End of the Line for me :(

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bondking's picture
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Joined: 2008-10-28

10 years with Wachovia Securities. Today was my last. My production has plunged to the point where it just doesn't work. We can't even make our March mortgage payment (to WB), and honestly don't know where the hell it's going to come from. Probably gonna tap the equity, and walk away. Far. Nobody's fault but my own.

Godspeed to you guys

newnew's picture
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Joined: 2007-02-23

wow- 10 years. no excuses, though. good luck!

Anonymous's picture
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I'm sorry to hear this. Best of luck to you bro.

NCGNTO's picture
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Joined: 2008-10-31

Ferris Bueller wrote: I'm sorry to hear this. Best of luck to you bro.

Sooo very sorry... We feel this pain as well.. my best to u and your family.   

JayMc's picture
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Joined: 2009-01-25

good luck to you!

things happen for a reason

go_huskies's picture
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Joined: 2008-12-11

sorry to hear your news, best of luck...

3rd ID's picture
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Joined: 2008-11-30

Very sorry for you. Sadly there will be many others joining you. But for the grace of God could be any of us at some point. 

3rd ID's picture
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Joined: 2008-11-30

Has anyone else decided its time to move on or perhaps get a second job until this thing blows over? Im not at that stage yet, but the drop off in biz gets me real nervous and I start thinking PT job. Then somehow I pull it together by the end of the month. And then the battle begins all over again.  

Anonymous's picture
Anonymous

Jesus H.  man!  10 years?  I'd implore you to find SOME WAY to make it work man!  Best of luck either way my friend.

fritz's picture
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Joined: 2006-01-12

Based on guys Ive seen who have left under similar type situation, 100% of them 2 years later look back on it and it was best decision they ever made in their life.  Maybe stressful now, but pretty sure you will see it was the right move later.  Many Many more to follow you too, this market is done for a long long time.  Only question is how long.

3rd ID's picture
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Joined: 2008-11-30

Bondking..........get something on the side. I did it in 2001 and 2002 for a while. Biz got real bad and I just had to do something. Working harder in the biz wasnt paying the bills so I got PT jobs and it saved my sanity and helped us get through that tough spell. Eventually was able to rebuild and do well. It sucked but it had to be done. And it may have to be done again. If so, so be it. 

3rd ID's picture
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Joined: 2008-11-30

Based on guys Ive seen who have left under similar type situation, 100%
of them 2 years later look back on it and it was best decision they
ever made in their life.***********************************************I think a lot of us would walk if we could make the kind of money we have been making elsewhere in a more stable and enjoyable field. Problem is those jobs dont exist now. So we have to survive this. Just where the heck are we going to start all over at 40 plus yrs of age, for those of us in that age category?

GlengarryGlenRoss's picture
Joined: 2008-10-27

Sad news.  Ten years in and having to get out.  Being only a month in that scares the bejesus out of me.  Though I just left 11 years in the mortgage biz.  Out of the frying pan....

JayMc's picture
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Joined: 2009-01-25

this business is really really hard. i have made a ton of money over the years. wasted 10 years of my life (and one marriage) working like an insane madman. if i had to start again.......i would not get in this GD business. when rookies come to me for advice i tell them to get their other jobs back. they laugh   im 100% serious   

Kendall's picture
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Joined: 2008-11-03

Unfortunately, as a sign of the times, this thread could reach a hundred plus pages long.
 

Squash1's picture
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Joined: 2008-11-19

I wasn't aware you could get a second(pt) job and still keep your day job...

3rd ID's picture
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Joined: 2008-11-30

JayMc....I agree. When anyone asks me how to get in the biz, Ill tell them to stay away. Not trying to discourage folks, just trying to spare them the life. I'm 12 years in and have made serious mistakes in this biz and also have recovered by the grace of God, but here we go down the chute again. Its a never ending cycle of highs and lows. Tremendous paychecks to near poverty wages. You have to be able to bank serious coin in the good times to survive the bad and that itself is not the easiest task if you have a family.  

