How do you play the wholesale rep game??

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BullBroker's picture
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Been here only 3 days and already I have gone on 2 wholesaler lunches.  Do you go to these and listen to the wholesaler pitch his fund for a free lunch?  The reason I am asking is I have listened to two sides of this "game" and wondering what most reps think of this.  All the other newbies in the office say yea, it's a free lunch I can order the steak and lobster.  Then the guys who have been at the firm forever don't go to these lunches.  So, I ask them why don't you guys take advantage of the free lunch.  They tell me "son, in this business you don't want to go to lunch with someone who is selling you something, you want to go with someone you are selling to".  So what do you do when the wholesaler comes a knocking??

Yoda's picture
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Enjoy free lunches, before you leave.

anonymous's picture
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I hope that your question is a joke.  Are you seriously trying to decide whether to take advice from other newbies or from firm veterans?
I'm willing to meet with just about anybody who promises to leave my office before 8:00 a.m.  Otherwise, they better be buying something from me.

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anonymous wrote:
I'm willing to meet with just about anybody who promises to leave my office before 8:00 a.m.  Otherwise, they better be buying something from me.I agree with this completely.  The only time I go to lunch with a wholesaler, it is if it is for a product I already use and to discuss any product changes etc.           

silouette's picture
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Wait until you get established before you enjoy wasting your time. Good wholesalers can give perspective when you are in a position to need it.

DMAN's picture
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I have been at my firm for a few months. Most wholsalers want to tell you how great their product is. However there are some who will help you with coaching and mentoring. Who cares about the free lunch. I want to talk to wholsalers who care about making me a better advisor not about how great their products are. I got this idea from Nick Murray's book. He said there are some wholesalers who know how to sell. Get them to help you with your selling or prospecting skills. Especially with the lack of formal sales training at the wirhouses. Who do the new guys have to teach them how to sell? I think this is where the wholesalers come in. However I think probably a small percentage of wholesalers know how to sell. They know how to present product info to us but they dont necessarily know how to sell in our shoes. I think the ones who do are invaluable to a new guy. I think I have met with 7 wholesalers in the time I have been at my firm only one has offered to coach me and taught me something about selling. The good wholesalers are few and far between but I am trying to identify those that can make me a better salesperson.

BullBroker's picture
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anonymous wrote:
I hope that your question is a joke.  Are you seriously trying to decide whether to take advice from other newbies or from firm veterans?
No, I am not trying to decide I was simply asking what do you do when the wholesaler comes to take you to lunch.  I have already figured out that I have to take time out of my day to eat lunch anyway.  Right now I don't have that much money coming in and don't know a lot about the funds.  So, why not take a free lunch and learn a little bit about the different funds?  I am not saying "oh I am blowing off a client meeting because the American Funds rep is taking everyone to Red Lobster, whata you guys think".  I am not (anonymous) I mean ignorant.

BullBroker's picture
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Thanks, DMAN that was the constructive answer I was looking for.  See Anonymous, there are people who know something about this business and are not complete ignorant asses!

troll's picture
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Lunch with a client or prospect is a worthwhile use of an hour.   Lunch with a wholesaler is generally a waste of an hour, although when you're a rookie you might pick up a few interesting and useful bits of information.It takes you 20-30 minutes max to grab lunch at your desk  and catch up on the news or read a good self improvement books, and you can feed your mind.  Probably takes about the same amount of time to grab lunch with an office friend at a neighborhood quick spot.Quite frankly I've gotten to the point where I have pretty much sworn off wholesaler meetings almost completely.  Between the long lunch, the literature they foist on you, and the follow up phone calls from the internal it's a complete waste of time.  I'd rather work hard and then squeeze in time for 9 holes of golf or at least go to the range and hit a couple of buckets.

AllREIT's picture
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joedabrkr wrote:Lunch with a client or prospect is a worthwhile use of
an hour.   Lunch with a wholesaler is generally a waste of an
hour, although when you're a rookie you might pick up a few interesting
and useful bits of information.

It really depends as well. Some wholesales have something to offer in
terms of training, sales ideas and product knowledge/perspective. Others are just a waste of time with free food.

Don't be a platelicker.

As a rookie I would attend these, as long they were for
different products or things I didn't know about/wanted new
perspectives on.. Hearing about American Funds for the fifth time is a
waste. 

