Leaving advisorheads, coming back to RR

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LA Broker's picture
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Joined: 2008-12-03

Who else got tired of the bs in advisorhead forum.  I am done with the site and coming back to where it all started RR, who else is with me?  Let's make this forum good again, it is about the posters not the new web layout. 

squash2's picture
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Joined: 2010-03-09

Never left.. But kind of glad some of those guys are gone...

Spaceman Spiff's picture
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Joined: 2006-08-08

Those guys did a good job creating an alternative to RR.  At first I thought Jones might actually allow their site in addition to this one.  But with all of the "avatars" (ahem, soft porn), pics of the day, cussing, etc, Jones wouldn't touch it.  They wouldn't even think twice about it.   But I agree, I'd like to keep improving this site and get it back to what it was before.  Minus, of course, some of the software things I miss which I realize will not be coming back.   

LA Broker's picture
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Joined: 2008-12-03

The problem was Biofreeze somehow starting getting info of other members and started outing them last night.  I want nothing to do with this so I closed out my account.  Ever since the members have been split into two different forums the overall quality is down for all discussions.  I can at least trust RR that they will not release my email info to other members, can not say the same for advisorhea. 

PremierAdvisor's picture
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Joined: 2009-07-22

I visit both sites and neither have anything to offer.  Who got outed?

B24's picture
B24
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Joined: 2008-07-08

I thought you guys were kidding until I went over there and saw the shitstorm.

B24's picture
B24
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LA Broker wrote:The problem was Biofreeze somehow starting getting info of other members and started outing them last night.  I want nothing to do with this so I closed out my account.  Ever since the members have been split into two different forums the overall quality is down for all discussions.  I can at least trust RR that they will not release my email info to other members, can not say the same for advisorhea.  FWIW, the admins are not giving out anyone's info.  They take the security and control of the site very seriously, and I wouldn't suggest that they are in any way compromising anyone's identity.  Bio has caused a shitstorm over there, but I wouldn't use that as a reflection on the site.

Indyone's picture
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Joined: 2005-05-30

PremierAdvisor wrote:I visit both sites and neither have anything to offer.  Who got outed?I was one of them, but there's nothing new about that.  He's "outed" me before.  Whatever you do, kiddies, don't ever call a certain Texas EIA salesman on the phone.  That's the #1 way he gets your identity.He's effectively killed another forum so I'll be spending more time over here now, thanks to that piker.

Mike Damone's picture
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Joined: 2004-12-01

Well, it's a good thing I still have my username and password for this forum.

PremierAdvisor's picture
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Joined: 2009-07-22

Indyone wrote:PremierAdvisor wrote:I visit both sites and neither have anything to offer.  Who got outed?I was one of them, but there's nothing new about that.  He's "outed" me before.  Whatever you do, kiddies, don't ever call a certain Texas EIA salesman on the phone.  That's the #1 way he gets your identity.He's effectively killed another forum so I'll be spending more time over here now, thanks to that piker.Not that there is anything wrong with that lifestyle (personally it's not for me), but if you've been outed why not just stay out?  Besides, this is an internet forum so who really cares?

Indyone's picture
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Joined: 2005-05-30

LOL...funny guy

I am legend's picture
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Joined: 2010-03-04

The other site got a little over the top for sure.  I have kept posting on both, but probably prefer this one if activity picks up again.

LA Broker's picture
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Joined: 2008-12-03

B24I was not trying to say that Mo or Ice were to blame, I think they are both good guys.  I was not sure how Biofreeze was tracking down guys emails to pull up facebook, ect and find out who people were.  What he did to Indyone and LSU was completely out of line.  I just did not want anything to do with that site after I saw that happening, I have too much to lose.  I just felt RR would be a more secure site to log in to in the future.  It would be nice if the other guys gravitated back to this site and it became a solid learning experience again, that is why I am here.  The other site became to much back and fourth and avatars that made me uncomfortable pulling up while working, who knows how much compliance really sees what we do on our computers. 

Spaceman Spiff's picture
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Joined: 2006-08-08

LA Broker wrote:  The other site became to much back and fourth and avatars that made me uncomfortable pulling up while working, who knows how much compliance really sees what we do on our computers.  That's what I like about this site.  There are limits to what they would allow to be on their pages.  Even if I could pull up the other site on my Jones computer, I'd hate to be looking at that site with one of those avatars on the screen when my BOA came into my office.  It wouldn't be like I'm opening an email someone sent or openly surfing for it, but the end result could be the same.  It often doesn't take much for a woman to be offended and call HR with a sexual harrassment claim.  There's a zero tolerance policy at Jones.  I'm just not comfortable taking the risk. So, while I prefer the setup over there, I prefer the access and comfort over here. 

