Quite frankly, Mike Brown, you f**ked up!

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skeedaddy's picture
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Here's a guy who obviously married into the right family. Poor fellow, let
him get back to hugging /walking his dog.

Padded his resume and was totally in over his head. He'll be selling real
estate in his hometown next week. Might even make more money than most
of us on this thread.

Not a good reflection on "W". Not a good reflection on Americans who voted
him into office. Thanks again, to the great state of Ohio.

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Did you vote for GORE and do you hate bush?
During any incident people in the area respond. Then one calls for help and the first responders or local police and fire departments respond. LOCAL COMMUNITY RESPONDS 
If they can not handle the situation they call other fire/police departments.  LOCAL LEVEL
If they can not handle the situation then the Governor utilizes their state national guard. STATE LEVEL (when did this happen?)
If the state can not handle it they can request help from other states. STATE LEVEL
At this point it is probable that the DOD or federal government would be active since all military members are part of the total force.
I am in Alabama now and the evacuees from Mississippi and LA have high hopes. They state "god is with them and they are alive." There are Red Cross stations over a 300 mile radius from New Orleans.
Driving through Pensacola I saw a large station handing out food and water. At the hotels, which are filled with LA/MS evacuees people say they will rebuild and New Orleans will be better. Obviously some dont know what they are going back to and thay have serious challenges ahead.
Listening to Pensacola, Florida (IVAN veterans) they stressed that FEMA is not nor has it ever been a complete first responder. They arrived 3 days after IVAN and did what they could, but the community/state had a plan and implemented it successfully.

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Also the DOD can not send an army into a city without local approval/request.
 

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Federal Emergency Management Agency (F.E.M.A.) kinda says it all.

If you are debating that a second tier Law Clerk is qualified as a Presidential
appointment to head a federal emergency response effort, then one of us
needs a breathalizer test.

You need to hang up your turkey shooter for a second and consider the
facts.

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Skeedaddy- Good post. The simple fact is that Daddy Bush and Uncle Cheney told him to appoint a guy whose idea of emergency management was how to get the horse poop out of the arena that he was responsible for. Leadership continues to be exhibited by W. Thanks.....

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noggin wrote:Skeedaddy- Good post. The simple fact is that Daddy Bush and Uncle Cheney told him to appoint a guy whose idea of emergency management was how to get the horse poop out of the arena that he was responsible for. Leadership continues to be exhibited by W. Thanks.....
Let's be serious for a minute. Brown did just fine and dandy last year in <?:namespace prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" />Florida when they were hit by 3 major storms in 6 or so weeks. Perhaps it's because he didn't have to deal with abject failures like the Mayor of New Orleans and the Gov of LA. Brown also went through a Senate confirmation with the Democrats running the show at the time and he served as the General Council for FEMA before he took over. <?:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" />
Brown became a lightening rod because the Feds seemed slow BUT it was the Mayor who didn’t evacuate people when asked (24 hours after every other local government did) and then put poor people at the Superdome with no food, no water and no security to stop anarchy from breaking out. It was the Governor of Louisiana that refused to allow the Red Cross in the Superdome to help people trapped there and refused to allow National Guard troops from other states to help out. She also refused to allow for a single command of the various NG units in New Orleans.
Had the locals not made a monumental screw-up of the situation during the first 24-72 hours that they were responsible for you wouldn’t have heard a peep about FEMA’s response from anyone.
 

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Do you work for the government? Do you know how people are promoted and hired? I have limited experience and its crazy. I dont see how the president can control every position at every level. Now of course FEMA is important, but they are not a first responder. Even the mayor admitted today that "if he would have known it would take over 2-3 days."Now everyone is taking blame for their defaults. The problem is an area the size of Great Britian was destroyed!!! No matter what was done differently there was only so much that could have been done.
I love how experts who have never worked at any level of the government responce system know everything. I guess its just like the smart political science student who knows more about war then the generals with 40 years experience. Life is great and may those who dont know shi. state the most bs.

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I love how a "leader" hires a perfect nimcompoop and somehow the people that love this leader have to attack everything around this guy. Tell me why Brown was a good hire for FEMA? Was it his resume? Was it his experience? What was it??????

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Bush has nominated some good people. I think General Powell,
Rumsfeld, Gutierrez , Snow and now Roberts.

As far as I'm concerned, he has made a couple of critical errors. 1. Iraq
2. Spending more than a 14 year old girl in a shopping mall. Republicans
have always been in favor of a small government and fiscal discipline.
Bush is spending money we don't have and running up the biggest deficit
in our history.

Having said that, today another 100+ people were killed in Iraq. I'm sick
and tired of this nonsense. Let our boys do the job and get them home.
Doesn't Iraq have a newly elected government already? Let them fend for
themselves already.

We had to borrow Blackhawk helicopters from Mexico to assist in
Katrina's rescue. Come on from Mexico?

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noggin wrote:I love how a "leader" hires a perfect nimcompoop and somehow the people that love this leader have to attack everything around this guy. Tell me why Brown was a good hire for FEMA? Was it his resume? Was it his experience? What was it??????
Sounds to me like you attacked Brown and the facts were pointed out to you. It's funny how there were massive failures at the city and state level, the people responsible as planners an first responders but the guy that gets attacked over it all is the one that's not even supposed to be on the gorund helping for 72 hours.
Could it be the purpose behind the attacks had little if anything to do with the situation but were only all about hating Bush?

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"As far as I'm concerned, he has made a couple of critical errors. 1. Iraq "
What would you have done as president after 9/11 if every intelligence agency in the world said Saddam had WMD and terrorist pals that wanted to use them here?
"2. Spending more than a 14 year old girl in a shopping mall. "
Go on and tell me how Democrats would have spent less.
 
 
"Having said that, today another 100+ people were killed in Iraq. I'm sick and tired of this nonsense. Let our boys do the job and get them home. "
Who's stopping them from doing their job?
"Doesn't Iraq have a newly elected government already? Let them fend for themselves already. "
You mean bring them home before the Iraqis can defend themselves and allow the palce to become an even bigger problem as terrorists move and and take over?
"We had to borrow Blackhawk helicopters from Mexico to assist in Katrina's rescue. Come on from Mexico? "
Where'd you hear that?

