New Leaving Edward Jones

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SRJ's picture
SRJ
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Hi everyone. I have a quick question. I am looking to leave Edward Jones. I started training 9 months ago can sell was about 4 months ago(did kyc, evalgrad). I want to leave since I dont think this is the company for me. I do think it is a good company overall, just not for me. My friend has some assets at another insurance/financial firm that he wants me to help him with instead of starting from scratch with edj.  Has anyone in here left in such a short time? Did you get a bill for training cost? Since my numbers been pretty low, i have been threatened of being fired. If I get terminated does that void the contract and void the bill for training? Any advice is appreciated. 

MISS JONES's picture
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Joined: 2007-08-28

Training cost run you around 75K. In addition if you go to the competition they will sue you under the non-compete agreement you signed. (more $$ spent in legal fees) 
 
If you are fired.. They don't care about training costs or non-compete.. You are of NO threat to the firm (in their eyes).
 
Hope that helps.. So bottom line: Start producing or get fired!
 
Miss J

Spaceman Spiff's picture
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Joined: 2006-08-08

You may want to reread that legal document you signed when you joined EDJ.  I'm not sure how they'll react if they figure out that you stopped producing specifically because you want to leave and go join another firm.  They may still go after you. 
 
Just curious, but why isn't Jones the place for you?  Is it the doorknocking?  The phone calling?  The fact that you are probably working from home?  I'm just curious if the job as it was explained to you in the hiring process is any different than what you are really experiencing. 

Borker Boy's picture
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Joined: 2006-12-09

Many of us have been where you are...deciding after a few months of being out of Eval/Grad that we like the industry, but for one reason or the other, Jones just isn't a "fit" for us.
 
From what I can tell, the challenge of surviving in this business is no less difficult at any other firm. I've been with Jones for almost two years, and I am still riding the emotional rollercoaster and wondering when my income will level off. And if you think it's tough now, wait until your salary is gone.
 
I do know (because I have seen it time and time again with my own eyes), that if you can hang in there for 5 years, you'll be working less and earning more than most people you know.
 
This firm allows for tremendous flexibility. I know several guys in their thirties who have been here 10 years and spend more time on the golf course than in the office.
 
If you can tough it out, that's one heck of a trade off for relatively few years of hard work.

Dark Knight's picture
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C'mon borker, do you really think he's listening. 
SRJ, the way I understand it that if you get fired they won't come after you at all. 
 
Otherwise they probably will.  Yes they'll ask for 75k, but will settle for some amount, likely to be less than 10% of that total. 

rankstocks's picture
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SRJ,
    Time to face the music.  70-80% of all advisors fail, so don't hide your head in shame.  My advice is wait until your numbers are bad enough to get fired, and then apply at a credit union or bank.  Your pay will be low, but if you like this line of work, it is really your only choice.  I've literally seen dozens of new brokers fail, and their reasons for leaving are as varied as their backgrounds.  At least you found out a few months after your can-sell, compared to a few years in (probably wouldn't have made it that long anyway).  Joining a friend for a while might sound like fun, but if you don't prospect now, what will change?  Good luck

Jonesness's picture
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Joined: 2008-02-26

So Im a year and a half in with EJ.  I'm having problems with some company policy.  I have to get fired not to repay the "training fee"??  I think I signed a non-soliciate, but I dont remember the $72000 bill...I would think I would have remembered that.  Time to dig out the contract.

MISS JONES's picture
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Jonesness wrote:So Im a year and a half in with EJ.  I'm having problems with some company policy.  I have to get fired not to repay the "training fee"??  I think I signed a non-soliciate, but I dont remember the $72000 bill...I would think I would have remembered that.  Time to dig out the contract.
 
If your fired.. THEY DON'T CARE. You are of NO threat to our business. (or so they believe)
 
Miss J

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rankstocks wrote:
SRJ,
    Time to face the music.  70-80% of all advisors fail, so don't hide your head in shame.  My advice is wait until your numbers are bad enough to get fired, and then apply at a credit union or bank.  Your pay will be low, but if you like this line of work, it is really your only choice. 