Indyone's picture
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Joined: 2005-05-30

LA Broker wrote:B24I was not trying to say that Mo or Ice were to blame, I think they are both good guys.  I was not sure how Biofreeze was tracking down guys emails to pull up facebook, ect and find out who people were.  What he did to Indyone and LSU was completely out of line.  I just did not want anything to do with that site after I saw that happening, I have too much to lose.  I just felt RR would be a more secure site to log in to in the future.  It would be nice if the other guys gravitated back to this site and it became a solid learning experience again, that is why I am here.  The other site became to much back and fourth and avatars that made me uncomfortable pulling up while working, who knows how much compliance really sees what we do on our computers.  No, Ice & Morean are good guys and just got caught in the crossfire.  I agree that what was done to me, and especially LSU, was over the top, but as far as security goes, there's no real magic in how our resident troll got the information.  Several of us (including myself) he ID'd while running a forum and promising in the TOS not to "out" anyone.  In the end, if you used his forum and didn't use an anonymous email address to register, it was easy for him to identify you and use that information later when it suited him.  He even made reference once to having a notebook of such information.  I would guess that most of the rest were ID'd either through careless clues left in posts (I've even seen guys sign posts with their real names), or through phone calls he's always inviting people to make.  If you call him, you've just given up your ID even if you try to be careful and block your number, etc.  Eventually, he'll gain your trust on the phone and you'll slip and say something that gives you up.  I know because I've been in that position before with several of you who have called me for advice.  I got a call once from a guy that to my knowledge, was very careful with his ID.  Eventually, I had his first name...then his state...then his current firm.  It was a piece of cake to ID him at that point.  The point of this is, if you don't want someone to ID you, you definitely don't want to use a work email address or an email address with your name in it in a forum ran by that person and you don't want to call that person on the phone.  With 90% of the posters here, giving your real ID is probably not going to harm you, but for the other 10%, you need to think what you are doing.  Also, using your name (even a part of it) as your user ID is a bad idea.Many of you know who I am.  Some I've shared with voluntarily and others of you have learned it through the efforts of our resident troll.  I'm OK with that as I've got nothing to hide.  I run a clean, profitable practice, am generally a decent person, and enjoy helping people on these forums.  That doesn't make me above occasionally giving some of you a hard time, mostly in jest.  However, I assure you that I'm not here to treat anyone the way LSU, Ice Morean and I were treated by our troll.  Where I usually get involved is defending someone I think is being treated poorly.  Bullies don't like being stood up to and that's made me the occasional target of his attacks.  In the end, these attacks are not nearly as scary as most of you envision unless you're hiding something and don't want to be exposed as a fraud, or you have a compliance department that would be unhappy with something you've posted here.  Other than that, most of these threats are pretty harmless.  Last night's threat was to call people from my church and tell them what a bad person I was on the internet. (insert laughter emoticon here)  I told him to go ahead and smile and dial.I've enjoyed participating on both forums and I plan on continuing to do so, assuming the other forum survives the planned transfer of control.  Sure, there are a few questionable pictures and avatars over there, but there are decent people there as well as here and I've enjoyed forming relationships with several of you over the past five years.  In the end, forums are a great place to blow off some steam and share valuable information.  If the moderators remain as vigilant as they have over the past couple of days, the insanity should subside and we can get back to the business of helping each other and having a little fun in the process.

Prime Time's picture
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Joined: 2010-05-05

Well said.

gethardgetraw's picture
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Joined: 2009-10-22

"Last night's threat was to call people from my church and tell them what a bad person I was on the internet."Hahahahaha. I can just see him in his parent's dimly lit basement making anonymous calls to a church halfway across the country. Bravo Biofreeze. A true professional.

KensLoveChild's picture
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Joined: 2009-03-11

We'll see what happens after the revamp.    

DeBolt's picture
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Joined: 2009-07-12

So far so good...

Prime Time's picture
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Joined: 2010-05-05

No fireworks yet, although I am sure the troll is just waiting for an opportunity.

Prime Time's picture
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Joined: 2010-05-05

They are banning new members left and right.  Got me twice.

Milyunair's picture
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Joined: 2009-09-25

That guy has been doing these things for years.

Sportsfreakbob's picture
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Joined: 2008-08-24

Well, it seems like he isn't doing it over there anymore.

