Do I HAVE to knock on doors?

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LeaseNoMore's picture
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If I come to Mr Jones with a large database of former customers and prospects from a prior business (enough to make warm and cool calls for several years), will they still INSIST that I go trick-or-treating for investments in the neighborhood?

inlandTX's picture
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Ooo, with that attitude, you'd best look elsewhere. I've been at Jones for more than a year now, and have seen lots of roadkill along the way for guys who thought they could "out-think" the Jones system. LOTS of them.

anonymous's picture
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LeaseNoMore, at any firm in which you are an employee, you will have to do it their way in the very beginning.  However, once you get started, they won't care what you do as long as you are producing. 
 
How do you have enough names to make calls for several years?  If you need someone to have $100,000 to make a decent prospect, how many names of people do you have that fit that criteria.  Keep in mind that if you are calling for that, you will probably want to make 200 dials a day +. 

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If you already have a database large enough that you think that can succeed with them alone why even go to Jones?  Go independent and triple your payout.    You're gonna do it in 3 years anyhow so why not save the time right from the start?

voltmoie's picture
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Baldy is right. I'd join an insurance firm if I had a large database of people to call on. Think it would be hard to go Indy from day one with no experience.

Plus, if you already think Dking is beneath you why join a firm that prides itself on it? Grow up.

millionairemind's picture
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LeaseNoMore wrote: If I come to Mr Jones with a large database of former customers and prospects from a prior business (enough to make warm and cool calls for several years), will they still INSIST that I go trick-or-treating for investments in the neighborhood? trick-or-treating for investors cant believe I dint think of it, but anyway I talked to a jones recruiter once they said you dint have to door knock. However cant always believe a recruiter.

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voltmoie wrote:Baldy is right. I'd join an insurance firm if I had a large database of people to call on. Think it would be hard to go Indy from day one with no experience.

Plus, if you already think Dking is beneath you why join a firm that prides itself on it? Grow up.I must say volt is right.  When I was going to work for EDJ, I forced myself to accept the "Jones Recipe" and not try to out-think it.  Sure, there are a million ways to sell, but all the resources you have are designed to support a specific methodology.Selling is hard enough... have you read the forums?  I think you will make it even harder when you are trying to out-think the company... just added, unnecessary stress. If you think the company's methods are dumb, you won't be a happy employee.  Unhappiness leads to resentment.  Jones has a very strong culture.  If you start with a chip on your shoulder, I doubt you will be successful there.  I'm not saying you will fail... I'm saying you will probably quit before that happens because you don't like people forcing you to do things you don't want to do.I wouldn't say it's an better at a wire. I think the difference (someone correct me if I'm wrong), is that everything is more manager driven. My first manager liked my business plan and was very supportive.  My new manager is the complete opposite.  If I don't adapt (at least partially), my life will become difficult.Of course, this only applies to new guys.  The big producers (at any firm) can basically do what they want.  Until you are bringing money into the firm, expect to be told what to do.

LeaseNoMore's picture
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Joined: 2009-10-23

Wow... what a great resource.  I posted a question... ran up to visit my daughter at college... then came home to find all kinds of valuable responses (well... almost all of them).
 
Through my previous business I have accumulated a database containing thousands of businesses, including those I have done business with and lots of prospects that at least know me.
 
To me it would make more sense to leverage those warm/cool relationships instead of the ice cold process of knocking on doors.  Of course, I never said I wouldn't do it... just wondering if they insist, even if it isn't the best use of my time.  
 
Maybe a little of both (or a LOT of both) will be the answer.

deekay's picture
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LeaseNoMore wrote:If I come to Mr Jones with a large database of former customers and prospects from a prior business (enough to make warm and cool calls for several years), will they still INSIST that I go trick-or-treating for investments in the neighborhood?
 
If that's the case, you won't have to work for EDJ.  However, the list is only as good as you are with selling whatver it is you want to sell.  But hey, EDJ has only been doing face-to-face prospecting since its inception.  So whatever prospecting methods you have MUST be much better than what you've been doing.  Good luck.