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I'm not full of sh*t if that's what your suggesting. In fact, I'm attaching a picture taken by US Naval Officers of Mexican Marines in Biloxi.  I couldn't find a picture of a "Mexican Blackhawk" but I think this makes my point that our military assets and personnel are streched too thin. 
www.news.navy.mil
 

Image:   050912-N-6925C-005.jpg

 

 

 Description:   President George W. Bush conveys his gratitude to a marine from the Federal Republic of Mexico, on their clean up efforts.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Download HiRes More Photos

 

050912-N-6925C-005 Gulfport, Miss. (Sept. 12, 2005) - President George W. Bush conveys his gratitude to a marine from the Federal Republic of Mexico, on their clean up efforts at 28 Street Elementary School in Biloxi, Miss. President Bush is currently visiting the Gulf Coast region to assess the damage and disaster recovery efforts from Hurricane Katrina. The Mexican Navy is assisting the U.S. Navy in providing humanitarian assistance to victims of Hurricane Katrina. The Navy's involvement in the humanitarian assistance operations are being led by the Federal Emergency Management Agency (FEMA), in conjunction with the Department of Defense. U.S. Navy photo by Senior Chief Photographer's Mate Thomas Coffelt (RELEASED)

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skeedaddy2 wrote:
I'm not full of sh*t if that's what your suggesting. In fact, I'm attaching a picture taken by US Naval Officers of Mexican Marines in Biloxi.  I couldn't find a picture of a "Mexican Blackhawk" but I think this makes my point that our military assets and personnel are streched too thin. 
www.news.navy.mil

 
https://navcms.news.navy.mil/search/display.asp?story_id=200 26
The 75 Mexican marines arrived Sept. 8 via U.S. Landing Craft, Utility (LCU), and Dutch Sailors were transported via a U.S. Landing Craft, Air Cushion (LCAC). Both the Mexican and Dutch militaries have ships operating in the Gulf of Mexico in support of the ongoing hurricane relief effort.
Your comment caught my interest because I didn't think the Mexican military had Blackhawks. I still don't think they have any. I think you misunderstood the size and scope of the Mexican (and Dutch, which you didn't mention) effort.
We didn't "borrow" anything from them and we wouldn't need to. They offered manpower. Would you have prefered that we refuse their help? There's nothing going on in LA or MS that speaks to a our military being stretched too thin.
That line was used right after the hurricane when critics said we didn't have enough military there because they were in Iraq. That proved to be false (less than 30% of the LA Guard is in Iraq, less than 15% of our total military) as did the claims that the levee broke due to Bush budget cuts.

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There not being spread too thin makes their lack of presence in the affected areas even more pathetic.

menotellname's picture
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Mr. Butler...you are getting "owned" all over the place. 
 
This is funny.

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Mike: were you at all surprised to hear about the Mexican marines
involved in Biloxi? Or were you more interested in correcting my comment
about Blackhawks, specifically? I can't tell.

Anyway, I hate long posts but I feel stongly about this one. Here's the
third critical error that Bush has committed IMO:

(BTW, I'm a registered Republican and did vote for Bush.)

The Bush administration asked a federal claims court on November 26,
2002 to seal documents relating to hundreds of cases of autism allegedly
caused by a mercury-based preservative, thimerosal, used in childhood
vaccines.

The government’s legal action comes on the heels of an insertion into the
Homeland Security bill (ABOUT 1 HOUR BEFORE THE BILL WENT TO THE
SENATE) that protects Eli Lilly, the drug company giant that
developed thimerosal, from lawsuits involving the additive. The bill
removes all liability from the pharmaceutical industry and health officials
for the injuries and death resulting from the preservative.

He asked a retiring Republican Senator, whose name escapes me now, to
propose this last minute article to the Bill. He chose this retiring Senator
to do this dirty deed because the Senator wouldn't have to face re-
election and took the bullet for the "team".

The connections between the Bush administration and the pharmaceutical
company are extensive. Eli Lilly’s chairman and CEO, Sidney Taurel, was
recently given a seat on the president’s Advisory Council on Homeland
Security and Mitch Daniels, former president of Lilly’s North American
operations, is currently the White House budget director. Former
president George Bush sat on Eli Lilly’s board of directors.

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SonnyClips wrote:There not being spread too thin makes their lack of presence in the affected areas even more pathetic.
Are you saying the Feds should simply have taken control from the locals, the law be damned?

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“Mike: were you at all surprised to hear about the Mexican marines involved in Biloxi? Or were you more interested in correcting my comment about Blackhawks, specifically? I can't tell.”<?:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" />
 
Your claim that we “had to borrow” helicopters the Mexicans don’t even have send up my BS detector. As it turned out the situation wasn’t anywhere near what you claimed. ”The Bush administration asked a federal claims court on November 26, 2002 to seal documents relating to hundreds of cases of autism allegedly caused by a mercury-based preservative, thimerosal, used in childhood vaccines.”
 
We’re not going down the road with RFK Jr that thimerosal causes childhood autism despite all the evidence to the contrary, are we? It’s junk science at it’s worst.
 
Try this one for size. Canada ended the use of thimerosal in all vaccines over a decade ago. Guess how that effected their childhood autism rates? Not one tiny bit.
 
We can’t have the conspiracy loons and the trial lawyers run vaccine makers out of business with the sort of bogus lawsuits used against the makers of breast implants. You need to get your news somewhere other than Buzzflash…….
 