Wet_Blanket's picture
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Joined: 2008-11-13

The temporary automatic ban on new members is over.  Please try again.

Milyunair's picture
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Joined: 2009-09-25

Who owns that forum?

Wet_Blanket's picture
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Joined: 2008-11-13

Someone trustworthy. Here is a general overview of the changes made:1. New Owners - the troll was able to harrass and attempt to bully the previous owners.2. Active Moderators that are effective at keeping out the 'undesirables.'3. No more lurking - the forum is 100% private.  Guests have to register to see the basic board.  They have to post an introduction to this forum to gain access to rest of forum.4. Punishment is swift.All of this has accounted for better control over membership, as well as more participation from habitual lurkers.  Lots of praise going on over there.

Milyunair's picture
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Joined: 2009-09-25

Trust is a good thing. It seems like every so often, a forum breaks off of this forum, which seems natural. There have been some pretty weird advisor forums. Dungeons and dragons. It depends on your needs.   There used to be some pretty cool people here. Perhaps the anonymous forum is best for old friends. It will be interesting to see how things grow again here over time. I would be interested to see if a few of us here could increase our business and stay motivated  this year by sharing a few focused thoughts.  I always wondered why RR did not tie the forum in better to their business. I trust RR, based on experience. You're successful and you're going to invest your time, talent and energy on a forum. Work on your motivation, perception of the industry, perspective, writing and have fun. You need trust.

N.D.'s picture
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Joined: 2009-07-13

The changes with the forum software upset many people so another forum was started based of that reason. I think personally it had more to do with the constant bombarding of the same questions from newbs. If RR would make a couple changes with the layout and provide a senior member only section it would be better here and eventually the organic growth will bring it back, but post count here is suffering BIG TIME right now.  

bluewire's picture
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Joined: 2009-07-04

I wish those guys the best but they're drama queens over there. I hate RR for this shitty layout of a forum (and it is shitty) as well as the disregard for the users preferences but I can get over that. Its almost like how my firm treats the FA's. I hope that the traffic picks up here and there is a return to some sort of intelligent and professional discourse on topics relative to becoming a better advisor.

Prime Time's picture
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Joined: 2010-05-05

Maybe you should start your own forum bluewire, although I bet you would find a reason to complain about that also.

N.D.'s picture
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Joined: 2009-07-13

bluewire wrote:I wish those guys the best but they're drama queens over there. I hate RR for this shitty layout of a forum (and it is shitty) as well as the disregard for the users preferences but I can get over that. Its almost like how my firm treats the FA's. I hope that the traffic picks up here and there is a return to some sort of intelligent and professional discourse on topics relative to becoming a better advisor.Good luck answering how much the wires pay as a salary for newbs and giving advise about non-solicits. thats all you see here anymore.

Milyunair's picture
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Joined: 2009-09-25

Don't worry, gnats will again hurl turds on this here pinhead. The other forum always melts down, and the rats always come swimming home, the captain always rolls the annuity contracts when the surrend charges expire, and waxes about the virtues of tying notes to dog's backs. Welcome to the Hotel California.

squash2's picture
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Joined: 2010-03-09

That advisorhead website is crap... They had a poll a while back on production levels and I think 80% were under 250K... So it is a bunch of newbies, some RIAs, and a lot of pud producers wasting time...Last time I checked(before they made it private... I would too with the lack of good commentary on that board)...There prospecting board if full of people avoiding prospecting..(Google adwords, mailings, 1 guy has been talking about a seminar since the site started yet never seems to do one....It makes sense that most of the people on that site have small production).. At least I don't have to go over there anymore..

Sportsfreakbob's picture
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Joined: 2008-08-24

Squash 2 -Anybody who has gone over there and looked at the posts over the last week, since the troll was banned, especially over the last three or four days, would realize what a truly moronic post this is. There is value here, and there is certainly a TON of value there.

Magician's picture
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Joined: 2008-05-19

squash2 wrote:That advisorhead website is crap... They had a poll a while back on production levels and I think 80% were under 250K... So it is a bunch of newbies, some RIAs, and a lot of pud producers wasting time...Last time I checked(before they made it private... I would too with the lack of good commentary on that board)...There prospecting board if full of people avoiding prospecting..(Google adwords, mailings, 1 guy has been talking about a seminar since the site started yet never seems to do one....It makes sense that most of the people on that site have small production).. At least I don't have to go over there anymore..I'm pretty sure there are a few "big" producers over there.  Certainly not all are.  Other than BondGuy, who is over here that isn't over there that is a big producer?That said, prospecting is more than cold calling, doorknocking and seminars, unless you are truly myopic.  Unless you open your mind, you will limit your success.