A far better use of your time is to read your firms internal
research/external research and follow up on stocks/strategy/news etc.
One thing I do though is listen in to alot of fund manager conference
calls. These people tend to be smart, and worth listening to for idea's/perspectives

anonymous's picture
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Joined: 2005-09-29

Bullbroker, you may be too thin skinned for this business if you think that my comment made me an ignorant ass.  Veterans in the business are veterans for a reason.  Listen to them!
I have already figured out that I have to take time out of my day to eat lunch anyway.
You are 100% wrong.  You better start having a business owner's mentality instead of an employee's mentality.    Could you imagine the 7-11 owner closing his store to take a lunch break?  There are so many potential clients who can only meet you at lunch.  You should have an appointment every day at 12:00.  If you can't afford lunches, these don't have to be lunch appointments.  Brown bag it and snack during the day or if you are going to eat lunch, it only takes 5 minutes to eat your sandwich, apple, 2 cookies, and juice box.
Imagine a retail store closing during the Christmas rush because the owner wants to take inventory at 12:00.  That is what you are doing every time that you do something during the day other than see clients or fight to see them.

troll's picture
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AllREIT wrote:joedabrkr wrote:Lunch with a client or prospect is a worthwhile use of
an hour.   Lunch with a wholesaler is generally a waste of an
hour, although when you're a rookie you might pick up a few interesting
and useful bits of information.

It really depends as well. Some wholesales have something to offer in
terms of training, sales ideas and product knowledge/perspective. Others are just a waste of time with free food.

As you start to acheive any level of success in the business the above becomes a bigger and bigger issue.  Why?  Because, in my cynical opinion, if you attend 10 wholesaler lunches you might pick up ONE useful idea, maybe two in a good week.  So if you figure your goal is to make $200k for the year and work about 2000 hours a year, that free slice of pizza and coke that you just had in the conference room probably cost you about $100 bucks or more?Why?  $200,000 year target earnings divided by 2000 hours/year comes to a rate of $100 hour.You spend 40 minutes at the meeting in the conference room listening to this guy give you some sham training for 10 minutes(that's the hook) and then 30 minutes hawking his funds at you.  Then he drops by to visit you individually as he walks through the office after the meeting...."just to get acquainted"-that's another 10 minutes.  Then, his wholesaler calls you the following week to "follow up" with another idea.  There you go.  One hour of your time wasted, not to mention the time you lose getting refocussed after the interruptions.  That's your hundred dollar slice of pizza.If you do these lunches offsite the cost SKYROCKETS if you think of the additional time.Skip the meetings when you can, keep working hard, and soon you'll have enough money to buy yourself a nice lunch whenever you want with whomever you want.Just my two cents....

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BullBroker wrote:
. . . the American Funds rep is taking everyone to Red Lobster . . .

Is that for his million dollar producers, or is everyone allowed to go?  My experience is that the only person tighter with money than my clients that grew up dirt poor in the 30's is an American Funds wholesaler.

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anonymous wrote:
Bullbroker, you may be too thin skinned for this business if you think that my comment made me an ignorant ass.  Veterans in the business are veterans for a reason.  Listen to them!
I have already figured out that I have to take time out of my day to eat lunch anyway.
You are 100% wrong.  You better start having a business owner's mentality instead of an employee's mentality.    Could you imagine the 7-11 owner closing his store to take a lunch break?  There are so many potential clients who can only meet you at lunch.  You should have an appointment every day at 12:00.  If you can't afford lunches, these don't have to be lunch appointments.  Brown bag it and snack during the day or if you are going to eat lunch, it only takes 5 minutes to eat your sandwich, apple, 2 cookies, and juice box.
Imagine a retail store closing during the Christmas rush because the owner wants to take inventory at 12:00.  That is what you are doing every time that you do something during the day other than see clients or fight to see them.

Excellent post Anonymous. I don't know any successful people who go out to lunch. Obviously if it is with a prospect that is a different story. I think 5 minutes with a brown bag is more than enough time have lunch.

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EDJ4now wrote:
BullBroker wrote:
. . . the American Funds rep is taking everyone to Red Lobster . . .

Is that for his million dollar producers, or is everyone allowed to go?  My experience is that the only person tighter with money than my clients that grew up dirt poor in the 30's is an American Funds wholesaler.

I think our American Funds guy must own stock in IHOP, that's the ONLY place he has ever taken me. 