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relating to hundreds of cases of autism allegedly caused by a mercury-based preservative, thimerosal, used in childhood vaccines.
There is no credible evidence that vaccines to prevent otherwise communiciable and serious diseases causes autism 
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/05/18/health/main618142. shtml
The protection from frivulous (sp?) and unfounded lawsuits for the drug companies is also to protect the rest of us by allowing vaccines to be produced in adequate quantities and at reasonable prices.  An example of the damage that can be done by these types of lawsuits is shown in the lack of this years flu vaccine supply.     http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/10/05/health/main647481. shtml
Because of costly lawsuits companies in the US have declined that produce vaccines.  According to the above article there were 24 comanies producing 20 years ago and now there are only two, one of which was shut down because of problems in their European plant.  One company is not enough to supply the world with vaccines. Companies are NOT going to put their heads on a legal chopping block and lose money when they can avoid lawsuits by NOT producing certain products.  As an investment advisor, who I assume sells stocks as well, you should understand this relationship between profit, lawsuits and government protection from lawsuits.  It really has nothing to do with some sort of evil plan by Bush and Satan, oops I mean Carl Rove.  It is purely good economic and public health policy to pass legistation that encourages the production of vaccines that can save millions of lives. 
If it does turn out that a small percentage of children develop autism (which I believe is pure bull) then that can be considered acceptable losses when compared to millions of others who are helped and saved.
The connections between the Bush administration and the pharmaceutical company are extensive. Eli Lilly’s chairman and CEO, Sidney Taurel, was recently given a seat on the president’s Advisory Council on Homeland Security and Mitch Daniels, former president of Lilly’s North American operations, is currently the White House budget director. Former president George Bush sat on Eli Lilly’s board of directors.
So effing what? It means that they understand the dynamics of the production of drugs much better than some political hack who wants to curry favor with the lastest bleeding heart cause d'jour.
When and if the big bird flu epidemic occurs which is expected to have a 50% mortality, I hope to hell we have vaccines available and that production wasn't held up by a bunch of lawsuits. This isn't just about politics and whether you like GBush. It is about people's lives.

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"The connections between the Bush administration and the pharmaceutical company are extensive. Eli Lilly’s chairman and CEO, Sidney Taurel, was recently given a seat on the president’s Advisory Council on Homeland Security and Mitch Daniels, former president of Lilly’s North American operations, is currently the White House budget director. Former president George Bush sat on Eli Lilly’s board of directors."
Uh...Mitch Daniels is currently governor of Indiana...y'all need to do more fact checking when you speak with such authority.
Let's send in some more of them Mexican Blackhawks...

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Mikebutler- I asked very simple questions and you couldn't answer them so you did what any 6th grader does you attacked my viewpoint. I will repeat my questions again so that you can ignore them again. Why was Mike Brown a good hire? Was it is glowing resume? Was it his experience??? BTW, I voted for both Reagan and Bush.......

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noggin wrote:Mikebutler- I asked very simple questions and you couldn't answer them so you did what any 6th grader does you attacked my viewpoint. I will repeat my questions again so that you can ignore them again. Why was Mike Brown a good hire? Was it is glowing resume? Was it his experience??? BTW, I voted for both Reagan and Bush.......
Let's see, after every ranting post you've made has been proved to be incorrect, you now think it's important to probe the resume of the former head of FEMA.
This may be news to you but patronage has been a part of our political system forever. For whatever holes you think there may or may not have been in Brown's background the fact is he handled 3 hurricanes in the span of 6 weeks or so in Florida last year w/o major problems.
Katrina turned into a nightmare and the question should be what caused the response to the storms to be so different between Florida and LA. The answer's pretty clear to me. Brown was in both situations, but in Florida the local officials weren't clueless as they were in LA.
Say, when we borrowed those Mexican Blackhawks, did the pilots speak English?

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Indyone: you're correct, Mitch Daniels is not the current budget
director...HE WAS!

The Bush Administration

Mitch Daniels, Jr.
DIRECTOR, OFFICE OF MANAGEMENT AND BUDGET
(2001-2002)

Corporate Connections:
Eli Lilly; Citigroup; General Electric; Merck

Personal Finances

Mitch Daniels served as director of the Office of Management and Budget
from 2001 to 2002, when he stepped down to run for governor of
Indiana. He is a former senior vice president at Eli Lilly, one of the world’s
leading pharmaceutical companies. At the time of his appointment as
OMB director, Daniels also had stock holdings of between $50,000 and
$100,000 in Citigroup, General Electric and another drug company,
Merck.

My mistake for not editing more accurately. No question, any one of us
can hold our own in a debate. This is better than Hannity & Colmes.

Never the less, my point is that the Bush administration has had its share
of questionable dealings and I, as an American, have every right to
question, comment and hold him accountable.

I admit that I am less than satisfied with the whole thing even though I
admit that he has been dealt a pretty tough hand (stock market bubble,
9/11, Katrina, etc).   

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"Never the less, my point is that the Bush administration has had its share of questionable dealings and I, as an American, have every right to question, comment and hold him accountable. "
 
Fair enough, and I'm sure you'd agree that we have every right to point out where we think that with the proper knowledge of the facts the events are far less "questionable" than you might suggest.

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mikebutler222 wrote:
"Never the less, my point is that the Bush administration has had its share of questionable dealings and I, as an American, have every right to question, comment and hold him accountable. "
 
Fair enough, and I'm sure you'd agree that we have every right to point out where we think that with the proper knowledge of the facts the events are far less "questionable" than you might suggest.

 
Mike Brown and President Bush took control of the situation on August 29th by declaring federal jurisdiction upon naming Katrina a federal disaster.
http://www.fema.gov/news/newsrelease.fema?id=18478
 
Any questions?

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menotellname wrote:mikebutler222 wrote:
"Never the less, my point is that the Bush administration has had its share of questionable dealings and I, as an American, have every right to question, comment and hold him accountable. "
 
Fair enough, and I'm sure you'd agree that we have every right to point out where we think that with the proper knowledge of the facts the events are far less "questionable" than you might suggest.

 
Mike Brown and President Bush took control of the situation on August 29th by declaring federal jurisdiction upon naming Katrina a federal disaster.
http://www.fema.gov/news/newsrelease.fema?id=18478
 
Any questions?

Just one, just how clueless are you? READ YOUR OWN LINK, it says the the declaraion JUST BEGINS FUNDING. PAYING THE LOCALS FOR COSTS ATTRIBUTED TO THE STORM AND EVACUATION. It DOES NOT SAY that the Feds have taken over on the ground.
Either you're a fool or a liar. Then again, you're probably both.

