BankFC:  My experiences at the bank I worked for were that I had about 8 times as much paperwork per account.  I have heard this from other guys that work at different banks as well.

Also, if the paperwork isn't a lot of work, why do you use it as justification for your fee?

Anyway......

I guess the consensus here is that there is no value to taking a critical look at our compensation.  It is an untouchable subject apparently. 

I guess I'll leave it alone.  Too many assumptions about me are being made without understanding the tone of my posts (which is hard when all  you have is the typed word).  This has definitely not gone in the direction I was hoping it would. 

I am a very self scrutinizing person.  It is how I have grown as a person and as a professional.  I try not to take anything for granted and am almost always open to constructive crisism (other than days where I haven't had my coffee fix).  Anyway thanks for the discussion.

 @ BankFC

Quote Rightway: then we can be proud and not appologize for what we charge...

Amen to that.  I have two associates that came up through the business with me that both had different views, ideas, and concepts.  This ran from how to run the business to fees to marketing.  The three of us are all doing well and we all have our clients best interest at heart.  So we don't argue and call each other moron's, idiots, or even stupid.  We just notice how the stupid one's fall out of the picture on their own.

Now I have to go find that post about not getting a CFP 

Don't worry Dude.  Sometimes when I go back to read my posts they come off meaner than what I want.

The bottom line is this.  If you feel you can charge enough to cover the costs of running your business and still make a profit then do it. 

Here's an interesting story paraphrased; A company had a huge machine that was down.  It had stopped production and this meant no profits.  The mechanics on duty had no clue as to what the problem was and could not fix it.  The manager on duty decided to call up one of the engineers that had retired recently to see if he would look at it.  The engineer came in with a little tool box and fixed the problem in less than 5 minutes.  He was praised and given many thanks.  The company recieved a bill for $50,000 for his services.  The president was miffed and couldn't understand why it was so much for such a short amount of time.  The engineers response?  "I fixed it and now it runs"

If he spread that out over the next ten years or charged $45,000 upfront.  They are both happy.

[quote=Dirk Diggler]You know what’s really fun? When I tell a prospect that I’m gonna turn off the “broker meter” (annual fee) when he moves his account. They grin when they hear that. They like saving money. Get’s 'em every time.

Me: How much are you paying?

Prospect: 1.5% per year.

Me: Would if make you mad if I turned off the broker meter and didn't charge you an additional fee?[/quote]

That's an interesting, if not entirely honest approach to the sale.  If I am on the other side of the equation, I would be laying all your contract expenses next to my fee-based charges and expenses to see how they really compared.  The way you phrase the discussion, a prospect would be under the impression that you are 150 bps cheaper each year and you and I know that isn't even close to true.  They may like saving money, but they're not.

[quote=BankFC]

Actually Dirk, YOU ARE THE MORON.  If you had any reading comprehension skills at all, you'd realize I addressed the post to Dude, and I was referring to his post, as seen below:

[quote=dude]

Here's how I would prefer to pay an advisor:

A flat fee for work done on a financial plan (by the hour at perhaps $300 to $500 an hour depending on the advisors expertise)

A retainer (not based as a % of assets) for manager selection, monitoring, education and ongoing services, priced based on actual work performed (plus accounting for the advisor's profit, which is well deserved)

A fee as % of asset for direct money management.

Do I think this is the ideal solution, NO.  Do I think it's a start to challenge us to better justify our value, MAYBE. Do I think that I will learn something valuable from all of you (maybe even Mr.10% ), DEFINITELY.  Maybe y'all will learn something in the process?

[/quote]

We all know you don't work for free, you work "for free."  As do I most of the time.  And if you didn't have the intellectual capacity of a retarded slug, I was saying that is how it should be.  My post was PRO- COMMISSION, PRO FEES. 

But obviously you are far too stupid to realize that.

You are TRULY a MORON.        

[/quote]

Sorry. I'm just so used to getting it from all angles on this board that I'm a little sensitive. I guess my inner child got the best of me, but I'm all better now.

 Dirk,

Just when I want to hate on you, you make me laugh and I find it in me to appreciate your tasteful sarcasm.  Although I don't agree with you on somethings (mainly EIA's and sh*tting on others) your humor and thick skin are redeeming factors.

[quote=Indyone][quote=Dirk Diggler]You know what’s really fun? When I tell a prospect that I’m gonna turn off the “broker meter” (annual fee) when he moves his account. They grin when they hear that. They like saving money. Get’s 'em every time.

Me: How much are you paying?

Prospect: 1.5% per year.

Me: Would if make you mad if I turned off the broker meter and didn't charge you an additional fee?[/quote]

That's an interesting, if not entirely honest approach to the sale.  If I am on the other side of the equation, I would be laying all your contract expenses next to my fee-based charges and expenses to see how they really compared.  The way you phrase the discussion, a prospect would be under the impression that you are 150 bps cheaper each year and you and I know that isn't even close to true.  They may like saving money, but they're not.

