Wardrobe....

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Stockjoc's picture
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Just a little topic about wardrobes. What does everyone suggestion to have as a "complete" wardrobe for the daily professional?

The Judge's picture
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While I'm no image consultant, consider the following as a litmus test: Dress in a manner that you would feel completely comfortable for your best client/prospect to come into your office, even if you aren't expecting them.
For me, that consists of conservative, well-fiitted suits.  IMO people WAY underestimate the importance of looking sharp and being in good shape; especially for this business.  How you present yourself tells your client/prospect a lot about you, even if it's on the subconscious level.  The last thing you want is a client to have the impression of "this person can't even take care of themselves.  How are they going to look after my money?"

WealthManager's picture
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The Judge wrote:
IMO people WAY underestimate the importance of looking sharp and being in good shape; especially for this business.  How you present yourself tells your client/prospect a lot about you, even if it's on the subconscious level. 
 
I completely agree with this.  Looking sharp is very important.  Just wearing a suit is not enough.  The suit should be of good quality and well fitted—ideally they should be custom.  This does not mean you should spend $2k a suit but take a pass on the $200 Macys special.   Check out the series of articles that WSJ ran during fashion week earlier this month.  In particular read “Word on the Street: Our Suit Field Test”.<?:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" />
 
             Now I have to work on getting myself back in shape.  There have been just too many of these “free” lunches at the lunch meetings.
 
--WM
 

san fran broker's picture
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Stockjoc wrote:Just a little topic about wardrobes. What does everyone suggestion to have as a "complete" wardrobe for the daily professional?
I think that a starting financial advisor should purchase three decent suits, one nice suit and one sport coat and slacks or for women, one more casual outfit. You also want to purchase two business casual outfits. At least one suit should be blue, and another grey.
Purchase clothes that are understated and tasteful; You want to look conservative to your prospects. Do not look flashy or decadent. Think Ralph Lauren.

san fran broker's picture
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WealthManager wrote:<?:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" />

             Now I have to work on getting myself back in shape.  There have been just too many of these “free” lunches at the lunch meetings.

Isn't that the truth. Build a daily exercise routine into your schedule rookies, or face the "freshman 15".

troll's picture
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san fran broker wrote:
Stockjoc wrote:Just a little topic about wardrobes. What does everyone suggestion to have as a "complete" wardrobe for the daily professional?
I think that a starting financial advisor should purchase three decent suits, one nice suit and one sport coat and slacks or for women, one more casual outfit. You also want to purchase two business casual outfits. At least one suit should be blue, and another grey.
Purchase clothes that are understated and tasteful; You want to look conservative to your prospects. Do not look flashy or decadent. Think Ralph Lauren.

 
But not the shirts with the logo 

JCadieux's picture
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Go for a custom (called "Made to Measure" in the trade) suit if you can afford it.  There is a big difference.If you're exceptionally big or tall, you should definitely get your suits made to measure.  Not only are they less expensive than high-end retail Big & Tall, but you can change your image from "big guy in a dumpy suit" to "prosperous".There are several custom tailors from Hong Kong who tour the US, taking measurements.  They eMail the measurements back to their shops in Hong Kong or Kowloon, where your suits or shirts are made.If you buy locally, you will benefit from multiple fittings.  But you will also pay three times as much.Cost of suits vary with the material you choose.  But for purpose of illustration:  A shirt in my size, french cuffs, custom made in sea island cotton costs $65 from these guys.  The same quality shirt costs over $120 off the shelf at Rochester.

FreedomLvr's picture
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I had never heard of getting the custom shirts from guys in Hong Kong until a friend told me about it.  Same story as Jeff:  Really, REALLY nice custom dress shirt, about $70.

Biasedrecruiter's picture
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Wealthy U.S. clients still love Brooks Brothers. It says old money!!! Also the shoes should be conservative. Forget the loafers unless it is business casual.
Need I say this? Take your shirts to the dry cleaners.

