Ej # 1?
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[quote=BigCheese]The flaws in the Jones system have been documented ad nausem (spelling?). It is interesting that Jones goes after reps if they leave in the first few years for repayment of training costs, etc…
You would think they would spend the money to help the reps after a year or so (once they had hit Seg 3), rather than spend it to recover training costs when they leave for greaner pastures. Once you hit Seg 3 you can't make enough money to survive long term, and you are left alone to ultimately leave in one way or another. Some takes 3 some 5 years and for me it was almost 9 years and after hit Seg 4 (supposedly making it). Now that I have been indy for almost 3 years, I can say without hesitation that Jones reps that really want to stay in this biz for 20 years have to make the decision to leave that firm. Their model isn't built for producers in bad markets, its built for growth of new reps regardless. If Spiff and B24 realize that once they are 300K producers they are funding the growth and getting nothing for it.[/quote] I agree. If your goal is to be a career small-producer, Jones is not a great place to stay (nor are any of the wirehouses). They just suck too much from you for what you are producing. You can be much more (financially) efficient as an indy at the sub-450K production level. Of course, it depends on the type of practice. If you have a high-transaction, low average account practice with a lot of clients, Jones is actually not a bad place. They have the systems in place to handle a lot of clients (contact management, integrated software, most expenses are paid by firm, etc.). However, if you are an RIA with less than 100 clients, you can have a small office and a part-time assistant and cut your overhead dramatically versus being at Jones.That was David Lane. He oversees the Goodknight department now. Yes, he had like 5 offices, with clipboards on each door. Steps in, talks to the client, etc. I think he was like a 2mm+ producer. He also had a drive-through drop box for checks where clients could drop checks off. Like it or not, I think he was pretty innovative for a "one man shop". But at that level, the Jones model just falls apart. You can't run your business that way. You need to have additional licensed staff to service smaller clients. However, I think the optimum situation is to jettison off all your smaller cleitns, and just focus on your bigger clients. He did several goodknight plans, and I think most of his office was ultimately split up by the time he left. I'm sure he made a killing doing all those Goodknights. It's pretty lucrative.[/quote] Wann is the dude where it is set up like a Dr's office. My field trainer went through training with him. David Lane was a machine also but he inherited over 100mil from a guy who is now an American Funds Regional Wholesaler, Tom something.[quote=Squash1]Is Wann the guy who has the converted Dr.s office. where he has like 3 BOAs and he only steps in for a minute?
I want to talk about beer again…
Has anyone ever had the Rogue Hazelnut Brown Nectar? It will change your life!That was David Lane. He oversees the Goodknight department now. Yes, he had like 5 offices, with clipboards on each door. Steps in, talks to the client, etc. I think he was like a 2mm+ producer. He also had a drive-through drop box for checks where clients could drop checks off. Like it or not, I think he was pretty innovative for a "one man shop". But at that level, the Jones model just falls apart. You can't run your business that way. You need to have additional licensed staff to service smaller clients. However, I think the optimum situation is to jettison off all your smaller cleitns, and just focus on your bigger clients. He did several goodknight plans, and I think most of his office was ultimately split up by the time he left. I'm sure he made a killing doing all those Goodknights. It's pretty lucrative.[/quote] Wann is the dude where it is set up like a Dr's office. My field trainer went through training with him. David Lane was a machine also but he inherited over 100mil from a guy who is now an American Funds Regional Wholesaler, Tom something.[quote=B24][quote=Squash1]Is Wann the guy who has the converted Dr.s office. where he has like 3 BOAs and he only steps in for a minute?
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Yeah, you're probably right. I just remember David Lane giving a talk a few years ago when he talked about how he ran his office, and it was just like a doctor's office. But you're right, he inherited a lot (although I will say that he grew it from like 100mm to around 300mm, which is no small feat). And Wann Robinson did grow it from scratch (or maybe he was somewhere previously, but he did not inherit a big office). I want to say he's like 25 years in.
Bond in drag…idiot.
