Bud,

  You have an amateur outlook on profitablity. To think that "payout" determains profitablity for WFC/WS is naive at best. ISG is not the highest percentage profit center at WFC/WS. This is a fact, not an opinion. Ask one of the tellers across the room, they probably understand the concept better than you.   Since FiNet average payout is closer to 85% with ticket charges, money manager fees, haircuts for loans, etc. the actual payout to a FiNet office is closer to the 65% range. Then you add the fact that the parent company doesn't pay for anything and the average production for a FiNet broker is about 3X greater than an ISG guy.   So were you saying ISG was more profitable because its true or because you want to believe it? Try your math again and I hope your "definition" of profitablity isn't the same one you use when you look at investments for you clients.

Bud:  First, and most importantly, what does it say to you that people are leaving that were previously paid a retention?

  Secondly, the FA that leaves only need repay the balance of what they owe.  By most accounts they are getting paid more than what they owe to leave.  I have read that the new firms are paying the other firm, and just take it out of the upfront bonus they paid the FA to come over.
So it's not a big deal.

Go_Long

  That is just my point the firm will be paid back one way or another.  More reason for WFC to pay.  Its just  that brokers can't keep jumping from one firm to another clients only follow so many times unill they get fed up.   This is why everyone here is so pissed off at wells for not understanding the industry,,,,,,DL gets it that is why he paid pru and age.  The problem here is with wells.  They just don't get retention pay.  Even AIG paid retention at end of year to their key employees.   WFC needs to pay

[
[/quote]

I don’t have a dog in this hunt…I left AGE a number of years ago because of a challenge I had with local management.

    isnt it  i dont have a dog in this fight?   I dont have a dog in this hunt?

I dont get the buzz off of rallys as much in this MF bear.

nice little bounce off 7900ish    used to be like a shot of Prozac   beaten MF dog I guess.........(bottom?)  

Punk

  You must be the smallest producer on here if your ticket charges are 20% of your gross you must have the smallest ticket size in the industry.   Not sure where you avg #'s come from. Infomax has the segments broken down and your math is more than a little off.   Top payout in isg is 40% and we pay rent to bank for our office space.....so my teller today said bud mmmmmmm let me understand this for every dollar bud produce's WB  keeps at least 60 cents and bud still pays rent to them on top of it............Hmmmmmm  now I know why your not a teller......the way you count and if you were a teller wachovia would have failed much sooner than it did

thats right

  "that dog dont hunt" and "i have no dog in that fight" he made his own   i have no dog in that hunt    

ISG guys stay in bank branches?   right?

  and the bank people give them referrals?   do they do stocks? pim etc?    or just funds?

Punk

Teller just reminded me......I forgot to include the kick back to bankers......they get 10% of the max 40%....so max net at ISG is 30 and very few fa's are in the 40 payout grid.  Most bank fa's are closer to 35% payout so bank keeps 75% on bank referrals and 100% of our rent.......hmmmmmmmmmm teller still thinks ISG may be a little more profitable to WFC than Fi net..........This is why they took us into WMG.  Gotta protect the golden goose!!!!!!

[quote=Bud Fox FL]Punk

  You must be the smallest producer on here if your ticket charges are 20% of your gross you must have the smallest ticket size in the industry.   Not sure where you avg #'s come from. Infomax has the segments broken down and your math is more than a little off.   Top payout in isg is 40% and we pay rent to bank for our office space.....so my teller today said bud mmmmmmm let me understand this for every dollar bud produce's WB  keeps at least 60 cents and bud still pays rent to them on top of it............Hmmmmmm  now I know why your not a teller......the way you count and if you were a teller wachovia would have failed much sooner than it did[/quote]   Bud,   The fact of the matter is that ALL distribution channels are profitable. Its also a fact that most Finet owners don't actually NET anything much different than a PCG or ISG broker after they pay for everything on their own. Sure Finet has a higher payout, but the firm also has next to ZERO overhead for Finet offices. The difference is that the Finet brokers have chosen to take on the additional risk and expense of being a business owner rather than an employee. ALL channels have been greatly damaged by the way Wells has handled this, and ALL channels deserve a retention that is above the industry standard. Its also a fact that when it comes time to make a move, I can and will leave a lot easier than a ISG or PCG broker. No having covert meetings out of the office with recruiters, no late night black ops of copying client contact information whrn the BOM isn't around. No change in location, just re-paper everything and start the ACATs. I would hope that you would be rooting for ALL of us that have been screwed by this deal.

training wheels:

I would hope that you would be rooting for ALL of us that have been screwed by this deal.

