[quote=babbling looney]

You are an idiot. [/quote]

Yep, under every screen name he uses...

[quote=AllREIT]As a Chartered Senior Annuity Advisor, I resent your attempts at preventing me from feeding my family and making payments on my Porche Boxter. [/quote]

 That's just how a CSAA would spell both of those words. Great job.

One of my "clients" just transferred out into a John Hancock EIA. I could never get this guys to understand my process, and what I was trying to do to protect him. From almost day one I had the feeling that we were adversaries. Classic case of my taking on a client that I should never have taken on. I have had him allocated between 60 and 70% equities (ETF's and until a year ago, indiv stocks, with me running the portfolio for about 3 years. I think we averaged about 8% annual. It wasnt good enough

Anyway, since taking an early retirement, which is when he came to me as a referral with the rollover, he's been trying different things to make a living, most recently, selling LTC insurance. I actually had him come to some networking events, suggested he get connected to sell life ins as well, really tried to help him.

Recently, he calls me out of the blue, and asks me to liquidate the portfolios, as he is putting the $ into an EIA. Because of everything I had been thru, I didnt try to fight it, just said ok no prob, and liquidated. In a subsequent conversation, he tells me that the EIA is going to give him full upside, guarantees, with no downside, no surrender, and no cost. I got the paperwork, and sent him a check yesterday. Today I thought about it, and called him, just because I hate when I see people get f**cked by one of us. I carefully explained that I was not trying to convince him to come back, because my philosophy is that once someone decides to leave, I think its best that they do. But I wanted to help him. I recalled to him that he told me that the cost was zero, and the guarantee was there, no surrender, no nothing. ANd that was impossible. I offered pro bono to look at the EIA for him and analyze it before the money went in, just because I think the guy that sold it to him was hosing him.

The client tells me that noone sold it to him, he sold it to himself, because he is now doing annuities. What an idiot. His manager, or whoever, actually convinced him that he could get full upside, no downside, full liquidity and no cost. He tells me that he's thoruughly researched this and its true.

I just said good luck and hung up. Its really exasperating what people do to themsleves. This is why its so hard to prospect, the public is so jaded by this stuff.

What I am thinking now, is the next thing this genius does is go to the guy that referred him to me, and convinces him to take the money that I manage and put it into this free ride product! But I cant say anything pre-emptive, because I cant and wont talk to one client about another.

Anyway, just venting, so if you want to trash me, go ahead, bring it, everyones entitled to their opinion. 

Pratoman, You didn't need this client anyway. Just print off the articles at the beginning or any others that are popping up weekly... just show them to the referral if it happens.

This reminds me I had an old IR buddy who had the same thing happen to him. This prospect had 950,000 in his 401 K. He talked to the IR and an CSA  EIA shammer. The dude obviously loved the American funds story, NAV and all. But he found out about the commission on the EIA and decide to study and take the insurance exam, bada bing 100,000 commission to himself.

[quote=pratoman]

One of my "clients" just transferred out into a John Hancock EIA. I could never get this guys to understand my process, and what I was trying to do to protect him. From almost day one I had the feeling that we were adversaries. Classic case of my taking on a client that I should never have taken on. I have had him allocated between 60 and 70% equities (ETF's and until a year ago, indiv stocks, with me running the portfolio for about 3 years. I think we averaged about 8% annual. It wasnt good enough

Anyway, since taking an early retirement, which is when he came to me as a referral with the rollover, he's been trying different things to make a living, most recently, selling LTC insurance. I actually had him come to some networking events, suggested he get connected to sell life ins as well, really tried to help him.

Recently, he calls me out of the blue, and asks me to liquidate the portfolios, as he is putting the $ into an EIA. Because of everything I had been thru, I didnt try to fight it, just said ok no prob, and liquidated. In a subsequent conversation, he tells me that the EIA is going to give him full upside, guarantees, with no downside, no surrender, and no cost. I got the paperwork, and sent him a check yesterday. Today I thought about it, and called him, just because I hate when I see people get f**cked by one of us. I carefully explained that I was not trying to convince him to come back, because my philosophy is that once someone decides to leave, I think its best that they do. But I wanted to help him. I recalled to him that he told me that the cost was zero, and the guarantee was there, no surrender, no nothing. ANd that was impossible. I offered pro bono to look at the EIA for him and analyze it before the money went in, just because I think the guy that sold it to him was hosing him.

The client tells me that noone sold it to him, he sold it to himself, because he is now doing annuities. What an idiot. His manager, or whoever, actually convinced him that he could get full upside, no downside, full liquidity and no cost. He tells me that he's thoruughly researched this and its true.

I just said good luck and hung up. Its really exasperating what people do to themsleves. This is why its so hard to prospect, the public is so jaded by this stuff.