LeaseNoMore's picture
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Joined: 2009-10-23

Uhhh... Isn't this the rookies & trainees area?   Seems logical that this would be the place to ask questions of the vets, with the hope of getting honest, yet respectful responses.  If we already knew everything like you do, we wouldn't be here.  So I ask you, oh wise one... Why the hostile response to a newbie feeling his way into a new world?

deekay's picture
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LeaseNoMore wrote:Uhhh... Isn't this the rookies & trainees area?   Seems logical that this would be the place to ask questions of the vets, with the hope of getting honest, yet respectful responses.  If we already knew everything like you do, we wouldn't be here.  So I ask you, oh wise one... Why the hostile response to a newbie feeling his way into a new world?
 
If you have 1000 warm prospects, I'm not sure if you need to door knock.  You'll fall ass-backwards into sales and make a nice living.  Ultimately, it won't be what you expect it to be.  If you have 100 warm prospects and don't door knock, you'll fail guaranteed, unless you get a lot of referrals. 
 
I wouldn't suggest going indie right out the gate, because there is a lot to be said about having a mentor to show you how to do things right and how NOT to do things.  Ultimately, if you do no cold prospecting (walking or calling), it will be very difficult to succeed, regardless of the size of your natural market.  EDJ has a formula that has worked for decades, and may not be one that you should dismiss before you take a job with them.

inlandTX's picture
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I didn't mean to be "disrespectful"either, but if you really don't want to doorknock, then just find a different firm. All of Jones' training will be geared toward making first (and many subsequent) contacts face-to-face. If you don't believe in the premise, you won't get a thing out of the training anyway. Jones is not going to teach you how to cold-call. Let a wirehouse teach you a phone-only business model.

LeaseNoMore's picture
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Thanks deekay & inland...  This is an odd situation I find myself in (owner of a moderately successful business forced to make a career change due to the tanking of an entire industry).
 
So here I am...  with Jones, MSSB, and NYL as options.  Each has some things I like and some things I don't...
 
Jones- independence, ability to help the 'less than wealthy', etc., but apparently with the reputation of being minor league (I didn't really know that until I started reading this forum), pushing only certain basic products, and yes- door knocking.
 
MSSB- power of being the big boy in the neighborhood, bigger salary, more commercial products to offer (good for my contacts), but in an 'under the manager's thumb' environment, only looking for people with sustantial money to invest, etc
 
NYL- make $$ sooner selling insurance, can sell investments too, lots of flexibility, but they are focused on insurance and, I am probably wrong, but it seems that extracting ins premiums in this economy would be less likely to happen than getting somebody to let me help them fix their battered investment portfolio.  I have NOTHING against insurance salespeople, but I am having trouble projecting myself into that role.
 
Wherever I land, it'll be "all in"... those college tuition bills won't wait!  I'm usually very decisive, but this decision is driving me crazy.
 
Is it too early in the morning to start drinking?
 

voltmoie's picture
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Joined: 2008-11-05

Nah, you won't be "all in" you've already convinced yourself you are better than all three options.

Time to add a fourth you can get behind.

3rdyrp2's picture
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LeaseNoMore wrote:
Jones- independence, ability to help the 'less than wealthy', etc., but apparently with the reputation of being minor league (I didn't really know that until I started reading this forum), pushing only certain basic products, and yes- door knocking.
 
I think you are all getting your leg pulled.

LeaseNoMore's picture
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Joined: 2009-10-23

Hey Volt...  I must be in the wrong forum.  I thought this was Registered Rep, but apparently it is Registered Pychoanalyst.

 
Don't mistake weighing the pros and cons of various options in order to reach an intelligent, thought-out decision with the inability to go "all in" on any one of them. 
 
I'm watching the NFL channel and they just referred to "Edward Jones Stadium" in St Louis... maybe that was a sign from above. 

voltmoie's picture
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Do it on a sheet of paper at home if you don't want feedback. Come on here and you're going to get an opinion.

