Christian Clients

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inlandTX's picture
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Joined: 2008-08-25

Let me vent a minute:Has anyone else experienced the strange phenomenon of clients who are "loud and proud" Christians being some of the biggest pains in the butt? I am a Christian also, so this isn't about trashing the faith. It's just that so many of the hard-core "Praise Jesus Brother" Christian clients and prospects I deal with are the most fearful, panicky, disturbed people I've ever met.No client lies to me more often than my "Christian" clients. No one stands me up for appointments, makes promises they don't keep, panics at market news, or acts totally irrationally, more often than a Christian client. To top it off, they act like brain-damaged children and then blame God for their behavior.Late yesterday a big-time Holy Ordained Minister Christian Client called to tell me he and his wife had "prayed a lot" about the current economy and "feel strongly" that "the Lord wants us to take our money out of our IRA." I said, "You mean you want to go to cash in the account?" He said, "No, we want to take the money out of our account and close our IRA." This IRA has $250,000 in it. I asked him if the "Lord" advised him, especially since he just retired after working for half the year, that he would face severe tax consequences for withdrawing all of his IRA money at the age of 53? He said he would be okay with taking a 40% hit to his life savings in taxes becase he felt "the Holy Spirit" telling him he needs to keep his money in cash away from financial institutions.This is the same guy who sends me and everyone else he knows daily scriptures and devotionals to my email, always preaching about being "strong in the Lord", having faith, yadda yadda. I convinced him and his wife to come sit with me this morning to try to clear the religious fog, so we'll see if good old common sense can prevail against the Power of Prayer.Anyone else deal with this crap?

Kingpin's picture
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Joined: 2010-07-12

Here's some speculations...1. He's about to be in some scandal whereever he ministers and he's trying to save face and get the hell outta dodge.2. Let me guess, Baptist?3. I was involved with the guilt ridden, graceless Christianity you're dealing with here.  Do you really need the account?4. Explain to him how more well equipped he would be for whatever "mistitry God has set before him" There would be no worry for these other things which gives him the freedom to serve.  You can tell by the behaviors above these clients aren't really devoted based on the lying, panicking, and not following through.  Explain that he is somehow holier for keeping his money in the account "Good steward."  Hell, tell him the government taxes he's paying would go to abortions if Obama has his way.. Or.... Just stall the meeting.  Give him a few weeks for his spirituality to clear out and greed (which I've found often trumps other religions) to take hold.  He's looking for a big "look at how holy I am" kinda response.  

inlandTX's picture
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Joined: 2008-08-25

They left to "pray more about it" after I asked them if they were sure they were listening to the Lord on the right frequency. Would God really want them to hand over almost half of their life savings to the IRS?Suddenly they weren't so sure they were hearing the Spirit after all. 

ClarenceBeeks's picture
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Joined: 2011-07-26

Tell them, "The Lord wants you to have a million dollar account."

Stig's picture
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Joined: 2010-12-17

Time to prune your book.

inlandTX's picture
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Joined: 2008-08-25

Well now the truth comes out - they have a daughter who is in legal and financial trouble but didn't want to tell me because it might hurt my opinion of them as "good solid Christians". I asked him where it was written that Christians weren't supposed to have problems, or screwup kids?Anyway, he ended up taking out only $5,000 to help his daughter.

Kingpin's picture
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Joined: 2010-07-12

Kingpin wrote:1. He's about to be in some scandal whereever he ministers and he's trying to save face and get the hell outta dodge.Missed it by that I----I much.

inlandTX's picture
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Joined: 2008-08-25

Kingpin wrote:Kingpin wrote:1. He's about to be in some scandal whereever he ministers and he's trying to save face and get the hell outta dodge.Missed it by that I----I much. *applause*

ZwingDing's picture
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Joined: 2010-09-15

