also lost the guy who ran the POA program in that office also to UBS. 

bancofamigo's picture
Offline
Joined: 2008-04-05

Large team in Houston and another huge team in ATL also. All to UBS.

Indyone's picture
Offline
Joined: 2005-05-30

Out of the frying pan...into the fire...

JoeNatlanta's picture
Offline
Joined: 2008-12-15

so they finally figured out what the rest of the country had already figured out? ubs is the big winner here...taking over 1000 advisors across the country in a major major market share shift...the advisors going there are not small...

they took a team in dallas from goldman i've heard that did $10m in production...looking for some verification on this one, but heard it from more than one person

bancofamigo's picture
Offline
Joined: 2008-04-05

ATL - you are correct. I misspoke about Houston. It was Dallas. Don't know about the production, although I heard it is big. UBS has dealt with its problems early on. They still have the media stuff with the DOJ but the platform and the firm are rock solid and it is more conducive than any firm to the non-proprietary model. They all have freckles, though. UBS is just fortunate that it has powder in its keg to act in an environment which encourages FA's to do some soul searching while firms through their FA's under the bus.

tmoney47's picture
Offline
Joined: 2008-09-17

im on a huge team at ml in the tri state area and they are talking about leaving as well. my brother is at ubs in nyc and he says the door there is wide open with ms and ml teams coming over.(im at the tail end of poa)
unbelievable how my team and my manager TODAY reinforced bringing in net new money into ml.  i'm curious to see how senior fa's think the industry with ml in mind will be in the next 6 months to a year.

monopolybet's picture
Offline
Joined: 2008-10-18

OH, none of them are going the EDJ? they have a new wonderful transfer broker plan??

mnbondguy's picture
Offline
Joined: 2008-05-13

Sad when UBS is now the top place to go.  They never seemed to have a good reputation, have they gotten better, or is it that just everybody else has gotten worse, and they write the biggest checks?

Amp2Indy2006's picture
Offline
Joined: 2008-08-13

What is going to happen when UBS needs to sell the USA ops to remain afloat?  Last I checked, there are no stolen treasures from tyranny left.
 

Every independent rep should place the following full page ad:
 
NO BAILOUT REQUIRED!
 
(insert Indy firm name here)
(insert Indy Registered address here)
 

Indyone's picture
Offline
Joined: 2005-05-30

mnbondguy wrote:Sad when UBS is now the top place to go.  They never seemed to have a good reputation, have they gotten better, or is it that just everybody else has gotten worse, and they write the biggest checks?
 
I would guess "B".  I had a friend at UBS... and based on what he told me, no way in hell would I go to work for them.  Then again, no way in hell would I ever go back to working for anybody.  I wonder how long it will take for all the Merrill guys jumping to UBS to regret that move...

WSxAG's picture
Offline
Joined: 2007-08-23

When their upfront $ are gone and they still stucj with the taxes . . .

Lew Ashby's picture
Offline
Joined: 2009-01-13

bancofamigo wrote:ATL - you are correct. I misspoke about Houston. It was Dallas. Don't know about the production, although I heard it is big. UBS has dealt with its problems early on. They still have the media stuff with the DOJ but the platform and the firm are rock solid and it is more conducive than any firm to the non-proprietary model. They all have freckles, though. UBS is just fortunate that it has powder in its keg to act in an environment which encourages FA's to do some soul searching while firms through their FA's under the bus.
 
There was indeed a huge team in Houston that just moved to UBS.  I confirmed that today.  This avalanche of recruits is an incredible coup for UBS, a firm which is will continue to get better and continue to attract top talent.
 
Like the US stock market, UBS was the first to deal with our unbelievably stupid investment banking mistakes, and it was quite painful for us in wealth management, believe me.  But ever since I moved to UBS three years ago (from EJ, I might add), the firm has been in constant improvement mode.  It puzzles me that for some reason we don't rank that high in ANY of the broker surveys, but I think we can all agree that the surveys are suspect at best.
 
I know I sound like a homer here, but you have to tip your hat to UBS!