AllREIT's picture
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now_indy wrote:I think our American Funds guy must own stock in IHOP, that's the ONLY place he has ever taken me. 

If you want to sell me on American Funds, you'd better be taking me somewhere much nicer than IHOP.

That said, I do like IHOP's crepe's with orange marmalade.

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I think you can learn quite a bit from the wholesalers.  And you can build relationships.  When you need support (ie: $$$) for seminars etc, that is where you can go.
They come into our office and it is 45 mins. out of my day once a week.  For me it is OK.
And I love to ask the annuity sales men the tough questions they can't answer (ie: explain the tax treatment at death with an annuity vs. mutual funds)

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anonymous wrote:
I hope that your question is a joke.  Are you seriously trying to decide whether to take advice from other newbies or from firm veterans?
I'm willing to meet with just about anybody who promises to leave my office before 8:00 a.m.  Otherwise, they better be buying something from me.
  
   

troll's picture
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vbrainy wrote:I think you can learn quite a bit from the wholesalers.  And you can build relationships.  When you need support (ie: $$$) for seminars etc, that is where you can go.
They come into our office and it is 45 mins. out of my day once a week.  For me it is OK.
And I love to ask the annuity sales men the tough questions they can't answer (ie: explain the tax treatment at death with an annuity vs. mutual funds)If you think you can learn a lot from WHOLESALERS(at least most of them), then you REALLY have a lot to learn brother!When you need "support" you don't need to have a relationship with them, you just need to either have a track record of giving them business or convince them that it's in the near future.If you feel you can afford to waste nearly an hour of your work week with a whoresaler on a regular basis, then you have too much time on your hands.I'm not saying that you have to be rude to them, just don't waste your time with them.Not meaning to dis ya Vbrainy, just calling 'em like I see 'em.

AllREIT's picture
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vbrainy wrote:And I love to ask the annuity sales men the tough
questions they can't answer (ie: explain the tax treatment at death
with an annuity vs. mutual funds)

The annuity sales people are good to learn from since the scare tactics
used to push annuities can also be used to promote more sound
investment schemes.

For example, I use elements of the Prudential Retirement Red Zone pitch
to get people to tighten up thier portfolio's around age 55 or so.

In general though, wholesalers are a waste of time, since their job is
to sell you on funds. This is useless unless you are selling funds
which you are not doing while meeting with wholesalers.

troll's picture
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AllREIT wrote:vbrainy wrote:And I love to ask the annuity sales men the tough questions they can't answer (ie: explain the tax treatment at death with an annuity vs. mutual funds)The annuity sales people are good to learn from since the scare tactics used to push annuities can also be used to promote more sound investment schemes.For example, I use elements of the Prudential Retirement Red Zone pitch to get people to tighten up thier portfolio's around age 55 or so. In general though, wholesalers are a waste of time, since their job is to sell you on funds. This is useless unless you are selling funds which you are not doing while meeting with wholesalers.
People make financial decisions with two emotions, fear and greed. That's what you have to sell to. Greed tactics work pretty well, too, but fear is stronger than greed.
I hope you rookies realize that I just gave away the keys to the treasury.

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anonymous wrote:
You are 100% wrong.  You better start having a business owner's mentality instead of an employee's mentality.   

Anonymous it really amazes me that you are in this business.  You really sound like the type of advisor that has his 75 year old and 35 year old clients in identical portfolios.  As I said in my original post I am a rookie and don't have any clients yet.  I am in pre-production and am not allowed to meet or obtain clients for at least 30 days.  So, my situation is different from most of you. 
Either you have no reading comprehension skills, or you really are the advisor who thinks everyone is the same and sticks them all in the same investments.  Being in the situation that I am in I really could use a free meal and some insight to these different funds.  I am spending my pre-production time learning products and selling skills so why not learn about the different funds??  If I was in a situation where I was in production and needing to get to 50 prospects a day I would agree with you that the wholesaler lunch would be a waste of my time.  You really need to learn to listen/read and look at other peoples situation before you blurt out your 2 cents.  Isn't that what a financial advisors role is??  Oh, and don't try and judge me on the thickness of my skin you have no clue what I have gone through to get to this point. 
 

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BullBroker wrote:anonymous wrote:
You are 100% wrong.  You better start having a business owner's mentality instead of an employee's mentality.   

