I agree with you Joe.....

[quote=noggin]

I agree with you Joe…

[quote=joedabrkr]Because, of course, we have such a shortage of jones-bashing threads on here…
[/quote]



And so much secret EDJ envy.

[quote=spikedkoolaid]

The liquidate and transfer form that Jones has clients sign is the biggest form of churning/unethical behavior that Jones covers up.

Let me explain:  Unassuming client brings in a statement to get a "free portfolio review".  The IR suggests that they transfer their account in to EDJ.  Instead of transferring in-kind the T-Rowe Price Int'l Fund, the Calamos Growth fund, the Phoenix Mid-Cap Value fund, the Alliance International Value fund, and the Legg Mason Value Trust.  They say, let's Liquidate and Transfer this $400,000 account and put it into two different fund families. 

I would hope that Jones would start asking the IR where this $400,000 check is coming from and why did the client decide to liquidate and transfer the account.  What funds were the client invested in, etc.  I just wish that the field supervision at Jones would ask more questions of the IR when they get a big check deposited into an account.

Ed Jones is not allowed to hold the Legg Mason Fund.  Nor are they allowed to hold a couple others you mention.  Edward Jones does not sell proprietary products.  Anything Eddie Jones sells, if another firm doesn’t hold them, and you know they have 7 “preferred fund” families: American, Frank/Temp, Goldman Sacs, Hartford, Putnam, Van Kampen, Lord Abbett, then I suggest you find another firm or broker dealer, because everyone should be able to hold everyone else’s product.

Jones sucks!!  They have a great propoganda machine.  Hell the regional leader recruits to have positive info sent to a consultant so we can get “Best place to work{and go broke}” in x state.  Losers!!  I sent a I hate this place to the consultant.  I figure by the time they get through them, I’ll be gooooone!!! Liquidate and transfer…wait 3 years and then switch the mutual funds to another family for some coooool cash!!  Run hypos until you find a better performance than what the client already has in place and sell out and put in.  Put "the client held said funds for x years at prior broker…will get lower internal expense and historical performance demonstrates a better ROI.  No redemption fees.  on the Fspend.  I know all the tricks…EDJ’s has taught the brokers well.  Long live the GP.   

[quote=regrep2007]Ed Jones is not allowed to hold the Legg Mason Fund.  Nor are they allowed to hold a couple others you mention.  Edward Jones does not sell proprietary products.  Anything Eddie Jones sells, if another firm doesn't hold them, and you know they have 7 "preferred fund" families: American, Frank/Temp, Goldman Sacs, Hartford, Putnam, Van Kampen, Lord Abbett, then I suggest you find another firm or broker dealer, because everyone should be able to hold everyone else's product.[/quote]

It is true that there are a few funds we cannot hold.  But we have dealer agreements on about 95% of fund families out there, including most of the no-loads.

woah there 24, while I concur there are many funds we can hold and the prior quote that we can’t hold any was an exaggeration, 95% is exaggerated on the other end.  I’d GUESS it’s closer to 50%.  I recently transferred in an account with a dozen or so different families, mostly no load, and we had to sell about half of them.  MAYBE 95% of the biggest families, but many funds we cannot hold.

gad12,

     I'm glad that someone from Jones tempers the exaggerations from the koolaid drinkers.  On the other hand, I do see that a lot of former Jonsers like to exaggerate the negative.  Though you work at Jones, you don't seem to drink all of the kool-aid. Thanks for keeping the fight headed down the right path. 

No problem. 

I actually think Broker 24 does a pretty good job of not getting too extreme either way.

Like you said though there are lots of those on either side of the fence who just get too crazy one way or the other. 

I like Jones and apppreciate what they've done to help me get started.  If they didn't have half a dozen major issues, I probably wouldn't be looking to leave.  These problems get me frustrated and angry from time to time and I can see why many get so bitter.  However, if you try to take an objective view of the entire situation most of us were benefited overall from Jones. 

Actually, I was only basing my comment on experience from what I have

brought over from other firms. I have never really looked that close at at

the list unless I wasn’t sure if we could hold them. If you’ve studied the

list, you’re probably right.

This is an example of the small sandbox some firms guide you towards…if

you haven’t even looked at what options you have, it’s hard to say you’ve

really done much due diligence before making recommedations. Since

you’ve been quite forthcoming in outlining some of your current model’s

limitations, but still haven’t even looked outside the box, that’s telling.



Nowhere can you hold EVERYTHING, but the fact is that you cannot be

compensated for keeping good stuff you bring over (by having no-load stuff

in a fee-based account). For the average, or perhaps majority of people EJ

has on board, that leads to finding a way to sell 'em and buy something else,

regardless of the quality of what’s being sold. It doesn’t make them bad

people, but as Bachmann says–you have to “get the incentives right.”

