Recruiters

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NASD NewbieGroupieJoined: Aug. 01 2005Location: United StatesPosts: 58

Posted: June 28 2006 at 11:47am | IP Logged

JCadieux wrote:

All three of us (Broker Recruit, Recruiting Ace, and Myself) are independent recruiters.  None of us works directly for a wirehouse.
I think there are those who would be interested in knowing who pays you and how much?

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What would you like to know and I will be more than happy to answer what I feel comfortable with.  Not sure how JC and RA feel about this, but I'm open to a discussion...

JCadieux's picture
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All of our fees are paid by the hiring brokerage.  You will find that this is the case with the vast majority of recruiters today.  There is absolutely no cost to you.Additionally, we do not try to sell you "follow up" services such as resume writing or interview coaching.  There is some disagreement on this among recruiters, but I strongly believe that taking money from candidates represents a conflict of interest.Since all of our funds come from long term contracts with hiring brokerages, we are motivated to find a "win-win or no deal" situation for each candidate. 

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In 1970 or so, firms started transitioning from APFs (applicant-paid fees) to EPFs (employer-paid fees).  The thought behind this was that the unemployed  (who then were the ones looking for employment vs. the employed) had trouble finding the funds to cover these fees. 
It was a difficult transition at first, until the industry started doing this as a whole and it soon became understood that EPFs were the norm.
In my situation, I only work with experienced FAs moving from one firm to another, with verifiable assets.  Typically this is on the independent side, but have done some work with regionals and wires.
The fees are based on verified T12 and go against the branch P&L for a wire/regional or the Business Development Department's budget for independents.

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BrokerRecruit wrote:In my situation, I only work with experienced FAs moving from one firm to another, with verifiable assets.  Typically this is on the independent side, but have done some work with regionals and wires.
The fees are based on verified T12 and go against the branch P&L for a wire/regional or the Business Development Department's budget for independents.We work with candidates both with and without books.Like BR above, our firm places candidates with verifiable assets at wirehouse, bank and independent clients.  With a few exceptions, our fee to the hiring brokerage is a percentage of trailing 12.  The percentage of T12 structure is pretty standard when placing established brokers.We also place FAs without books at the wirehouse level.  We only work with licensed, experienced reps with a proven track record.  The hiring brokerage pays us a flat fee per hire, and we refund the fee if the candidate does not work out.

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If I am a hiring manager why should I hire somebody being presented to me--with a fee attached--instead of somebody who I sense will contribute as much to my team that comes without a fee attached?
Why do I need a recruiter to tell me that Bob Broker at my competitor is looking?  Why doesn't Bob get in touch with me himself and negotiate a bigger signing bonus since Iwon't have to pay a recruiter?

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That's exactly why I don't work with wirehouses anymore.  It is silly to me to compete with everyone - current FAs, the managers, internal recruiters and a slew of guys like me looking for that one rep that will move.  It is fruitless in my mind. 
I prefer to work with the independent BDs that I have exclusivity with and work with the large OSJ practices.  Thus, I have capitalized on my relationship with the company, and can almost act as an external HR department from my office.

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BrokerRecruit wrote:
I prefer to work with the independent BDs that I have exclusivity with and work with the large OSJ practices.  Thus, I have capitalized on my relationship with the company, and can almost act as an external HR department from my office.

So, I'm Bob Broker at Smith Barney and I've decided to become an Indy.
How do I benefit by letting you know I'm out here?  What would you be able to do for me that I cannot do for myself?