Spiff- Wow. Now that is a good example of a personal attack. Why don't you tell us a little about your performance? Are you out of Seg 3 yet? If not then your production is south of 300K and guess what you don't get a bonus even if the brackets weren't at 0. If you produced at 300K+ and your bonus was 5-10% of your comp, you would be more concerned about growing the firm at your expense. But since you aren't you always bring back how good LP is (and you didn't earn it in the field). I know 18% return on 10-20K is alot of money to you. I may be an idiot in your eyes (probably because the truth hurts). You my friend should consider politics, you are awesome representation of telling half-truths. And since you clearly excel at communication (how many posts per week do you average?) you should be in line for GP (behind family of course) if your political career fails.Bartow is the guy that really should get credit for that office in Paducah but he won’t because everyone can’t stand to be in the same room with him. As far as experiences, you really should have taken a Top Gun workshop from him…
Correct on both accounts. He’s a great old-school broker teacher. But he’s a d!ck. Good story (or bad story). Went to one of his workshops a few years ago in our region. I think it was sponsored by American Funds (which is where he now works). There were about 45 of us there. He yells at this guy for coming in 30 minutes late. I mean yells at him. The guy says (and he was rather new, and telling the truth) “I apologize, but I had to bring my wife to her chemo treatment this morning, and I had to wait and bring her home because we are new to the area and she had no other way to get home” (I am para-phrasing, but those were almost his exact words).
I sh!t you not. That sort of soured the rest of the day.[quote=B24] Correct on both accounts. He’s a great old-school broker teacher. But he’s a d!ck. Good story (or bad story). Went to one of his workshops a few years ago in our region. I think it was sponsored by American Funds (which is where he now works). There were about 45 of us there. He yells at this guy for coming in 30 minutes late. I mean yells at him. The guy says (and he was rather new, and telling the truth) “I apologize, but I had to bring my wife to her chemo treatment this morning, and I had to wait and bring her home because we are new to the area and she had no other way to get home” (I am para-phrasing, but those were almost his exact words).
Nice. I believe it.
[quote=B24]Correct on both accounts. He’s a great old-school broker teacher. But he’s a d!ck. Good story (or bad story). Went to one of his workshops a few years ago in our region. I think it was sponsored by American Funds (which is where he now works). There were about 45 of us there. He yells at this guy for coming in 30 minutes late. I mean yells at him. The guy says (and he was rather new, and telling the truth) “I apologize, but I had to bring my wife to her chemo treatment this morning, and I had to wait and bring her home because we are new to the area and she had no other way to get home” (I am para-phrasing, but those were almost his exact words).
I sh!t you not. That sort of soured the rest of the day.[/quote] Yeah I can believe that. I went to a workshop with him when he was with American Funds and some of the veterans were standings in the back chatting quietly. He called them out and said, "What, you guys to smart to pay attention?" Total jagoff. And he is like 5 ft 1.johnny two times. johnny two times.
He’s got my respect. For the people willing to do the work he’d be willing to work with them and give them constructive criticism and for those that made excuses he had no sympathy.
FWIW, Ron … if you’ve got the balls to be talking while a featured speaker is addressing the newbies, you deserve to get your damned a$$ handed to you. Serves them right and I applaud Bartow for doing it.
I don't care what the guy has done or what he has built. He is a straight up jag off.
The large dog producer in Washinton… Brian Duffy maybe?
Yes Bartow started "David Lane's" Paducah office in the early 1980's, built it to $80-100mm, went to StLouis about 1988-89, as a GP. David Lane, pretty fresh from college had been some early star and was moved from Murray, KY to Paducah. To his credit, Lane took over something big and established and did nothing other than run faster with it and grow it bigger for many many years. Speculation is that being a (per Jones) giant dog producer with one or two (?) divorces under his belt he probably had some huge child support obligations that could be somewhat mitigated by trading in his huge annuity (the verb , not the noun) office for a nice big addtional slug of Gee Pee. Bartow's epilogue... Being the consumate little man Napoleon Bartow got into some pissing contest with John Bachmann and stormed out of the firm. Bachmann's perpective reportedly (and rightfully so) was "Don't let the screen door hit you in the ass on your way out the door, Tommy."Nah, wasn’t Duffy… I can see the guys face… His house was profiled in magazine because he redid the whole thing(massive house from what I remember)… Maybe it was Oregon, but I am pretty sure it was Washington(seem to think he lives by some microsoft execs)… Damn…
[quote=Juck Phones]The large dog producer in Washinton… Brian Duffy maybe?
Yes Bartow started "David Lane's" Paducah office in the early 1980's, built it to $80-100mm, went to StLouis about 1988-89, as a GP. David Lane, pretty fresh from college had been some early star and was moved from Murray, KY to Paducah. To his credit, Lane took over something big and established and did nothing other than run faster with it and grow it bigger for many many years. Speculation is that being a (per Jones) giant dog producer with one or two (?) divorces under his belt he probably had some huge child support obligations that could be somewhat mitigated by trading in his huge annuity (the verb , not the noun) office for a nice big addtional slug of Gee Pee. [/quote] I heard the same thing about David Lane and the whole divorce thing. Not sure how divorce settlements work, but I would think the income kicked off by the partnership shares would be considered income. Let's say they gave him $1mm in GP, that would turn into 500K or so per year in income. Less than what he was making in Paducah, but nothing to scoff at. Of course, I have NO idea how much GP he got. I just know he was probably netting $1mm or more in Paducah.Divorce laws are different in every state. If he were half as smart as an idiot, he would have at least gotten a prenup after the first divorce.