 
I was BARELY a Segment 3 producer at EDJ.  My pay last year (1st full year at the bank) I made a little more than what a $300,000 producer would make at EDJ.  AND, someone else paid my advertising, mail, phone, newsletters, seminar costs beyond what the wholeseller pays, cell phone, health insurance, etc. which is worth at least $1,000/month, probably double that if you are doing anything beyond local phone calls and door knocking to bring people in.
 
There are downsides to a bank, but the "fact" that we are underpaid compared to our counterparts, especially at EDJ, isn't one of them.  Underpaid compared to independent is a different story completely, but that's not what we are talking about here.
 
For a $1mm producer, you are probably underpaid at most banks, including this one.  For a producer under $500,000, at least in my system, you are taking home about the same money than you would at EDJ (give or take $10,000 depending on where you hit the grid), and that isn't even counting the value of the referrals, that's just on a straight comparison at different production levels.
 
If you are a $500,000+ producer, and are not independent, then you are giving up too much of your gross to someone else, I don't care where you are.  I get alot of benefits from the bank, as you do from EDJ.  But they are benefits that I can buy myself for less than $300,000.

Jonesness's picture
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Joined: 2008-02-26

I wonder if getting fired would  be more beneficial to paying for those training fees?? It would take half a year to get fired on production?

Spaceman Spiff's picture
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Jonesness wrote:So Im a year and a half in with EJ.  I'm having problems with some company policy.  I have to get fired not to repay the "training fee"??  I think I signed a non-soliciate, but I dont remember the $72000 bill...I would think I would have remembered that.  Time to dig out the contract.
 
What policy are you struggling with?  Is it the diversification trip one that says you can't take a person of the same sex with you with whom you are having a non-platonic relationship? 

Ashland's picture
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Joined: 2007-03-06

I was BARELY a Segment 3 producer at EDJ.  My pay last year (1st full year at the bank) I made a little more than what a $300,000 producer would make at EDJ.  AND, someone else paid my advertising, mail, phone, newsletters, seminar costs beyond what the wholeseller pays, cell phone, health insurance, etc. which is worth at least $1,000/month, probably double that if you are doing anything beyond local phone calls and door knocking to bring people in.
 
There are downsides to a bank, but the "fact" that we are underpaid compared to our counterparts, especially at EDJ, isn't one of them.  Underpaid compared to independent is a different story completely, but that's not what we are talking about here.
 
For a $1mm producer, you are probably underpaid at most banks, including this one.  For a producer under $500,000, at least in my system, you are taking home about the same money than you would at EDJ (give or take $10,000 depending on where you hit the grid), and that isn't even counting the value of the referrals, that's just on a straight comparison at different production levels.
 
If you are a $500,000+ producer, and are not independent, then you are giving up too much of your gross to someone else, I don't care where you are.  I get alot of benefits from the bank, as you do from EDJ.  But they are benefits that I can buy myself for less than $300,000.

Borker Boy's picture
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Joined: 2006-12-09

Go get a second job without approval.
 
That way, you could put food on the table and accomplish your goal of getting canned.

Spaceman Spiff's picture
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Um...if you do it without approval, how are they going to know you have a second job?  The idea is good, but the fundamentals are flawed.

Borker Boy's picture
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Trust me, they'll find out.

Indyone's picture
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Borker Boy wrote:Go get a second job without approval.
 
That way, you could put food on the table and accomplish your goal of getting canned.
 
...that's pretty clever...perhaps pole-dancing?

Jonesness's picture
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Spaceman Spiff wrote:Jonesness wrote:So Im a year and a half in with EJ.  I'm having problems with some company policy.  I have to get fired not to repay the "training fee"??  I think I signed a non-soliciate, but I dont remember the $72000 bill...I would think I would have remembered that.  Time to dig out the contract.
 
What policy are you struggling with?  Is it the diversification trip one that says you can't take a person of the same sex with you with whom you are having a non-platonic relationship? 
 
Spaceman,
Dude, its supposed to be a secret...why are you exposing OUR cover........ LOVER

Jonesness's picture
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Indyone wrote:Borker Boy wrote:Go get a second job without approval.
 