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NASD Newbie,
Please allow me to address your question as follows:
As far as the benefit to a candidate to use a recruiter, here is a real, and immediate example.   I have six candidates who will be starting with Smioth Barney on Monday.
Candidate #1:  He had met with UBS and basically turned them down after being treated like just another number.  Morgan Stanley had stepped up to the plate and was getting ready to make him an offer that he was ready to sign before I stepped in.  He didn't even know Smith Barney had an office where he was looking, much less that they were looking for one more candidate to hire this year.  Today he accepted an offer at Smith Barney. 
Candidate #2:  She had submitted her resume three different times to Smith Barney through their automated system to no avail.  Typically, they do not hire anyone without a degree unless they have a very good story to tell.  Enter me.  Because I am not an automated system that kicks her resume out because of the lack of degree, I had the privilege to hear and understand her story, and even better, I got the opportunity to tell her story to the hiring manager.  Four weeks later, she received an offer.  She starts on Monday.
Candidate #3:  She knew that Smith Barney was hiring, but she already had an offer at Merrill Lynch lined up.  We talk, I tell her about all of the advantages with Smith Barney, and she decides to put Merrill on hold.  She also starts on Monday.
Candidate #4:  He was days from signing the paperwork necessary to start his own Allstate Agency.  I get to talking to him, I make the introduction, and as you can conclude, he also starts on Monday...
Shall I continue??
Point number one.  If these candidates could have "just gone to Smith Barney themselves," then why didn't they?  There are many reasons as I have given examples of just a few. 
Point number two:  If it weren't for we recruiters, these candidates would never have shown up at he company front doors for an interview.    In other words, we act as agents not only for our candidates, but ALSO for the companies we represent.
Are there managers out there who try and do it on their own?  You bet there are.   But if they are like us, they are having to screen through 50 resumes and spending about 5 hours to read through these resumes just to decide to speak with 10.  And then they're spending an hour or two with each of those ten in order to qualify maybe three good prospects.  Out of those three, maybe one will get hired. So let's see, that's 5 hours for resume reading, then another 15-20 hous in initial interviews to qualify three in order to hire one.  By my calculations that's about 25-30 hours of initial screening.
How many managers do you know out there who have 25-30 hours to spend to find the exact right candidate? 
Instead, we recruiters spend those 25-30 hours to result in one hire.  And that is one reason why managers are happy to pay our fee.
Questions??

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RecruitingAce wrote:
Questions??

Yes, one.
Why would a guy who graduated from the USAFA not be able to get a real job?

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Newbie, Newbie, Newbie...
 

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RecruitingAce wrote:
Newbie, Newbie, Newbie...

Come on now, admit it.  You're wondering the same thing.

no idea's picture
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That was pretty funny.
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SymReal = window.;
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Biasedrecruiter's picture
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My fellow recruiters have made some excellent points however I believe NASD Newbie is not sincere with his questions.

troll's picture
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NASD Newbie wrote:RecruitingAce wrote:
Questions??

Yes, one.
Why would a guy who graduated from the USAFA not be able to get a real job?You mean perhaps as a mid-level bureaucrat wage slave at a wirehouse?  A travelling branch manager on demand?  Vice President of Paperclip Procurement?  Something like that?

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Okay, I hate to  bite, but I will.
I used to work at HP for 4 years, but left there to fly for an airline.  It turns out flying for the airlines after September 11th was a real drag - little pay, no time to spend with my 4 kids, etc.
So now I'm "just" a recruiter. No, it's not a "real" job.  I HAVE to be home every day, and I HAVE to make my own schedule, and I don't GET to answer to anybody, and for all that, I make more money than I ever did when I worked in a "REAL" job.  And it really stinks too when someone asks me to fly them somewhere around the country and I have to tell them, YES, because I am beholden to no one.
Newbie, come to think of it, this job DOES stink.  Are they taking any applications over where you work?  And.. where is it that you work?
Thanks for setting me straight...  
   

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NASD Newbie wrote:RecruitingAce wrote:

Questions??

Yes, one.

Why would a guy who graduated from the USAFA not be able to get a real job?

I have to join in on this discussion... I have had several family members that
have graduated from USAFA and USMA.

- Your a damn Clown for ever saying something like that about a United States Commissioned
Officer. They do more in four hours than you accomplish in a whole day.

- Who are you? What do you for a living, you most likely sell car insurance or
work at a call center.

How come everyone on this message board always has something negative to say
about one another? From what I see, the people that have something to say about
someone's success or idea on a topic and respond in a negative manner are just
clowns... that’s its, just remember Newbie you don’t have the stones ever
to put on a uniform (this of course does not count when you worked at UPS) and
do a job that no one wants to do; such as work at that call center.

BrokerRecruit's picture
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Just when I was starting to like NASD better than BEF and Put...

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RecruitingAce wrote:
Okay, I hate to  bite, but I will.
I used to work at HP for 4 years, but left there to fly for an airline.  It turns out flying for the airlines after September 11th was a real drag - little pay, no time to spend with my 4 kids, etc.   

Why not go back to HP?

