New Training Pay at EDJ

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UNDERMINDED's picture
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I've been meaning to post this for a few weeks and if for some stupid reason I already started this thread, forgive me.
 
Do you guys know what EDJ is paying it's new hires now?  This is a joke, I know we're under a wage freeze but this is CRAZY.
 
I spoke with a new hire the other day, his hourly wage is about .20 above MINIMUM WAGE until he goes full commission.
 
I called St Louis and they confirmed this.
 
wow. 

Mr.Blonde's picture
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UNDERMINDED wrote:I've been meaning to post this for a few weeks and if for some stupid reason I already started this thread, forgive me.
 
Do you guys know what EDJ is paying it's new hires now?  This is a joke, I know we're under a wage freeze but this is CRAZY.
 
I spoke with a new hire the other day, his hourly wage is about .20 above MINIMUM WAGE until he goes full commission.
 
I called St Louis and they confirmed this.
 
wow. 

That's pretty funny. I had a visiting vet once that before he joined Jones managed a MacDonald's. Guess he would be taking a demotion if he was joining now
 
Seriously, it will probably make people re-think getting into the business and using Jones as the HR department for the rest of the industry.

Curious1's picture
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Joined: 2009-09-15

ok - here is a silly question. When doing your minimum wage calculation are you taking it at 40 hours or at 60+ that a trainee/newbie might need to do in order to be successful?
 
Heck, how about we forget the math and you just tell us the new trainee wage? :)

Still@jones's picture
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Joined: 2009-03-22

minimum wage if you work 60 hours a week is: $26,390if they could legally pay you less, they would.

DeBolt's picture
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Joined: 2009-07-12

The trainee wage was based on previous employment wages and demographics. It is hourly until Eval/Grad (so newbs don't be afraid to book 60+ hours they will pay you for it). After Eval/Grad it is salary based on 40 hrs a week.
 

This was based on agreements made 2nd half of 2008 and may have changed. A Pharma sales guy called to negotiate and the person at HO said he maxed the pay plan out. I don't remember what it was but I think around 12-13 bucks an hour.

hotair1's picture
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Joined: 2009-03-12

didn't you jive turkeys all fail out of jones?  except for under that is.  you're probably the reason they made the change.  free loading failures.

UNDERMINDED's picture
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Joined: 2008-10-14

Here's the deal.  When I came through my hourly was something like $9.50/hr.  The new guy is getting $7.40/hr.  We made roughly the same amount of $$ before Jones.

When your studying for the 7 they only schedule you for 45 hours/week.  You can squeeze a couple hours of overtime in there but they're really cracking down on that stuff right now so the good ole days of logging 60 hours per week for study time is a thing of the past.  Now AFTER all of your exams and KYC they do switch you to 60 hours per week, but the hourly drops to minimum wage, which is what? Like $7.15-7.25 idk.
 
When I called HQ they also told me that negotiating the hourly wage up is a very rare thing these days.  It was very common a year or two ago but during this wage freeze they have much less wiggle room.
 
I know that training was never meant to pay the big bucks, but it makes me wonder how they will attract great candidates who are making big money in other industries with $7.45/hr.

SometimesNowhere's picture
Joined: 2008-12-22

Color me surprised. This is why we have a reputation for putting out second rate brokers. I frequently ask the people in my region when we do crap like this "would MSSB/RJ/SN" be doing this"? The answer is inevitably a resounding 'no'.
 
I am not saying that I want that culture entirely. I am saying that we continue to do things that make it difficult to take us seriously. I have a friend that would be an outstanding broker, but I can't really refer him to EDJ because there is no way he could expect to pay his mortgage here.

hotair1's picture
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Joined: 2009-03-12

Supply & Demand issue my friend
15% unemployment
 
Plenty of able  bodies to fill the chairs at cheap prices

UNDERMINDED's picture
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Joined: 2008-10-14

hotair1 wrote:
Supply & Demand issue my friend
15% unemployment
 
Plenty of able  bodies to fill the chairs at cheap prices
 
That's a very good point.
 