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But their religious faith has been strengthened, eight in 10 said. And 90 percent were hopeful about the future.
The evacuees polled, all from New Orleans or elsewhere in Louisiana, also said:
_More than half of their homes were destroyed. Two-thirds were renting their homes and a third were owners.
_Almost three-fourths don't have insurance to cover their losses.
_More than half didn't have health insurance, a usable credit card with them, or a bank or checking account from which they could withdraw money.
_Nearly three-fourths heard before the hurricane hit that an evacuation order had been given; a fourth did not.
_More than two-thirds said they didn't evacuate because they didn't realize how bad the storm and its aftermath would be. More than half — 55 percent — said one factor was that they didn't have a car or a way to leave.
 
A responsible bunch of Americans who love god. :)

Anonymous's picture
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Look what the religious right is saying now. http://gopandgod.blogspot.com/

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mikebutler222 wrote:menotellname wrote:mikebutler222 wrote:
"Never the less, my point is that the Bush administration has had its share of questionable dealings and I, as an American, have every right to question, comment and hold him accountable. "
 
Fair enough, and I'm sure you'd agree that we have every right to point out where we think that with the proper knowledge of the facts the events are far less "questionable" than you might suggest.

 
Mike Brown and President Bush took control of the situation on August 29th by declaring federal jurisdiction upon naming Katrina a federal disaster.
http://www.fema.gov/news/newsrelease.fema?id=18478
 
Any questions?

Just one, just how clueless are you? READ YOUR OWN LINK, it says the the declaraion JUST BEGINS FUNDING. PAYING THE LOCALS FOR COSTS ATTRIBUTED TO THE STORM AND EVACUATION. It DOES NOT SAY that the Feds have taken over on the ground.
Either you're a fool or a liar. Then again, you're probably both.

Obviously you didn't read the link.  I will break it down for you, Mike.  Federal emergency declared on 8/27.  Then the TITLE OF THE PRESS RELEASE FROM FEMA says "President Declares Major Disaster For Louisiana".  The President declared this a federal disaster.  That means the feds are in charge (see below).
Any questions?
****************************************************
President Declares Major Disaster For Louisiana

Release Date: August 29, 2005Release Number: HQ-05-179

» More Information on Louisiana Hurricane Katrina
WASHINGTON, D.C. -- The head of the U.S. Department of Homeland Security’s Federal Emergency Management Agency (FEMA) announced today that federal disaster aid has been made available to the state of Louisiana to help residents and communities recover from the damages and losses incurred from the onslaught of Hurricane Katrina.
Michael D. Brown, Under Secretary of Homeland Security for Emergency Preparedness and Response, said the assistance was authorized under a major disaster declaration issued for the state by President Bush. The declaration covers damage to private and public property from Hurricane Katrina that occurred beginning August 29, 2005 and continuing.
The action follows the President's emergency declaration of August 27 that released federal resources to help meet immediate life-saving and life-sustaining human needs and protecting property in addition to other emergency protective measures. Debris removal and emergency services to assist law enforcement with evacuations and establishment of shelters are also eligible costs covered by the federal funding.
****************************************************
Better still...for a dumbass like you, Mike.  The last paragraph reads:
"
FEMA prepares the nation for all hazards and manages federal response and recovery efforts following any national incident. FEMA also initiates mitigation activities, trains first responders, works with state and local emergency managers, and manages the National Flood Insurance Program and the U.S. Fire Administration. FEMA became part of the U.S. Department of Homeland Security on March 1, 2003."
****************************************************
Any questions as to who had responsibility and who dropped the ball?  Remember...this is from the FEMA website and your boy made FEMA part of his pet project...the U.S. Department of Homeland Security.
Your serve...

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menotellname wrote:mikebutler222 wrote:menotellname wrote:mikebutler222 wrote:
"Never the less, my point is that the Bush administration has had its share of questionable dealings and I, as an American, have every right to question, comment and hold him accountable. "
 
Fair enough, and I'm sure you'd agree that we have every right to point out where we think that with the proper knowledge of the facts the events are far less "questionable" than you might suggest.

 
Mike Brown and President Bush took control of the situation on August 29th by declaring federal jurisdiction upon naming Katrina a federal disaster.
http://www.fema.gov/news/newsrelease.fema?id=18478
 
Any questions?

Just one, just how clueless are you? READ YOUR OWN LINK, it says the the declaraion JUST BEGINS FUNDING. PAYING THE LOCALS FOR COSTS ATTRIBUTED TO THE STORM AND EVACUATION. It DOES NOT SAY that the Feds have taken over on the ground.
Either you're a fool or a liar. Then again, you're probably both.

Obviously you didn't read the link.  I will break it down for you, Mike.  Federal emergency declared on 8/27.  Then the TITLE OF THE PRESS RELEASE FROM FEMA says "President Declares Major Disaster For Louisiana".  The President declared this a federal disaster.  That means the feds are in charge (see below).
Any questions?
****************************************************
President Declares Major Disaster For Louisiana

Release Date: August 29, 2005Release Number: HQ-05-179

» More Information on Louisiana Hurricane Katrina
WASHINGTON, D.C. -- The head of the U.S. Department of Homeland Security’s Federal Emergency Management Agency (FEMA) announced today that federal disaster aid has been made available to the state of Louisiana to help residents and communities recover from the damages and losses incurred from the onslaught of Hurricane Katrina.
Michael D. Brown, Under Secretary of Homeland Security for Emergency Preparedness and Response, said the assistance was authorized under a major disaster declaration issued for the state by President Bush. The declaration covers damage to private and public property from Hurricane Katrina that occurred beginning August 29, 2005 and continuing.
The action follows the President's emergency declaration of August 27 that released federal resources to help meet immediate life-saving and life-sustaining human needs and protecting property in addition to other emergency protective measures. Debris removal and emergency services to assist law enforcement with evacuations and establishment of shelters are also eligible costs covered by the federal funding.
****************************************************
Better still...for a dumbass like you, Mike.  The last paragraph reads:
"
FEMA prepares the nation for all hazards and manages federal response and recovery efforts following any national incident. FEMA also initiates mitigation activities, trains first responders, works with state and local emergency managers, and manages the National Flood Insurance Program and the U.S. Fire Administration. FEMA became part of the U.S. Department of Homeland Security on March 1, 2003."
****************************************************
Any questions as to who had responsibility and who dropped the ball?  Remember...this is from the FEMA website and your boy made FEMA part of his pet project...the U.S. Department of Homeland Security.
Your serve...