  Amen !

Bud,

  I don't pretend to know anything about your channel - I am still trying to figure out PCG - but, if your source is the teller...????

[quote=punkbynature] Bud,

You have an amateur outlook on profitablity. To think that “payout” determains profitablity for WFC/WS is naive at best. ISG is not the highest percentage profit center at WFC/WS. This is a fact, not an opinion. Ask one of the tellers across the room, they probably understand the concept better than you.



Since FiNet average payout is closer to 85% with ticket charges, money manager fees, haircuts for loans, etc. the actual payout to a FiNet office is closer to the 65% range. Then you add the fact that the parent company doesn’t pay for anything and the average production for a FiNet broker is about 3X greater than an ISG guy.



So were you saying ISG was more profitable because its true or because you want to believe it? Try your math again and I hope your “definition” of profitablity isn’t the same one you use when you look at investments for you clients. [/quote]



FiNet is nowhere near 3xavg pcg production, sorry.

[quote=punkbynature] Bud,

You have an amateur outlook on profitablity. To think that “payout” determains profitablity for WFC/WS is naive at best. ISG is not the highest percentage profit center at WFC/WS. This is a fact, not an opinion. Ask one of the tellers across the room, they probably understand the concept better than you.



Since FiNet average payout is closer to 85% with ticket charges, money manager fees, haircuts for loans, etc. the actual payout to a FiNet office is closer to the 65% range. Then you add the fact that the parent company doesn’t pay for anything and the average production for a FiNet broker is about 3X greater than an ISG guy.



So were you saying ISG was more profitable because its true or because you want to believe it? Try your math again and I hope your “definition” of profitablity isn’t the same one you use when you look at investments for you clients. [/quote]



You finet guys wanted to be "on your own’’…you go on and on about independence, etc, etc…why is it you now feel like you are “partners” with wb/wfc when the retention bucket goes around? You are not.



You’re on your own. You take the risk and get the financial reward. A risk is missing retention: i can see no reason why you qualify, which I expressed on a firm FA panel in st louis. It was roundly agreed by all but the one finet guy who kept whining about “his partners” problems (first time he ever referred to wb this way, of course)…after, of course, puffing his chest out quarter after quarter about his independence.



You’re getting what you asked for here…independence…free from wb/wfc…and its retention.



Finet has been a disappointment to the firm and it has been discussed as a sale candidate to a larger independent, anyway. Go ahead…take your $30mm AUM and $300k practices…see if wfc gives a $hit. You can do that because it is YOUR (read: independent, 1099 employee, your practice, you own it, WFC owes you nothing) practice, right???

It’s great watching a glorified teller try to do math on something other than a deposit slip.

  You're complaining about rent to the bank branch?? Come on... try making payroll for a team. Rent is about 3% of our monthly expenses

[quote=BukiRob

  Do you make this up as you go?  You havent done an annuity in 4 years?  Well if that is true you most certainly arent doing distribution planning for them. You must not be using any planning tools to make sure that critical expenses are covered regardless of what happens with the markets.   Im sorry but I call BS.  The average production is down 35%   You yourself said that your account performance is no different from anyone else.  Just to maintain what you did in 07 if you were a million dollar producer, you'd have had to brought in 35 million in net new assets net to you at 1%.   I dont know, maybe you are a guy doing 200 in a normal market so you dont have as many assests to bring in to get back to whole.[/quote]   Buki,   So are you saying that you cannot do distribution planning unless you are doing annuities?   Maybe if you look at the timing of the posts you can gain a little insight.  Why are you posting after 8:00 am?? And why do I post in the evenings?  Like I said earlier - I am not doing anything different than you, accept continuing to go after new business.  As we all know - there is no silver bullet to this business - it all comes down to being pro-active.    Are you not bringing in any new business in this climate?? or, are you waiting for the economy to recover so that you can capture new business.  Has the economy reduced the impression your referral sources (cpas and cois) have in your abilities.  Now, coming in to the tax season, especially after 2008, if you have postioned properly, you should be getting new business almost daily.   Again, my numbers are up only because I am logging in the time.  And, as far as net 35 net new - not that big of deal - if you go and look at the rep rankings you will see that there are a multitude of reps that have brought in new advisory business well above $35mm.   (I should have know making a comment about production would have brought out doubters.  In stead of doubing - you should be asking, "how"?)