AMP, Jones- laughingstocks

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braves fan's picture
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Joined: 2006-07-06

This was written in another thread:
Look, Taco, like it or not, your firm (AMP)  is one of the laughingstocks of the industry, Jones being the other.  There's a reason for that. 
So, time for a very scientific poll.  Two questions:
1.  Are both of these firms the laughingstocks of the industry.
2.  If yes, which is a bigger laughingstock?
I'll answer first.
1.  Yes
2.  Jones- just something about knocking on doors.

AllREIT's picture
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Joined: 2006-12-16

braves fan wrote:This was written in another thread:
Look, Taco, like it or not, your firm (AMP)  is one of the laughingstocks of the industry, Jones being the other.  There's a reason for that. 
So, time for a very scientific poll.  Two questions:
1.  Are both of these firms the laughingstocks of the industry.
2.  If yes, which is a bigger laughingstock?
I'll answer first.
1.  Yes
2.  Jones- just something about knocking on doors.

I'll say AMP is worse than EDJ because of the VUL and annuity sharking,
the lame lunch, learn and get cold called for the next 6 months
program, and the godawful RVS funds.

At least EDJ's preferred funds are decent and unimaginative.

anonymous's picture
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Joined: 2005-09-29

AMP wins hands down. Cookie cutter "financial plan" followed by the advice to buy VUL and Riversource.
I must be the only non-Jones guy who doesn't think that they are terrible.  Most people will agree that Jones may not be the place to be the most successful, but one must survive before they can thrive in this business.  Jones seems to give people a better chance to survive than the wirehouses.

Mike Damone's picture
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Joined: 2004-12-01

AMP because it's always Riversource Funds and VUL.  I actually respect my local Edward Jones guys because they are hardworkers.  I just think the door knocking thing is tacky.

Indyone's picture
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Joined: 2005-05-31

The local rag had a medical column the other day titled something like "annual colonoscopies are a good idea" and instead of the good doctor's photo, there was the smiling mug of one of my Jones competitors.  We all got a good laugh over that one.
I wonder if the paper would accept my competing ad entitled "When you're tired of your Jones broker shoving it up your @ss, come see us!"
FD: The Jones guy is a good fellow and I like him...I just couldn't help laughing at the irony of the paper's mistake...
BTW, when it comes to my market, the AMP guy has the Jones guys beat when it comes to pathetic...no contest...

Philo Kvetch's picture
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Indyone wrote:
The local rag had a medical column the other day titled something like "annual colonoscopies are a good idea" and instead of the good doctor's photo, there was the smiling mug of one of my Jones competitors.  We all got a good laugh over that one.
I wonder if the paper would accept my competing ad entitled "When you're tired of your Jones broker shoving it up your @ss, come see us!"
FD: The Jones guy is a good fellow and I like him...I just couldn't help laughing at the irony of the paper's mistake...
BTW, when it comes to my market, the AMP guy has the Jones guys beat when it comes to pathetic...no contest...

GOOD HEAVENS! 
You don't happen to have an extra copy of that ad, do ya?

Indyone's picture
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Joined: 2005-05-31

I kept my copy...if there's a way to share it and maintain anonymity, I'll let you see it.  Obviously, I can't post a link publicly...
Now if you're talking about my proposed "ad", that's just an idea circulating in the amusement section of my brain...

rollinrock's picture
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Joined: 2007-05-15

You gotta love the generalizations here. In my area, the list of pathetic LPL reps is long. In this case, they are mostly low producers - you have to wonder how " sharp" they are as professionals. One of them is always digging for the next annuity sale and complaining about LPL ( but you get to choose from 20 different annuities!).
That doesn't make LPL bad.
But generalizing can help shrink the thinking portion of your brain.
On with the hypocracy, then, boys.

DRAPALA's picture
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Joined: 2006-01-14

Both are laughingstocks. Amp is terrible and Jones sucks  -   but, it doesn't matter what the "industry" thinks, it's what the customer thinks. 90% don't but there are Jones guys in small towns that make more money than the doctor that lives next door to them.