What I am thinking now, is the next thing this genius does is go to the guy that referred him to me, and convinces him to take the money that I manage and put it into this free ride product! But I cant say anything pre-emptive, because I cant and wont talk to one client about another.

Anyway, just venting, so if you want to trash me, go ahead, bring it, everyones entitled to their opinion. 

[/quote]

He can average as little as you were making him without risk of loss in an EIA. Why should he stay with you?

[quote=Bobby Hull]

He can average as little as you were making him without risk of loss in an EIA. Why should he stay with you?

[/quote]

He blew away the The American Balanced fund thats also a 60/40.

You show me a EIA that will average 8% and is liquid. I will buy it. Do you sell these at best 5-6 %  rate of returns with no liquidity after 15 years which then you must annuitize to get that bonus that was paid.

Actually, I sell one that has a 5 year surrender period. I tell people that they will probably make bethween 6% and 8%. It only pays me 5%, but it is such an easy sale to make that I make up for it in volume.

I think that I'm one of the few people who doesn't sell EIA's, yet does not think that they are terrible products.    What I do think is that there is usually an issue with how they are sold.  Giving someone an expectation of 6-8% is a problem. 

EIA's are appropriate whenever the solution calls for a fixed annuity and someone is comfortable with the EIA's crediting method and the surrender charges and understands that they may get more or less than a traditional fixed annuity.

 "he tells me that the EIA is going to give him full upside, guarantees, with no downside, no surrender, and no cost."  Pratoman, my response would be, "Best of luck to you in your new career.  That EIA sounds like the greatest product ever.  Please read the contract from cover to cover and if it works how you understand, I have clients that I can send to you since my B/D gives me a hard time about EIA sales."

[quote=anonymous]

I think that I'm one of the few people who doesn't sell EIA's, yet does not think that they are terrible products.    What I do think is that there is usually an issue with how they are sold.  Giving someone an expectation of 6-8% is a problem. 

EIA's are appropriate whenever the solution calls for a fixed annuity and someone is comfortable with the EIA's crediting method and the surrender charges and understands that they may get more or less than a traditional fixed annuity.

 "he tells me that the EIA is going to give him full upside, guarantees, with no downside, no surrender, and no cost."  Pratoman, my response would be, "Best of luck to you in your new career.  That EIA sounds like the greatest product ever.  Please read the contract from cover to cover and if it works how you understand, I have clients that I can send to you since my B/D gives me a hard time about EIA sales."

[/quote]

Since you don't sell them, you're probably better off not making any comments. You could say something really silly without even knowing it.

Bobby, I'm sure that I can count on you to tell me when I say something silly.  

Thanks Bamzor, for both posts. You are correct, I am clearly, as I said in my first post, best off without the client.

While I beat the American Funds Balanced, that doesnt really matter much to me, outside of the fact that its fun to do that. What matters most is that I got the guy an 8% return, with 60% market exposure.

Bobby, I guess thats lost on you. I guess the fact that the guy is buying a product that he truly believes he has investigated and fully understood, which gives him full liquidity, no costs, full market upside and no downside, means, he did a smart thing leaving me.

You are an idiot.

[quote=pratoman]

Thanks Bamzor, for both posts. You are correct, I am clearly, as I said in my first post, best off without the client.

While I beat the American Funds Balanced, that doesnt really matter much to me, outside of the fact that its fun to do that. What matters most is that I got the guy an 8% return, with 60% market exposure.

Bobby, I guess thats lost on you. I guess the fact that the guy is buying a product that he truly believes he has investigated and fully understood, which gives him full liquidity, no costs, full market upside and no downside, means, he did a smart thing leaving me.

You are an idiot.

[/quote]

If it helps you to call me an idiot, help yourself. When this guy was presented with the EIA, why didn't he come to his trusted advisor (you) and ask your opinion? I might ba an idiot, but I'm the guy who steals business from guys like you.

On behalf of all rainmakers, thank you for doing a mediocre job and failing to develop your relationships with your clients. We couldn't do it without you.

Bobby,

If you've been in the business for more than a week, you know that there are lots of folks who just dont get it, no matter how good a job you do educating them and managing expectations early on in the relationship. I thought I made it pretty clear in my initial post that this was the case here.

The other point I'd make, is that I'm glad you get off on being "the guy who steals business from guys like you", using EIA's. You make no reference to the fact that this guy was sold a bill of goods by someone in his organization, i.e. no downside, full upside, no cost.

If thats the way you guys steal business from guys like me, then more power to ya dude.

I get off on helping people who value my advice and are willing to pay me a REASONABLE price for it. Thats why I got this client referred to me in the first place.

Wish I had your conscience.

[quote=pratoman]

Bobby,

If you've been in the business for more than a week, you know that there are lots of folks who just dont get it, no matter how good a job you do educating them and managing expectations early on in the relationship. I thought I made it pretty clear in my initial post that this was the case here.

