H&r block
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Sorry for the poor grammer…already home today and posting as i am watching TV.
[quote=BankFC]
Mike,
It's called a forum...people post. I don't think your opinion or anyone else's is going to shatter anybody's world. So why do you keep asking why should he care?
[/quote]
I thought the point was pretty obvious, but, if you need to hear it again; If you’re happy where you work and with what you do, why should you get wrapped around the axel if someone in some other firm looks down on your place of business? IOW, if that sort of thing gets under your skin, you might want to examine just what makes you so lacking in self confidence. Why should someone need that sort of external, anonymous approval? Do what makes you happy.
[quote=BankFC]
What basis is their for anyone to think banks are third tier to wirehouses.
[/quote]
You need me to spell it out for you like “youcan” did? It really sounds obnoxious to point out the obvious, like the Porsche owner explaining to the Miata owner that the two cars aren’t in the same caliber. Didn’t I tell you I’m a Porsche owner who’s a big enough guy to not need to spoil the Miata owner’s fun? But, since you asked…..
[quote=BankFC]
99.9 percent of the products at wirehouses are available at banks.
[/quote]
Sorry, I’m just not buying that. The best you can claim is you have everything a wirehouse offered five years ago. Ask yourself if any washouts at ML end up in bank programs. Now, ask yourself if any bank washouts end up at ML.
Of the two types ask yourself; Who gets handed leads? Who NEEDS to have leads handed to them (didn‘t they prove they needed it handed to them when they washed out at ML)? Who isn’t trusted by their employers to handle big money (and send that money instead to the Trust/Private Bank section of the bank). Who can lose an account because their client got poor treatment from a teller or got bad news from the mortgage department? Who works in a lobby, or worse yet, has to work between a number of lobbies? Who gets better training? Who has to show up at cheerleading sessions for the bank side? Who has “call nights” where they have to monitor the calling skills of the series 6 employees? Who’s looked down on not only by their own private bank “peers” by the bank’s outside, freestanding brokerage channel? Who spends their days relegated to selling fixed annuities to people unhappy with CD rates? Who‘s a “player“ (even if only in their little minds) and who‘s following $2k teller leads?*
* Every item on this list is a feature of at least one large bank brokerage.
[quote=BankFC]
Tell me how by clearing through ML it makes you a better broker than clearing through National Financial or Pershing?
[/quote]
If you think this is about “clearing” you’re hopeless. Just let it go, a Miata is a fun car and that’s all that should matter to you.
Mike
Ever see a client with Merril Lynch Funds, UBS Fuds, AMEX Funds how is that for proprietary BS.
Pershings platform offers SMA's, UMA's a number of fee based and fixed income options.
What's the difference for getting turned down for a mortgage at the bank and getting turned down for a mortgage from a wirehouse? NOTHING
Lobbies have potential clients in them. THAT'S GOOD (I would never accept a position where they have your desk in the lobby, your important and need an office). We don't have call nights or series 6 employees although I don't see the problem with coaching people who add to your paycheck/production. Do you spend time with your junior broker same thing. Oh wait your not there yet.
Haven't sold a fixed annuity in a while. Hopefully the MYG rates go up because at times annuitties pay darn good rates for clients. I locked some people in at 7% five years ago in an ING product those are coming due now and those people are estatic about what were going to do next.
I would definately agree there is a perception that Merril may be more of a porsche environment, however, it is often filled with wannabees. Build a business and everything falls into place. You keep working with your A clients they introduce you to more A clients and you keep moving up the food chain.
If it helps you as a person to work for a firm that has a porsche rep, if that is an environment you will thrive in good for you. I just don't get why you would want to start with no book, no potential customers and have a firm take half your production for their nice office and fancy name. If I were going to do that I would find an indy with a nice office and tell him I'll give him 10% for a desk and go with LPL or rayjay or whoever he uses you'll get 80-90%.
2K accounts are for junior, however, I can't tell you how many Roth IRA's I have opened that are now A relationships the number is over 35.
[quote=SonnyClips]Butler
Bear with me for a minute, maybe it is more like Porsche vs. Mazda but remember an RX-7 would hand most Porsches there ass on the track and still have room for the family and save you a sh*tload in upkeep and insurance. And with the RX you get a rotary engine.