Just don't ever forget:
You get what you pay for.

Spaceman Spiff's picture
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Series 7 to E/G is a relatively short time frame to have to worry about paying your bills.  If you can't make it during that time frame with the low salary Jones is going to pay you to study, then maybe you should think about creating an emergency fund before you take the leap to Jones.  No matter where a newbie to the industry goes, if he had a $100K a year job before, he's going to take a paycut to get into the business. 

How much do you think that Jones should be paying those folks? 

SometimesNowhere's picture
Joined: 2008-12-22

Spaceman Spiff wrote:
Series 7 to E/G is a relatively short time frame to have to worry about paying your bills.  If you can't make it during that time frame with the low salary Jones is going to pay you to study, then maybe you should think about creating an emergency fund before you take the leap to Jones.  No matter where a newbie to the industry goes, if he had a $100K a year job before, he's going to take a paycut to get into the business. 

How much do you think that Jones should be paying those folks? 
 
I don't think that they need to pay them an equal salary to what they made previously, but a shade over minimum wage is ridiculous.
 
I think that Jones asks for a lot of sacrifice from a new person, and sometimes the reward is not worth the risk for the individual. If you were to set up the proposition in an honest way to a reasonable, professional person, most would look at the "opportunity" that we offer and scoff.
 
It is disingenuous to say that we are trying to attract "top talent" like that.

WarRoom's picture
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Joined: 2009-10-25

Spaceman Spiff wrote:

How much do you think that Jones should be paying those folks? 
 
Enough so you can build a business the right way and not force advisors to make decisions more about them than their clients.  Is 23-28k over one year enough to do that?

noggin's picture
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I believe that the quality of hires would improve at the salary level of 40-60K for the first year. The Gp's would never go along with it and thus it will never happen. If you did that type of salary and enabled the FA to build a book without being compelled to make dollars from it immediately, the firm, client and FA would all benefit.

B24's picture
B24
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The problem in this industry (and it's not just Jones) is that they present it like a job with a paycheck.  They SHOULD be presenting it like a new business.  Your lack of income is essentially your "investment".  That's how I looked at it.  New FA's have to understand that they are basically the equivalent of some company's pension liability.  A paycheck with no inward value associated with it.  Most firm's cannot afford to pay newbies huge money, because they hire so many.  If they would turn the model upside down and re-invent it somehow (I don't have the answer), they could keep far more people.
 
Let's also remember, hiring a 25-year old is different than hiring a 45 year old.  That 45 year-old might have had a $115K job.  The 25 year-old may have been making $35K.  And I think the answer lies somewhere in between, and possibly customizing the compensation approach.  For example, pay the 25 year-old 25K, and the 45 year old 75K.  But find a way to make them "make it".  The ultimate problem is too many newbies.  Part of it is the low barriers to entry in our field.  And part of it is taht not everyone is made for this business, period, end of story.  You could pay them 100K a year and they still fail.  What's the right answer?  Maybe paying higher recruiting wage but increasing the standards.  Maybe they should only hire people with definable talent.  Maybe they go after people with obvious networks (i.e. lawyers, CPA's, insurance agents, bank brokers, etc.).  I don't tknow the answer.  But they could probably hire a lot fewer people, pay them more, reduce the size of the recruiting/training departments, and have better talent that makes it, and avoid the FA revolving doors.

Curious1's picture
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Joined: 2009-09-15

Seems like you might be onto something noggin. I would love to make the leap and join Jones specifically but I am currently making too much to make that move. At 40-60 it would be a significant cut (75%) but I could make it work over the first year as I build a business. I think most successful professionals who are making in the 6 figures, would have to have something like that to even consider this.