inlandTX wrote:Here is way more information than you are looking for:Let me vent a minute:Has anyone else experienced the strange phenomenon of clients who are "loud and proud" Christians being some of the biggest pains in the butt? I am a Christian also, so this isn't about trashing the faith. It's just that so many of the hard-core "Praise Jesus Brother" Christian clients and prospects I deal with are the most fearful, panicky, disturbed people I've ever met.I am also a believer. Evangelical christianity, which is what I assume you are talking about, has become a caricature. It has been turned into a business in many congregations where the main point is to keep growing by using the same basic marketing techniques used in business. The message has become shallow. We have been squeezed into the world's mold. (Romans 12:2, Phillips)If you want to be challenged and shamed read about the underground churches in China. They are run by heroes who risk everything. No client lies to me more often than my "Christian" clients. No one stands me up for appointments, makes promises they don't keep, panics at market news, or acts totally irrationally, more often than a Christian client. To top it off, they act like brain-damaged children and then blame God for their behavior.Evangelical teaching (yes, I would be classified as evangelical) is a never ending diet of salvation and the identity of Jesus. Most of the practical stuff on how to live a successful life is in the Tenach (Old Testament) When the church rejects the root (Romans 11) It suffers the consequences. God's word is full of teaching that is practical for everyday life. Here's a challenging idea. Study up on the religion that Jesus practiced. I find it interesting that christians are as you say "loud and proud" about Jesus but couldn't care less about the religion he practiced, shun the celebrations he observed (only half of which have been fulfilled, the spring events). He was born a Jew, raised by observent Jewish parents, lived a devout observent Jewish life, died a Jew and is coming back a Jew. He didn't start a new religion. Paul didn't start a new religion. That is impossible to prove.They sought to reform Judaism and make it easier for gentiles to be included in the commonwealth of Israel. You want to know why christians are like that? Because they reject most of what Jesus was actually about.Stop asking WWJD (what would Jesus do) and start asking WDJD (What did Jesus do). Do what he did.  Actually live the way he lived. Try it. It's better.Late yesterday a big-time Holy Ordained Minister Christian Client called to tell me he and his wife had "prayed a lot" about the current economy and "feel strongly" that "the Lord wants us to take our money out of our IRA." I said, "You mean you want to go to cash in the account?" He said, "No, we want to take the money out of our account and close our IRA." This IRA has $250,000 in it. I asked him if the "Lord" advised him, especially since he just retired after working for half the year, that he would face severe tax consequences for withdrawing all of his IRA money at the age of 53? He said he would be okay with taking a 40% hit to his life savings in taxes becase he felt "the Holy Spirit" telling him he needs to keep his money in cash away from financial institutions.You don't have to be religious to think this way.This is the same guy who sends me and everyone else he knows daily scriptures and devotionals to my email, always preaching about being "strong in the Lord", having faith, yadda yadda. I convinced him and his wife to come sit with me this morning to try to clear the religious fog, so we'll see if good old common sense can prevail against the Power of Prayer.Anyone else deal with this crap?Yes. I have a believing client who gets freaky. You know why? Because he spends his day listening to CNBC, not God's word.

ZwingDing's picture
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Joined: 2010-09-15

inlandTX wrote:Well now the truth comes out - they have a daughter who is in legal and financial trouble but didn't want to tell me because it might hurt my opinion of them as "good solid Christians". I asked him where it was written that Christians weren't supposed to have problems, or screwup kids?Anyway, he ended up taking out only $5,000 to help his daughter.Ok, he lied to you and took God's name in vain by doing it. Taking God's name in vain is way more than saying GD. It is sullying God's reputation by associating Him with evil. What this man did was a very bad and evil thing. IMO you would have been better to keep it to yourself rather than exposing it on the Internet. But, that is your call and I understand the need to reach out for help from others. (Not being sarcastic.) Businesses care about the brand. They care about the image of the company. He was acting like a normal business person. He was protecting the brand. Please understand I'm saying he is a bad person. I don't know him. Business is business.This man/couple should be brought before the leaders of their church for discipline. I'm guessing you won't do that. Not doing that is disobeying the very scripture you claim to honor.Letting this kind of behavior pass because it has a personal cost involved (money, assets, referrals) is the exact reason the church is so shallow. People choose to disobey clear teaching because they value money more than God.You may think I'm a bad guy. Maybe you are right. I'll let others and God be my judge. You brought this subject to a public forum.

ZwingDing's picture
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Joined: 2010-09-15