That way, you could put food on the table and accomplish your goal of getting canned.
 
...that's pretty clever...perhaps pole-dancing?
 
"failing to disclose of outside activities"   Is that an instant canning...and how will it affect my license?

doberman's picture
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Joined: 2005-02-22

Spaceman Spiff wrote:
Um...if you do it without approval, how are they going to know you have a second job? 
Your compliance department will, periodically, pull your credit report and on the report will be, not only inquiries from potential employers to which you've submitted a job application, but also the list of other employers (if any) for which you currently work.
 
Also, if they uncover the fact that you have an unapproved job and fire you, it may go on your record, making it difficult to get employed at another B/D at some future time.

Jonesness's picture
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Joined: 2008-02-26

I guess the difference would be if I get employed or go indy..Im sure ML would question the fireing..but I know of several RIA's that would be OK with a fireing.

Broker7's picture
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Joined: 2007-02-23

I had the same thoughts as you  around year 2, did alot of research, after weighing the pros and cons...decided to coast thru year 3 and them make my step to indy, and avoided battling the company attorneys..   From several instances that I have seen and heard, it's possible to get a job in this industry as long as you have your 7, there was a broker who was a high producer that got fired for forging signatures (for commissionable profit), after getting hammered by NASD (now finra),
he was soon hired by a major wirehouse.

Jonesness's picture
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I have an appointment with a wirehouse soon.  I know of an FA that had his contract bought out by them.. I wonder though if the contract can be cut in half..and my share is about $20K, if I should just go indy.  I was already licensed and brought over substantial AUM to an existing EJ office.

Spaceman Spiff's picture
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So, you didn't go through S7, 66, KYC, Eval/Grad, PDP, and all that jazz with Jones?  You took over an already existing office? 
 
The main beef with Jones and guys leaving in the first three years is all the money they spend to build an office for you and train you.  If you were a transfer broker who took over an existing office, they probably don't have all that much invested in you.  Since they don't give up front money, there's nothing there.  Just a thought.

Jonesness's picture
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Spaceman,
I have been a broker for 13 years.  Got offered a nice office..I liked it  and took the position w/o researching the Jones philosophy. Already had my licenses.. had to do the classes along with seg 2,3. I'm scheduled for 4 class next month.  The issue was with options, as well as many many FSpends and PEND messeges..I blow an hour a day answering.. Everything I do is above board..but when I sell a stock in 2-30 days....I get hammered.
Buy and hold does not work for my advisement, so I need to go elsewhere.  Sorry about blowing steam..the client loss was just the final straw..
 
Seriously, how any FS do you have to answer in a week??

Morphius's picture
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Jonesness wrote:I have an appointment with a wirehouse soon.  I know of an FA that had his contract bought out by them.. I wonder though if the contract can be cut in half..and my share is about $20K, if I should just go indy.  I was already licensed and brought over substantial AUM to an existing EJ office.You mentioned earlier you weren't really sure if you had signed a non-compete or non-solicit, or if there was some $72K figure - you were going to dig out your contract.  Now you're speculating about splitting your 'share.'You really need to read your contract to be very clear on EXACTLY what terms you agreed to when you joined EDJ.   What specifically does your contract say?

Jonesness's picture
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Morphious,
I think it was the standard contract.   I looked for it last night, and it is also not at my office.  Before I call HR (as recommended by a kind forum member), i am going to get everything ready, as I know that calling HR for my contract is an automatic red flag.
By scanning this forum, it looks like a prorated amount..and then about 1/2 that will be the fina requested amount.. if that is the case, indy might be better than wirehouse for me.

newnew's picture
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why do you say that?

Jonesness's picture
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??please complete your thought.
 
What is "that?"