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This is either going to be one of the hardest $50k/year careers out there, or one of the easiest $200k/year careers.  It's up to the recruiter and what they can do.
I have determined that going from wire to wire is something that can be done very easily, with the (for example) ML FA calling the MS BM and striking up a conversation without me being involved.  I won't compete with internal/other external efforts and will only work deals that I/our company have exclusivity with. 
It's much like being an FA, you find your niche (who you work for/who you work with/who you recruit) and running with it.  It oftentimes will take many years to get things off the ground and running. 
There are different fee structures that can be paid as well.  I do many deals that are split between front and back-end, where I have recurring revenue each month as opposed to a purely transactional operation. 
Many think that recruiting is for those that have failed in other professions.  I have now found that many internal recruiters and HR professionals are former externals who failed at this because it is infinitely more difficult.

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NASD Newbie wrote:If I am a hiring manager why should I hire somebody being presented to me--with a fee attached--instead of somebody who I sense will contribute as much to my team that comes without a fee attached?Most national firms pay for headhunter fees out of a centralized budget.  This allows firms to take advantage of opportunities wherever they find them.  This is especially true when the new BM at a competitor's branch turns out to be a jerk and his whole office decides to change firms simultaneously.Managers rarely fill all of their slots with internal efforts.  Frankly, I think they have better things to do than prospect for brokers.  Their time is best spent on interviewing, negotiating, onboarding and retention.  On the competetive side, we find the people who are "just curious" and get them the information they need to make a decision.  Once they're committed to leave, we help them find their best deal.On the transition side (no book) we find experienced candidates with a much better than average chance of success compared to your typical new hire. 
NASD Newbie wrote:
Why do I need a recruiter to tell me that Bob Broker at my
competitor is looking?  Why doesn't Bob get in touch with me himself
and negotiate a bigger signing bonus since Iwon't have to pay a
recruiter?This is a pervasive and annoying myth.  In no cases will our fee reduce the available funds for your deal
(at a wirehouse).  In fact, it has been our experience that represented
brokers get better deals because they are better informed of market
conditions, manager personalities, timing considerations and the
immediate needs of different firms.Since we do several kinds of candidates (from trainees to producers to
managers) we are in touch with our BMs and RMs on a regular basis. 
This regular contact helps our account managers gather information and
build relationships.

Look at it this way:  It is possible for investors to work without a
financial advisor.  But they are better informed (and get better
results) when they work with a good advisor.  The primary difference is the investor pays their FA, while the hiring brokerage pays us.

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Do you tap universities for candidates? Like job fairs, interview bidding, etc.? What has been your results with students straight out of school?

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Never done it.  Never will do it.  No experience to lend in that dept.

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Breaston15 wrote:Do you tap universities for candidates? Like job fairs, interview bidding, etc.? What has been your results with students straight out of school?Sorry, we only work with experienced candidates.  I've gotten some good referrals through my Alma Mata (Baylor), but that's only been with established FAs.When we work with transition ('no book') candidates, our job is to bring in candidates that have a better shot than kids straight out of school.  There are lots of experienced, capable advisors that either have no portable book or have left a book behind.  We also work with trainees in current programs that want to move to a better program.Think about it:  as a branch manager would you rather have ONE experienced proven candidate or TWO kids straight out of college?

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I'll add a couple of points to the discussion:
First, don't feed the troll (i.e. don't respond to Put Trade/Big Easy Flood/Nasd Newbie).  No matter how many times he gets booted out of here, he continues to come back under a new screen name.  The only way will ever be rid of him is if we stop responding to him.
Second, I do know quite a bit about the legal side of the head hunter business.  Much like in this business, they are paid a percentage of the candidates income - back in the salad days of the late 90's they were paid 50% of salary, which meant anywhere from $60,000 to $150,000 for placing a single associate, and significantly more for placing partners.  Not a bad gig.  The good news was that a recruiter could get your resume past HR and into the hands of a hiring partner.  The bad news was that using a recruiter might lower your signing bonus.
Choosing to use a recruiter is no different than choosing to use a professional or do it yourself in any other business (ours included).  If they are good, they can help you immensely, but there is a cost, even if you don't pay it directly out of your pocket.

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This seems to be an interesting business.  My observation is that like alot of FAs, recruiters are paid for gathering assets.  Both transfer of experienced reps and newbies.
While one of the recruiters on here mentioned getting high salaries for trainees 70-100k..I can only assume that these candidates (placements) had high AUM potential in their "business plans".
Is this a correct assessment?  Nothing wrong with this model and I could see how the firms are smart in utilizing outside recruiters...Any comments?
 