Anonymous it really amazes me that you are in this business.  You really sound like the type of advisor that has his 75 year old and 35 year old clients in identical portfolios.  As I said in my original post I am a rookie and don't have any clients yet.  I am in pre-production and am not allowed to meet or obtain clients for at least 30 days.  So, my situation is different from most of you. 
Either you have no reading comprehension skills, or you really are the advisor who thinks everyone is the same and sticks them all in the same investments.  Being in the situation that I am in I really could use a free meal and some insight to these different funds.  I am spending my pre-production time learning products and selling skills so why not learn about the different funds??  If I was in a situation where I was in production and needing to get to 50 prospects a day I would agree with you that the wholesaler lunch would be a waste of my time.  You really need to learn to listen/read and look at other peoples situation before you blurt out your 2 cents.  Isn't that what a financial advisors role is??  Oh, and don't try and judge me on the thickness of my skin you have no clue what I have gone through to get to this point. 
 

If you're not a broker, why do you call yourself one?

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BullBroker wrote:As I said in my original post I am a rookie and don't
have any clients yet.  I am in pre-production and am not allowed
to meet or obtain clients for at least 30 days.  So, my situation
is different from most of you.

That was not obvious from your original post. On the whole, the general
gist of this thread still stands; wholesalers are low value. If you
want to see what all the whole salers can offer you as training, get
Tony Fadool's book. He's the chief sales coach for Federated.

If I had to pick one thing to do during training, it would be to take a
Dale Carnegie course. I'd also get a copy of spin selling/spin selling
work book and work on developing my questioning process so it was very
natural.

rightway's picture
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Tony Fadool is the funniest MFer I have ever met.  I have about 20
of his quotes in my bag all the time.  Like when he orders a
drink..."Kettle one on the rocks, extra kettle One and easy on the
rocks...you got that? Good!" (as he adjusts his tie like Rodney
Dangerfield).  Does anyone remember the video they made abotu 10
yaears ago where he ahd the 1970's afro?

I have played golf with him a few times and OH MY GOD!!! ON THE TEE
BOX??!!  I will never forget we were playing at Oakmont one year
and he asked the caddy on the green to pick up his ball and drop it in
the hole because  "moses spoke to him...and he preferred not to go
to Hell..the broker can have the game...but really...moses gave it up."
Anyone else hung out with him? I did not know he had a book, but I
willl be looking for it tomorrow!

AllREIT's picture
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rightway wrote:
Anyone else hung out with him? I did not know he had a book, but I
willl be looking for it tomorrow!

Here's the link to his book (on Amazon.com)

The Grass is Always Greener When You Water It

It's pretty light, but yet if you think and apply the idea's, you'll
get a good amount out of it. I'd sure like to meet the author in
person.

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rightway wrote:Tony Fadool is the funniest MFer I have ever met.  I have about 20 of his quotes in my bag all the time.  Like when he orders a drink..."Kettle one on the rocks, extra kettle One and easy on the rocks...you got that? Good!" (as he adjusts his tie like Rodney Dangerfield).  Does anyone remember the video they made abotu 10 yaears ago where he ahd the 1970's afro?I have played golf with him a few times and OH MY GOD!!! ON THE TEE BOX??!!  I will never forget we were playing at Oakmont one year and he asked the caddy on the green to pick up his ball and drop it in the hole because  "moses spoke to him...and he preferred not to go to Hell..the broker can have the game...but really...moses gave it up." Anyone else hung out with him? I did not know he had a book, but I willl be looking for it tomorrow!
I've hung out with him. We went up on the space shuttle together after playing 36 at Oakmont.

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Cool Amazon link. If you just scan the table of contents there and follow your intuition, you have plenty to work on.
Wow, Bobby, no wonder you seem so relaxed and have so much perspective.

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rightway wrote:Tony Fadool is the funniest MFer I have ever met.  I have about 20 of his quotes in my bag all the time.  Like when he orders a drink..."Kettle one on the rocks, extra kettle One and easy on the rocks...you got that? Good!" (as he adjusts his tie like Rodney Dangerfield).  Does anyone remember the video they made abotu 10 yaears ago where he ahd the 1970's afro?I have played golf with him a few times and OH MY GOD!!! ON THE TEE BOX??!!  I will never forget we were playing at Oakmont one year and he asked the caddy on the green to pick up his ball and drop it in the hole because  "moses spoke to him...and he preferred not to go to Hell..the broker can have the game...but really...moses gave it up." Anyone else hung out with him? I did not know he had a book, but I willl be looking for it tomorrow!
Sounds a lot like Tom Bartow. 
Only not "give you nightmares" scary.