ZwingDing wrote:inlandTX wrote:Here is way more information than you are looking for:Let me vent a minute:Has anyone else experienced the strange phenomenon of clients who are "loud and proud" Christians being some of the biggest pains in the butt? I am a Christian also, so this isn't about trashing the faith. It's just that so many of the hard-core "Praise Jesus Brother" Christian clients and prospects I deal with are the most fearful, panicky, disturbed people I've ever met.I am also a believer. Evangelical christianity, which is what I assume you are talking about, has become a caricature. It has been turned into a business in many congregations where the main point is to keep growing by using the same basic marketing techniques used in business. The message has become shallow. We have been squeezed into the world's mold. (Romans 12:2, Phillips)If you want to be challenged and shamed read about the underground churches in China. They are run by heroes who risk everything. No client lies to me more often than my "Christian" clients. No one stands me up for appointments, makes promises they don't keep, panics at market news, or acts totally irrationally, more often than a Christian client. To top it off, they act like brain-damaged children and then blame God for their behavior.Evangelical teaching (yes, I would be classified as evangelical) is a never ending diet of salvation and the identity of Jesus. Most of the practical stuff on how to live a successful life is in the Tenach (Old Testament) When the church rejects the root (Romans 11) It suffers the consequences. God's word is full of teaching that is practical for everyday life. Here's a challenging idea. Study up on the religion that Jesus practiced. I find it interesting that christians are as you say "loud and proud" about Jesus but couldn't care less about the religion he practiced, shun the celebrations he observed (only half of which have been fulfilled, the spring events). He was born a Jew, raised by observent Jewish parents, lived a devout observent Jewish life, died a Jew and is coming back a Jew. He didn't start a new religion. Paul didn't start a new religion. That is impossible to prove.They sought to reform Judaism and make it easier for gentiles to be included in the commonwealth of Israel. You want to know why christians are like that? Because they reject most of what Jesus was actually about.Stop asking WWJD (what would Jesus do) and start asking WDJD (What did Jesus do). Do what he did.  Actually live the way he lived. Try it. It's better.Late yesterday a big-time Holy Ordained Minister Christian Client called to tell me he and his wife had "prayed a lot" about the current economy and "feel strongly" that "the Lord wants us to take our money out of our IRA." I said, "You mean you want to go to cash in the account?" He said, "No, we want to take the money out of our account and close our IRA." This IRA has $250,000 in it. I asked him if the "Lord" advised him, especially since he just retired after working for half the year, that he would face severe tax consequences for withdrawing all of his IRA money at the age of 53? He said he would be okay with taking a 40% hit to his life savings in taxes becase he felt "the Holy Spirit" telling him he needs to keep his money in cash away from financial institutions.You don't have to be religious to think this way.This is the same guy who sends me and everyone else he knows daily scriptures and devotionals to my email, always preaching about being "strong in the Lord", having faith, yadda yadda. I convinced him and his wife to come sit with me this morning to try to clear the religious fog, so we'll see if good old common sense can prevail against the Power of Prayer.Anyone else deal with this crap?Yes. I have a believing client who gets freaky. You know why? Because he spends his day listening to CNBC, not God's word.

ZwingDing's picture
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Joined: 2010-09-15

ZwingDing wrote:inlandTX wrote:Well now the truth comes out - they have a daughter who is in legal and financial trouble but didn't want to tell me because it might hurt my opinion of them as "good solid Christians". I asked him where it was written that Christians weren't supposed to have problems, or screwup kids?Anyway, he ended up taking out only $5,000 to help his daughter.Ok, he lied to you and took God's name in vain by doing it. Taking God's name in vain is way more than saying GD. It is sullying God's reputation by associating Him with evil. What this man did was a very bad and evil thing. IMO you would have been better to keep it to yourself rather than exposing it on the Internet. But, that is your call and I understand the need to reach out for help from others. (Not being sarcastic.) Businesses care about the brand. They care about the image of the company. He was acting like a normal business person. He was protecting the brand. This man/couple should be brought before the leaders of their church for discipline. I'm guessing you won't do that. Not doing that is disobeying the very scripture you claim to honor.Letting this kind of behavior pass because it has a personal cost involved (money, assets, referrals) is the exact reason the church is so shallow. People choose to disobey clear teaching because they value money more than God.You may think I'm a bad guy. Maybe you are right. I'll let others and God be my judge. You brought this subject to a public forum.

inlandTX's picture
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Joined: 2008-08-25

I won't do it (take the matter forward), because I have also sworn to client confidentiality.Surely you have also seen the same phenomenon in your practice. Here's my theory: we have become feminized "nice" Christians over the last century. There is a huge difference between being a "nice" Christian and a GOOD one.Nice ones tell you what you want to hear because they don't want to hurt your feelings: "Yes, I'll be there Tuesday at 2." And then not show up and hide when you call looking to reschedule. Good ones will say, "No thank you, we have an advisor. We don't want to waste your time."Nice ones don't want to make too much money, else people might think they are greedy. Good ones make all the money they can and use it for the glory of God.Nice ones like to receive advice and talk about it all day, and then go pray about it and pray some more because they are always afraid to take action. Good ones actually act on it.Nice Christian advisors starve to death because they don't want to look pushy. Good Christian advisors push when it's in the best interest of the prospect.You get the idea. Glad to find other believers in the business, though. A great book on how to be a tougher, good Christian is called "No More Christian Nice Guy". I don't remember who wrote it but it was a great read on this subject.

nasdaqsuperstar's picture
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Joined: 2008-12-29

I went to this "financial seminar" of a FA at my church.  He pretty much did not talk about one thing regarding finance, the market, ect.  The whole time he said he had the power to go around and read people and tell them something about their future.  IE.  he would go up to some older guy and say "childern".  then somebody else and tell them Parks.  ect. I think he closed 2-3 accounts when the day was over.