3rd ID's picture
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Joined: 2008-11-30

I wasn't aware you could get a second(pt) job and still keep your day job...**************************************************yes you can. Just not in the industry. Sure the boss may not like it but they can go pound sand. They arent going to help us. Get a job at night and/or on weekends. Find something where you wont run into clients if possible. Security, limo driver, bouncer, bartender. Look for gigs on Craigs List. I know a guy stocking shelves at night. Its sucks, but it helps you and it builds character and its not forever. If your a guy, your wife isnt going to be very happy seeing you sit around complaining all the time about this sh*tty biz of ours. Go out and get a PT job. Helps you pay the bills and helps you keep your self respect. And people will respect you for it, not look down on you. Some will say dont get a PT job, just work harder. Ok great. Try that and if that works, keep doing it. If not, put your pride aside and get something to help you out until this blows over. Just my thoughts on this. Been there.

Anonymous's picture
Anonymous

Before you go out and do this...remember, you'll need to get approval from your compliance department AND you'll need to disclose it as an Outside Business Activity on your U4. 

3rd ID's picture
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Joined: 2008-11-30

Before you go out and do this...remember, you'll need to get approval
from your compliance department AND you'll need to disclose it as an
Outside Business Activity on your U4. ************************************************************Yes this is correct, but in this environment no one will bat an eyelash at this unless you are trying to work for another investment/financial svs firm. No one will tell you that you cannot get an extra job to help make ends meet during this unprecedented economic downturn, if that is what you need to do. Could be the difference between surviving or not. When the recovery eventually comes, this will be a great business again.

Sailor25's picture
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Joined: 2005-04-09

I've been at this 28 years. There are good times, and there are bad times. You have to watch your expenses, and don't spend money like the good times will last forever. They won't, and neither will bad times.

sisu's picture
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Joined: 2009-02-07

Sorry to hear you are bailing out.  You'll be in my prayers.  Over the years I've seen this business chew up and spit out some of the best.  Unless Congress & the Fed are spot on perfect (which I doubt), there's no way the economy will lift prior to Q4-09....and perhaps far beyond.   We should all hunker down for a rough stretch and hope the lawyers stay away.  It's going to take all the sisu we can muster to ride this storm out!

training wheels's picture
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Joined: 2008-12-13

For longest time I just thought that if things ever  got lean I would just work extra hard and bring in some more clients. Things have changed. I am also considering doing something on the side, including looking at some franchises. Its actually kind of fun to look at! Go to entrepenuer magazine website and look at all the franchises. I mean...who wouldn't rather be driving a Snapon tool truck right now!!
Bondking: My best to you and your family. I agree these things happen for a reason and at some point you will be thankful that you had to make this tough decision.

HymanRoth's picture
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Joined: 2008-08-25

I am sorry to hear of your situation, and can fully appreciate the stress you must feel.Has it occurred to any of you that this is a further sign that the bottom is near at hand?I'm just sayin'

Sportsfreakbob's picture
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Joined: 2008-08-24

I agree with Hyman.From a psychology standpoint, this thread, and the general tone of the forums lately overall, are classic signs of a bottom.Bondking, i feel for you. Good luck.For the rest of us, there is way too much negativity. Yeah, things are a bitch right now. But there is money everywhere. I've brought in 2 million in the first two months of the year and i am not trying. Just unhappy folks referred by their friends and one guy from my BNI group.I'm trying to be proactive too, going forward.I put together a small dinner two weeks from now, i called three clients told them i wanted to invite them to dinner, asked them to bring a friend/another couple, no sales, just a roundtable discussion with my views on the markets and a little about my process, along with a strategist from my firm. Three phone calls to clients, three yeses, three prospects being brought along. I;m gonna do this every month. I'm not saying its easy to stay positive with markets going down day after day after day like a drum that doesnt stop beating. But there is no way i am going to have my book waste away, no way I am going to be driven out of this business by gloom and doom. I am good at what i do and there are a lot of people who need my help, and i'm gonna find them, and make up the assets i lost.We all need to fight the negativity and find some people who need our help and show them how we can help them. Thats what we can control. We cant control the market, Stressing over it will only drain our energy.Bring in money, be prudent with it, and go find more. Its out there. Between the clients of brokers who are hiding under their desks, and the clients of brokers who have moved firms for a check, there is a lot of it.