BullBroker's picture
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Bobby Hull wrote:

If you're not a broker, why do you call yourself one?

Well I am fully licensed and am employeed as a FA for one of the largest "broker"age firms in the world, what would you have me call myself???  Oh, and I do have clients they are just parked under another FA's number til I get through assesments. 

anonymous's picture
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Hey, BullBroker, I think that the proper title for yourself at this point is "secretary".
At sounds like you would just prefer for us to tell you what you want to hear.  "It's definitely a worthwhile use of time to go to lunch with wholesalers...especially if they take you someplace expensive.   Clients don't have time to meet with you during lunch.  The older brokers in your office don't have a clue.  They would have more clients if they'd spend more time with wholesalers."

troll's picture
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Look if you're not even in production yet maybe you can pick up a few ideas and learn a few new concepts.  Having said that:1.)  Make sure that the wholesaler understands where you are at in your career.  You don't want to burn prospective sources of seminar support by having them spend their budget on taking you out for an expensive lunch(es) and them have them ticked off when they find out you're not in a position to give them any love in return.2.)  Learn what you can, but understand that once you get in production you need to keep your business simple and focus on a few ideas and themes because you will be busy raising assets.3.)  Don't get used to it.  Once you are in production you really are wasting your time if you go out and meet over a meal with more than one wholesaler a month.  Trust me on this.

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joedabrkr wrote:Look if you're not even in production yet maybe you
can pick up a few ideas and learn a few new concepts.  Having said that:1.) 
Make sure that the wholesaler understands where you are at in your
career.  You don't want to burn prospective sources of seminar
support by having them spend their budget on taking you out for an
expensive lunch(es) and them have them ticked off when they find out
you're not in a position to give them any love in return.2.) 
Learn what you can, but understand that once you get in production you
need to keep your business simple and focus on a few ideas and themes
because you will be busy raising assets.3.)  Don't get
used to it.  Once you are in production you really are wasting
your time if you go out and meet over a meal with more than one
wholesaler a month.  Trust me on this.

At the risk of continuing this silly topic. Here's a strike list.

1) Attend a muni fund presentation. You want to really develop your pitch on munibonds.
2) Attend prudential's retirement red zone presentation.
3) Learn to give an asset allocation talk cold. And I do mean cold.
3.5) Attend a target date presentation.
4) Read your firms macro outlook and learn to how to be topical about it. You may learn something.
5) Same thing with fund conference calls. These people are mostly smart and you should learn from them.

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Wow, Joe and AllReit productive comments I am impressed.  Anonymous just continue being the piker that we all now know you are.  The whole, "let's make the newbies feel like complete idiots for asking questions and trying to learn the biz" thing is getting really old.  I realize we do ask some stupid questions, but we are new and at one time I am willing to bet you were new too.  If you are not willing to contribute to the success of this industry keep your post to yourself.  Registered Rep needs to add a category to this forum called "Old and Useless" just so anonymous can post all he wants. 

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BullBroker wrote:Wow, Joe and AllReit productive comments I am impressed.  Anonymous just continue being the piker that we all now know you are.  The whole, "let's make the newbies feel like complete idiots for asking questions and trying to learn the biz" thing is getting really old.  I realize we do ask some stupid questions, but we are new and at one time I am willing to bet you were new too.  If you are not willing to contribute to the success of this industry keep your post to yourself.  Registered Rep needs to add a category to this forum called "Old and Useless" just so anonymous can post all he wants.  Yes we've all asked stupid questions in our days.  But many of us have a low tolerance for newbs with a crappy attitude, and whiners who complain when they don't get the answer they wanted.  Didn't you say you weren't even in production yet?We don't need to try to make you sound like an idiot; you do a fine job of that on your own most of the time you post.How about if instead they add a thread just for YOU called: "New and Knows it ALL"?Good luck.

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joedabrkr wrote:
How about if instead they add a thread just for YOU called: "New and Knows it ALL"?For you we'll add a thread called, "I have no friends and that's why I insult people on Registered Rep all day" or "I have a small penis."