Big Taco's picture
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Joined: 2006-11-16

I think most of the national brokerages, banks, insurance firms (their investment side) and indys suck in my area, at least judging by the statements that I've sent up with ACAT forms.  and a few of them I think are just plain crooked.  but I'm not about to paint every office accross the country with the same brush.
that would be pretty stupid, wouldn't it?

rollinrock's picture
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but, it doesn't matter what the "industry" thinks, it's what the customer thinks.
Don't let the Ivy league guys in on our little secret.
There is probably too much thinking!
Go back to Bobby and his annuity rig ( picture it as a little boat that Bobby takes out, throws out his line, trolls, catches what he needs, and goes home and does something else).
The battle over the lures, the rig, the time he fishes, how many fish he takes - all of these regulation battles are fought in DC and NYC and the rules are what they are - what you are really fighting here is a battle to justify your own economic viewpoint, and maybe the way you see yourself as an advisor.
If there is full disclosure and understanding, and appropriateness, what makes what he does different than Allreit's fancy fee based bs or San Fran's fancy skyscraper office? The only common denominators are things like compliance, regulation, ethics, lawsuits, free choice - everything is bs.
Let's face it, Bobby may be the smartest person here. At least, the least hypocrital.
 

rollinrock's picture
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Joined: 2007-05-15

Everything else is bs. You would think that a bunch of free marketeers, with the potential to pull together, might start to want to take that concept to its logical conclusion in a more organized fashion. They might end up doing a lot of good, and making a lot more money, with a lot less effort. Anyway, it has to start with some kind of intellectual framework.

xej1984's picture
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Joined: 2004-11-30

please stick to your conversation with yourself to just one topic.

troll's picture
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Joined: 2004-11-29

"annual colonoscopies are a good idea"
Is there another way? (my Johnny Carson joke BTW)
You know what they use to check your colitis?
A colitisscope!
Nyuk Nyuk!

jones&out's picture
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Joined: 2006-04-22

Big Taco wrote:
I think most of the national brokerages, banks, insurance firms (their investment side) and indys suck in my area, at least judging by the statements that I've sent up with ACAT forms.  and a few of them I think are just plain crooked.  but I'm not about to paint every office accross the country with the same brush.
that would be pretty stupid, wouldn't it?

 
I always love statements like this.  How many ACATS do you perform in one week.  Is there really enough to consider the reps criminals or how many people have you put out of business for doing so many bad things.  Obviously you are going to get the people to ACAT who feel as though they have been wronged or ignored, sometimes justified.  On the other hand, you weren't sitting in on the first meeting to find out why the investments were set up in the way they were.  One indy guy in my area is deemed as a crook city wide but the only thing I have seen him do is be to aggressive in his recommendations, that doesn't make him a crook, it makes him bad at explaining what he means as aggressive to the person across the table.  On the other hand, we have a group of reps in town who have been investigated by the state insurance departent for hosting "senior lunches" and inappropriately selling Index Annuities.  I am personnally cleaning up four of them they sold, the worst of which was a 18 yr surrender sold to a 78 year old lady as an IRA.  The lady is now 82 and still has a surrender charge of 22% and taking the 10% free withdrawl, we have been able to get about 35% of the money away from the insurance company, this product should have never been sold to this lady.
On the very last note, I always found when I was at Ed Jones that most brokers didn't understand most of the products/platforms they were talking about.  When they didn't understand them, they instantly classified the people who used them as criminal.  Knowing that AMP isn't far from the apple grove that Jones is planted in, I'm guessing that Taco falls in that category.

AllREIT's picture
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Joined: 2006-12-16

jones&out wrote:On the very last note, I always found when I
was at Ed Jones that most brokers didn't understand most of the
products/platforms they were talking about.  When they didn't
understand them, they instantly classified the people who used them as
criminal.  Knowing that AMP isn't far from the apple grove that
Jones is planted in, I'm guessing that Taco falls in that category.