Valhalla's picture
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Joined: 2009-02-13

3rd ID wrote:JayMc....I agree. When anyone asks me how to get in the biz, Ill tell them to stay away. Not trying to discourage folks, just trying to spare them the life. I'm 12 years in and have made serious mistakes in this biz and also have recovered by the grace of God, but here we go down the chute again. Its a never ending cycle of highs and lows. Tremendous paychecks to near poverty wages. You have to be able to bank serious coin in the good times to survive the bad and that itself is not the easiest task if you have a family.  
 
same for me. this business is hard as balls no matter where your market is, what degrees/designations you have. the stress is unreal and the days it takes from your life are only compounded by that stress. i too would advise to not enter this industry... although all businesses have their own +/-. this one though - more difficult than anyone on this earth that is not an advisor can possibly know.  
 
the saving grace for our team over the last couple of months has been a very proactive approach to our clients AND clients calling in to see if we are holding up ok. going to be a tough slog over the next 3-5 years. this industry will indeed shed 1000's of experienced advisors over that time. newbies - good luck.

Valhalla's picture
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Joined: 2009-02-13

HymanRoth wrote:I am sorry to hear of your situation, and can fully appreciate the stress you must feel.Has it occurred to any of you that this is a further sign that the bottom is near at hand?I'm just sayin'
 
good point. when advisors are ready to (or are) bailing - the bottom has to be near.
 
the inflection point though is how long are we going to sit at the bottom? and if it is for a protracted period of time, the same stresses will remain on all of our business.

UNDERMINDED's picture
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Joined: 2008-10-14

Who wants to open a restaurant with me?!?

jkl1v1n6's picture
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Joined: 2008-10-06

BONDKING:
 
PEACE BE WITH YOU BROTHER!

indythankgod's picture
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Joined: 2007-12-23

Please tell me your not serious about part time jobs. Grab your balls and go knock on doors on the weekend. Everyones home. Just be yourself, smile and talk to people. You will make great contacts and much more $$ for your time.

san fran broker's picture
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Joined: 2006-02-25

Very sorry to hear about your misfortune. It's a testament to the world we live in that we're losing producers of your experience.

Considering your "no excuses" attitude, you'll be back on your feet in six months.

exEJIR's picture
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Joined: 2005-05-12

Bondking,
 
Good luck to you brother.
 
 
 

Valhalla's picture
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Joined: 2009-02-13

indythankgod wrote:Please tell me your not serious about part time jobs. Grab your balls and go knock on doors on the weekend. Everyones home. Just be yourself, smile and talk to people. You will make great contacts and much more $$ for your time.
 
some people just get worn out physically and emotionally by this business, thus no desire or energy to go doorknocking on the weekend. particularly if you are just trying to keep the family together. we all know the weekends are premium family time expecially in this environment. if you are already working your balls off and not seeing the rewards (i know, try another strategy) then it is time to move on, keep the family in tact, and work somewhere that at least gives a monthly fixed income stream. nothing wrong with that.
 
good luck bondking - take what you have learned in this business and get yourself into something more suitable that keeps the home a home.

DixieDog's picture
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Joined: 2009-01-12

bondking-- Godspeed and good luck to you.

CDO Squared's picture
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Joined: 2009-01-20

sisu wrote:
  Over the years I've seen this business chew up and spit out some of the best. 

 
aint that the truth.
its sad to watch

Vin Diesel's picture
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Joined: 2007-04-18

Bondking that sucks! However seeing as you've been in the business 10 years, you're probably pretty good at selling. This will only help you going forward.
Drop a post and keep us updated. Good Luck!

Uber Screwed's picture
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Joined: 2009-02-20

Bondking....we feel your pain.   Watching our incomes drop; 401k loans to make ends meet; fees resetting at ever-lower levels; clients bailing; loss of confidence in our own ability...
 
Asset allocaton has failed.  Blue chips have failed.  Bonds have failed.  Managed accounts have failed.  Washington has failed.  Our clients, careers, security and dreams are the collateral damage.  
 
Godspeed to you, my brother.
 
My team and I are hanging on for now.  We can keep it going for a while yet, but we fear for the future if things get significantly worse.  
 