SometimesNowhere's picture
Joined: 2008-12-22

B24 wrote:The problem in this industry (and it's not just Jones) is that they present it like a job with a paycheck.  They SHOULD be presenting it like a new business.  Your lack of income is essentially your "investment".  That's how I looked at it.  New FA's have to understand that they are basically the equivalent of some company's pension liability.  A paycheck with no inward value associated with it.  Most firm's cannot afford to pay newbies huge money, because they hire so many.  If they would turn the model upside down and re-invent it somehow (I don't have the answer), they could keep far more people.
 
 
I think you are exactly right. The problem is Jones doesn't (at least didn't with me or anyone else I know).

UNDERMINDED's picture
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I was offered $40,000 by a different firm before I decided on Jones.

Hey Kool-Aid's picture
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iceco1d wrote:ML will pay them up to $125K, I believe.
 
Didn't they go out of business or something????? 

B24's picture
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noggin wrote:I believe that the quality of hires would improve at the salary level of 40-60K for the first year. The Gp's would never go along with it and thus it will never happen. If you did that type of salary and enabled the FA to build a book without being compelled to make dollars from it immediately, the firm, client and FA would all benefit.
 
Agreed.  But they would need to make a firm committment to every FA making it.  Otherwise you sink a sh*tload into each FA.  But you're right...it would never work.  The more likely scenario is larger Goodknights, as this is ultimately how the game should be played (Jones' version of joining a team).  At most big indy firms/RIA's/big wirehouse teams, you have a few "rainmakers" and then many people that service them.  Not everyone is built to be a rainmaker, but many can become very good advisors.  Jones hires advisors, not rainmakers.
 
Ever notice at Jones how there are all kinds of successful FA's in areas where there is a long-time rainmaker?  It's called Goodknights.  When someone hands you a 25-30mm book, if you have your head on straight, you can't help but be successful.
The Vet gets a good incentive (increased bonuses, more LP, often more production), the GK newbie gets a book and "makes it", Jones gets off cheaply, and the clients are now being serviced.

UNDERMINDED's picture
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Hey Kool-Aid wrote:iceco1d wrote:ML will pay them up to $125K, I believe.
 
Didn't they go out of business or something????? 
hahahahahaha

OrlandoFA's picture
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Joined: 2009-12-03

New Training Pay depends on your zip code. High living expense the higher the pay. the pay for a major city is around $13. It doesn't seem like alot but the payout is 40% which is more then other firms and the salary last for the first two years.

Squash1's picture
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OrlandoFA wrote:New Training Pay depends on your zip code. High living expense the higher the pay. the pay for a major city is around $13. It doesn't seem like alot but the payout is 40% which is more then other firms and the salary last for the first two years.
 
You might want to check that info... Jones used to pay full one year, then decrease 20% each quarter second year..
 
So at $13*40hrs*52weeks=27040 year 1   vs wirehouse $50K
 
year 2
$13*40*13=6760
$10.40*40*13=5408
$7.8*40*13=4056
$2.6*40*13=1352
 
Total=17576
2 year total=44616 or $4K less than you made yr1 at a wire... Don't forget with the office(stamps, phone, other marketing)
 
 
 

B24's picture
B24
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Joined: 2008-07-08

I think you're both right.  The 40% payout on everything probably makes up for some of the reduced training pay.  Obviously it depends on your production.  And if you produce well enough, the nmilestone bonuses can be very big.  I hit almost all of them, and currently, it equates to $38,000 over the first 36 months.  Here's the deal...if yuo hit all your milestone bonuses, chances are you will be in the 50-60K range minimum.  If you produced just $50,000 in your first year, your total income would be in the mid 50's.  If you produced 75K, you would be close to 70K.  I don't think that's unreasonable.

chief123's picture
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Joined: 2008-10-28

I think wirehouses pay new guys 50% on fee accounts first 3 years...