Remember, you don't know any of these people. They can't tell you what to do. They might or might not be what they say so how the hell do you expect to make an "intelligent, thought-out decision" on here.

Pick up the phone and call people in each firm all across the country and get the real truth.

LeaseNoMore's picture
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Thanks Volt...  "Feedback" would be giving an opinion on the 3 firms mentioned, not presuming to know me well enough to know what I would do with your input.
 
I appreciate all input but, you are right, it is coming from anonymous sources, each with their own opinion and agenda.  It's just one resource I am using to make a decision.
 
It's between doing research where I can (including here) and drawing straws.

Ron 14's picture
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Volt - owned

voltmoie's picture
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So, you are using strangers on an internet forum as a resource to make a decision that will have profound effects on your life and career? That's sad. Do some real work you lazy bastard. ( i say that in kind terms, seriously) Go meet with people in the field. If I had listened to most of these idiots I would still be looking for a job since every firm except their 1 person office is terrible.

Here is my feedback for you:

Choose NY Life. I work for them. They do a great job helping you develop your natural market. In less than a year I'm already on track to make six figures. Don't worry about the insurance part, I can focus on whatever I want as long as I'm bringing in the numbers. I'm an investment guy and my manager is cool with that. In fact, most of the INSURANCE guys in my office just throw me referrals because they don't want to deal with it.

...curious how I was owned, Ron, we're having a discussion? I'm not trying to one-up him

Ron 14's picture
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Volt - He said it is one resource he is using to make a decision. You ask questions on here everyday to get ideas and what not.

newnew's picture
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Lease- what you're experiencing in the natural cynicism of this career. We see so many many many newbies that fail after being SO SURE of their opinions at first. It SHOULD NOT come back at you like this- you had a very reasonable newbie question, but unfortunately it is often hard to get answers here without the 'tude.  Just ignore it seems to work best. Good luck. I followed the Jones recipe and it worked. Call some reps and go interview THEM. Great co that is NOT for most people.

voltmoie's picture
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That's true. I think there is a bit of a difference between "how does this script sound" and what firm is right for me. We know nothing about this guy. He strengths, financial situation, family, area of the country, etc. etc. - how can we really lead him in the right direction .. plus there are so many bitter idiots on here I don't think he'll get a straight answer.

Best thing to do is ask folks in person that work at those firms. Interview them, get the pros and cons and then go. Come back when you want to know how to run a seminar or brag about passing the 7. That's the best feedback I can give someone.

3rdyrp2's picture
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I don't think he's basing his decision on what a bunch of posters say about the firms.  Maybe he is going to ask those who work there in person, but wants to gather some questions based on what people say here.  Like if someone mentioned that if you leave EDJ to go somewhere else within the 1st year, you may be on the hook for $75,000.  He could take that info and ask a person who works there if that's really true.  They may not have voluntarily given him that news without being asked. 
 
Volt - I didn't know you were also an accomplished chef!  Your hamburger hash appears to need a little work though.
 
http://allrecipes.com/Cook/18375338/Profile.aspx

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Haha .. not sure I've ever cooked anything in my life. Only other place I've used this name is fannation.com which has already been covered.

Pathetic you googled my name though. Nothing better to do? More proof the people on here are idiots?

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voltmoie wrote:Pathetic you googled my name though. Nothing better to do? More proof the people on here are idiots?
 
You're right.  With 83 minutes until kickoff I literally have nothing to do until 1pm. 

voltmoie's picture
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No doubt, I'm trying to get my fantasy roster set.

anonymous's picture
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LeaseNoMore wrote:Thanks deekay & inland...  This is an odd situation I find myself in (owner of a moderately successful business forced to make a career change due to the tanking of an entire industry).
 
So here I am...  with Jones, MSSB, and NYL as options.  Each has some things I like and some things I don't...
 
Jones- independence, ability to help the 'less than wealthy', etc., but apparently with the reputation of being minor league (I didn't really know that until I started reading this forum), pushing only certain basic products, and yes- door knocking.
 