CDO Squared's picture
Offline
Joined: 2009-01-20

what will biz look like in one year?   no one knows.

grab some security.

now.   put money in your wife names

HymanRoth's picture
Offline
Joined: 2008-08-25

Lew Ashby wrote:bancofamigo wrote:ATL - you are correct. I misspoke about Houston. It was Dallas. Don't know about the production, although I heard it is big. UBS has dealt with its problems early on. They still have the media stuff with the DOJ but the platform and the firm are rock solid and it is more conducive than any firm to the non-proprietary model. They all have freckles, though. UBS is just fortunate that it has powder in its keg to act in an environment which encourages FA's to do some soul searching while firms through their FA's under the bus.
 
There was indeed a huge team in Houston that just moved to UBS.  I confirmed that today.  This avalanche of recruits is an incredible coup for UBS, a firm which is will continue to get better and continue to attract top talent.
 
Like the US stock market, UBS was the first to deal with our unbelievably stupid investment banking mistakes, and it was quite painful for us in wealth management, believe me.  But ever since I moved to UBS three years ago (from EJ, I might add), the firm has been in constant improvement mode.  It puzzles me that for some reason we don't rank that high in ANY of the broker surveys, but I think we can all agree that the surveys are suspect at best.
 
I know I sound like a homer here, but you have to tip your hat to UBS! You don't sound like a homer....just a naive idiot.  Just because they 'suck less' than the other wirehouses doesn't mean they don't suck.They were in 'constant improvement mode' when I left about 4 years ago....Once the rosy feeling is done from those big front checks, it will be interesting to see how people feel when they have to deal with UBS back office incompetence and the Swiss compliance people.

rep_rep's picture
Offline
Joined: 2009-01-04

It was Dallas TX UBS that just had a team come over from Goldman:
5 man team, 5 billion in asset, 50 or so clients, 30 million in production.
 
That must have been a nice check...

fritz's picture
Offline
Joined: 2006-01-11

rep_rep wrote:
It was Dallas TX UBS that just had a team come over from Goldman:
5 man team, 5 billion in asset, 50 or so clients, 30 million in production.
 
That must have been a nice check...[/quote

Now thats a team!! alway laugh when you have a team of 3 or 4 doing a million or a little over..really 3 or 4 pikers but added up they sound important

Hydeho's picture
Offline
Joined: 2007-02-23

Ferris Bueller wrote:S&P just downgraded UBS to a sell.I think the IRS is about to downgrade to strong sell!!ROFLMAO!!UBS faces wider U.S. tax case: WSJ

By Sam Mamudi
Last update: 8:07 a.m. EST Jan. 26, 2009
Comments: 12

NEW YORK (MarketWatch) -- U.S. prosecutors are expanding their investigation into whether Swiss bank UBS UBS 12.26,
-0.18,
-1.4%)

helped tens of thousands Americans avoid paying taxes, according to
Monday's edition of The Wall Street Journal. The Journal said tax
investigators believe that UBS helped many more than the 17,000 people
that was initially estimated. The paper added that several people
involved in the case said UBS is in talks with the Justice Department
to avert a possible felony indictment by admitting to criminal conduct
and paying a penalty of about $1.2 billion.

HymanRoth's picture
Offline
Joined: 2008-08-25

It's hard for me to understand why a successful advisor would want to move to a firm that is under investigation for tax evasion....

WSxAG's picture
Offline
Joined: 2007-08-23

Didn't hurt the incoming Treasury Secretary

Sportsfreakbob's picture
Offline
Joined: 2008-08-24

HymanRoth wrote:It's hard for me to understand why a successful advisor would want to move to a firm that is under investigation for tax evasion....
In addition to which, if they really did this - tens of thousands?? - how could a firm be so dumb as to think they could get away with that.

Lew Ashby's picture
Offline
Joined: 2009-01-13

You don't sound like a homer....just a naive idiot.  Just because they 'suck less' than the other wirehouses doesn't mean they don't suck.They were in 'constant improvement mode' when I left about 4 years ago....Once the rosy feeling is done from those big front checks, it will be interesting to see how people feel when they have to deal with UBS back office incompetence and the Swiss compliance people.
 