FreedomLvr's picture
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The dry cleaners just shrunk 3 of my shirts.  I need to find a nice sweat-shop.  THAT'S where you really get the quality!

peacock's picture
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Joined: 2004-12-09

it depends on where you are located.  I'm in rural usa and wearing dockers and a polo right now.  If I had on a suit, I'd look ridiculous. 

babbling looney's picture
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What color underwear are you wearing?     Just kidding.
I agree that a suit can look ridiculous in some areas of the country.  We have had this discussion before, but we should always try to look our best no matter if we are in the office or at the grocery store.
I usually wear either dressy skirt/jacket combos with heels, a dress with jacket or nice pants suits with heels when I am in the office.  But if I am going to meet someone at their place of business....it depends on what type of business and where I will be meeting them as to whether I will dress down.
I'm dressed down now with navy slacks, a raspberry rayon surplice top and navy heels.
Black...that's the answer

Biasedrecruiter's picture
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FreedomLvr wrote:The dry cleaners just shrunk 3 of my shirts.  I need to find a nice sweat-shop.  THAT'S where you really get the quality!
 
You could call Cathy Lee Gifford for a referral

Wildcat_02's picture
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Interesting topic.  A few thoughts...
I am personally coming from experience with two of the major i-banks, in a non-FA role, but now entering an FA role at another major i-bank/wirehouse (what-have-you).
In my first two positions, the attire was strictly business casual.  In my most recent position, we occasionally had client/prospect meetings in office, for which we wore a suit.  However, when the industry in general moved to "business casual" attire, it was due largely to the fact that people thought it made clients feel more comfortable.  I tend to agree with this.
Secondly, since I'm now moving to a "business formal" environment, I've been on the hunt for a few new suits.  I bought three in the past week (two today).  All three are what I would call pretty decent suits - as in, "I'm 26 and would be out of my mind to buy the $1200 Armani, therefore I bought some designer brands that were reasonably priced."  Jos. A Bank was the first stop, and I found a pretty good deal on a nice quality suit - all in all, it was on sale for about $200.  I found two others today at Macy's for a bit more each - a CK and a Michael Kors.
Personally, I see nothing wrong with buying the "Macy's special" - they tend to carry nice designers, as do most of the men's clothing stores.  When I'm a bit older and wiser, I'll start treating myself to the $800 Brooks Brothers suit, but right now, I see no justification in spending that kind of money on one suit.
To each their own, but you honestly cannot tell the difference between a $300 suit and a $700 suit, IMHO, unless your clients make a habit of grabbing the inside of your jacket to check the tag.    

troll's picture
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babbling looney wrote:What color underwear are you wearing?     Just kidding.
I agree that a suit can look ridiculous in some areas of the country.  We have had this discussion before, but we should always try to look our best no matter if we are in the office or at the grocery store.
I usually wear either dressy skirt/jacket combos with heels, a dress with jacket or nice pants suits with heels when I am in the office.  But if I am going to meet someone at their place of business....it depends on what type of business and where I will be meeting them as to whether I will dress down.
I'm dressed down now with navy slacks, a raspberry rayon surplice top and navy heels.
Black...that's the answerno golf shirts, right?

Indyone's picture
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joedabrkr wrote:no golf shirts, right?
...Joe's got a good memory...

babbling looney's picture
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Indyone wrote:
joedabrkr wrote:no golf shirts, right?
...Joe's got a good memory...

Correct. No golf  or polo shirts...ever.  However, a nicely fitted jersey knit type t shirt with a vee or scoop neckline is a much more tailored and flattering look for me.
Seriously, I  have no problem with business casual as long as men or women don't come off looking frumpy and rumpled.  I have seen some men who should not be wearing knitted shirts which show off their middle age spread.   Unlike our dear departed Put/NASD Newbie, I do think that it is acceptable to be out of uniform (Suit etc) occasionally and when appropriate to the location or event.

knucklehead's picture
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Middle, age, and spread are three words that just shouldn't be used in the same sentence.

san fran broker's picture
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I think that the key issue is dressing in a manner that makes your clients most comfortable.
Certainly, around here, people have become considerably more conservative in their dress in last few years, but it would be inappropriate to wear a suit for a "casual" meeting in Silicon Valley. By the same token, I think its appropriate to wear a suit for a "formal presentation".
Ultimately, clients are receptive to people who are "like them", so your guidelines should be based on the behavior of your clientele...

san fran broker's picture
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babbling looney wrote:
I usually wear either dressy skirt/jacket combos with heels, a dress with jacket or nice pants suits with heels when I am in the office.