JayMc's picture
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Joined: 2009-01-25

Uber Screwed wrote: y...
 
Asset allocaton has failed.  Blue chips have failed.  Bonds have failed.  Managed accounts have failed.  Washington has failed.  Our clients, careers, security and dreams are the collateral damage.  

wow well put

Sam Houston's picture
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Joined: 2008-12-01

Must be a market bottom.

stokwiz's picture
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Joined: 2004-12-04

Man, WTF?
 
Misery loves company.
 
I've been independent for years, just me, my lovely assistant and networking partners. I have no other brokers in the office so I'm like a machine, doing what I know leads to results, without distractions. This board is the window to my peers, and sometimes its depressing.
 
Success leaves clues. There is a system that's been successful, and you just have to follow it.
 
There can be so many reasons for failure.
 
 
Being in the office shuffling paper all day waiting for the phone to ring = failure ( Used to happen to me - still does in fact. Maturity is recognizing it and getting back on the phone!)
 
Calling residences in the era of DNC= frustration and failure
 
Trying to sell product over the phone = failure
 
Focusing on things you can't control, like the markets= failure
 
listening to all the noise  instead of focusing on activities like seeing 2 people a day or working to see 2 people a day = failure
 
This is one of the best times to be in this business - you just have to see new people, get them talking, offer solutions and you will do business.
 
If you are not successful, it isn't the system, it is you. This business sure as hell isn't for everybody, and no one was born a successful broker. You have to continually work at it, just as athletes will only get better with practice. Practice for us being appointments. The more you have the better you get.
 
You will not only survive, you will thrive.
 
Stok

GlengarryGlenRoss's picture
Joined: 2008-10-27

Good stuff Stok. We should create a separate forum for all positive thoughts, results, and ways to get biz.

Doksee's picture
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Joined: 2009-03-02

Yea, Stok! I have my own office and PT assistant, too. Your list is thoughtful and excellent.
 
Here's a thought: this market is punishing bad behavior. That's a good thing!
 
Around here, clients could not sell their house this weekend. The value is zero. Yet, the house provides dividends (shelter, a stove, a place to sleep).
 
On your statement, we have to "value" your stocks and bonds every day. In fact, the dividend and interest yield pretty much says they can't go to zero (unless the world falls apart). The real reason we own them is more to deal with inflation - which will come - when? Remember inflation.
 
I hope the market tears PelObama world down to reality. Seems to be doing a pretty good job. Don't let these Socialists off easy.
 
Selling DI insurance is my new best friend right now.

mbrink's picture
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Joined: 2009-02-12

I commend all of you who are staying positive and sticking it out. As a recruiting manager we do hear from someone every now and again that has decided to leave the business. That is truly sad. Think of all the hard work going to waste. Trust me, being in the job market right now is not the best thing. Competition is high and fewer employers are hiring. If you are lucky enough to land a 9-5 then you are "owned" by someone else again and you get paid little to nothing.
 
You would be better off moving to another firm. Perhaps reap the benefit of a first year transition income in addition to your commissions, etc. Not a loan- Or maybe even a draw? Would that help? Even some of our wrap style products pay the first three years up front at the point of sale. There are other options if you want to fight for them by doing your homework on what is available in THIS industry. Now is the time to move.    
 

ManOnTheCouch's picture
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Joined: 2009-02-03

This may sound like blasphemy to many of you, but if you're independent, consider selling some fixed or indexed annuities.  They're flying off the shelves right now, and the commissions just might keep you in the business until things recover.  Look into them.  They're a respectable investment if used sparingly and in the right way.   Just make sure to do it as part of a balanced portfolio and leave enough liquidity.  Food for thought.

chief123's picture
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Joined: 2008-10-28

stokwiz wrote:Man, WTF?
 
Misery loves company.
 
I've been independent for years, just me, my lovely assistant and networking partners. I have no other brokers in the office so I'm like a machine, doing what I know leads to results, without distractions. This board is the window to my peers, and sometimes its depressing.
 
Success leaves clues. There is a system that's been successful, and you just have to follow it.
 
There can be so many reasons for failure.
 