Hmmm, "naive idiot".  I was wondering how many posts I would have in this forum before some angry low-life would insult me after a perfectly mature and honest post....didn't even get to 10 total.  Don't I even get some props from you for being EX-Jones???  Didn't think so.
 
As far as UBS being in constant improvement mode-- It's better than being in constant deterioration mode like a few other firms I know of.  You can't possibly fault a firm for improving itself can you?
 
 

tmoney47's picture
Offline
Joined: 2008-09-17

the best critics of ML are employees of UBS.   i work at ML.  still the best platform on the street.  however management is a joke(just like everywhere else).  when it comes down to servicing big clients, they come to ML, and then the advisor transfers to a competitor to get paid.  all the wirehouses are going through major transformation, ml, ms, sb, and ubs.  ubs has been quiet for some months now.  they were hit huge with losses just like everyone else.  the swiss goverment bailed them out just like the us did to the u.s. wirehouses.  what people have forgotten is the tax evasion!  do you actually think that the u.s. goverment is going to let that pass by??  How about some of the funds that were invested with Madoff??  they will be spun off or sold.  in the summer, this hit the news.  also recently it agained resurfaced.    if ubs so was great, why would they be offering such ridiculous packages?  there would be no need to garner so much interest. ubs is smart in their short term strategy. 

bondo's picture
Offline
Joined: 2007-04-15

The article I saw on Fund Fire this morning had two teams, both originally from Goldman, and did a combined 46mm in production.  That hurts.

bancofamigo's picture
Offline
Joined: 2008-04-05

UBS was making up for lost ground since, as you said, they had some news issues which was hurting them.  The media have been reporting the Tax probe issue regarding some folks in Switzerland.  UBS' head stepped down and the board put the UBS America head in charge (Marten Hoekstra) of the whole company.  The board is well aware of the issue yet the still put the US guy in the chair.  UBS also dealt with the CDO stuff early on while there was still somewhat of a market.  The Swiss government did put in $16 Billion and UBS ended its dividend.If UBS is looking to sell - to whom would that be?  that dance is over and the chairs are gone.  UBS is around 40% of the GDP of Switzerland.  Banking is over 70%.  UBS USA (Wealth Management) is a smaller part of the whole.Their new planning platform rivals any trust department or private bank.  They are not building some monolithic culture like some other places.  They are trying to build an open architecture firm.Everyone has their freckles, but it seems that UBS' are fading.  Of course in this world that doesn't mean they won't be front page tomorrow.  The idea that they are just willy-nilly throwing big checks out simply doesn't make sense.  Firms don't make money on folks with the upfront being paid until into the deal.  That is long term, not short.

ABOM's picture
Offline
Joined: 2008-11-01

So I heard MS is looking for some payback-

Offering 180% (260 all in) upfront for UBS advisors (1q guys I assume). Anyone else confirm this?

tmoney47's picture
Offline
Joined: 2008-09-17

did the head of ubs's wealth management 'step down' or is he a wanted fugitive by the F.B.I.??

Reggin's picture
Offline
Joined: 2005-09-03

ABOM wrote: So I heard MS is looking for some payback-

Offering 180% (260 all in) upfront for UBS advisors (1q guys I assume). Anyone else confirm this?

That would be too funny if many UBS guys went to MS and vice versa. Sweet shell game.

bancofamigo's picture
Offline
Joined: 2008-04-05

He stepped down when the charges were announced last year "to properly defend himself."  By this year, as talks between the US Treasury and the Swiss Government (the two's laws differ on providing client names and tax evasion) and between the DOJ and UBS, the Former head did not come back to America and was declared a fugitive.  He is living in his home in Switzerland.