Why don't you do us a favor and just be WRONG on one thread instead of three? There’s no reason for me to have to correct you three times.<?:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" />
 That final paragraph (which you edited) simply states what FEMA does. You'll find that paragraph on every FEMA news release. When the Feds declare a state of emergency that simply means the locals can apply for federal funds for evacuation and disaster costs. It does NOT mean the Feds have assumed control. Under our Federal system the Feds don't even have the right under law to unilaterally assume control. They have to be requested by local authorities.
 

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mikebutler222 wrote:
Why don't you do us a favor and just be WRONG on one thread instead of three? There’s no reason for me to have to correct you three times.<?:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" />
 That final paragraph (which you edited) simply states what FEMA does. You'll find that paragraph on every FEMA news release. When the Feds declare a state of emergency that simply means the locals can apply for federal funds for evacuation and disaster costs. It does NOT mean the Feds have assumed control. Under our Federal system the Feds don't even have the right under law to unilaterally assume control. They have to be requested by local authorities.
How sad that you would accuse me of editing the final paragraph.  I will post the ENTIRE notice and the link with out editing the font colors.
See below:

Home » Declared Disasters » 2005 » DR-1603, Louisiana

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President Declares Major Disaster For Louisiana

Release Date: August 29, 2005Release Number: HQ-05-179

» More Information on Louisiana Hurricane Katrina
WASHINGTON, D.C. -- The head of the U.S. Department of Homeland Security’s Federal Emergency Management Agency (FEMA) announced today that federal disaster aid has been made available to the state of Louisiana to help residents and communities recover from the damages and losses incurred from the onslaught of Hurricane Katrina.
Michael D. Brown, Under Secretary of Homeland Security for Emergency Preparedness and Response, said the assistance was authorized under a major disaster declaration issued for the state by President Bush. The declaration covers damage to private and public property from Hurricane Katrina that occurred beginning August 29, 2005 and continuing.
The action follows the President's emergency declaration of August 27 that released federal resources to help meet immediate life-saving and life-sustaining human needs and protecting property in addition to other emergency protective measures. Debris removal and emergency services to assist law enforcement with evacuations and establishment of shelters are also eligible costs covered by the federal funding.
Affected individuals and business owners in the parishes of Acadia, Ascension, Assumption, Calcasieu, Cameron, East Baton Rouge, East Feliciana, Iberia, Iberville, Jefferson, Jefferson Davis, Lafayette, Lafourche, Livingston, Orleans, Plaquemines, Pointe Coupee, St. Bernard, St. Charles, St. Helena, St. James, St. John, St. Mary, St. Martin, St. Tammany, Tangipahoa, Terrebonne, Vermilion, Washington, West Baton Rouge, and West Feliciana are eligible for aid.
The assistance will be coordinated by FEMA and can include grants to help pay for temporary housing, home repairs and other serious disaster-related expenses. Low-interest loans from the U.S. Small Business Administration also will be available to cover residential and business losses not fully compensated by insurance.
Federal funding is available to State and eligible local government in the parishes of Acadia, Ascension, Assumption, Calcasieu, Cameron, East Baton Rouge, East Feliciana, Iberia, Iberville, Jefferson, Jefferson Davis, Lafayette, Lafourche, Livingston, Orleans, Plaquemines, Pointe Coupee, St. Bernard, St. Charles, St. Helena, St. James, St. John, St. Mary, St. Martin, St. Tammany, Tangipahoa, Terrebonne, Vermilion, Washington, West Baton Rouge, and West Feliciana for debris removal and emergency protective measures, including direct Federal assistance.
Federal funding also is available to State and eligible local governments in the parishes of Allen, Avoyelles, Beauregard, Bienville, Bossier, Caddo, Caldwell, Catahoula, Claiborne, Concordia, Desoto, East Carroll, Evangeline, Franklin, Grant, Jackson, LaSalle, Lincoln, Madison, Morehouse, Natchitoches, Ouachita, Rapides, Red River, Richland, Sabine, St. Landry, Tensas, Union, Vernon, Webster, West Carroll, and Winn for emergency protective measures, including direct Federal assistance.
For a period of up to 72 hours, federal funding is available at 100 percent of the total eligible costs for emergency protective measures, including direct federal assistance. The 72-hour period funding at 100 percent excludes debris removal.
Funding, on a cost-sharing basis, is available for hazard mitigation measures in St. Mary, St. Tammany and Ouachita parishes. Damage surveys are continuing and more counties and additional forms of assistance may be designated after the assessments are completed.
Brown named William Lokey of FEMA to coordinate the federal relief effort.
Lokey encouraged those who sustained losses in the designated counties to begin the disaster application process by registering online at www.fema.gov or by calling 1-800-621-FEMA (3362), or 1-800-462-7585 (TTY) for the hearing and speech impaired. The toll-free telephone numbers will be available 24 hours seven days a week until further notice.
Registering on-line is encouraged due to the possibility of high call volume. If registering by phone, owners of commercial properties and residents with only minor losses are urged to wait a few days before calling so those whose homes were destroyed or heavily damaged can be served first. Storm victims with insurance coverage should contact their insurance company or agent before calling to report losses and, if necessary, to request an advance or partial payment of their settlement.
FEMA prepares the nation for all hazards and manages federal response and recovery efforts following any national incident. FEMA also initiates mitigation activities, trains first responders, works with state and local emergency managers, and manages the National Flood Insurance Program and the U.S. Fire Administration. FEMA became part of the U.S. Department of Homeland Security on March 1, 2003.