 

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JCadieux wrote:
I've gotten some good referrals through my Alma Mata (Baylor), but that's only been with established FAs. You'll find this amazing--there is another poster on this forum from Baylor.  BaylorJoyce1 is the name they use.
You should look them up.  What do you think the odds are that two people from Baylor would both be posting on an obscure forum like this?
Wait, could it be?  Jeff, are you also BaylorJoyce1?

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Would you guys please stop calling me. I am not interested. Sorry, I heard those damn sirens again.

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"It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it." Aristotle 

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IH - you're a moron.

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Honestly, we would all be better off not to REPLY IN ANY WAY TO : Put Trader, NASD Newbie, and Incredible Hulk.  Who may just be the same person.  Let them rant and rave.  Call names, whatever.  Just do not respond IN ANY WAY TO THEM.
Broker Recruit, you are well liked and well respected.  Your fee is similar to our fees.  If you provide the client with value (as I am sure you do) the fee is worth it.
Don't let the idiots get you down.

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Believe me, I don't.  I could give two **its what some tool thinks.

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Rugby wrote:This seems to be an interesting business.  My observation is that like alot of FAs, recruiters are paid for gathering assets.  Both transfer of experienced reps and newbies.
While one of the recruiters on here mentioned getting high salaries for trainees 70-100k..I can only assume that these candidates (placements) had high AUM potential in their "business plans".

Is this a correct assessment?  Nothing wrong with this model and I could see how the firms are smart in utilizing outside recruiters...Any comments? Rugby-You are absolutely correct.  No experienced trainee gets hired by a top firm without a good business plan.  And nobody gets to the top of the salary range without a great plan."Trainee" is a very loose term here.  Some of these people are so experienced they could TEACH classes.Some examples of salaried FAs that we have placed include:

  • High potential trainees that want to upgrade to a better program.
  • Top producers at "B" and "C" quality firms that can not move their books.  This is especially true at banks and proprietary firms.
  • FAs at family offices and hedge funds that can not move their books.
  • Independents who have sold their book and want to start over in a new market (such as Hawaii).
  • Wholesalers, compliance managers, analysts, and even some branch managers who want to get back into production.
  • Underappreciated, overworked sales assistants that are way overdue for a promotion to full FA.

For many of these candidates, "Training" means primarily filling in the gaps in product knowledge  (not everybody has worked with commodities, for example).My favorite candidates are the "out of the box" candidates that do not
have financial services experience.  I've run into licensed CPAs, trust
attorneys, former elected officials, "C" level executives, retiring
athletes and even a former runway model (married to a Hollywood
producer) that want to break into the business.  Unfortunately, not all
of my clients will take unlicensed candidates.

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Jeff-
Can you give us your assessment of current market conditions for a career changer's entry into FA?  What do you tell your clients?

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Rugby wrote:Jeff-
Can you give us your assessment of current market conditions for a career changer's entry into FA?  What do you tell your clients?Well, I can't tell you everything without knowing the particulars of your situation, but here are some key points.