MLsinkingship's picture
Offline
Joined: 2009-01-31

Hate to break it to you guys but Merrill like my name implies is a sinking ship.  They, meaning BofA, are cutting the bottom 25-30% and the top 25-30% are running into the arms of UBS and MS and other firms.  The Thundering Herd is thundering out of the damn building.  Other firms are laughing at the few that are staying.  Merrill offices across the country are being decimated by layoffs and top producers walking.  A year or so from now they should be about 10% maybe 15% of the current assets under management.  If you are there still I have one word for you that will the single most important career move.  LEAVE, or RUN, or GET THE HELL OUT OF THERE.  Ok the last one wasnt one word but you get the picture.  BofA did such a wonderful and brilliant job of wealth management pre-Merrill, NOT, they are going to do just a little bit better.  You are on a sinking ship and it is time for you to do what I have done and leave.  You still have time to get on with one of the NEW top 5, if you wait for everybody else to go you wont get as good deal.  I jumped off and havent regretted it, i was actually relieved.  Prospects were increasingly hesitant to do business with me in the last couple of weeks, mainly b/c they had been watching the news.  BofA is running this into the ground.  I have a friend still there pretty high up but about to finalize his departure.  If you are in the Virginia, NC, SC, Georgia, FL area and you are a small office you are about to be cut.  He is leaving mainly b/c he is sick of laying off peope that dont deserve it.  He told me that within those five states they are going to cut about 30% of the total workforce by Feb. 14.  Happy Valentines Day!!!!!!!  If i were you I would make plans now.  Dont say you werent warned or didnt see this coming.  BofA could give a you know what about loyalty.

mydogisgoldie's picture
Offline
Joined: 2008-06-11

As a Client Associate, I would really like to know from what source your friend gets his information from regarding job cuts in the Southeast.  I am in a small office (college town) and the other CA and I are terrified for our jobs. 

Hank Moody's picture
Offline
Joined: 2008-11-10

mydogisgoldie wrote:As a Client Associate, I would really like to know from what source your friend gets his information from regarding job cuts in the Southeast.  I am in a small office (college town) and the other CA and I are terrified for our jobs.  Is your dog Jewish?

mojo99's picture
Offline
Joined: 2007-07-22

MLsinkingship wrote: Dont say you werent warned or didnt see this coming.  BofA could give a you know what about loyalty.

But the other wirehouses, they're like family. They would never fire you, change payout, or do anything to boost the bottom line if it meant someone had to be put out of a job...

I understand now that UBS and MS don't hire you, they adopt you. Now that's love.

bigboy's picture
Offline
Joined: 2009-01-14

The cuts are everywhere not just Southeast.  You should be scared.  You will know by the 6th whether you have a job or not.  That is when CA's will find out nationally if they have been cut.  The names have already been chosen, they just have not told anyone yet.  Basically alot of dead man walking in all size offices.  I think that SMO are safe for now.  However, they may be the next to be consolidated, etc.

MLsinkingship's picture
Offline
Joined: 2009-01-31

these others are right.  BofA uses something called six sigma, not sure you have ever heard of it but it is a computer system used to determine workers worth to an organization.  lots of companies use it.  anyways  the person i heard this from is one that is doing a lot of the firing.  its not his choice but he doesnt have a book anymore himself and makes a huge salary so they are making him do the dirty work.  he is actually in talks with his old firm about coming back as is most of the people in his complex.   anyways i would start looking if i were you.   if you wait, well, you can figure it out from there.  they will not spare anybody right now.  the only reason BofA isnt cutting everybody at the same time is, public relations.  their name has been dragged through the mud the past couple of weeks laying off 10,000 people at once wouldnt improve it.  so they are laying off 1,000 at a time.  i wouldnt be surprised you come in monday and more people in your office are cut.  they started with pmd's now that they slaughtered them they are moving onto CA's and POA's.  i am not trying to scare you to death i just want you to have a heads up.  once you leave relief will shower over you.  i have had sooo many people tell me that even the ones who got laid off. 

howie's picture
Offline
Joined: 2008-04-14

MLsinkingship,
 
You reak of hidden agenda...

fritz's picture
Offline
Joined: 2006-01-11

Buddie of mine on a 4 person team of about 2 million.  Client called them late last week asked them if they received any form of bonus or $$$ in the last 2 months.  They explained yes but it was "retention."  Client cut them off and said "I am pulling my account(s)".  6 Accounts worth 11 million gone.  Can imagine that is not the only story like that going around.

fritz's picture
Offline
Joined: 2006-01-11

iceco1d wrote:fritz wrote:Buddie of mine on a 4 person team of about 2 million.  Client called them late last week asked them if they received any form of bonus or $$$ in the last 2 months.  They explained yes but it was "retention."  Client cut them off and said "I am pulling my account(s)".  6 Accounts worth 11 million gone.  Can imagine that is not the only story like that going around.
 