Child support is mandated by the state, so there’s no way around that. But it usually doesn’t amount to half of what someone is making.
Also, courts look at all sources of income with the exception of disability. This means passive and active. GP, LP, dividends - it all counts.
If you own a business and are funneling personal expenses through it, child support guidelines (usually and are usually taken into consideration for alimony) disallow certain expenses (car, insurance, etc.). If it is not specifically used to RUN the business, then it can be disallowed.
Yeah, I am sure there was some advantage to it for him. Maybe they even made some sort of “arrangement” for future comp or something. Or maybe he just wanted to get out of Dodge (or Paducah). I just can’t think of a reason why i would trade in a $1mm income, with nobody looking over your shoulder, to go sit in a cube in St. Louis with 10 hour days and 10 other GP’s looking over your shoulder.
[quote=BigCheese]Bond in drag…idiot.
Spiff- Wow. Now that is a good example of a personal attack. Why don't you tell us a little about your performance? Are you out of Seg 3 yet? If not then your production is south of 300K and guess what you don't get a bonus even if the brackets weren't at 0. If you produced at 300K+ and your bonus was 5-10% of your comp, you would be more concerned about growing the firm at your expense. But since you aren't you always bring back how good LP is (and you didn't earn it in the field). I know 18% return on 10-20K is alot of money to you. I may be an idiot in your eyes (probably because the truth hurts). You my friend should consider politics, you are awesome representation of telling half-truths. And since you clearly excel at communication (how many posts per week do you average?) you should be in line for GP (behind family of course) if your political career fails.[/quote] No, I don't think I will tell you about my production. It means nothing to anyone but me and my family. I'll tell you that I don't get invited to the managing partners conference, but I'm not on goals either. Make whatever assumptions you'd like from there. I didn't earn my LP in the field. I've never said that I did. I'm proud of the work that I did while I was in the home office, but my timing couldn't have been worse for getting LP in the field. Actually I timed it pretty poorly on both sides. If LP were what I was looking for, I should have waited another 5-6 months to leave HQ because I probably would have received more LP than I got. Too bad for me. Then my branch wasn't profitable enough to get more LP when the last offering came out a few years ago. Actually, I think you're an idiot not because of the attack on me or the comment about the LP, but more because of your assertation that the "flaws in the Jones system have been documented ad nausem". The only place I've ever seen anything "documented" about flaws in the EDJ system are here in this forum. And those are usually written by folks like yourself who have left Jones for some reason or another. I would hardly call that a strong case for documentation. You have a difference of opinion with the way that EDJ is and should be managed. That doesn't mean that your statements "Once you hit Seg 3 you can't make enough money to survive long term" and "Jones reps that really want to stay in this biz for 20 years have to make the decision to leave that firm" are at all factual. How do you know what it takes to pay my bills? I could make $20K gross a month for the rest of my life and be just fine. There are a ton of Jones reps who have been in this business for 20 years or more. I think every one of them would make a very valid case against your theory. Tell me what model IS built for brokers in bad markets. Our "flawed" model has brought in tons of assets and advisors during this downturn. While a lot of advisors were worried about the name on their door or the 40% drop in their fee based paycheck, Jones FAs were out there ringing doorbells, calling clients, and starting new relationships. How is that not a platform built for advisors in a bad market? So, see, you're not an idiot just because of your bond in drag comment or your comments about my production, along with B24, but because of the things I outlined above. As for my communication skills - thanks for the compliment. I would think that basic typing skills, spelling, sentence structure, and basic interpersonal communication skills would be a standard skill set for someone in this business, but evidently not: "Some takes 3 some 5 years and for me it was almost 9 years and after hit Seg 4 (supposedly making it)." What?Spiff-
You are amazing. You have only seen negative things on this forum? How about WSJ, or maybe Forbes, or how about your St. Louis Business Journal. Are all publications outside of this forum foreign to you? I ask a simple question and you continue to act by attacking me. What's wrong with coming out with your numbers. How can I take you seriously if you only gross 150K and come off as the great Jones messiah. Now if you were a larger producer, perhaps what you continue to say might have some punch. Proofreading only happens with client or company communications not these forums. Continue to expect grammar issues.