[quote=sisu]

http://www.nytimes.com/1999/09/30/business/fannie-mae-eases-credit-to-aid-mortgage-lending.html?sec=&spon=&emc=eta1

Even the NY Times warned in 1999 of the government created danger.

[/quote] Thank you for posting that. Warned?!? They had a crystal freakin' ball!!!   "In moving, even tentatively, into this new area of lending, Fannie Mae is taking on significantly more risk, which may not pose any difficulties during flush economic times. But the government-subsidized corporation may run into trouble in an economic downturn, prompting a government rescue similar to that of the savings and loan industry in the 1980's."   There is absolutely no question who created this mess...not investment bankers, not the Ivy League rich kids, not the analysts who created all these AAA rated CDO's etc. NOPE...it was Washington D.C.   100% created by the Clinton administration then pushed and promoted by Bush the Younger. These sumbitches have every resource at their disposal, so one has to wonder...if this NY Times reporter had the foresight to see this possibility, then what about all the economists and analysts working for the prez??? 'FESS UP WHITE HOUSE!!!! We the people all deserve an apology for your f*ck ups. We the people do not deserve the blame.   Just when I thought I killed that little cynical, negative attitude of mine I hear some sh*t like this. Makes me sick.    

I cannot fathom for the life of me what would compel so-called educated men to want to offer loans of hundreds of thousands of dollars to people with "subprime" credit ratings.

WAKE UP DUMB@SS!!! They have BAD CREDIT!!! That means they don't pay their bills!!! Would you loan them YOUR money?!? Idiots...complete and utter morons...every last one of them.

Whoo saaaaaaaaaaah whoo saaaaaaaaaaah

[quote=jkl1v1n6][quote=josephjones107] [quote=sisu]

  1.  Our profession is greedy and does lack integrity.  Not every individual person but as a general statement isn't wrong.  If you can't see it you have your eyes closed.   2.  Government did not create this mess, they did however open the door for us to walk through.  The government did not force our actions, they just took away the barriers and let us do our own thing.  Give an inch, they'll take a mile.  OR Give a man too much rope and he'll hang himself with it.  That is where we are because of GREED!  [/quote]   Boy do I disagree with you.  There are SOME people in the industry that lack integrity.  That is in every industry, every walk of life.  By in large, the VAST majority of people in this industry are hard working, honest people.  IF YOU cant see that then you are blind and/or are working with bad people.   The governement absolutely created this mess.  Fannie and Freddie were pushed by congress to adopt absurd underwritting criteria.  Polosi and her ikl SHRILLED at anyone who would listen crying out about how "unfair and unamerican" requiring as little as 3% down was a form of discrimination and denying people a shot at the american dream.  You are dilluding yourself and buying into the liberal revisionistic crap about how we got to where we are.  Same horse dung going on about AIG.  They were KNEE DEEP in this bonus situation.  Geitner and this adminstration were well aware what the deal was, signed off on it and now they want to pretend they never knew.  Geitner should be FIRED and Obama should be held accountable for this.

[quote=BukiRob][quote=jkl1v1n6][quote=josephjones107] [quote=sisu]

  1.  Our profession is greedy and does lack integrity.  Not every individual person but as a general statement isn't wrong.  If you can't see it you have your eyes closed.   2.  Government did not create this mess, they did however open the door for us to walk through.  The government did not force our actions, they just took away the barriers and let us do our own thing.  Give an inch, they'll take a mile.  OR Give a man too much rope and he'll hang himself with it.  That is where we are because of GREED!  [/quote]   Boy do I disagree with you.  There are SOME people in the industry that lack integrity.  That is in every industry, every walk of life.  By in large, the VAST majority of people in this industry are hard working, honest people.  IF YOU cant see that then you are blind and/or are working with bad people.   The governement absolutely created this mess.  Fannie and Freddie were pushed by congress to adopt absurd underwritting criteria.  Polosi and her ikl SHRILLED at anyone who would listen crying out about how "unfair and unamerican" requiring as little as 3% down was a form of discrimination and denying people a shot at the american dream.  You are dilluding yourself and buying into the liberal revisionistic crap about how we got to where we are.  Same horse dung going on about AIG.  They were KNEE DEEP in this bonus situation.  Geitner and this adminstration were well aware what the deal was, signed off on it and now they want to pretend they never knew.  Geitner should be FIRED and Obama should be held accountable for this.[/quote]   I've seen it in the investments advisors have sold to investors.  I've seen it in the way advisors sell to investors.  I've seen it when people needed to make their months.  I've seen it when rules changed and it was advantageous to the broker and disadvantageous with the investor. I've seen it when advisors take over books.  I've seen in accounts I've taken over how they've been set up.  I've seen it too many times.  I can't recall how many times I've been told about what or how to do something a certain way and told it's good for the client AND you make 100 bps more.  It always ends with how more money can be made.  I'm glad your experience is different.    Now, I'm not going to say the government doesn't have some culpability in all of this but Fannie and Freddie didn't make all the loans to buyers.  How about the homeowners that wanted newer, bigger houses.  How about the mortgage loan officer that wanted bigger commissions.  How about the greed from the banks that recommended to those home owners that had zero to put down to go into a 5 year ARM when interest rates were at 40 year lows to be able to afford that 700m house.  How about them knowing they were going to sell it into the secondary market and have zero responsibility.  How about the institutions that created an entirely new security that just couldn't go bad and would be able to sell them off.  How about the rating agencies that didn't do their job.  How about the banks and hedge funds and all the others that bought up this crap because it was low risk paying a good rate.  Like I said before, government took down the barriers, everyone else did the rest.  The gov't didn't force the banks to make those loans, they didn't force people to take outrageous mortgages, they didn't force financial institutions to take on the risk they took.  GREED is what made everyone do what they did.    This isn't Liberal revisionistic crap this is common sense!  Start thinking for yourself a little and turn off talk radio.