Not calling you a liar...but maybe calling your budd a liar.  Perhaps a handy excuse for losing a big client. 
 
Lost the accounts, some where managed and down 50+ last 14 months; sure that had something to do with it..but no chance he made up that bonus money coming up part; my guess is client wanted out and made that a convenient excuse to get out, or it "was the straw that broke the camels back" type of thing.

BE PATIENT's picture
Offline
Joined: 2009-01-16

Client left because of retention? Great client. My clients want to do business with a successful well paid advisor. You think they want to do business with a struggling rookie. I have an $8,000 watch which was a gift from my wife. Had a client ask about it one time and in an emberassed way said "It was a gift". Client said "Dont be embarassed, I want to do bus with a succesful person". My clients say "If you are good enough to receive a retention, I want to do bus with you"

fritz's picture
Offline
Joined: 2006-01-11

BE PATIENT wrote:Client left because of retention? Great client. My clients want to do business with a successful well paid advisor. You think they want to do business with a struggling rookie. I have an $8,000 watch which was a gift from my wife. Had a client ask about it one time and in an emberassed way said "It was a gift". Client said "Dont be embarassed, I want to do bus with a succesful person". My clients say "If you are good enough to receive a retention, I want to do bus with you"
 
Like I mentioned he had two sizeable managed accounts down nearly 60%.."Successful Well Paid" advisor probably did not care much weight, his account lost a lot of $$$.
 
 "I want to do business with a successful person,"  That logic, and they would have given Madoff every nickel they had.  I hope a naive comment like that came from yesteryear.

BE PATIENT's picture
Offline
Joined: 2009-01-16

First down 50%, now down 60%. ??. If I were a client down 60% I would leave too. Who would you want to do business with, a succesfull broker in the business 17 years or a struggling rookie that may not be there in 2 years? Not a naive comment, its just that you are prob 500k or less and jealous

fritz's picture
Offline
Joined: 2006-01-11

BE PATIENT wrote:First down 50%, now down 60%. ??. If I were a client down 60% I would leave too. Who would you want to do business with, a succesfull broker in the business 17 years or a struggling rookie that may not be there in 2 years? Not a naive comment, its just that you are prob 500k or less and jealous
 
"down 50+ last 14 months"  It was 51% for 2008, 4-5 % for last two months of 2007, then Jan of 2009..since you want exact numbers.. I'll try to get Jan for you next week.  It adds up to around 60%.  The team my buddie is on is a joke.  The head is daughter who's dad retired in 2005.  She has about 5 years experience, one of her friends who was working at Schwab since 2001, two brokers who were in the training program at ML and she brought them in.  Their business is about 75% managed money, the book had about T-12 of 3 mill when her dad retired. It is now probably 1/2 that.  Not sure I would equate this team as a successful business that clients feel they are "lucky to be a part of" like you assume. 
 
What am I jealous of?  I do about 450k, work about 20 hours a week.  I made more on a private placement 4 years ago than you would get on a 150% up front retention.  I am happy with my business, yes its not over a million (And never will be, I am too lazy and won't hose clients) , but I have no headaches and could quit today and not have to work another day in my life. 

mydogisgoldie's picture
Offline
Joined: 2008-06-11

Thanks for the information.  It is a very scary time at ML especially if you are a hard working CA.  I have been sending out a lot of resumes.  Just hard to get a foot in the door for an interview here.  I have worked hard at ML and I knew this was probably going to happen given BOA track record.  I kept telling the people in my office all that "this is a great thing for ML" BS was just that and wait until after January 1.  We lost a guy Monday who just got all of his licenses and had not even started in production left.  BOA said they would pay him until February 6, but otherwise "don't let the door hit you on your butt as you leave."  What a bunch of crap.