Morphius's picture
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Jonesness wrote:Morphious,
I think it was the standard contract.   I looked for it last night, and it is also not at my office.  Before I call HR (as recommended by a kind forum member), i am going to get everything ready, as I know that calling HR for my contract is an automatic red flag.
By scanning this forum, it looks like a prorated amount..and then about 1/2 that will be the fina requested amount.. if that is the case, indy might be better than wirehouse for me.Gotcha.  You're right asking for a copy of your contract will be a red flag, but you definitely want to be clear on your contract before you act, as your potential liabilities may influence your decision or at least the timing.  So it may be the lesser of two evils.One key point - beyond whatever wording Jones typically uses for standard non-compete or non-solicit clauses - involves the critical issue of repaying training costs.  If I understand you correctly that you came to Jones already licensed with an established book, you should not have even been asked to sign a contract with training costs repayment.  And I believe Jones does not pay upfront money (forgivable loans), so I can't really imagine why you would owe any real money to get out.  You may be free and clear from that $ standpoint - not that Jones or any b/d will make it easy on you.But you won't be able to be sure of that important point just going off of what the standard contract might say.  You're really going to need copies of any/all employment agreements you signed to do that.Good luck.

Spaceman Spiff's picture
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Jonesness wrote:
Spaceman,
I have been a broker for 13 years.  Got offered a nice office..I liked it  and took the position w/o researching the Jones philosophy. Already had my licenses.. had to do the classes along with seg 2,3. I'm scheduled for 4 class next month.  The issue was with options, as well as many many FSpends and PEND messeges..I blow an hour a day answering.. Everything I do is above board..but when I sell a stock in 2-30 days....I get hammered.
Buy and hold does not work for my advisement, so I need to go elsewhere.  Sorry about blowing steam..the client loss was just the final straw..
 
Seriously, how any FS do you have to answer in a week??
 
More and more it seems like.  I get an FSPend for EVERY mutual fund sell I do.  I've been getting them for some bonds I've traded recently.  Typically, maybe a couple a week on average. 
 
Jones is a buy and hold kind of company.  Our region just lost a guy to LPL because he ran a biz like yours.  Jones isn't for everyone.  If I were you, I'd take my clients and go indy. 

newnew's picture
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Jonesness wrote:??please complete your thought.
 
What is "that?"

Jonesness's picture
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Joined: 2008-02-26

Morphious,
Thanks for your insight..you reinforced the direction I am going.  After my meeting with the wirehouse, I will be able to decide either them or indy, I need to set up an lpl and RJ meeting to see if they can assist in moving.  If I cannot find my contract tonight, the HR phone call will be the last thing I do before I quit.  Getting fired may still not be out of the question though.

newnew's picture
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"fired for not following co policy" could be public info for any future prospect OR B/D to access forever

Jonesness's picture
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Spaceman,
I got a pending last week asking for my FS to be more specific, my field supervisor wants me to write an essay for each transaction.   I knew when I started that it might not be a fit, I cleared my advising style with my RL and he has backed me up, but FS is always on my back about much of nothing.  Oh well....I'm definitely on my way out...hopefully I can make my move without causing too many waves

Jonesness's picture
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newnew wrote:"fired for not following co policy" could be public info for any future prospect OR B/D to access forever
 
there are brokers of fired for sexual harrassment, discretionary trading, fraud, but they go on to another company..I definitely do not condone any of that...I'm a clean sheet for now..   I probably will not go that route, but who knows, the starbucks across the street is hiring

EDJ4now's picture
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Joined: 2006-02-08

Compliance is a pain in the a** everywhere.  The difference is at EDJ, the failed broker that is your compliance officer had only 2 years of industry experience before he washed out, and he only gets paid $40,000-50,000 to be your "supervisor."  Guess what kind of quality that attracts.
 
I don't agree with my compliance officer all of the time, and will readily admit (and even tell him on occasion) that he is frequently being a pain in the a** over trivial matters.  However, overall he is much better informed than FS was at EDJ.  He also has experience with a couple of different firms, so he hasn't been indoctrinated into the idea that the only proper investments are 30 year bonds and A share mutual funds, neither of which are ever appropriate to sell.