I take it that you are a woman.
Important Note: Male rookies - do not wear high heels to work.

Soothsayer's picture
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One blue suit, one grey suit, one other conservative suit of some variation.  If I was a rookie or new to the business, Lands' End has some suiting separates that work OK.  They fit "off the rack", and you can order your own invividual waist and jacket size.  Then comes the important part.  Take your department store or catalog suit to a good tailor for a $20-25 nip-and-tuck.  Make sure your jacket sleeves are not too long, that there is not a big pucker in your waist, or worse yet, your pants are too tight or the rise too short.  Someone else said there is not much difference in a $300 suit or a $700 suit in the eyes of the client.  I agree.  What the client will notice is if your suit fits properly, and whether or not you appear comfortable in your new "skin".  So many people say that they hate to dress up because they are not comfortable.  If your clothes fit, you're comfortable.  If they don't, you're not.  Pretty simple.  You are going to be putting in some long days, so you may as well be practical and comfortable.  After you make a few bucks, then start building your custom inventory.  I say always spend the few extra dollars for features like tick-stitched lapels, prepared surgeon cuffs, custom lining, custom buttons, and maybe the addition of an added ticket pocket that will really make you stand out.  When you get to the custom level, remember what profession you are in.  You are not a high-profile defense attorney or a pimp.  Make the appropriate custom choices, and view each purchase as an investment in yourself and your career.
Next is shirts.  Again, the most important thing is the fit, not necessarily the look or style.  If you are really heavy, really thin, very tall, or have a long or short torso then probably go custom right out of the gate.  Make sure the sleeves are long enough, but not too long.  (It should cover your wrist bone when you bend your elbow.)  Another rule while I'm on a rant.  The word "short sleeve dress shirt" is an oxymoron.  Write that down rookies!  Make sure the neck fits.  Too tight, and you're not comfortable.  Too loose, and you look like you should be selling appliances.  It may sound over picky, but you can also choose a collar style that fits your build.  If you're thin, think about a tab collar.  If you're heavy, don't wear a tab or button down.  Instead think about a spread collar, or two button straight collar that gives a little more room without accentuating your neck roll.  I really like the no-iron shirts from JosABanks and Brooks Brothers.  You'll be sitting down alot, and they really resist wrinkling, and look great all day.  Plus, you can launder them at home.  Remember to always pre-spray your shirts for ring around the collar.  Nothing looks worse than a white shirt with a dirty collar. 
Next item is the shoes.  Get a good pair of conservative, comfortable, black oxfords.  As they say in the Army, "If your feet aren't happy, then you're miserable."  I'm partial to Allen Edmonds.  Made in America, wear like iron.  NO LOAFERS!  NO SLIP-ONS!  When you wear a suit in this business, your shoes should have laces!  That is Rule #2 in this rant.  Write it down rookies.  Keep your shoes polished, and as soon as you can afford it, buy another pair.  Maybe brown this time.  Keep going until you have 3-4 pair of very good shoes.  If you wear them 1-2 times a week, and get them re-heeled and re-soled when necessary, they will last you 8-10 years.  That's why I said to stay conservative.  You don't want your $395 shoes that fit your foot like a glove to go out of style. 
Finally is the accessories.  Get your crayons out again, rookies.  Here is Rule #3.  Brown shoes=brown belt=brown watch.  Black shoes=black belt=black watch.  If you have a metal watch, great.  No golf bracelets, no tennis bracelets, no 18K gold.  No pinky rings.  No tie tacks, no tie chains.  No collar bars.  Always wear a T-shirt.  Stay with repp stripes and neat patters on your neckwear.  Cheap ties look cheap, and don't look as good when they are knotted.  Finally, get an acceptable leather breifcase.  Now, you're ready to start looking for clients.      