MSSB- power of being the big boy in the neighborhood, bigger salary, more commercial products to offer (good for my contacts), but in an 'under the manager's thumb' environment, only looking for people with sustantial money to invest, etc
 
NYL- make $$ sooner selling insurance, can sell investments too, lots of flexibility, but they are focused on insurance and, I am probably wrong, but it seems that extracting ins premiums in this economy would be less likely to happen than getting somebody to let me help them fix their battered investment portfolio.  I have NOTHING against insurance salespeople, but I am having trouble projecting myself into that role.
 
Wherever I land, it'll be "all in"... those college tuition bills won't wait!  I'm usually very decisive, but this decision is driving me crazy.
 
Is it too early in the morning to start drinking?
 

It's not too early to start drinking.   Don't consider NYL without checking out Northwestern Mutual, MassMutual, and Guardian.

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anonymous wrote:It's not too early to start drinking.   Don't consider NYL without checking out Northwestern Mutual, MassMutual, and Guardian.Best advice I've ever heard...and those other three companies are good too...

LeaseNoMore's picture
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Thanks to all... keep those cards and letters coming.  
 
And, after 3 fantasy Super Bowls, I am 1-5 so far this year.   Maybe I better visit RegisteredFantasyFootballExpert.com for some advice.   I hear there are 3 free agents available and I need some help on which one to pick up.  Their names are Edward Jones, Morgan Stanley, and some guy named N.Y. Liferman.
 
And... that drinking early thing was the BEST idea I've had so far today! 

inlandTX's picture
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As an aside, I've always gotten a kick out of this notion from this forum that Edward Jones is "small time". I can say, after the year we've all just been through, I am very proud to be here instead of over at Merrill Lyn... I mean, Bank of America, or over at the game of musical chairs that is A.G. Edwards --> Wachovia  ---> Wells Fargo.I know, I know. Our one-broker offices and self-restricted product lines and  the "aw, shucks" sales approach. I get it. But I didn't choose Jones for the biggest payout or to fiddle with options trading. I chose Jones precisely because we don't condescend when we talk to people. This may be blasphemy on this site, but the absolute bottom line of calling my day a success isn't always how much money I made on today's trade. THAT'S why I chose Jones.As for your choice of where to be in the business, I'd advise to slow WAY down and do some due diligence on a wide variety of firms. But don't think you can hop on the Jones bandwagon for the office and the BOA but then do it all your own way. Like I said before, your training will be worthless. If you wanted to be a baker, for example, you wouldn't go to school at a place that only teaches you how to carve steaks.Be smart - play to your strengths and find a firm that will support your preferred business model.

LeaseNoMore's picture
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Well said Inland...  I appreciate the valuable input.

The BEAR's picture
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I just accepted the EDJ offer. Looking forward to my first kool aid party. Seriously, I am in an upscale community of one of the wealthiest counties in the country (Home price averages $750K, Family income $175k+). I like the EDJ DKnock model. Think it drives home the difference between you and the guy int the cubical dialing for dollars all day. I have lived here for 20+ years and have a healthy "natural market" to help my cause. My question is how succesful is the EDJ model in such a community? Town is loaded with C level's and entertainment people. Comments?

inlandTX's picture
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The Jones model works everywhere people want to be treated authentically.

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The BEAR wrote:I just accepted the EDJ offer. Looking forward to my first kool aid party. Seriously, I am in an upscale community of one of the wealthiest counties in the country (Home price averages $750K, Family income $175k+). I like the EDJ DKnock model. Think it drives home the difference between you and the guy int the cubical dialing for dollars all day. I have lived here for 20+ years and have a healthy "natural market" to help my cause. My question is how succesful is the EDJ model in such a community? Town is loaded with C level's and entertainment people. Comments?Sounds like they put you in my town!!! Jones will work as long as you believe in what you are selling and how you are selling it...if you don't believe in it 100%, you should go looking for a new firm. ps: if you call face-to-face contacts "trick-or-treating" for investments, you probably should go looking for a new firm.