Last Updated: Thursday, 01-Sep-2005 09:21:42

menotellname's picture
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Mike,
What does that last paragraph say again?

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Hey dont tell me Mike Brown was not qualified, he was an Arabian Horse expert.
Not even an American hourse expert...

troll's picture
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menotellname wrote:
Mike,
What does that last paragraph say again?

Let's see if we can cut through all your obfuscation; are you really saying that Bush's declaration of emergency before the hurricane struck meant that the Feds had taken control of the evacuation and relief efforts away from the locals?<?:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" />
Also, is this finally the thread you’ve decided to post your errors on this subject to? I’m not going to bother to correct you on all three threads that you’ve posted your bogus theory on.
 

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mikebutler222 wrote:
Let's see if we can cut through all your obfuscation; are you really saying that Bush's declaration of emergency before the hurricane struck meant that the Feds had taken control of the evacuation and relief efforts away from the locals?<?:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" />
Also, is this finally the thread you’ve decided to post your errors on this subject to? I’m not going to bother to correct you on all three threads that you’ve posted your bogus theory on.
 

 
Hmmmm...
Well, since you offered no argument, and you can't refute the FEMA document (see above)...I accept your last post as a tacit surrender.

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menotellname wrote:mikebutler222 wrote:
Let's see if we can cut through all your obfuscation; are you really saying that Bush's declaration of emergency before the hurricane struck meant that the Feds had taken control of the evacuation and relief efforts away from the locals?<?:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" />
Also, is this finally the thread you’ve decided to post your errors on this subject to? I’m not going to bother to correct you on all three threads that you’ve posted your bogus theory on.
 

 
Hmmmm...
Well, since you offered no argument, and you can't refute the FEMA document (see above)...I accept your last post as a tacit surrender.

Could you point out for us specifically where the FEMA document says the Feds have the authority to assume control of anything without requests from local authorities? Hint; it doesn't.
As I pointed out to you before it simply says that Federal funds are thereby available to state and local authorities. Posting a document and asserting, as you did, that it says things it doesn't isn't really a good strategy to win a debate.

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Here's another hint for menotellthetruth/sonny
 
SUBCHAPTER IV--MAJOR DISASTER ASSISTANCE PROGRAMS<?:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" />
<?:namespace prefix = v ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" />
§ 5170. PROCEDURE FOR DECLARATION {Sec. 401}
All requests for a declaration by the President that a major disaster exists shall be made by the Governor of the affected State. Such a request shall be based on a finding that the disaster is of such severity and magnitude that effective response is beyond the capabilities of the State and the affected local governments and that Federal assistance is necessary. As part of such request, and as a prerequisite to major disaster assistance under this Act, the Governor shall take appropriate response action under State law and direct execution of the State's emergency plan. The Governor shall furnish information on the nature and amount of State and local resources which have been or will be committed to alleviating the results of the disaster, and shall certify that, for the current disaster, State and local government obligations and expenditures (of which State commitments must be a significant proportion) will comply with all applicable cost-sharing requirements of this Act. Based on the request of a Governor under this section, the President may declare under this Act that a major disaster or emergency exists.
(Pub. L. 93-288, title IV, § 401, as added Pub. L. 100-707, title I, § 106(a)(3), Nov. 23, 1988, 102 Stat. 4696.)

Now, where does it say the Feds assume control after the pres declares and emergency?

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You might also want to read the National Reponse Plan.
http://www.dhs.gov/interweb/assetlibrary/NRPbaseplan.pdf
Start with Section III, Roles and Responsibilities, it will remind you of how a FEDERAL system of government works.

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mikebutler222 wrote:
Could you point out for us specifically where the FEMA document says the Feds have the authority to assume control of anything without requests from local authorities? Hint; it doesn't.
As I pointed out to you before it simply says that Federal funds are thereby available to state and local authorities. Posting a document and asserting, as you did, that it says things it doesn't isn't really a good strategy to win a debate.

Your response is implying that the states didn't ask.  Do you think they sat there for days (and weeks) without asking or do you think that was FEMA's response?
Hint:  The feds are in control.

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menotellname wrote:mikebutler222 wrote:
Could you point out for us specifically where the FEMA document says the Feds have the authority to assume control of anything without requests from local authorities? Hint; it doesn't.
As I pointed out to you before it simply says that Federal funds are thereby available to state and local authorities. Posting a document and asserting, as you did, that it says things it doesn't isn't really a good strategy to win a debate.

Your response is implying that the states didn't ask.  Do you think they sat there for days (and weeks) without asking or do you think that was FEMA's response?
Hint:  The feds are in control.

Are you now backing away from your claim (since then proved to be incorrect) that a declaration of emergency means the Feds have taken charge?

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Thanks I have the PDF version here:
 
http://www.dhs.gov/interweb/assetlibrary/NRP_FactSheet_2005. pdf
 
Checking the fact sheet I find:
 

Press Releases
Fact Sheet: National Response Plan
What it does for America
The National Response Plan establishes a comprehensive all-hazards approach to enhance the ability of the United States to manage domestic incidents.  The Plan incorporates best practices and procedures from incident management disciplines—homeland security, emergency management, law enforcement, firefighting, public works, public health, responder and recovery worker health and safety, emergency medical services, and the private sector—and integrates them into a unified structure.  It forms the basis of how federal departments and agencies will work together and how the federal government will coordinate with state, local, and tribal governments and the private sector during incidents.  It establishes protocols to help protect the nation from terrorist attacks and other natural and manmade hazards; save lives; protect public health, safety, property, and the environment; and reduces adverse psychological consequences and disruptions to the American way of life.
Plan Organization
Base Plan: Concept of Operations, Coordinating Structures, Roles and Responsibilities, Definitions, etc.
Appendixes: Glossary, Acronyms, Authorities, and Compendium of National Interagency Plans
Emergency Support Function Annexes: Groups capabilities & resources into functions that are most likely needed during an incident (e.g., Transportation, Firefighting, Mass Care, etc.)
Support Annexes: Describes common processes and specific administrative requirements (e.g., Public Affairs, Financial Management, Worker Safety & Health, etc.)
Incident Annexes: Outlines core procedures, roles and responsibilities for specific contingencies (e.g., Bio, Radiological, Cyber, HAZMAT Spills)
National Response Plan Incident Management Priorities


  • Save lives and protect the health and safety of the public, responders, and recovery workers.
  • Ensure security of the homeland.
  • Prevent an imminent incident, including acts of terrorism, from occurring.
  • Protect and restore critical infrastructure and key resources.
  • Conduct law enforcement investigations to resolve the incident, apprehend the perpetrators, and collect and preserve evidence for prosecution and/or attribution.
  • Protect property and mitigate damages and impacts to individuals, communities, and the environment.
  • Facilitate recovery of individuals, families, businesses, governments, and the environment.