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soothsayer - good points!
Also, got a kick out of the "pinky ring" comment.  I used to work in private equity, and there's a book out called "Buyout" - it's all about management buyouts and serves as a "how-to" on taking charge at your company/dream of running you're own business.
A funny quote the author makes is - never trust a guy with a pinky ring or someone that has a mounted fish in his office.

troll's picture
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babbling looney wrote:Indyone wrote:
joedabrkr wrote:no golf shirts, right?
...Joe's got a good memory...

Correct. No golf  or polo shirts...ever.  However, a nicely fitted jersey knit type t shirt with a vee or scoop neckline is a much more tailored and flattering look for me.
Seriously, I  have no problem with business casual as long as men or women don't come off looking frumpy and rumpled.  I have seen some men who should not be wearing knitted shirts which show off their middle age spread.   Unlike our dear departed Put/NASD Newbie, I do think that it is acceptable to be out of uniform (Suit etc) occasionally and when appropriate to the location or event.I think you need to post some pictures so we can get a better idea what you're talking about....

troll's picture
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joedabrkr wrote: babbling looney wrote:Indyone wrote:
joedabrkr wrote:no golf shirts, right?
...Joe's got a good memory...

Correct. No golf  or polo shirts...ever.  However, a nicely fitted jersey knit type t shirt with a vee or scoop neckline is a much more tailored and flattering look for me.
Seriously, I  have no problem with business casual as long as men or women don't come off looking frumpy and rumpled.  I have seen some men who should not be wearing knitted shirts which show off their middle age spread.   Unlike our dear departed Put/NASD Newbie, I do think that it is acceptable to be out of uniform (Suit etc) occasionally and when appropriate to the location or event.
I think you need to post some pictures so we can get a better idea what you're talking about....
Excellent idea...
 

rockstar1's picture
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Call your local Tom James guy (the Ed Jones of the suit business) and let him tell you. I just started to buy suits from my guy and let me tell you, there's no going back. They have some killer wardrobe deals. They come right to your office. Everything is custom made. Price is reasonable. Your name is embroidered in every suit jacket. Your shirts actually fit because they are custom made. Good stuff.
RS

bankwannabe's picture
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Whatever you do, I am begging you...don't wear suspenders.  It is the ultimate cliche in regards to clothing in the brokerage business.  When I was at Merrill there was this snarling, B-share shoveling broker that wore suspenders every single day.  The kind of guy that smokes too much, is overweight, and drives a 1995 3-series.  I used to stay late and pound the phones, and he would have his kids in the office, running around screaming like total maniacs (clearly starved of any attention).  Needless to say I will forever associate brokers in suspenders with dirtbags.  Keep it simple like the other guys said -

Helter Skelter's picture
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...and if you DO wear suspenders, do NOT wear them with a belt.

aldo63's picture
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were  a suit until you make it. Also, wear one during an inital meeting or presentation out of the office.  once you "make it" wear whatever you want.
you know your clients and they really do not care what you wear once they know you. Some clients would rather know you invest your money than spend it on a depreciating asset, a suit.
 

Soothsayer's picture
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Helter Skelter wrote:...and if you DO wear suspenders, do NOT wear them with a belt.
Otherwise, clients may think you are overly pessimistic.

JCadieux's picture
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The following advice applies to men only.  Frankly, I have never had to counsul a woman in this business on how to dress.  But it shocks me how clueless some men are.