Versus the smart thing to do which is to educate yourself about them.

AMP requires a greater level of willful ignoranance, because if you really knew how bad the IDS VUL was you could never sell it.

In that respect EDJ is more harmless since mostly they pack people into decent mutual funds and then leave em alone. As we used to say in medical school, that doctor doesn't know enough medicine to harm the patient.

rollinrock's picture
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Joined: 2007-05-15

Yeah, I'll bet you sold a lot of VUL when you graduated medical school.
You don't sound like an intelligent business owner when you generalize about situations where you apparently have limited knowledge.
I imagine even embracing your own particular setup right now entails a bit of willful ignorance, or at least a little self deception about the opportunity costs and tradeoffs of your decisions: generalizing makes you sound ignorant, bragging about med school comes off like you think you're smarter just 'cause you run your particular little trolling rig at RIA. Gimme a break.

AllREIT's picture
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rollinrock wrote:Yeah, I'll bet you sold a lot of VUL when you graduated medical school.
Don't you know a tall tale when you told one?

rollinrock's picture
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Joined: 2007-05-15

 Well I gave you the benefit of the doubt about graduating, anyway.
In case you had not noticed, I have arrived at the conclusion that the level of hypocracy in this business is just about suffocating.
I know of an RIA at The Mutual Fund store that just shovels money into "no load" funds and charges an additional 1.5%. The business is all driven off AM radio talk shows and advertising. The model is simple but I don't see a lot of planning expertise or experience - but it is what it is represented to be, and it is yet another example of simple choice.
This guy thinks he's better than that guy, the only modicum of truth is that we are all professsionals and it always comes down to the individual. If you anyone here wants a real debate about some of the lame generalizations in this post regarding being affiliated with a particular business platform, bring it on.
 

Oldproducer's picture
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Joined: 2007-05-14

rollinrock wrote: This guy thinks he's better than that guy, the only modicum of truth is that we are all professsionals and it always comes down to the individual.

What are you a professional at? Student? Troll? Sock puppet? Dancer? We know you are not a Financial Advisor. Please stop playing as if you were.

Big Taco's picture
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Joined: 2006-11-16

jones&out wrote:Big Taco wrote:
I think most of the national brokerages, banks, insurance firms (their investment side) and indys suck in my area, at least judging by the statements that I've sent up with ACAT forms.  and a few of them I think are just plain crooked.  but I'm not about to paint every office accross the country with the same brush.
that would be pretty stupid, wouldn't it?

 
I always love statements like this.  How many ACATS do you perform in one week.  Is there really enough to consider the reps criminals or how many people have you put out of business for doing so many bad things.  Obviously you are going to get the people to ACAT who feel as though they have been wronged or ignored, sometimes justified.  On the other hand, you weren't sitting in on the first meeting to find out why the investments were set up in the way they were.  One indy guy in my area is deemed as a crook city wide but the only thing I have seen him do is be to aggressive in his recommendations, that doesn't make him a crook, it makes him bad at explaining what he means as aggressive to the person across the table.  On the other hand, we have a group of reps in town who have been investigated by the state insurance departent for hosting "senior lunches" and inappropriately selling Index Annuities.  I am personnally cleaning up four of them they sold, the worst of which was a 18 yr surrender sold to a 78 year old lady as an IRA.  The lady is now 82 and still has a surrender charge of 22% and taking the 10% free withdrawl, we have been able to get about 35% of the money away from the insurance company, this product should have never been sold to this lady.
On the very last note, I always found when I was at Ed Jones that most brokers didn't understand most of the products/platforms they were talking about.  When they didn't understand them, they instantly classified the people who used them as criminal.  Knowing that AMP isn't far from the apple grove that Jones is planted in, I'm guessing that Taco falls in that category.

So if people don't understand something, they classify it as criminal?  And if someone wasn't in the same room with another broker to see why they recommend a product, they'll ignorantly classify them as criminal?  Okay.... If you don't know me, but think you know where my "apple" came from, it's safe for you to classify me?Do you sound this stupid in person, or just on the internet?