WarRoom's picture
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The Jones Model will work if you do it. You try and out think it and you are on your own. They've done this for 30+ years and built a massive firm. Guessing it works.

The BEAR's picture
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the Knocking was fun (Sincerely enjoyed it). Was surprised how many folks opened up and were willing to chat.  Problem is that door to door soliciting is only allowed with a license. Even tho EDJ said find another area to do it, if that was the case I wasn't getting in the car and driving almost an hour somewhere. Just curious on its efficacy in similar demograohics. I know they have failed miserabley in surrounding towns. One town they failed with a newnew and then succeeded when they grabed a guy from MS w/a book. Hope to use my "natural market" combined with the jones reciepe to succeed. I'm taking a 75% paycut to make this work. Fully committed. Only doubts I have is as a sane parent with three kids and one in college...and a mortgage.

Moraen's picture
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Lease - to answer your original question. No, you don't have to knock on doors.

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Moraen wrote:Lease - to answer your original question. No, you don't have to knock on doors.
 
That's not entirely true.  You will end up having to knock on doors at some point.  You'll probably have to go with your mentor, possibly your Regional Leader too.  However, beyond the initial training period, as long as you are putting numbers on the board, nobody is going to care where your leads come from. 
 
My suggestion with Jones is to follow the doorknocking recipe and supplement it with your list of warm leads.  You were right on target with your comment before about a little bit of both.  You'll need to let  your community know that you're in business.  Of course you could run an ad in the local paper, but there's nothing like a handshake across the counter or at the front door to let people know you're there and you're serious about your business. 
 
 

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The BEAR wrote:I just accepted the EDJ offer. Looking forward to my first kool aid party. Seriously, I am in an upscale community of one of the wealthiest counties in the country (Home price averages $750K, Family income $175k+). I like the EDJ DKnock model. Think it drives home the difference between you and the guy int the cubical dialing for dollars all day. I have lived here for 20+ years and have a healthy "natural market" to help my cause. My question is how succesful is the EDJ model in such a community? Town is loaded with C level's and entertainment people. Comments?
 
TB, are on the West Coast or East Coast?  Based on the Entertainment comment, I assume West.  If you ARE on the East Coast, let me know, I can give you some insight.  In either case, much of it in these communities has to do with perception.  I can give you some feedback if you want to PM me.  It starts with not being the "Jones kool-aide guy".  I have very littly "Jones" crap in my office, other than the green wall and the Ted Jones picture with the horse (believe it or not, people seem to gravitate to it, and they LOVE it.).  One nice little wooden sign outside the door.  Sell YOU and your process, but not Jones (other than the private partnership aspect, conservative approach, and "service" model).  In wealthy areas, you may actually have a pretty good shot at some of the people that don't have "millions" because they are either too small for the huge wirehouse teams/"wealth management" firms, or they are getting no service at all because they are small.  But to some firms on those areas, $1mm may be a small client.  I have a colleague that works in the Greenwich area of CT.  He is absolutely KILLING it.  So it can work.

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I'll say I am in the northern Suburbs/exhurbs of N.Y. City. Target rich, been here for 20+ years, deep roots in community, I've been in senior mgmt positions with fortune 500's. making a career change.  Think the EDJ model actually stands out from the big WMgmt guys for the reasons you say. They're all sitting in their cubicals dialing for dollars. Just another guy on the phone who wants you to open an account with them.  Just want to maximaize my kill rate when the time comes to sell. yes selling "me" is key and but the brand works to...I hope. LOL

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The BEAR wrote:I'll say I am in the northern Suburbs/exhurbs of N.Y. City. Target rich, been here for 20+ years, deep roots in community, I've been in senior mgmt positions with fortune 500's. making a career change.  Think the EDJ model actually stands out from the big WMgmt guys for the reasons you say. They're all sitting in their cubicals dialing for dollars. Just another guy on the phone who wants you to open an account with them.  Just want to maximaize my kill rate when the time comes to sell. yes selling "me" is key and but the brand works to...I hope. LOL
 
Dear God to holy hell.  Standing out from the Wealth Management guys?  Wealth Management guys wouldn't touch 100% of the clients you are going to get.  Yea they are all locked up in their cubicle rueing the day they decided not to go to EDJ. 