  • First of all, it is better to look bad than to smell bad.
  • Realize that recruiters, executives and business owners can spot a cheap suit from miles away.
  • Your wardrobe should say "success".  A cheap suit just tells clients "they make me wear a uniform".
  • The most important feature of a suit is its fit.  Number two is the quality of the material.  Nobody will ever see the label.
  • If you have no alternative, it is better to dress in sharp, upscale business casual than to wear a bad suit.
  • Find a good Hong Kong tailor who travels to the US for fittings.  (see my post above).
  • If you must buy off the rack, do not let the salesman mark you up for alterations.  Ask if the tailor can "chalk you up".  If the tailor is not there, then come back when they are available.
  • Learn something about color.  If you don't know whether you have
    "winter", "spring", "summer" or "fall" coloration then you are not
    qualified to dress yourself.  If you are unsure what this means,
    then ask a well-dressed professional woman what colors look best on you.  She'll be flattered you asked, and you might get a date out of it.
  • You only need one pair of dress shoes: high quality black wingtips.  I reccommend Johnson & Murphy, since they are good value for the money.
  • Never wear high top wing tips unless you are British.  Never wear anything polyester unless you're allergic to wool.  Never wear a clip-on tie unless you work with heavy machinery.
  • You can get away with a bold shirt or a bold tie if you really know what you're doing.  Very few people can get away with both at the same time.
  • The best shirt-collar style for you is dictated by the shape of your face and the length of your neck.  If you are unsure then get a current copy of Dress for Success, ask a tailor you trust, or ask any experienced salesperson at Nordstrom's.
  • Do not wear double breasted suits unless you are over 50, over 250lbs or play a character on The West Wing.
  • Do not wear three-button suits unless you are over 6'1" tall.  Do not have cuffs put on your slacks if you are short.
  • It's worth saying again: it is better to look bad than to smell bad.
Soothsayer's picture
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I will agree with everything in the above post except


  • Johnston & Murphy shoes are no longer made in the United States.  They are nothing more than overpriced, over-marked-up made in China crap with a designer name sold in department stores by college kids and flunkies.  Go to a real mens' store and get a pair of Allen Edmonds.  They are a few bucks more, made in the United States (Wisconsin), and a superior product to the J & M.  I took my last pair of J & M back to where I bought them, and asked for a refund.  When they wouldn't give me one, I left the shoes on the counter.  They said, "You forgot your shoes."  I said, "I don't want them.  Period."

  • Wingtips are a little bit "old guy".  If your are less than 45, and have any sense of style, go with an oxford.

bankrep1's picture
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I am wondering about the 3 button comment. I a 5'11 and look way better in a 3 button then a 2 button suit I always ask the women in the stores they agree 100%.

Wildcat_02's picture
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bankrep - amen to that!  I am the same height and ALL my suits are 3-button.  I honestly don't even like 2-button suits.  I think the 3-button fits better and has more of a fashionnable look. 

JCadieux's picture
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I sold suits to put myself through college.Actually, the two or three button decision is a matter of torso length relative to leg length.  The 6'1" number is just a rule of thumb.If you're "all legs" and want to lengthen your torso, then a three button suit will help you do that.  But if you're of regular proportions, then it will make you look out of balance.I'll bet that Bankrep and Wildcat are thin with long legs.

JCadieux's picture
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Soothsayer wrote:Johnston & Murphy shoes are no longer made in the United States.  They are nothing more than overpriced, over-marked-up made in China crap with a designer name sold in department stores by college kids and flunkies.  Go to a real mens' store and get a pair of Allen Edmonds.  They are a few bucks more, made in the United States (Wisconsin), and a superior product to the J & M.Truthfully, I haven't bought a pair from them in the past two years.  I no longer wear wingtips on a daily basis (recruiters work from home), and they no longer carry my width in casual shoes.   Perhaps they've changed since I last purchased from them.  And I was not aware that they offshored their factory.In that case, I'll bow to Soothsayer's more recent knowledge.

Wildcat_02's picture
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Jeff, I'm about 5'11", 165/170 lbs or so, but I don't feel I have what you would call long legs - probably about average or so. 
Question, how many suits do you recommend owning (i.e., at what point does it get a bit "out of hand").  Personally, I have five now and a sports jacket (which my firm doesn't seem to even want you to wear, especially for the rookies - they just recommend suits every day all year round). 