  • I'ts a great time to be an FA.  Demand is going up with the retirement of the boomers.  People are recognizing the need for help in a complex financial world.
  • This is also a very competetive time to be an FA.  Most new FAs fail during their first two years.  This is not a career for the faint of heart.  However, if you can survive the first years and build a book of loyal, long-term clients then it is a very rewarding career.
  • This is not a place to escape.  If you've been unsuccssful in other sales roles then you'll be unsuccessful here.
  • If you can sell, then you're half way there.  Good salespeople can see early success but a higher than average client turnover will limit your earnings.
  • The best FAs have exceptional sales AND money management skills.  They are also willing to work hard to build a stronger long-term practice.
  • The best transitions are exceptional people.  It's hard to describe, but you know it when you see it.  If you want to be "just another advisor" then you probably won't make it.
  • The best transitions also have natural markets.  I'm not talking about a rich uncle here.  I'm talking about some natural advantage when working with a particular target market.  I've seen career changes use race, religion, gender, ethnicity, previous job experience, personal contacts, investment styles, hobbies, charities, and civic organizations to define their target markets.
  • Charities and civic organizations only make good target markets if you've been an established member for some time.  Nobody welcomes "yet another" financial advisor joining an organization just weeks after getting a job.
  • Sell your successes.  Be specific.  Bring numbers.  "I sold $XXX,XXX last year, which is XXX% of quota.  I have consistently made between XXX% and XXX% of quota throughout my career."
  • Other good things to mention on a resume are sales awards, prospecting techniques and the kinds of people that you deal with.  Sales awards shows performance relative to your peers.  Prospecting techniques shows that you went out to find new clients, rather than having warm prospects delivered to you.  And the level of client shows your familiarity with building relationships (presumably with HNW consumers or executives).
  • Nobody is going to "give" you this job.  You've got to prove your worth. But don't be too eager.  Over-excitement is a true sign of a novice salesperson.
  • Go into the interview with a business plan.  A two page summary is arguably the best format.  But don't show it off until they ask the right questions.
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Jeff,
You seem to be ignoring some the dark trends in the industry. This is a downsizing industry both in head counts and risk. Like never before brokers and production are targets of regulatory and firm scapegoating working in concert. Since these "supervision" roles are for the "public good" and in the scandal fallout age we live in it has given dealers (ironically) even more power over production than ever before. You might be making more or less than the past based on your particulars but your risks and controls have declined dramatically regardless of your production. There is some relief for those who escape to the RIA world but they work night and day on ruining that option as well. 
It's hardly a "job" for most producers. More like a deck hand on a pirate ship that will gladly throw you to the sharks at the drop of a hat. Brokers takes the risks, get more than their share of blame and live with a crew of know-it-all non-producers in the wings at all times. I've never scene this dolt head count higher or with more arrogance and hostility than today as a side note. It's all in the ticket charges somewhere and/or the grid. Reasonable due process is at an all-time low for disputes. You need a lawyer on retainer in the background at all times today.
It would be a better industry if brokers had their own license away from dealers at this point. They get little protection for the money kicked upstairs in this new world. As for recruiters it's important to remember they generally work for firms and are not like sports agents working for brokers or even middle men. There are regulatory mandates that maintain this structure and role, it's better than nothing but..... So most recruiters are simply moving production from location "A" to location "B" with little real improvement for the general production population and working standards that have declined greatly. The independent movement is another issue on closer study; again there is more reward but with greater risks and costs that most independent producers can't control or comment on. All the dealers act as a union through the NASD or SIA or both much of the time in the background. They certainly have an ax to grind against producers much of the time.
I would tell most newer people or the young to leave this segment if they have the chance. Leave this all to the crusty old people who have enough to endure this trend line. I realize this isn't the only industry to suffer this track but this is more honest and balanced then the puff usually found here. It would be better with a general value lift in equities but the trend line is clear, it's all about less for production, lower margins, fewer choices for production. As the "fee" system becomes the norm expect even larger commodization attacks on existing production by most firms. Top-line production will become purely institutionally priced and suffer that same fate as the once former fat-cat sales people have scene before.
 
 
 
 
 
 

ezmoney's picture
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And who are you seeker? So this industry is doomed for us low AUM'ers $20-30 mill ??

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ezmoney wrote:And who are you seeker? So this industry is doomed for us low AUM'ers $20-30 mill ??
In the shakeout that occured in the 1970s just about everybody who was registered in 1975 was gone by 1982.  There were wirehouse offices with two or three brokers--being kept open by the firms because they felt they needed a presence in that town.
I said it the other day, but it's worth repeating.  If you consider yourself to be on thin ice when it comes to the chances of you being a long timer you're going to wash out when the Bear arrives--and for all we know he is in the house.

ezmoney's picture
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You're a big fat bear who made a moderate income throughout your career.  What do you do now newbie?

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ezmoney wrote:You're a big fat bear who made a moderate income throughout your career.  What do you do now newbie?
Trade Google options and go out of town for a month at a time four or five times a year.

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NASD Newbie wrote:
ezmoney wrote:You're a big fat bear who made a moderate income throughout your career.  What do you do now newbie?
Trade Google options and go out of town for a month at a time four or five times a year.

Obviously there are many others who can't stand to have you around.

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Philo Kvetch wrote:NASD Newbie wrote:
ezmoney wrote:You're a big fat bear who made a moderate income throughout your career.  What do you do now newbie?
Trade Google options and go out of town for a month at a time four or five times a year.

Obviously there are many others who can't stand to have you around.

Somebody with good mental health would have said, "Hey, that sounds like fun.  Where have you been, where do you plan to go?"
But this sad sack, peering up from the sewer through the green eyes of envy, comes up with that.  Sad, pathetic even.
 