Milyunair's picture
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Joined: 2009-09-25

Studies show about 10% of high net worth client accumulation comes from cold-calling, direct mail, seminars and the like. Who here really wants more clients with 30 or 60k?Folks who have a need to  be aggressive or negative should consider staying off the RR site. This forum right here could be a resource for us to increase our production and stay positive. Doing the 90% necessary to grow your book can be lonely work, which is best understood and encouraged by your peers, and not your competitiors in the office a few doors down the hall. We are that peer group, none of us alone knows all the answers.  

Indyone's picture
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squash2 wrote:That advisorhead website is crap... They had a poll a while back on production levels and I think 80% were under 250K... So it is a bunch of newbies, some RIAs, and a lot of pud producers wasting time...Last time I checked(before they made it private... I would too with the lack of good commentary on that board)...There prospecting board if full of people avoiding prospecting..(Google adwords, mailings, 1 guy has been talking about a seminar since the site started yet never seems to do one....It makes sense that most of the people on that site have small production).. At least I don't have to go over there anymore..I went back at the poll in question and it's not quite as dismal as you remembered...2/3 of the respondents were below $250K in annual production.  However, an almost identical percentage indicated in another poll that they were five years or less in the business (13/22 vs. 14/21).  I suspect that if members here are just as honest, the percentages would be very similar.Boards are often mostly new producers.  Once a new producer either fails out of the business or hits the big time, they generally disappear from these boards.  Some of us stay for different reasons, but most of us lose interest and/or get too busy.  How many of you remember Rightway? Zacko? Starka? Blarmston?  Most people come and go, and if you are looking for a forum where bunches of million dollar producers give freely of their time and advice, I think you're setting yourself up for disappointment.

BondGuy's picture
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Milyunair wrote:Studies show about 10% of high net worth client accumulation comes from cold-calling, direct mail, seminars and the like.Could you point me to one of those studies? 

BondGuy's picture
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Joined: 2006-09-21

Indyone wrote:Boards are often mostly new producers.  Once a new producer either fails out of the business or hits the big time, they generally disappear from these boards.  Some of us stay for different reasons, but most of us lose interest and/or get too busy.  How many of you remember Rightway? Zacko? Starka? Blarmston?  Most people come and go, and if you are looking for a forum where bunches of million dollar producers give freely of their time and advice, I think you're setting yourself up for disappointment.Most people are takers, not givers. They come to the boards to see what they can get from them. Once the need is fulfilled off they go! I'm not above that. I still learn from contributors. Success stories motivate me, so i love reading them. They never get old. Some of the best salesman in the world have posted on this forum.  Really, good stuff! I hope the new forum meets with the same success. And, for me, giving back is a need . The board gives me a way to do that.

Indyone's picture
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Joined: 2005-05-30

BondGuy wrote:And, for me, giving back is a need . The board gives me a way to do that.Exactly.  That's definitely one of the reasons I stay when it would often be more profitable to leave and not come back.

squash2's picture
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Joined: 2010-03-09

Milyunair wrote:Studies show about 10% of high net worth client accumulation comes from cold-calling, direct mail, seminars and the like. Who here really wants more clients with 30 or 60k?Folks who have a need to  be aggressive or negative should consider staying off the RR site. This forum right here could be a resource for us to increase our production and stay positive. Doing the 90% necessary to grow your book can be lonely work, which is best understood and encouraged by your peers, and not your competitiors in the office a few doors down the hall. We are that peer group, none of us alone knows all the answers.   What studies... so where do the other 90% come from (Linkedin/Facebook?)... If you say referral then you missed it because you would need a client to referr that person. Also most HNW people are small business owners that can be reached by phone.Indyone... I was never a member only a lurker to see what it was about. My point is that people who don't prospect or are not very good at it(generally new people through avoidance) are commenting all day on how to build their business eventhough they haven't done it.. 

squash2's picture
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Joined: 2010-03-09