Emphasis on Local Response


  • The Plan identifies police, fire, public health and medical, emergency management, and other personnel as responsible for incident management at the local level.
  • The Plan enables incident response to be handled at the lowest possible organizational and jurisdictional level.
  • The Plan ensures the seamless integration of the federal government when an incident exceeds local or state capabilities.
  • Timely Federal Response to Catastrophic Incidents
  • The Plan identifies catastrophic incidents as high-impact, low-probability incidents, including natural disasters and terrorist attacks that result in extraordinary levels of mass casualties, damage, or disruption severely affecting the population, infrastructure, environment, economy, national morale, and/or government functions.
  • The Plan provides the means to swiftly deliver federal support in response to catastrophic incidents.

Multi-agency Coordination Structure


  • The Plan identifies police, fire, public health and medical, emergency management, and other personnel as responsible for incident management at the local level.
  • The Plan enables incident response to be handled at the lowest possible organizational and jurisdictional level.
  • The Plan ensures the seamless integration of the federal government when an incident exceeds local or state capabilities.

New Coordinating Features  in the National Response Plan
Homeland Security Operations Center (HSOC): The HSOC serves as the primary national level multi-agency hub for domestic situational awareness and operational coordination.  The HSOC also includes DHS components, such as the National Infrastructure Coordinating Center (NICC), which has primary responsibility for coordinating communications with the Nation’s critical infrastructure during an incident.
National Response Coordination Center (NRCC): The NRCC, a functional component of the HSOC, is a multi-agency center that provides overall federal response coordination.
Regional Response Coordination Center (RRCC): At the regional level, the RRCC coordinates regional response efforts and implements local federal program support until a Joint Field Office is established.
Interagency Incident Management Group (IIMG): A tailored group of senior federal interagency experts who provide strategic advice to the Secretary of Homeland Security during an actual or potential Incident of National Significance.
Joint Field Office (JFO): A temporary federal facility established locally to provide a central point to coordinate resources in support of state, local, and tribal authorities.
Principal Federal Official (PFO): A PFO may be designated by the Secretary of Homeland Security during a potential or actual Incident of National Significance. While individual federal officials retain their authorities pertaining to specific aspects of incident management, the PFO works in conjunction with these officials to coordinate overall federal incident management efforts.
Maintaining the National Response Plan


  • The Department of Homeland Security/Emergency Preparedness and Response (EP&R)/Federal Emergency Management Agency (FEMA), in close coordination with the DHS Office of the Secretary, will maintain the National Response Plan.
  • The Plan will be updated to incorporate new Presidential directives, legislative changes, and procedural changes based on lessons learned from exercises and actual events.

****************************************************
Looks like the feds failed on all levels.
 

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menotellname wrote:
 
Looks like the feds failed on all levels.
 

Looks like you still can't admit your error....

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mikebutler222 wrote:
Here's another hint for menotellthetruth/sonny
 
SUBCHAPTER IV--MAJOR DISASTER ASSISTANCE PROGRAMS<?:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" />
<?:namespace prefix = v ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" />
§ 5170. PROCEDURE FOR DECLARATION {Sec. 401}
All requests for a declaration by the President that a major disaster exists shall be made by the Governor of the affected State. Such a request shall be based on a finding that the disaster is of such severity and magnitude that effective response is beyond the capabilities of the State and the affected local governments and that Federal assistance is necessary. As part of such request, and as a prerequisite to major disaster assistance under this Act, the Governor shall take appropriate response action under State law and direct execution of the State's emergency plan. The Governor shall furnish information on the nature and amount of State and local resources which have been or will be committed to alleviating the results of the disaster, and shall certify that, for the current disaster, State and local government obligations and expenditures (of which State commitments must be a significant proportion) will comply with all applicable cost-sharing requirements of this Act. Based on the request of a Governor under this section, the President may declare under this Act that a major disaster or emergency exists.
(Pub. L. 93-288, title IV, § 401, as added Pub. L. 100-707, title I, § 106(a)(3), Nov. 23, 1988, 102 Stat. 4696.)

Now, where does it say the Feds assume control after the pres declares and emergency?

I like this...you missed the first sentence:
"All requests for a declaration by the President that a major disaster exists shall be made by the Governor of the affected State."
See Mr. Butler...this means that the state must request a declaration of a federal disaster from the President.  The President already made the declaration on 8/29 (he declared an emergency on 8/27).
At the point at which the governors realize it is over their heads and make a request for a declaration...it is in the feds hands once the declaration is made.
Thus...young Mr. Bush was at the helm.
Any questions?
 
 

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mikebutler222 wrote:menotellname wrote:
 
Looks like the feds failed on all levels.
 

Looks like you still can't admit your error....

Pardon?
 

troll's picture
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menotellname wrote:
Looks like the feds failed on all levels.
 

You must have simply missed this line from your own post;
It forms the basis of how federal departments and agencies will work together and how the federal government will coordinate with state, local, and tribal governments and the private sector during incidents.  
Notice how it DOES NOT say anything about the Feds assuming control....