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Thanks for the response Jeff....Newbie...maybe new FAs entering biz in a bear, will grab assets from unhappy investors displeased with the do it yourself mutual fund industry...
or grab some BIG assets from the wealthly unhappy with their 2/20% arrangements with hedge funds buying crude and metal futures with big leverage- trying in earnest to beat the averages and blowing up..
Need to press hard to earn 2 & 20% on AUM...Can't be all doom and gloom, I think replacing hedge funds rich/risky dealings with sound FA relationships... may make offer some hope in bear....who knows....

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Rugby wrote:
Thanks for the response Jeff....Newbie...maybe new FAs entering biz in a bear, will grab assets from unhappy investors displeased with the do it yourself mutual fund industry...
or grab some BIG assets from the wealthly unhappy with their 2/20% arrangements with hedge funds buying crude and metal futures with big leverage- trying in earnest to beat the averages and blowing up..
Need to press hard to earn 2 & 20% on AUM...Can't be all doom and gloom, I think replacing hedge funds rich/risky dealings with sound FA relationships... may make offer some hope in bear....who knows....

As somebody who knows a bit about entering the biz during a bear market I will agree that investors who would have never considered talking to you might just talk to you after all.
However, that does not mean that they're going to be all that eager to trust you.  When an investor sees a huge portion of his life savings simply disappear it is going to be difficult to get him to believe he should keepdoing what he's been doing--just with a different person.
The reality is that most people will go to cash--and there will be a huge number of arbitrations as people line up to raise their hand and swear that they were not told that their money was going to be locked up for ten years or something in a VA. They will actually believe you did not tell them, so will the arbitrators.
Your firm will be ordered to make the client whole--that will mean liquidating the VA.  The manager will have to sell the holdings to get the cash, the selling will drive prices lower and somebody else will raise their hand and swear that their advisor failed to tell them.....
Meanwhile the media will keep up a drum beat of negativity, some simply negative spin but some actual bad news.  Interest rates will be rising, homes will be being repossed, stories will appear on ABC News about a guy who just committed suicide because his retirement plan was worth so little that he could not retire.
Y'all just don't know what it can be like--you're like a bunch of sheep standing around telling each other, "Nothings wrong here....."

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Joined: 2006-06-06

Newbie-
You started right before a bear and survived.  Were you a producer or in branch managemen, or other during this time who had to witness the carnage?
Did you ever read the book Confessions of a Stockbroker by Brutus? If not, I'd bet you enjoy it. 
 

Philo Kvetch's picture
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Joined: 2005-05-17

NASD Newbie wrote:Philo Kvetch wrote:NASD Newbie wrote:
ezmoney wrote:You're a big fat bear who made a moderate income throughout your career.  What do you do now newbie?
Trade Google options and go out of town for a month at a time four or five times a year.

Obviously there are many others who can't stand to have you around.

Somebody with good mental health would have said, "Hey, that sounds like fun.  Where have you been, where do you plan to go?"
But this sad sack, peering up from the sewer through the green eyes of envy, comes up with that.  Sad, pathetic even.
 

In all the time you've been posting here under your various personae, you haven't once mentioned being anywhere else, save your forays into internet sales on eBay.  Given your penchant for the fantastic, you wouldn't have been able to refrain from crowing about it.  Ergo, you haven't been anywhere.
I think you're just a lonely, self-involved BS artist.
See you in the funny papers, piker!

Gone Indy's picture
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Joined: 2005-12-02

ezmoney wrote:You're a big fat bear who made a moderate income throughout your career.  What do you do now newbie?
He told us on another thread that he rides around the city on a train reading Parade magazine

munytalks's picture
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Joined: 2006-04-17

Gone Indy wrote:
ezmoney wrote:You're a big fat bear who made a moderate income throughout your career.  What do you do now newbie?
He told us on another thread that he rides around the city on a train reading Parade magazine

CORRECTION! He said he didn't NEED to read it to know what it was about.... he's  Carnac the Magician now!