[quote=jkl1v1n6][quote=BukiRob][quote=jkl1v1n6][quote=josephjones107] [quote=sisu]

  1.  Our profession is greedy and does lack integrity.  Not every individual person but as a general statement isn't wrong.  If you can't see it you have your eyes closed.   2.  Government did not create this mess, they did however open the door for us to walk through.  The government did not force our actions, they just took away the barriers and let us do our own thing.  Give an inch, they'll take a mile.  OR Give a man too much rope and he'll hang himself with it.  That is where we are because of GREED!  [/quote]   Boy do I disagree with you.  There are SOME people in the industry that lack integrity.  That is in every industry, every walk of life.  By in large, the VAST majority of people in this industry are hard working, honest people.  IF YOU cant see that then you are blind and/or are working with bad people.   The governement absolutely created this mess.  Fannie and Freddie were pushed by congress to adopt absurd underwritting criteria.  Polosi and her ikl SHRILLED at anyone who would listen crying out about how "unfair and unamerican" requiring as little as 3% down was a form of discrimination and denying people a shot at the american dream.  You are dilluding yourself and buying into the liberal revisionistic crap about how we got to where we are.  Same horse dung going on about AIG.  They were KNEE DEEP in this bonus situation.  Geitner and this adminstration were well aware what the deal was, signed off on it and now they want to pretend they never knew.  Geitner should be FIRED and Obama should be held accountable for this.[/quote]   I've seen it in the investments advisors have sold to investors.  I've seen it in the way advisors sell to investors.  I've seen it when people needed to make their months.  I've seen it when rules changed and it was advantageous to the broker and disadvantageous with the investor. I've seen it when advisors take over books.  I've seen in accounts I've taken over how they've been set up.  I've seen it too many times.  I can't recall how many times I've been told about what or how to do something a certain way and told it's good for the client AND you make 100 bps more.  It always ends with how more money can be made.  I'm glad your experience is different.    Now, I'm not going to say the government doesn't have some culpability in all of this but Fannie and Freddie didn't make all the loans to buyers.  How about the homeowners that wanted newer, bigger houses.  How about the mortgage loan officer that wanted bigger commissions.  How about the greed from the banks that recommended to those home owners that had zero to put down to go into a 5 year ARM when interest rates were at 40 year lows to be able to afford that 700m house.  How about them knowing they were going to sell it into the secondary market and have zero responsibility.  How about the institutions that created an entirely new security that just couldn't go bad and would be able to sell them off.  How about the rating agencies that didn't do their job.  How about the banks and hedge funds and all the others that bought up this crap because it was low risk paying a good rate.  Like I said before, government took down the barriers, everyone else did the rest.  The gov't didn't force the banks to make those loans, they didn't force people to take outrageous mortgages, they didn't force financial institutions to take on the risk they took.  GREED is what made everyone do what they did.    This isn't Liberal revisionistic crap this is common sense!  Start thinking for yourself a little and turn off talk radio.[/quote]   It is a combination of all these things posted by JJones and yourself. I will also throw in the mix Real Estate agents (whose culpability has mysteriously been absent from all this hoopla) that also took advantage of the door being cracked open.   You want to put some NEW banking regulations in place? How about "breakpoints" on home prices as it applies to real estate agents, and the same concept on Mortgage Brokers based on loan amounts, rather than the current regs which basically pay these guys from the spread on points/rates they are locking clients at on their loan amounts.   I'm not suggesting that this would stop the excess, but holy crap, if you are a real estate agent and your are charging 6% regardless of whether the home is selling for $100k OR $600K, and you know that former clients are calling you wanting to move up 2,3,4 times in a couple years time - you talk about a cash cow that got milked!!!?!?!?   While they are at it, they should start scrutinizing the appraisers and closing attorneys who  (just like our MFD/INS/Annuity wholesalers) provide some pretty nice perks to those banks and loan officers that send them business. Perks like - trips to Vegas, not for business mind you - strictly pleasure, appraising homes at higher values just to get deals to closing whether it be home equity lines or primary residences which inevitably leads to more future business from those banks/loan officers. I don't mind "tit for tat" business dealings, but it would be nice to at least start calling a spade a spade in EVERY industry - not just the investment community or when it is politically expedient.