B24's picture
B24
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Damn, that's pretty sweet.  THAT is incentive to build a fee business pretty quick. 

chief123's picture
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iceco1d wrote:Wait, wait, wait.Wirehouses pay a higher salary than EDJ, for a longer period of time (typically 3 years).  HOWEVER, I believe MOST of them don't pay you ANY commissions, unless your net payout would exceed your salary.  So if you are at a wire, getting a $50K salary, and produce $100K @ a 40% payout, you don't get paid SQUAT on your production.  Not all wires, but some.At EDJ, your salary is lower, BUT if you produce $100K @ 40%, you get paid $40K, plus whatever your salary is...Wait a second...Didn't most of the wires lower their grids last year?   Didn't they stop paying on HH under $100K for the most part?  Didn't they stop paying out on tickets under $100?  Not trying to start a war - I'm not at EDJ or a wire; but really, sometimes the EDJ guys need some extra ammo ;)

but you have to work out of your house.. weird

theironhorse's picture
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i don't see the big deal.  people should not be looking at an hourly rate to determine whether they want in this business anyway.  sure it is nice for the first few months or first year, but if you are debating between $8/hour or $12/hour when choosing your entry into our profession, move along and find something else.
i guess i figure anything they give is "gravy."  especially when you can go out and actually work hard and make whatever you want.

richchick's picture
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The compensation for the first year is based on location and previous job experience and pay. I live in a remote location and got $13/hour during training, and got overtime for more than 45 hours per week. I got an office with a lot of assets, so it wasn't hard to earn the milestone bonuses (extra 10K for year 1), PLUS an approximate 24K of salary for year one. In year 2 the salary goes away, so you have to gross an extra 5-6K every month to make up for that. I concur that you can pay someone 100K per year during their first year, and they could still wash. Jones offers a great opportunity, but if I were to do it again and have to start newnew, I wouldn't do it without 50K in savings to survive the first few years.

Squash1's picture
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Joined: 2008-11-19

richchick wrote:
The compensation for the first year is based on location and previous job experience and pay. I live in a remote location and got $13/hour during training, and got overtime for more than 45 hours per week. I got an office with a lot of assets, so it wasn't hard to earn the milestone bonuses (extra 10K for year 1), PLUS an approximate 24K of salary for year one. In year 2 the salary goes away, so you have to gross an extra 5-6K every month to make up for that. I concur that you can pay someone 100K per year during their first year, and they could still wash. Jones offers a great opportunity, but if I were to do it again and have to start newnew, I wouldn't do it without 50K in savings to survive the first few years.
 
Which is the whole reason that the higher salary helps the first year.......

Otane's picture
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Jones is doing the correct strategy. Most of the guys I see at my B/D are looking for a paycheck, but that is the fault of the industry.

You are asking people to become entrepreneurs right off the bat, and on average, that is not going to happen (unless they are ambitious). You are going to get people who want safety and a paycheck and do the minimum amount of work. If I were Jones, I would up the commissions and keep the pay low.

And you wonder why the illegal immigrants are cleaning up in this country.

B24's picture
B24
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Otane wrote:Jones is doing the correct strategy. Most of the guys I see at my B/D are looking for a paycheck, but that is the fault of the industry. You are asking people to become entrepreneurs right off the bat, and on average, that is not going to happen (unless they are ambitious). You are going to get people who want safety and a paycheck and do the minimum amount of work. If I were Jones, I would up the commissions and keep the pay low. And you wonder why the illegal immigrants are cleaning up in this country.
 
That's why they offer milestone bonuses and new account bonuses.  The new account bonuses are relatively unachievable on a consistent basis (unless you are opening SIMPLE plans), but the milestone bonuses are so easy, adn they can be up to $14K (net) per year.

Otane's picture
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B24 wrote: Otane wrote:Jones is doing the correct strategy. Most of the guys I see at my B/D are looking for a paycheck, but that is the fault of the industry. You are asking people to become entrepreneurs right off the bat, and on average, that is not going to happen (unless they are ambitious). You are going to get people who want safety and a paycheck and do the minimum amount of work. If I were Jones, I would up the commissions and keep the pay low. And you wonder why the illegal immigrants are cleaning up in this country.
 