The other point I'd make, is that I'm glad you get off on being "the guy who steals business from guys like you", using EIA's. You make no reference to the fact that this guy was sold a bill of goods by someone in his organization, i.e. no downside, full upside, no cost.

If thats the way you guys steal business from guys like me, then more power to ya dude.

I get off on helping people who value my advice and are willing to pay me a REASONABLE price for it. Thats why I got this client referred to me in the first place.

Wish I had your conscience.

[/quote]

One thing that you're not considering is that the guy who sold your client an EIA may have told the complete truth, but the client is lying to you so he doesn't have to tell you the truth about why he left you. In other words, he's making it sound like the perfect investment because you would not blame him for moving. Remember...they lie to us way more than we lie to them.

I might also mention that you put him in that low performing American Fund MF. What the hell are you doing? Could you be more boring and void of creativity? If I were you, I'd take this as an opportunity to learn. If it's always gonna be the fault of the big, bad annuity salesman, you'll die on the vine.

[quote=Bobby Hull][quote=pratoman]

Bobby,

If you've been in the business for more than a week, you know that there are lots of folks who just dont get it, no matter how good a job you do educating them and managing expectations early on in the relationship. I thought I made it pretty clear in my initial post that this was the case here.

The other point I'd make, is that I'm glad you get off on being "the guy who steals business from guys like you", using EIA's. You make no reference to the fact that this guy was sold a bill of goods by someone in his organization, i.e. no downside, full upside, no cost.

If thats the way you guys steal business from guys like me, then more power to ya dude.

I get off on helping people who value my advice and are willing to pay me a REASONABLE price for it. Thats why I got this client referred to me in the first place.

Wish I had your conscience.

[/quote]

One thing that you're not considering is that the guy who sold your client an EIA may have told the complete truth, but the client is lying to you so he doesn't have to tell you the truth about why he left you. In other words, he's making it sound like the perfect investment because you would not blame him for moving. Remember...they lie to us way more than we lie to them.

I might also mention that you put him in that low performing American Fund MF. What the hell are you doing? Could you be more boring and void of creativity? If I were you, I'd take this as an opportunity to learn. If it's always gonna be the fault of the big, bad annuity salesman, you'll die on the vine.

[/quote]

Dear PantsGoBrown, er Troll, er, I mean Bobby,

This will be the last time I respond to you. I swear, I promise. After this, I'm going to let you have the last word!

If you look back at the posts on this thread (I believe its page 3) it was Bamzor, not I who brought up American Funds Balanced. He did so in the context of pointing out that I blew the doors off the fund. His words, not mine. In fact, I dont use that fund. In fact, I got the client the 8% 3 year annualized return with 60% equity exposure, by running a diversified portfolio of individual stocks and ETF's. So you should get your facts straight before responding.

Finally, it was not my intent to get into a pissing match with you or anyone else on this forum. I value this venue for the constructive ideas it allows most of us to share. Therefore, as far as this thread is concerned, I shall no longer respond to your drivel. Of course you will respond to this, because you cant help yourself. Won't you? And then, that will be the last word. You can have it.

I'd suggest everyone else ostracize you as well, but then you would just change your identity, one more time.

Best of luck to you with your efforts on EIA's

Word.

One thing that you're not considering is that the guy who sold your client an EIA may have told the complete truth, but the client is lying to you so he doesn't have to tell you the truth about why he left you. In other words, he's making it sound like the perfect investment because you would not blame him for moving. Remember...they lie to us way more than we lie to them.

I might also mention that you put him in that low performing American Fund MF. What the hell are you doing? Could you be more boring and void of creativity? If I were you, I'd take this as an opportunity to learn. If it's always gonna be the fault of the big, bad annuity salesman, you'll die on the vine.

Good contribution to the topic with some constructive criticism.  Just difference of opinion and someone seems to be on the defensive.

[quote=goforbroke]

One thing that you're not considering is that the guy who sold your client an EIA may have told the complete truth, but the client is lying to you so he doesn't have to tell you the truth about why he left you. In other words, he's making it sound like the perfect investment because you would not blame him for moving. Remember...they lie to us way more than we lie to them.

I might also mention that you put him in that low performing American Fund MF. What the hell are you doing? Could you be more boring and void of creativity? If I were you, I'd take this as an opportunity to learn. If it's always gonna be the fault of the big, bad annuity salesman, you'll die on the vine.

Good contribution to the topic with some constructive criticism.  Just difference of opinion and someone seems to be on the defensive.

[/quote]

Defensive people never win. It must be tough losing an account to an EIA because you can't deliver. Poor little feller.

ok, now you’ve crossed the line to being obnoxious (“because you can’t deliver”) No wonder he has hostility towards u.

 Goforbroke, you hit it on the head with your last post.

This forum would be more useful to all of us if we ignored the diatribe and focused on the constructive stuff that will help us all.