Magician wrote:squash2 wrote:That advisorhead website is crap... They had a poll a while back on production levels and I think 80% were under 250K... So it is a bunch of newbies, some RIAs, and a lot of pud producers wasting time...Last time I checked(before they made it private... I would too with the lack of good commentary on that board)...There prospecting board if full of people avoiding prospecting..(Google adwords, mailings, 1 guy has been talking about a seminar since the site started yet never seems to do one....It makes sense that most of the people on that site have small production).. At least I don't have to go over there anymore..I'm pretty sure there are a few "big" producers over there.  Certainly not all are.  Other than BondGuy, who is over here that isn't over there that is a big producer?That said, prospecting is more than cold calling, doorknocking and seminars, unless you are truly myopic.  Unless you open your mind, you will limit your success.What makes those prospecting methods myopic??Google ad words don't count as prospecting..There are only 4 ways to get clients:1. Referral: most powerful, however takes clients to get referrals2. Cold Calling: quick and painless3. Doorknocking4. Mailing/Seminar: pretty much avoidance of prospecting and almost impossible starting out(unless a wholesaler pays for it) Everything else falls into those categories 

Moraen's picture
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Joined: 2009-01-22

  

squash2's picture
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Joined: 2010-03-09

Yes until you can show/prove/direct me otherwise.. And given the amount of text in your post I am guessing not..

N.D.'s picture
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Joined: 2009-07-13

squash2 wrote:What makes those prospecting methods myopic??Google ad words does not count as prospecting..There are only 4 ways to get clients:1. Referral: most powerful, however takes clients to get referrals2. Cold Calling: quick and painless3. Doorknocking4. Mailing/Seminar: pretty much avoidance of prospecting and almost impossible starting out(unless a wholesaler pays for it) Everything else falls into those categoriesI agree with you comments here.However, in AH's defense I must say the forum "air" is cleaner and the amount of quality is improving. Like any forum though it will have cycles of ups and downs. You can only ask the same questions so many times. And until time passes and the next "learning/growing" cycle occurs, the subject matter will suffer. FYI - another "learning/growing" cycle started about 2 weeks ago and SOME of the posts are pure gold. 

Sportsfreakbob's picture
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Joined: 2008-08-24

What Indy said is correct.What did you expect, when was the last time Nick Murray posted here?Its an internet forum, numnut. Its a microcosm of the real world Good and bad. Takes a little effort to sif thru it. Its really unfortunate that you (squash) wrote that forum off, the posts in the last week or two have been really high quality. Sure there is a fair share of BS, but there is so much knowledge that is being missed by you because of your skepticism. After your demonstration over there, you might find you aren't even welcomed back if you wanted to, which i understand you don't. (and if you recall, i was one of the guys that defended you).As far as not learning from guys who havent built their businesses big yet, 2 comments1. as was already said, don't expect to find a forum full of Million Dollar producers wanting to give you advice2. Don't ever think you can't learn from someone. I was a reasonably successful producer the first 6 years of my career, then went into management (I'm back to full time production, but before you go off and say that if i was successful i wouldn't have gone into management, be aware that different people have different motivations). And as a manager, i learned from everyone, including the trainees. So don't be so high and mighty.

Wet_Blanket's picture
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Joined: 2008-11-13

I would welcome Squash, despite his surpringly harsh critique.

N.D.'s picture
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Joined: 2009-07-13

Good luck Wet. It would seem his only agenda for now is to claim the vacant "king of the RR hill" position...

squash2's picture
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Joined: 2010-03-09

Why is the time off so bad on this site??

squash2's picture
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Joined: 2010-03-09

Sportsfreakbob wrote:What Indy said is correct.What did you expect, when was the last time Nick Murray posted here?Its an internet forum, numnut. Its a microcosm of the real world Good and bad. Takes a little effort to sif thru it. Its really unfortunate that you (squash) wrote that forum off, the posts in the last week or two have been really high quality. Sure there is a fair share of BS, but there is so much knowledge that is being missed by you because of your skepticism. After your demonstration over there, you might find you aren't even welcomed back if you wanted to, which i understand you don't. (and if you recall, i was one of the guys that defended you).As far as not learning from guys who havent built their businesses big yet, 2 comments1. as was already said, don't expect to find a forum full of Million Dollar producers wanting to give you advice2. Don't ever think you can't learn from someone. I was a reasonably successful producer the first 6 years of my career, then went into management (I'm back to full time production, but before you go off and say that if i was successful i wouldn't have gone into management, be aware that different people have different motivations). And as a manager, i learned from everyone, including the trainees. So don't be so high and mighty. What made you switch the first time to management and then again back to advising?

KensLoveChild's picture
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Joined: 2009-03-11

Wet_Blanket wrote:I would welcome Squash, despite his surpringly harsh critique. Is it because he has been pooped on?

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