That's why they offer milestone bonuses and new account bonuses.  The new account bonuses are relatively unachievable on a consistent basis (unless you are opening SIMPLE plans), but the milestone bonuses are so easy, adn they can be up to $14K (net) per year.

I have seen it with FA's who have been in the industry for decades. They lose the desire to increase their books and just coast. Their choice, but if I were the Regional head I would replace them.

I don't think FA's understand how well they have it. Starting in this business is the same as starting any other business...much easier from what I see since I am or was a business owner. The point is that the back end leak is almost nonexistent. Try any other business, and you see why people are always hustling to replace the customers they have lost.

razorbuzz's picture
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::Edited::A little pain now will be worth the future rewards.

Spaceman Spiff's picture
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With a little work, you could hit $65K again this year.  I think the firm average is close to $55K.  Surely you can work a little harder than average and make the extra 20%.  Actually add another 10% into that to account for expenses like postage and toner cartridges.  Still, I think $65K is doable.   

B24's picture
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RB,
 
Not sure you have lived anywhere else, but I can't think of a locale in Florida that is considered on the higher end nationally.  The West coast and Northeast are MUCH more expensive (taxes, housing, etc.).
 
As Spiff said, with some honest hard work, 55K should be simple.  65K is very do-able.  75K first year would be a stretch (if starting from scratch).

razorbuzz's picture
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--Content removed--

noggin's picture
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I am figuring if you got the Partners or Regional Leader Award for 90,000 Gross 1st year and got 14,000 in milestones that would give you about 50,000. If you add the 24,000 in salary that puts you about 75,000. It can be done but that's motoring along pretty well.....
The big concern would be year two. I did over 60K my first year without milestone bonuses and was able to replace the loss of the salary and stay steady 2nd year. The first year is not the problem with the milestone bonuses and salary you will be good, think about the 2nd year....

B24's picture
B24
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Yeah, I take that back.  Naples is expensive.

B24's picture
B24
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noggin wrote:I am figuring if you got the Partners or Regional Leader Award for 90,000 Gross 1st year and got 14,000 in milestones that would give you about 50,000. To do 65,000 you would have to do on the lines of 127,500 in gross for 1st year. That's a pretty good pull to average 10K in the first year. It can be done but that's motoring along pretty well.....
 
You have to remember the salary as well.  I did 65K net (including salary) my first year and I wasn't crushing it.  The second year is tougher, since the salary goes away, so you have to makeup a lot of gross to get there.  If you are simply meeting expectations, you should be able to do 55K without exceptional effort.  The bonuses are a big plus, so you really need to hit those.  I think I got maybe 1 new account bonus.

razorbuzz's picture
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B24 -  Glad to hear I'll be able to hit numbers without crushing it.  I plan on getting out of the gate with a bang, but always good to know even if I don't do as well as I hope I'll still be doing OK.I've read around the forums for suggestions on the S7 & 66 - I'm confident I'll do well. I've been studying already and my official start date is still a month away.  Here's hoping.

Spaceman Spiff's picture
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The S7 & 66 are just like the rest of the training at Jones.  Just follow the program, don't try to cut corners, and you'll be fine.  I haven't heard the number recently, but we used to run in the 90% pass rate range.  The guys who I heard failed were usually either taking the test open book, or just plain screwing around.  Once in a while you'd have one that got  a 67% or 68% and they were really working at it.  Just make sure you're not one of those.
 
If you want to start studying something now that will have some impact on the actual exam, find the options and municipal bond sections.  Used to be about 40-50% of the test was on those two sections. 

chief123's picture
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razorbuzz wrote:B24:  I'm in Naples, FL.
 
Probably don't want to give that info out.

hotair1's picture
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chief123 wrote:razorbuzz wrote:B24:  I'm in Naples, FL.
 
Probably don't want to give that info out.
 
Because tool bags like Chief will try and figure out who you are.

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