Morphius's picture
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Jonesness wrote:Morphious,
Thanks for your insight..you reinforced the direction I am going.  After my meeting with the wirehouse, I will be able to decide either them or indy, I need to set up an lpl and RJ meeting to see if they can assist in moving.  If I cannot find my contract tonight, the HR phone call will be the last thing I do before I quit.  Getting fired may still not be out of the question though.OK, even though you didn't specifically address the question of training costs in your answer I'm going to assume you have this liability since you're still implying it's an issue.  Several further points for you.As you interview with the wirehouse and the indy b/ds, make sure you ask up front about their absorbing any costs you may incur to leave EDJ.  Depending on your production they should certainly pick up those costs if you negotiate it.Second, I would not wait to ask for the contract as the last thing.  The information contained in there is too central to PLANNING what you want to do and when.  Otherwise it's 'ready, shoot, aim!'  If you ask for a copy well before a move things can cool down again before you actually do move.Finally, be very careful about this getting fired on purpose route.  The indys you mention are still b/ds and all file U5s when a rep leaves, so whatever they write is likely to follow you as a disclosure item on your U4 as long as you remain a registered rep.  Depending on exactly why you would be fired, this could also remain a disclosure item even if you go full RIA with no b/d.  This information is available not only to potential new b/ds, who may understand, but to the general public as well - who may be spooked away from you because of it.  I'd be VERY careful about considering that route if I were in your shoes.You moved once without doing your homework.  Don't make that same mistake again! 

Broker24's picture
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Jonesness wrote:
Spaceman,
I have been a broker for 13 years.  Got offered a nice office..I liked it  and took the position w/o researching the Jones philosophy. Already had my licenses.. had to do the classes along with seg 2,3. I'm scheduled for 4 class next month.  The issue was with options, as well as many many FSpends and PEND messeges..I blow an hour a day answering.. Everything I do is above board..but when I sell a stock in 2-30 days....I get hammered.
Buy and hold does not work for my advisement, so I need to go elsewhere.  Sorry about blowing steam..the client loss was just the final straw..
 
Seriously, how any FS do you have to answer in a week??
 
I get about one FSPend a month.  But as I think I mentioned once, I am really of the buy and hold, assett allocation philosphy, which happens to fit nicely with Jones.

Spaceman Spiff's picture
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EDJ4now wrote: ...so he hasn't been indoctrinated into the idea that the only proper investments are 30 year bonds and A share mutual funds, neither of which are ever appropriate to sell.
 
REALLY?!  Wow, I've heard some goofy things on this forum, but that one takes the cake.  Did you purposefully write that 30 year bonds and A share mutual funds are NEVER appropriate to sell?  I would guess then that C shares or fee based or ETFs are the ONLY way you do biz?

theironhorse's picture
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JONESNESS- I went to Jones fully licensed as well.  Brought some assets with me.  Left after 12-13 months.  Took 90% of my clients with me.  They did not say a word.  I even went through the 3 trips to Tempe for training.  As long as you came licensed you should be fine.

Jonesness's picture
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ironhorse, did you take over a significant office?  Did you have no training cost to worry about? WHat about the non-soliciate?  feel free to post or PM
thanks

Jonesness's picture
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EJ4now,
I had 1 or 2 trades to document for compliance A MONTH prior to EJ..I had no idea FS's are failed brokers..now I understand when they do not understand why!

Spaceman Spiff's picture
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That's a first, Jones FSD worrying about a trade that wasn't placed at EDJ.
 
In all fairness to the FSD's, not all of them are failed brokers.  There are some for sure.  Mine, however, has never been an advisor.  The ones who were FAs, in my experience, have been better than the ones who weren't.  The ones who weren't don't get it at all.  And you can't get them to see beyond what their guidelines say. 

Jonesness's picture
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As a Bank broker...Spiff!

EDJ4now's picture
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Spaceman Spiff wrote:EDJ4now wrote: ...so he hasn't been indoctrinated into the idea that the only proper investments are 30 year bonds and A share mutual funds, neither of which are ever appropriate to sell.
 
REALLY?!  Wow, I've heard some goofy things on this forum, but that one takes the cake.  Did you purposefully write that 30 year bonds and A share mutual funds are NEVER appropriate to sell?  I would guess then that C shares or fee based or ETFs are the ONLY way you do biz?
 