mydogisgoldie's picture
Offline
Joined: 2008-06-11

bigboy wrote:The cuts are everywhere not just Southeast.  You should be scared.  You will know by the 6th whether you have a job or not.  That is when CA's will find out nationally if they have been cut.  The names have already been chosen, they just have not told anyone yet.  Basically alot of dead man walking in all size offices.  I think that SMO are safe for now.  However, they may be the next to be consolidated, etc.
 
What are SMO's?

bancofamigo's picture
Offline
Joined: 2008-04-05

small market offices

mojo99's picture
Offline
Joined: 2007-07-22

fritz wrote:
"The head is daughter who's dad retired in 2005.  She has about 5 years experience, one of her friends who was working at Schwab since 2001, two brokers who were in the training program at ML and she brought them in. 

Is she hot?

bondo's picture
Offline
Joined: 2007-04-15

Heard a big team out of Cincy left today.  Over $5mm in production.

Don Draper's picture
Offline
Joined: 2009-01-27

bondo wrote:Heard a big team out of Cincy left today.  Over $5mm in production.BS. there isn't 5mm in cincy

leftml's picture
Offline
Joined: 2008-11-13

If it is the team Bondo said then they might not be 5 mm but he's one of the top 100 fa's at ML. A huge PIA producer and he had most of upper management at PG. I live 80 miles south and he was a legend in our office.

bondo's picture
Offline
Joined: 2007-04-15

Don Draper wrote: bondo wrote:Heard a big team out of Cincy left today.  Over $5mm in production.BS. there isn't 5mm in cincy
 
Morgan Stanley's (MS) global wealth management group recently hired seven financial advisers, including Dean Trindle, a high- producing broker who had $6 million in trailing 12-month production.
 
http://money.cnn.com/news/newsfeeds/articles/djf500/200902191139DOWJONESDJONLINE000899_FORTUNE5.htm

NewRep73's picture
Offline
Joined: 2009-02-21

When a team leaves Goldman, depending on your reference point, many of you will call them huge.  Keep in mind, the minimum account size at Goldman is $5 million, and the average account size is approximately $20 million.  In order to survive at a firm like that, a investment professional must be doing $500,000 in revenue within their first 2 years, and about $1 million in revenue within their first 3-4 years.  The payouts are much lower at Goldman than other firms, so that is why teams leave for other firms.  Goldman never has problems attracting new talent, and they rarely buy a book of business, if ever.  They rely heavily on their brand name to hire and retain talent, and it works very effectively.  From GS, you can only go to a few other firms who cater to those clients, like MS, CS, or UBS.  Channel conflict is a big issue.  GS pounds on broker-dealers that have corner brokerage service, saying its a dilineation of the resources of the firm.

Crooked Salesman's picture
Joined: 2009-02-21

NewRep73 wrote:When a team leaves Goldman, depending on your reference point, many of you will call them huge.  Keep in mind, the minimum account size at Goldman is $5 million, and the average account size is approximately $20 million.  In order to survive at a firm like that, a investment professional must be doing $500,000 in revenue within their first 2 years, and about $1 million in revenue within their first 3-4 years.  The payouts are much lower at Goldman than other firms, so that is why teams leave for other firms.  Goldman never has problems attracting new talent, and they rarely buy a book of business, if ever.  They rely heavily on their brand name to hire and retain talent, and it works very effectively.  From GS, you can only go to a few other firms who cater to those clients, like MS, CS, or UBS.  Channel conflict is a big issue.  GS pounds on broker-dealers that have corner brokerage service, saying its a dilineation of the resources of the firm.
 
 
You seem quite knowledgable for being a "newrep.'

Please or Register to post comments.

Industry Newsletters
Careers Category Sponsor Links

Sponsored Introduction Continue on to (or wait seconds) ×