I think you misunderstood me. I meant that I only look at the list of funds

we can hold when someone presents something to me that I don’t think I

can hold. Most of the funds that people have brought to me, we have

been able to hold, so it was not necessary to study the list of 14,000

funds. I don’t use that list to start my research. I get my ideas from the

same places as everyone else; colleagues, mags, newspapers, internet

research, whatever. When I find a compelling idea that I think I might

want to use, I go about researching the investment.



You may be right about others at EDJ. I don’t know. I am not going to

excel by limiting myself to the Preferred Funds. But there are a lot of

great options available, so I do use them, just not exclusively. And yes, it

limits us because of breakpoints, blah, blah, blah. But that’s my problem

to deal with, not yours. My clients likely do just as well as others, based

on what I see come over from other firms.

This is a little off-topic, but that is specifically one of the major issues I have against mutual funds.  By law, no one can know anything that no one else knows.  As a result, no mutual fund consistently beats it’s peer group year in and year out.  They all revert to the mean at some point.  So what’s the point of a client paying substantial management fees?  The client isn’t getting anything for his/her money.

[quote=Starka]This is a little off-topic, but that is specifically one of the major issues I have against mutual funds.  By law, no one can know anything that no one else knows.  As a result, no mutual fund consistently beats it's peer group year in and year out.  They all revert to the mean at some point.  So what's the point of a client paying substantial management fees?  The client isn't getting anything for his/her money.[/quote]

Then use index funds.  Cheaper and many will argue the better option.

[quote=gad12]

[quote=Starka]This is a little off-topic, but that is specifically one of the major issues I have against mutual funds.  By law, no one can know anything that no one else knows.  As a result, no mutual fund consistently beats it's peer group year in and year out.  They all revert to the mean at some point.  So what's the point of a client paying substantial management fees?  The client isn't getting anything for his/her money.[/quote]

Actually, I use a lot of things that aren't mutual funds.

Then use index funds.  Cheaper and many will argue the better option.

[quote=Starka]This is a little off-topic, but that is specifically one
of the major issues I have against mutual funds.  By law, no one
can know anything that no one else knows.[/quote]



But it’s what they do with the information that makes the difference.

[QUOTE]As a result, no mutual fund consistently beats it’s peer group
year in and year out.  They all revert to the mean at some
point.  So what’s the point of a client paying substantial
management fees?[QUOTE]



To pay for the portfolio manager’s yacht and the extensive mutual fund distribution system everywhere else.

Look at the DFA website. www.dfaus.com.  Plenty of ammunition to support Starka's point.

When one takes trading costs (which are not calculated ) into the true cost of ownership, www.personalfund.com, it is difficult but not impossible to make the case for active management vs. passive.

[quote=Starka] By law, no one can know anything that no one else

knows.[/quote]



There are things much more important than performance. For example,

in the distribution years of retirement, you can’t afford the std deviations

you get from the indexes. In addition, when the market gets thrown all

out of whack (i.e. the late '90’s, then the early 20’s), indexes are

extremely inefficient. They can’t adapt since they are not managed. I am

not saying that every MF manager knows the right answers in every

situation, but there are certain money managers I trust to manage my

clients money more than I do the wisdom of the “market”. Yes, you can

re-balance what indexes you hold, but then you are betting your skilss

against talented money managers. Not a bet I want to make.



I manage to minimize risk, not beat some arbitrary index.

[quote=Broker24]

There are things much more important than performance. For example,

in the distribution years of retirement, you can’t afford the std deviations
you get from the indexes.[/quote]



I would fire you as my advisor if you told me something that stupid.



Are you unaware of portfolio risk management? How about reducing your
exposure to market volatility by scaling back the allocation to stocks
in the portfolio?



Clearly I need EDJ’s preferred funds over good asset allocation using the cheapest exposure to the underlying asset classes.

[quote] In addition, when the market gets thrown all

out of whack (i.e. the late '90’s, then the early 20’s), indexes are

extremely inefficient. They can’t adapt since they are not managed.[/quote]



What exactly do customers pay you for again?

[quote]I am 
not saying that every MF manager knows the right answers in every
situation, but there are certain money managers I trust to manage my
clients money more than I do the wisdom of the “market”. [/quote]



Sure, people make a fuss about how Bill Miller beat the S&P 500 for
15 years. Did anyone ever check the performance of the S&P 600
Value index over that time frame?



I rely on your customers to keep the market’s effecient for my customers.

[quote]Yes, you can  re-balance what indexes you hold, but then
you are betting your skilss against talented money managers. Not a bet
I want to make. [/quote]



If you arent a talented money manager, why are you managing people’s money?



And what pray tell is the track record of “talented money managers” on the whole vs passive market indexes?

[quote]
I manage to minimize risk, not beat some arbitrary index.

[/quote]



Portfolio risk is a function of asset allocation.