ZwingDing's picture
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Joined: 2010-09-15

inlandTX wrote:I won't do it (take the matter forward), because I have also sworn to client confidentiality.Surely you have also seen the same phenomenon in your practice. Here's my theory: we have become feminized "nice" Christians over the last century. There is a huge difference between being a "nice" Christian and a GOOD one.Nice ones tell you what you want to hear because they don't want to hurt your feelings: "Yes, I'll be there Tuesday at 2." And then not show up and hide when you call looking to reschedule. Good ones will say, "No thank you, we have an advisor. We don't want to waste your time."Nice ones don't want to make too much money, else people might think they are greedy. Good ones make all the money they can and use it for the glory of God.Nice ones like to receive advice and talk about it all day, and then go pray about it and pray some more because they are always afraid to take action. Good ones actually act on it.Nice Christian advisors starve to death because they don't want to look pushy. Good Christian advisors push when it's in the best interest of the prospect.You get the idea. Glad to find other believers in the business, though. A great book on how to be a tougher, good Christian is called "No More Christian Nice Guy". I don't remember who wrote it but it was a great read on this subject.My dear brother, I was telling my wife about this issue and my response this morning and she reminded me of the same duty to confidentiality. So, I was wrong. You are right, on that issue. In reference to being feminized Christians I 100% agree. IMO it is because the church is sync'ed up with the at-large culture which has been feminized. Again, we have let the world squeeze us into their mold. (Rom. 12:2, Phillips)I have the book you mentioned and the authors other book on raising children. They are both execellent. Blessings on you as you seek to walk in Christ.

Stonewall's picture
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Joined: 2007-08-06

Found your post to very interesting.  I am also a Christian; however, I have found my "Christian" clients to be the most unreasonable.  They are the ones, as you mentioned, who call me and say they have been praying or reading scripture and they have been led to pull all of their money out of the market and put it in cash or gold.  They have all kinds of scriptures to back their decision.  It is amazing.  I have spent more non-compensation time pulling money out of the accounts of Christians than anyone else.Just this weekend I received a call from one of our church elders at thome.  He wanted to know why the pastor had an account in a 403(b).  I told him that the pastor's CPA advised him to set up the 403(b).  The pastor asked me to set it up for him (I never solicited the account).  He wants to know how to get all of the money out of the account and implies that I should not have set up the account.  He is upset that the pastor will have to pay taxes.  I am scratching my head realizing that it is a no win situation.  I mentioned to my wife that I may be wise to avoid doing business with Christians - frustrating.

Harley43's picture
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Joined: 2009-05-30

I would tell them you are going to pray that they keep the account with you. You got a 50/50 shot. 

inlandTX's picture
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Joined: 2008-08-25

Hey it's been an interesting past year, so I thought I'd revisit this thread and update on the situation.I went indy less than a year ago, so I've now had the opportunity to observe these same clients again when the time came to ask them to come with me or stay at the B/D. Over all, I got about 3/4 of my old book to come with me, but surprisingly, almost none of the Christians would move over. They all said they wanted to, "but... but ... but..."The bottom line is they were almost uniformly frozen by fear. "What if you die?" was my personal favorite. Almost universally, they did not have in them the ability to take a "leap of faith". Everyone said they would pray on it, almost everyone said, "Yes, we'll move over, just give us time." And almost none of them actually would pull the trigger. For all the scriptures I read from them on Facebook about not having a spirit of fear, sadly I've reached the conclusion that almost every preachy Christian I've ever met is actually LOADED with it.Book pruned. Advisor less burdened with nonsense. Email inbox less cluttered with forwarded devotionals. :)

inlandTX's picture
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Joined: 2008-08-25

ZwingDing wrote:If Christianity is the representation on earth of "the way, the truth, and the life" why is being a flake so widely, and apparaently, over-represented among us? Why aren't we the most stable rock solid people who are not driven by fear? Truer words were never spoken!

Amber_M's picture
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Joined: 2011-12-26

The beauty of this business is that you only have to work with people you want to.My fav time of the year is January 1 when I decide which PITA client I am firing. Quite liberating.Amber

mstudy's picture
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Joined: 2011-10-05

Life is like a box of chocolates; "you never know what you are going to get"

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