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menotellname wrote:mikebutler222 wrote:
Here's another hint for menotellthetruth/sonny
 
SUBCHAPTER IV--MAJOR DISASTER ASSISTANCE PROGRAMS<?:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" />
<?:namespace prefix = v ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" />
§ 5170. PROCEDURE FOR DECLARATION {Sec. 401}
All requests for a declaration by the President that a major disaster exists shall be made by the Governor of the affected State. Such a request shall be based on a finding that the disaster is of such severity and magnitude that effective response is beyond the capabilities of the State and the affected local governments and that Federal assistance is necessary. As part of such request, and as a prerequisite to major disaster assistance under this Act, the Governor shall take appropriate response action under State law and direct execution of the State's emergency plan. The Governor shall furnish information on the nature and amount of State and local resources which have been or will be committed to alleviating the results of the disaster, and shall certify that, for the current disaster, State and local government obligations and expenditures (of which State commitments must be a significant proportion) will comply with all applicable cost-sharing requirements of this Act. Based on the request of a Governor under this section, the President may declare under this Act that a major disaster or emergency exists.
(Pub. L. 93-288, title IV, § 401, as added Pub. L. 100-707, title I, § 106(a)(3), Nov. 23, 1988, 102 Stat. 4696.)

Now, where does it say the Feds assume control after the pres declares and emergency?

I like this...you missed the first sentence:
"All requests for a declaration by the President that a major disaster exists shall be made by the Governor of the affected State."
See Mr. Butler...this means that the state must request a declaration of a federal disaster from the President.  The President already made the declaration on 8/29 (he declared an emergency on 8/27).
At the point at which the governors realize it is over their heads and make a request for a declaration...it is in the feds hands once the declaration is made.
Thus...young Mr. Bush was at the helm.
Any questions?
 
 

ROFLMAO, it's amazing how you can't even read a line IN FRONT OF YOU IN BOLD LETTERS. Here, TRY AGAIN; As part of such request, and as a prerequisite to major disaster assistance under this Act, the Governor shall take appropriate response action under State law and direct execution of the State's emergency plan.
Note the word "DIRECT".....
Face it, pal, you've been exposed. A declaration of emergency does NOT mean the Feds have taken over, the law SPECIFICALLY says the governor is to DIRECT the state plan. All it does is make Federal funds available, as has been pointed out to you numerous times.
 

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mikebutler222 wrote:menotellname wrote:mikebutler222 wrote:
Here's another hint for menotellthetruth/sonny
 
SUBCHAPTER IV--MAJOR DISASTER ASSISTANCE PROGRAMS<?:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" />
<?:namespace prefix = v ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" />
§ 5170. PROCEDURE FOR DECLARATION {Sec. 401}
All requests for a declaration by the President that a major disaster exists shall be made by the Governor of the affected State. Such a request shall be based on a finding that the disaster is of such severity and magnitude that effective response is beyond the capabilities of the State and the affected local governments and that Federal assistance is necessary. As part of such request, and as a prerequisite to major disaster assistance under this Act, the Governor shall take appropriate response action under State law and direct execution of the State's emergency plan. The Governor shall furnish information on the nature and amount of State and local resources which have been or will be committed to alleviating the results of the disaster, and shall certify that, for the current disaster, State and local government obligations and expenditures (of which State commitments must be a significant proportion) will comply with all applicable cost-sharing requirements of this Act. Based on the request of a Governor under this section, the President may declare under this Act that a major disaster or emergency exists.
(Pub. L. 93-288, title IV, § 401, as added Pub. L. 100-707, title I, § 106(a)(3), Nov. 23, 1988, 102 Stat. 4696.)

Now, where does it say the Feds assume control after the pres declares and emergency?

I like this...you missed the first sentence:
"All requests for a declaration by the President that a major disaster exists shall be made by the Governor of the affected State."
See Mr. Butler...this means that the state must request a declaration of a federal disaster from the President.  The President already made the declaration on 8/29 (he declared an emergency on 8/27).
At the point at which the governors realize it is over their heads and make a request for a declaration...it is in the feds hands once the declaration is made.
Thus...young Mr. Bush was at the helm.
Any questions?
 
 

ROFLMAO, it's amazing how you can't even read a line IN FRONT OF YOU IN BOLD LETTERS. Here, TRY AGAIN; As part of such request, and as a prerequisite to major disaster assistance under this Act, the Governor shall take appropriate response action under State law and direct execution of the State's emergency plan.
Note the word "DIRECT".....
Face it, pal, you've been exposed. A declaration of emergency does NOT mean the Feds have taken over, the law SPECIFICALLY says the governor is to DIRECT the state plan. All it does is make Federal funds available, as has been pointed out to you numerous times.
 

 
Here Mike...take a look...
The entire National Response Plan...all 426 pages:
http://www.dhs.gov/interweb/assetlibrary/NRP_FullText.pdf
 
I like Section III, Roles and Responsibilities, under the heading Federal Government.  Under the subsections; Department of Homeland Security, Secretary of Homeland Security...item 4.
Which clearly states:
"Pursuant to HSPD-5, the Secretary of Homeland Security is responsible for coordinating Federal operations within the United States to prepare for, respond to, and recover from terrorist attacks, major disasters, and other emergencies.  HSPD-5 further designates the Secretary of Homeland Security as the "principal Federal official" for domestic incident management.
In this role, the Secretary is also responsible for coordinating Federal resources utilized in response to or recovery from terrorist attacks, major disasters, or other emergencies if and when any of the following four conditions applies:
(1)  a Federal department or agency acting under its own authority has requested DHS assistance;
(2)  the resources of State and local authorities are overwhelmed and Federal assistance is requested;
(3)  more than one Federal department or agency has become substantially involved in responding to the incident; or
(4)  the Secretary has been directed to assume incident management responsibilities by the President."
****************************************************
You are Starka keep harping on #2.  Keep in mind that the exact verbage states "or" (see number 3) not "and".
Also, #4 applied from 8/29 at the absolute lastest when the President declared a Federal disaster and sent in Mike Brown.
Any questions?
Mike, I am sure that you will post some useless diatribe after reading page 8...
*sighs*

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Get Back To Work

troll's picture
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You've been corrected, AGAIN, on the other thread. Stop wasting bandwidth by lying on multiple threads.

menotellname's picture
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Check your favorite thread, Mike.

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