 
Being in the office shuffling paper all day waiting for the phone to ring = failure ( Used to happen to me - still does in fact. Maturity is recognizing it and getting back on the phone!)
 
Calling residences in the era of DNC= frustration and failure
 
Trying to sell product over the phone = failure
 
Focusing on things you can't control, like the markets= failure
 
listening to all the noise  instead of focusing on activities like seeing 2 people a day or working to see 2 people a day = failure
 
This is one of the best times to be in this business - you just have to see new people, get them talking, offer solutions and you will do business.
 
If you are not successful, it isn't the system, it is you. This business sure as hell isn't for everybody, and no one was born a successful broker. You have to continually work at it, just as athletes will only get better with practice. Practice for us being appointments. The more you have the better you get.
 
You will not only survive, you will thrive.
 
Stok
 
If you aren't calling people how are you seeing them?

anonymous's picture
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Joined: 2005-09-29

Over the years, many people find this business to get easier.  In general, those are the reps who are now in trouble.  The business got easier because they had clients who had more and more assets.  They spent most of their time working with their existing clients.  They were able to do less work and not make any less money.
 
Others have found that this business doesn't get easier.  They are the ones who have always spent time getting new clients.  For these people, instead of the business getting easier, it just got more and more lucrative.  These are the people who are going survive this market downturn and make an absolute killing when the market turns around.

Herman Munster's picture
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Joined: 2008-10-25

BondKing:
Can you enter the WS Sunset program?
 
It's where you sell your book to another FC.  After 10 years there has to be some value for the book that you built.  Also what about Finet or the HD Vest platform?
 
I think this will be a great time to be in the business if your focusing on planning. The whole country is worried about their finances and will be seeking out assistance. The key is to make it through the next couple of months.
 
Work on the side. Something unrelated with low stress just to grab some extra cash.  
 
If you leave the business you'll probably experience less stress and do well.
 
Good luck.
 
 

indythankgod's picture
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Joined: 2007-12-23

Indexed Annuities? Why limit your upside now w/ a cap. Thats crazy. A VA makes much more sense and I don't even like those. Ins Co's will go down if the market never comes back.

anonymous's picture
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Joined: 2005-09-29

indythankgod wrote:Indexed Annuities? Why limit your upside now w/ a cap. Thats crazy. A VA makes much more sense and I don't even like those. Ins Co's will go down if the market never comes back.
 
These kind of statements show a lack of understanding of the product.  It's like saying don't put money into CD's or fixed annuities because you are limiting your upside.  Indexed annuities are for the dollars in which someone doesn't want to take any investment risk.

3rd ID's picture
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Joined: 2008-11-30

I have done index annuities here and there for a few years. Those clients are very happy right now. We did capture initial upside of 7 or 8% for some who I started early. The rest are pretty flat, but there are no losses and still the 3% min return to them is calculating and worse case thats is what they will walk away with in yr 7, an annualized ror of 3%. I am starting to use them more now that we are destroyed in the mkt. Upside potential is there over next 5 to 7 yrs. Even if mkt in the crapper next 2 yrs then mkt may begin to recover do well. Yeah, they might do better in straight index ETF with no cap, but try selling that now with no guarantees against loss. Frankly, I am much more comfortable with clients underlying protected here. I really have no more stomach for losses either. 

3rd ID's picture
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Joined: 2008-11-30

Why limit your upside now w/ a cap. Thats crazy.*************************************************Thats why people lose money. Stupid and GREEDY. How about just returning the clients money with no strings attached and at worse a modest return? I can live with that and my clients def can live with that.....Mr. Client, worse case scenario is we get an annualized 2% ror. Best case is we get an annualized ror of 8%. We will probably get somewhere in between over the next 5 to 7 years. Mr client, are these parameters acceptable to you? Guaranteed ret. of principal with a min 2% ROR and possibly a better return with a cap at 7 or 8% if S&P begins to recover?.............answer is always yes. This is for clients who have no low to no tolerance for loss and also have the time to leave the money alone. Take to much out and the penalties are high. 10% typically allowed out per year, but up to 12% penalty if more than that.  (I use ING 7yr hold and also Jackson 5 yr hold. Products differ in an number of ways. Both have worked well.)

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