Big Taco's picture
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AllREIT wrote: jones&out wrote:On the very last note, I always found when I was at Ed Jones that most brokers didn't understand most of the products/platforms they were talking about.  When they didn't understand them, they instantly classified the people who used them as criminal.  Knowing that AMP isn't far from the apple grove that Jones is planted in, I'm guessing that Taco falls in that category.
Versus the smart thing to do which is to educate yourself about them.AMP requires a greater level of willful ignoranance, because if you really knew how bad the IDS VUL was you could never sell it. In that respect EDJ is more harmless since mostly they pack people into decent mutual funds and then leave em alone. As we used to say in medical school, that doctor doesn't know enough medicine to harm the patient.
Blanket statements sound stupid.

Big Taco's picture
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Joined: 2006-11-16

jones&out wrote:Big Taco wrote:
I think most of the national brokerages, banks, insurance firms (their investment side) and indys suck in my area, at least judging by the statements that I've sent up with ACAT forms.  and a few of them I think are just plain crooked.  but I'm not about to paint every office accross the country with the same brush.
that would be pretty stupid, wouldn't it?

I always love statements like this.  How many ACATS do you perform in one week.  Is there really enough to consider the reps criminals or how many people have you put out of business for doing so many bad things.  Obviously you are going to get the people to ACAT who feel as though they have been wronged or ignored, sometimes justified.  On the other hand, you weren't sitting in on the first meeting to find out why the investments were set up in the way they were.  One indy guy in my area is deemed as a crook city wide but the only thing I have seen him do is be to aggressive in his recommendations, that doesn't make him a crook, it makes him bad at explaining what he means as aggressive to the person across the table.  On the other hand, we have a group of reps in town who have been investigated by the state insurance departent for hosting "senior lunches" and inappropriately selling Index Annuities.  I am personnally cleaning up four of them they sold, the worst of which was a 18 yr surrender sold to a 78 year old lady as an IRA.  The lady is now 82 and still has a surrender charge of 22% and taking the 10% free withdrawl, we have been able to get about 35% of the money away from the insurance company, this product should have never been sold to this lady.
On the very last note, I always found when I was at Ed Jones that most brokers didn't understand most of the products/platforms they were talking about.  When they didn't understand them, they instantly classified the people who used them as criminal.  Knowing that AMP isn't far from the apple grove that Jones is planted in, I'm guessing that Taco falls in that category.

The best part is that jonesout is qualified to evaluate whether or not the local financial people in his area are criminal or not.  but everyone else is probably just ignorant.
 

Philo Kvetch's picture
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Big Taco wrote:AllREIT wrote: jones&out wrote:On the very last note, I always found when I was at Ed Jones that most brokers didn't understand most of the products/platforms they were talking about.  When they didn't understand them, they instantly classified the people who used them as criminal.  Knowing that AMP isn't far from the apple grove that Jones is planted in, I'm guessing that Taco falls in that category.
Versus the smart thing to do which is to educate yourself about them.AMP requires a greater level of willful ignoranance, because if you really knew how bad the IDS VUL was you could never sell it. In that respect EDJ is more harmless since mostly they pack people into decent mutual funds and then leave em alone. As we used to say in medical school, that doctor doesn't know enough medicine to harm the patient.
Blanket statements sound stupid.

In the event you hadn't noticed, that's a blanklet statement that you've just made.
Ironic, isn't it?

AGE_Inside_Info's picture
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Joined: 2007-06-03

Interesting post about The Mutual Fund Sore. They ARE only RIAs who throw
darts at Mr. Bold's MF picks.

Word is that after Summit Partners recently invested capital in The Mutual
Fund Store, the SEC is looking into the store for lack of compliance. A month
ago they were advertising for their first nat'l compliance official on their
website. They are working towards 100 stores all over the country and have
no compliance!!!!

Bye Bye Mutual Fund Store!

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