Seeker15's picture
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Joined: 2006-06-20

It's a pretty hard board, if you express anything beyond sales bravado and Pollyanna you become a target and the exchanges go south quickly. It should be a trade forum where you can discuss perhaps special interest or complicated industry topics without fear on mockery and abuse but it is what it is.
* If it's such a great business why is there such fear, paranoia, insecurity, turnover, lawsuits of all shapes and sizes, excess regulation, scapegoating, acts of fraud, wage and price controls through regulatory proxy, defamation and in-fighting of many sorts all of which dominate most related trade journals?
I'm not saying you can't find these features in other industries but are you telling me there is an industry with as much of this as ours? (Health care I would say is the nearest example) Are you trying to tell newer people that the situation has gotten better on a median basis for producers in the last ten years? (If yes, send me a PM as I have bridge to sell you, again we're judging the median results not the special case or anecdotal success as if we are infomercial participants. )
Don't waste your time smearing at posters but address the points made. It seems a little dense to label anyone who points out any of the obvious above which our own trade journals spend much of their time reporting on that they are being negative and are therefore losers from this ever positive (in their own mind) board consensus.
Nothing I said was an attack on Jeff or others who posted encouraging statements about the profession but I thought to add a little balance which I would argue is sorely lacking as a rule. If we are professionals and not sales people would should do away with that overhang of the past as well. What's obvious of course is that the industry wants to impose professional liability on you while at the same time it wants to maintain the same product pushing/numbers counting sales culture it has always had. How firms get away with being both the judge and jury while they often exempt themselves is one thing. How participants these rationalize these topics are another.
You shouldn't come to this board to get stupid about your industry. A little salt with the sales management hype isn't going to kill anyone.
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 

JCadieux's picture
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Joined: 2005-01-23

Rugby wrote:Thanks for the response Jeff....

Glad I could help.

The above list was not meant to be exhaustive.  Yes, I should have
included the growth of regulation as another bullet point, but the message was
already pretty long.  Hopefully it's a good place to start.

Keep in mind that the regulars on this board seem to fall into several distinct
categories.

  • Some are bitter failures that
    use this board to vent their frustrations anonymously in order to cope
    with lives of quiet desperation.
  • Others are brilliant
    successes who take great pleasure in venting their frustrations
    anonymously in order to provoke chaos and  discord among the weaker
    willed members.
  • Most of the people online are
    more interested in lurking than participating (notice the number of views
    greatly exceeds the number of posters for any given topic).  I
    suppose that they are either genuinely interested in learning something,
    or they are fight fans.  Maybe both.
  • Finally, there are a small
    number of participants who either want to learn, or who want to help
    others.  Sometimes these people fit into more than one category.

            
Please note that a favorite pass-time of the first two categories is discussing
who falls in which category.
Sometimes people suggest that I help people on this board because it is
in my enlightened self interest as a recruiter.  Who cares?  I never hide my identity or my
agenda, so my pro-industry bias is there for all to see.  I think that my
target audience is smart enough to keep my comments in context.

And no, I'm not saying that everybody on this board is smart.  Just the
ones I'm trying to reach.

troll's picture
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Joined: 2004-11-29

Great posts Jeff and Seeker!Why is this a great business?  Unlimited income potential and freedom to craft your business however you wish!!(AT least if you're independent!!)Seeker you comment that firms want to impose professional liability on us, yet maintain the same product pushing sales driven culture.  This is not true for all firms, certainly not of LPL in my experience.  I suspect you'll find little or no product pushing or other pressure from firms in the indy channel.  It just won't work in the current business model.That might not be the case in the wirehouse/regional/bank platforms.
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Seeker15's picture
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Joined: 2006-06-20

Jeff, I had no problem with your post at all, your agenda or this thread. It should be pointed out in the recruiting process you get paid by firms the way real estate agents generally get paid by property sellers. In both cases whose interest is most served?
Joe,
When they list producers internally at LPL do they not rank them by production? Do you think they do this at CPA, law or medical firms? What would you think of them if they did so?
There certainly might be a tinge of hypocrisy on those entities because you can soon figure out who the rain makers are in these organizations but it's all part of the "you are number" degradation in this industry that actually works against your image and the interests of financial service producers in a more special way. Think Danny De Vito in "Tin Men" if you want a bad image to be associated to.
I wouldn't get too comfortable about LPL, take a look at the other major "independents" and reconsider your claim. Quota's, restrictions and interference are the growing norm. You didn't address the "R" as in "risk" topic either. Are you more or less likely to be made a patsy today or five years ago if even a weak complaint is filed?
Next comes a swell of "it's the regulators fault" but guess who the regulators are in many cases on many topics? 
 
 

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