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a lot of people at the firm DONT doorknock. ive met more people who took over an office than started new new.

the people that take over an office might doorknock for a few months

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3rdyrp2 wrote:The BEAR wrote:I'll say I am in the northern Suburbs/exhurbs of N.Y. City. Target rich, been here for 20+ years, deep roots in community, I've been in senior mgmt positions with fortune 500's. making a career change.  Think the EDJ model actually stands out from the big WMgmt guys for the reasons you say. They're all sitting in their cubicals dialing for dollars. Just another guy on the phone who wants you to open an account with them.  Just want to maximaize my kill rate when the time comes to sell. yes selling "me" is key and but the brand works to...I hope. LOL
 
Dear God to holy hell.  Standing out from the Wealth Management guys?  Wealth Management guys wouldn't touch 100% of the clients you are going to get.  Yea they are all locked up in their cubicle rueing the day they decided not to go to EDJ. 
 
I think he is responding to my comment about the clients that could not/would not get service from a wirehouse/WM firm in the NYC area because of the size of their accounts.  I don't think he is suggesting that he would go toe-to-toe with them at Jones.  My point to him was that there is going to be a lot of "low-hanging fruit" in affluent areas that he could capture, that would be considered decent assets in most other areas.
If you have 300-400K in Greenwich, CT, you are on welfare.  I am quite certain that most average advisors in other parts of the country would "accept" a new client with that amount.

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From that perspective it makes complete sense.   I just saw the comment about WMA's and picturing him thinking they are drolls who sit in a 3x3 cube all day dialing like they are in a boiler room and hating life.  My company is not a premier wealth manager by any means, but I know my managers used to sell it to the recruits as a place that emphasizes the "personal touch" and sticking up their noses at those who simply dial all day.  Since this guy just got hired, I'm wondering if thats how it was sold to him.

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3rdyrp2 wrote:
From that perspective it makes complete sense.   I just saw the comment about WMA's and picturing him thinking they are drolls who sit in a 3x3 cube all day dialing like they are in a boiler room and hating life.  My company is not a premier wealth manager by any means, but I know my managers used to sell it to the recruits as a place that emphasizes the "personal touch" and sticking up their noses at those who simply dial all day.  Since this guy just got hired, I'm wondering if thats how it was sold to him.
 
Got it.  It's funny how some companies (such as Jones) paint a picture that every other firm makes you cold call all day.
Incidentally, I think he is just looking at Jones - I don't think he has even applied yet.

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My apologies for the start of this thread. I will apologize for my damn generation. This isn't anything to do with Jones. It's simply a staple of my generation. "Do I have to....", "but why do I need to do that", "I can't do that", "but...but...but".  Grow some f***in Balls and just do it.

Ron 14's picture
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Ronnie Dobbs wrote:My apologies for the start of this thread. I will apologize for my damn generation. This isn't anything to do with Jones. It's simply a staple of my generation. "Do I have to....", "but why do I need to do that", "I can't do that", "but...but...but".  Grow some f***in Balls and just do it.
 
And spiffy went to lunch with this guy. Wow.

Mr.Blonde's picture
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How was lunch Ronnie? Did you have sausage and meatballs?

Ron 14's picture
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Ron 14 wrote:Ronnie Dobbs wrote:My apologies for the start of this thread. I will apologize for my damn generation. This isn't anything to do with Jones. It's simply a staple of my generation. "Do I have to....", "but why do I need to do that", "I can't do that", "but...but...but".  Grow some f***in Balls and just do it.
 
And spiffy went to lunch with this guy. Wow. I believe Jones calls it "mentoring"

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