JCadieux's picture
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Wildcat_02 wrote:Jeff, I'm about 5'11", 165/170 lbs or so, but I don't feel I have what you would call long legs - probably about average or so. 
Question, how many suits do you recommend owning (i.e., at what point does it get a bit "out of hand").  Personally, I have five now and a sports jacket (which my firm doesn't seem to even want you to wear, especially for the rookies - they just recommend suits every day all year round).  Well, you said earlier that the three-button seems to 'fit better'.  That's what gave me the impression that you're high waisted.A good tailor can help you find two buttons that fit.  But is sounds like you're happy with the style, too.  My message was mostly aimed at people who look "out of balance" in a three button suit.  For example, former President George W Bush would look fine in a three button.  But current President George HW Bush would look short and out of blance.I'm pretty sure that John Goodman is over 6'1", and he'd look rediculous in a three-button suit.I'm roughly 6' and big.  I have short legs and a long torso, so I'd look way out of balance in a three button suit.  Back when I wore suits on a regular basis, I wore double-breasted suits to make my torso look more proportionate.How many suits?  Five is enough, assuming that they are all in good condition.  Resist the urge to get different colors and cuts for the sake of variety.  Just buy what looks good on you in subtle variations, then dress it up with shirt, tie and accessories.If you can afford more, then start replacing your older suits with better quality.I haven't been in the trade for nearly 20 years, and the workplace rules on sportscoats have changed.  Personally, I would avoid them at work unless it's part of a business casual outfit.  NEVER wear a sportscoat to an interview, unless the interview is an informal social occasion  (such as drinks with the team after office hours).

babbling looney's picture
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Maybe THIS can be the answer to those pesky fashion conundrums you guys have been talking about.
http://klosk.myshopify.com/
And I thought only women had stupid fashion ideas.

Greenbacks's picture
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I live in a small CO ski town and I can tell you if you wear a suite everyone will know you are not a local! The American funds whole saler stopped wearing suites up here. He got tied of the comments and it is there company policy to wear suites! The other whole salers still do not get it!

Helter Skelter's picture
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The only people who wear suits in my office are the one's that had a funeral to attend before they came in.

troll's picture
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I am 5' 2" about 255 lbs.  Do you think a three button suit would look good on me?

bankrep1's picture
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I don't think anything looks "good" on you except maybe a santa outfit.

dude's picture
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joedabrkr wrote:I am 5' 2" about 255 lbs.  Do you think a three button suit would look good on me?
You're a dandy.

Helter Skelter's picture
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joedabrkr wrote:I am 5' 2" about 255 lbs.  Do you think a three button suit would look good on me?
I think a Doberman would look good on you.

troll's picture
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dude wrote:joedabrkr wrote:I am 5' 2" about 255 lbs.  Do you think a three button suit would look good on me?
You're a dandy.Thanks.  I look so much better since I did that Atkins thingie and lost 62 1/2 pounds.  I'm so svelte now!!

troll's picture
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Helter Skelter wrote:joedabrkr wrote:I am 5' 2" about 255 lbs.  Do you think a three button suit would look good on me?
I think a Doberman would look good on you. bite me

ezmoney's picture
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Hey Joe, you have the dimensions of a refridgerator!

troll's picture
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ezmoney wrote:Hey Joe, you have the dimensions of a refridgerator!"refridgerator"does that look right to you?(sorry couldn't resist!)

ezmoney's picture
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no i thunk not, however I had plenty to drink last night.

dude's picture
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joedabrkr wrote: Helter Skelter wrote:
joedabrkr wrote:I am 5' 2" about 255 lbs.  Do you think a three button suit would look good on me?
I think a Doberman would look good on you.
bite me
That's clever, I like clever.

Helter Skelter's picture
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dude wrote:joedabrkr wrote: Helter Skelter wrote:
joedabrkr wrote:I am 5' 2" about 255 lbs.  Do you think a three button suit would look good on me?
I think a Doberman would look good on you.
bite me
That's clever, I like clever.

"Bite me" is clever?

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