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I realize we do ask some stupid questions, but we are new and at one time I am willing to bet you were new too. 
The difference is that when I was young and stupid, I was smart enough to listen to the veterans in the office instead of fellow newbys.  I'm sorry that you have trouble hearing things that you don't want to hear.  It does not bode well for your future in this business.

troll's picture
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Yes, there is latitude that we should give new guys in the business.<?:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" />
BUT!
1. If you are new, do not waste time on website forums! We were all new once and the fact is, we worked ourselves stupid to get a grub stake in this business. Therefore, when we see some rookie in here, we feel like the best advice we can give is "Get back to work!" That new guy interpret that as "Go away kid, you stink of bubble gum and lollipops!" is their personal problem.
2. There is new and there is "I fell off the turnip truck last night!" new. There are questions about the industry that are specific to the industry and there are questions that are basic human intelligence questions. "How should I go about pitching my money managers to the local hospital foundation?" is a specific industry question. "Whom should I believe, the guys in my office that have made it or the young guys who haven't quite made it yet?" is a mouth breather question.
Should you go out to wholesaler lunches? Yes and no. Go sometimes and don't go most times. To look at it as the last meal I might have in a nice restaurant is a defeatist attitude which will kill you faster than the flesh eating virus! If you believe in yourself so little that you can't even make up your mind in this area... why should a client listen to your advice?
Believe me, you will spend plenty of time pondering that unfathomable anyway, and you really don't want to feed that insecurity by doing things that cripple your performance.  This isn't about being a newgro in this business; this is something that you should already know about being a grownup.
I think that Anonymous was giving you quality advice, and you should be thanking him for the spanking he is giving you! "Thank you sir, can I have another!"
 

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Whomitmayconcer wrote:
2. There is new and there is "I fell off the turnip truck last night!" new. Classic!

BullBroker's picture
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For all of you who have yet to understand the concept of reading comprehension I will say it for the last time then I am done with this topic.  My original question was "What do you do when the wholesaler comes to take you to lunch?"  I NEVER asked "do I listen to the new guys or the vets?"  It is laughably ironic that you insinuate that I am an idiot when you obviously didn't comprehend the original question.  I didn't ask for advice on the subject or for comments on my intelligence.  I asked a very simple question about what you do, and because of the quality of people that responded it turned into a bash session on newbies.  I will leave it at that because obviously everyone on this post is a certified genius and has made ka-billions in this industry. 

troll's picture
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BullBroker wrote:Thanks, DMAN that was the constructive answer I was looking for.  See Anonymous, there are people who know something about this business and are not complete ignorant asses!No-see above here is one example where you copped a serious attitude when you got an answer you didn't want to hear.Don't ask the question if you don't want a real answer, newby.

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Nole32303 wrote: joedabrkr wrote: How about if instead they add a thread just for YOU called: "New and Knows it ALL"?For you we'll add a thread called, "I have no friends and that's why I insult people on Registered Rep all day" or "I have a small penis."

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Joined: 2007-03-13

I think that Anonymous was giving you quality advice, and you should be thanking him for the spanking he is giving you! "Thank you sir, can I have another!"
<?:NAMESPACE PREFIX = O />My guess is you're the one who is hankering for a good spanking. Jane Fonda all dressed up as Barbarella. Or for that matter, check out Ballywood.
 

troll's picture
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Joined: 2004-11-29

ZZZZZZZZZ......

silouette's picture
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Joined: 2007-03-13

Whoa, nice comeback.

whitewlfz's picture
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Joined: 2006-12-23

vbrainy wrote:
I think you can learn quite a bit from the wholesalers.  And you can build relationships.  When you need support (ie: $$$) for seminars etc, that is where you can go.
They come into our office and it is 45 mins. out of my day once a week.  For me it is OK.
And I love to ask the annuity sales men the tough questions they can't answer (ie: explain the tax treatment at death with an annuity vs. mutual funds) Just so you know they can have a step up in cost basis.. I will get you the IRS code if you are ineterested..

troll's picture
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Joined: 2004-11-29

whitewlfz wrote:vbrainy wrote:
I think you can learn quite a bit from the wholesalers.  And you can build relationships.  When you need support (ie: $$$) for seminars etc, that is where you can go.
They come into our office and it is 45 mins. out of my day once a week.  For me it is OK.
And I love to ask the annuity sales men the tough questions they can't answer (ie: explain the tax treatment at death with an annuity vs. mutual funds) Just so you know they can have a step up in cost basis.. I will get you the IRS code if you are ineterested..

vbrainy is a retard. i've never met a wholesaler who couldn't answer that question.

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