[/quote]

Wow! You mean you include a guarantee with your fee? The VA that I use has M&E of 1.25% and subaccount fees of 68-70bps. If you're using mutual funds or managed money, you can't come close to the VA's total expenses. We can get rid of you and replace you with a guarantee, not to mention outperform the market on a consistent basis, by a wide margin. Call me crazy, but YOU have just become a little less important.

Argue all you want, but that doesn't change the fact that it's easy to steal business from fee chargers like this. I do it all the time.

Dirk, do you tell them its all backed by the FDIC too?

[quote=skeedaddy]Dirk, do you tell them its all backed by the FDIC too?[/quote]

I guess I'd say something stupid like that, myself, if I couldn't argue the facts.

Actually those dumb farts [investors] at the bank are pretty smart after all.

They are in VAs backed by the full faith and credit of the banks they buy

them from. Everyone knows that if the account drops in value, they can

complain to bank management and are made whole…or they threaten to go

to an attorney/press.

[quote=Dirk Diggler]

[quote=skeedaddy]Dirk, do you tell them its all

backed by the FDIC too?[/quote]

I guess I’d say something stupid like that, myself, if I

couldn’t argue the facts.

[quote=skeedaddy]Actually those dumb farts [investors] at the bank are pretty smart after all.
They are in VAs backed by the full faith and credit of the banks they buy
them from. Everyone knows that if the account drops in value, they can
complain to bank management and are made whole...or they threaten to go
to an attorney/press. [/quote]

We both have 177 posts.

[quote=skeedaddy] [quote=Dirk Diggler]

[quote=skeedaddy]Dirk, do you tell them its all
backed by the FDIC too?[/quote]

I guess I'd say something stupid like that, myself, if I
couldn't argue the facts.

[/quote]

Do you think they'll be alive long enough to see the guarantee (10 years), oh
that's right they have to die first, right?[/quote]

The gurantees are incidental. Do you think that people on a cruise ship spend all day worrying that the life boats are ugly?

I’m trying not to piss in my shorts…turn your broker meter off a moment…

[quote=Dirk Diggler][quote=Indyone][quote=Dirk Diggler]You know what’s really fun? When I tell a prospect that I’m gonna turn off the “broker meter” (annual fee) when he moves his account. They grin when they hear that. They like saving money. Get’s 'em every time.

Me: How much are you paying?

Prospect: 1.5% per year.

Me: Would if make you mad if I turned off the broker meter and didn't charge you an additional fee?[/quote]

That's an interesting, if not entirely honest approach to the sale.  If I am on the other side of the equation, I would be laying all your contract expenses next to my fee-based charges and expenses to see how they really compared.  The way you phrase the discussion, a prospect would be under the impression that you are 150 bps cheaper each year and you and I know that isn't even close to true.  They may like saving money, but they're not.

[/quote]

Wow! You mean you include a guarantee with your fee? The VA that I use has M&E of 1.25% and subaccount fees of 68-70bps. If you're using mutual funds or managed money, you can't come close to the VA's total expenses. We can get rid of you and replace you with a guarantee, not to mention outperform the market on a consistent basis, by a wide margin. Call me crazy, but YOU have just become a little less important.

Argue all you want, but that doesn't change the fact that it's easy to steal business from fee chargers like this. I do it all the time.[/quote]

You can say anything on these boards but that doesn't mean that I have to believe you.  If you're so sure you have a superior solution, tell us what VA you are using and we'll see just how well it really stacks up.

[quote=Dirk Diggler][quote=BankFC]

Actually Dirk, YOU ARE THE MORON.  If you had any reading comprehension skills at all, you'd realize I addressed the post to Dude, and I was referring to his post, as seen below:

[quote=dude]

Here's how I would prefer to pay an advisor:

A flat fee for work done on a financial plan (by the hour at perhaps $300 to $500 an hour depending on the advisors expertise)

A retainer (not based as a % of assets) for manager selection, monitoring, education and ongoing services, priced based on actual work performed (plus accounting for the advisor's profit, which is well deserved)

A fee as % of asset for direct money management.

Do I think this is the ideal solution, NO.  Do I think it's a start to challenge us to better justify our value, MAYBE. Do I think that I will learn something valuable from all of you (maybe even Mr.10% ), DEFINITELY.  Maybe y'all will learn something in the process?

[/quote]

We all know you don't work for free, you work "for free."  As do I most of the time.  And if you didn't have the intellectual capacity of a retarded slug, I was saying that is how it should be.  My post was PRO- COMMISSION, PRO FEES. 

But obviously you are far too stupid to realize that.

You are TRULY a MORON.        

[/quote]

Sorry. I'm just so used to getting it from all angles on this board that I'm a little sensitive. I guess my inner child got the best of me, but I'm all better now.