When I reread what I typed, I realized I wasn't clear.  I thought maybe it you would still understand what I meant, but apparently not, which is my fault. 
 
Spiff, what I meant was that IN THE EYES OF FS, it is never appropriate to EXIT a position in an A share or a 30 year bond, those investments are meant to be held forever.  Obviously I was exaggerating, but I think you get the idea.  FYI, I do think that 30 year bonds are rarely (although not never) in the client's best interest.  As for A shares, probably 50% of my business is A share mutual funds.
 
As for FS being failed brokers, that is a knock on the position in general, not just at EDJ.  However, my experience was that many of the FS reps at EDJ were under 35 and had a couple of years recent experience as an FA, and then they "decided that they would enjoy the compliance end of the business more," and were willing to take the massive paycut that was involved.  Frankly, I think my compliance officer is probably overpaid, but at least it is a legitimate career choice, whereas at EDJ it is more of a waypoint to something else.
 
 

Spaceman Spiff's picture
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I thought that statement sounded a little out there.  Especially for a former EDJ guy.  You are right.  FS believes that you should never, under any circumstances liquidate an A share position.  You should always do an internal exchange.  Well, I don't agree.  One thing I've learned about FS is that they don't give a rip about performance.  They only look at holding period and commissions paid.  I've sold the gains on some positions that the clients have held for 8-10 years and still have to answer the FSPend. 
 
The FSD position is a definitely a way in the door at the home office for an FA.  Probably because it pays pretty well.  For some guys I know that went there it was a raise.  I thought about that position years ago when I was still in the home office.  Back then they traveled a week a month doing branch audits.  I don't think they do anymore.  I don't really know that I'd enjoy sitting at a desk all day, talking to people about their trades, getting letters signed, having meetings, etc.   Wait...that's what I do now.  Maybe I'll have to revisit that position.

Broker7's picture
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Joined: 2007-02-23

Spiff, you would make a good FS.  You seem level headed.  Before I moved from Jones, I received alot of FSpnds,  a few asking why I moved funds from firm name to the fund company.   That is a red flag, if you indys know what I mean, but easy to answer.

Dark Knight's picture
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Don't forget, not making it as a FA does not correlate much to inteligence level.  All it means is that they are not good at Sales and/or working in front of people.
The knock may be that they don't have proper prior experience, but it doesn't mean they are incompentent.

EDJ4now's picture
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Dark Knight wrote:
Don't forget, not making it as a FA does not correlate much to inteligence level.  All it means is that they are not good at Sales and/or working in front of people.
The knock may be that they don't have proper prior experience, but it doesn't mean they are incompentent.
 
It frequently means an utter lack of an understanding of the sales experience.  The guy I have now is probably more intelligent than most FA's.  So much so, that he can spend an hour analyzing a $10,000 trade, and coming up with a half dozen questions that need answered by me via email (my version of FSPend).  The responses and follow up are always supposed to be the #1 priority, even if I have a full slate of appointments.  I get to it when I can, but I'll be damned if I'm going to drop everything just so he can check me off of his list.
 
He's a bright guy (maybe even smarter than me if that's possible ), but he couldn't sell a life preserver to a drowning man, at least not with examining every possible angle, weighing the pros and cons, etc., a process that would take longer to do than our poor hypothetical drowning man can keep his head above the water. 
 
Like I said, the FS problem is not just at Jones.  But at least with this guy they are intelligent questions, even if he does go overboard at times.

Broker64's picture
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Joined: 2008-02-07

I was terminated by EDJ. But since I "insist" on keeping my Series 7 (which by the way I had for years before starting with EDJ) they will NOT let the training costs drop. EDJ is very serious about these training costs, if you stay in the business even in a support role with your Series 7 they WIll come after you. Not a fun experience by a long shot. I wish I had never accepted the job with Edward Jones. A huge company, with tough lawyers equals a horrible experience.

yooper's picture
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Joined: 2008-03-27

Broker 64, How do you mean they will not let it drop? did they send you a letter for payment or was it a notice to appear in court? If they let you go i don't beleive they can successfully get the cost back in court especially if they did not pay for your license training. Something is missing here

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