[/quote]

See?  I told you guys about 6 pages ago to calm down before someone's inner child got bruised.....

[quote=Dirk Diggler]Wow! You mean you include a guarantee with your fee? The VA that I use has M&E of 1.25% and subaccount fees of 68-70bps. If you’re using mutual funds or managed money, you can’t come close to the VA’s total expenses. We can get rid of you and replace you with a guarantee, not to mention outperform the market on a consistent basis, by a wide margin. Call me crazy, but YOU have just become a little less important.

Argue all you want, but that doesn't change the fact that it's easy to steal business from fee chargers like this. I do it all the time.

[/quote]

You backpeddle faster than anyone on this board...  I want proof.  Actual numbers.  Not the B.S. you are trying to throw around.  Based on your comments, I doubt you come anywhere close to full disclosure.  You're 1 NASD inquiry away from selling cars at the local Chevy Dealership.

[quote=Indyone] [quote=Dirk Diggler][quote=Indyone][quote=Dirk

Diggler]You know what’s really fun? When I tell a

prospect that I’m gonna turn off the “broker meter” (annual fee) when he

moves his account. They grin when they hear that. They like saving

money. Get’s 'em every time.

Me: How much are you paying?

Prospect: 1.5% per year.

Me: Would if make you mad if I turned off the broker

meter and didn’t charge you an additional fee?[/quote]

That’s an interesting, if not entirely honest approach to the sale. If I

am on the other side of the equation, I would be laying all your contract

expenses next to my fee-based charges and expenses to see how they

really compared. The way you phrase the discussion, a prospect would

be under the impression that you are 150 bps cheaper each year and you

and I know that isn’t even close to true. They may like saving money, but

they’re not.

[/quote]

Wow! You mean you include a guarantee with your

fee? The VA that I use has M&E of 1.25% and subaccount fees of 68

-70bps. If you’re using mutual funds or managed money, you can’t come

close to the VA’s total expenses. We can get rid of you and replace you

with a guarantee, not to mention outperform the market on a consistent

basis, by a wide margin. Call me crazy, but YOU have just become a little

less important.

Argue all you want, but that doesn’t change the fact

that it’s easy to steal business from fee chargers like this. I do it all the

time.[/quote]

You can say anything on these boards but that doesn’t mean that I have

to believe you. If you’re so sure you have a superior solution, tell us what

VA you are using and we’ll see just how well it really stacks up.

[quote=Indyone][quote=Dirk Diggler][quote=Indyone][quote=Dirk Diggler]You know what’s really fun? When I tell a prospect that I’m gonna turn off the “broker meter” (annual fee) when he moves his account. They grin when they hear that. They like saving money. Get’s 'em every time.

Me: How much are you paying?

Prospect: 1.5% per year.

Me: Would if make you mad if I turned off the broker meter and didn't charge you an additional fee?[/quote]

That's an interesting, if not entirely honest approach to the sale.  If I am on the other side of the equation, I would be laying all your contract expenses next to my fee-based charges and expenses to see how they really compared.  The way you phrase the discussion, a prospect would be under the impression that you are 150 bps cheaper each year and you and I know that isn't even close to true.  They may like saving money, but they're not.

[/quote]

Wow! You mean you include a guarantee with your fee? The VA that I use has M&E of 1.25% and subaccount fees of 68-70bps. If you're using mutual funds or managed money, you can't come close to the VA's total expenses. We can get rid of you and replace you with a guarantee, not to mention outperform the market on a consistent basis, by a wide margin. Call me crazy, but YOU have just become a little less important.

Argue all you want, but that doesn't change the fact that it's easy to steal business from fee chargers like this. I do it all the time.[/quote]

You can say anything on these boards but that doesn't mean that I have to believe you.  If you're so sure you have a superior solution, tell us what VA you are using and we'll see just how well it really stacks up.

[/quote]

I think we've just identified the problem. You want to believe me and I don't care whether or not you believe me.

[quote=iconsult100][quote=Dirk Diggler]Wow! You mean you include a guarantee with your fee? The VA that I use has M&E of 1.25% and subaccount fees of 68-70bps. If you’re using mutual funds or managed money, you can’t come close to the VA’s total expenses. We can get rid of you and replace you with a guarantee, not to mention outperform the market on a consistent basis, by a wide margin. Call me crazy, but YOU have just become a little less important.

Argue all you want, but that doesn't change the fact that it's easy to steal business from fee chargers like this. I do it all the time.

[/quote]

You backpeddle faster than anyone on this board...  I want proof.  Actual numbers.  Not the B.S. you are trying to throw around.  Based on your comments, I doubt you come anywhere close to full disclosure.  You're 1 NASD inquiry away from selling cars at the local Chevy Dealership.

[/quote]

How does it feel to want?