[/quote]
You're really out of your depth here. The Rx7 was a fun car, it was no Porsche killer. It was cheaper to own, but not any bigger than a 911 and with the need for replacement engines so common with the latter (93 and later, the only really competitive Rx7s) it wasn’t cheaper over all.
BTW, you're inviting when ever you like come join us at our local track. I think the pink group would be just find for you. We can loan you an approved helmet, assuming your head isn't as big as it comes off sounding like it is here.
[quote=SonnyClips]
"....drive both a 911 or a Boxster with your limited ability behind the wheel and see which is more fun. I can't imagine that you could handle a reverse lock slide in either of the Porsche's without winding up in a guardrail, both of the cars engine positions make for a rather complicated high performance driving experience. "
[/quote]
sigh... it's boring when people blather about things they know nothing about.... the 911 has a rear engine, the Boxster is almost completely negative with its mid-engine set-up. The two handle extremely differently on the track. These days, with 996s and 997s equipped with driving aids like PASM the old polar movement of the rear engine is vastly reduced. If you find the classic, unaided 911 too complicated to drive, stay home. The others on the track will thank you for it. Otoh, even the old hands chuckle about how great it is take a 930 out for a “spin”. ;)
[quote=SonnyClips]
I remember one time about ten years ago taking a Carrera for some hot laps at St Louis international and getting the inside front wheel off the ground.
[/quote]
Yawn... you and everyone else who's ever driving a stock suspension car around a track.... Lifting the inside wheel is a big deal to you? Geezze, I see that every time we run an AutoX or a DE in the parking lot of the local mall.
[quote=SonnyClips]Made for some interesting photos but I have to say I have seen more RX's just eat up a 911 because of their idiosyncratic handling, of course this is not true with the right driver but are you sure your him Mike?
[/quote]
That "idiosyncratic handling" has won more prestigious endurnace races than you’ve closed accounts over $100k. Perhaps you should move on to a subject you know something about.
BTW, I could only smile as I walked by my 993 on the way to the daily driver this morning after this little post of your. Now, Sonny, go knock on some poor unsuspecting middle income person’s door and get to work. ;)
[quote=SonnyClips]That is the 911 Carrera not the supercar.
[/quote]
The "super car"? You mean the Cup Car? Have you any idea what you're talking about?
[quote=SonnyClips]Nah, just wanted to take the bad metaphor to its conclusion. Porsche vs Miata Wha? I hate it when people use car metaphors. If you'll read closely I illustrate how the right environment can suit people differently. A bank for instance ...
[/quote]
With his vast experience, Sonny wants to explain the brokerage business and its many levels to us.
Go open a $2k IRA and sell an American Fund, will ya?
Ok. I can't help myself because the thread has evolved into car analogies. Comparing one brokerage to another, ML to Banks and Indy brokers and so on , and comparing what a car looks like, how good the driver is and what kind of engine is in the car is somewhat applicable.
I have a mechanic client who has a little piece of crap dented and paint scratched Chevy Luv pickup. (Lets compare that to the low bells and whistles of a Bank brokerage)
Because he is a master mechanic, he has loaded the truck up with a 425 hp chevy small block with a 700 R4 transmission and relocated the fuel tank to redistribute the weight to enhance the performance. Plus the car sounds sweet with the Flowmaster muffler. (Compare this to the back office support and product selections that are available to practically all of us on some level or another. Some brokerages offer more managed account options than others. Some limit their mutual funds selections...BPD are you there? But basically we have pretty much the same options to choose from. It what you choose to use and how you use it.)
Because he is also a super driver, he knows how to handle his little piece of crap looking LUV and when he goes to the drags he blows the doors off of the slicker looking cars. The crowd comes to their feet when he wins because his car just looks so bad but smokes them all. Don't we love the underdog (Compare this to the ability of the broker to be able to choose the products to get the performance out of the portfolio....driving the portfolio to success if you will)
He has basically built a bullet proof combination that is all go and no show. Isn't that what our customers would like from us.
Wait a sec, BL not only works finance, she plays games online, drinks G&Ts, is a self-professed MILF and knows cars (even if they're dragsters and not sports cars ;) )?
That set of facst is far more important than anything else we've discussed in my memory here.
Cheers to BL and women like her
Mikey,
You continue to use the "car" metaphor because you can't make a REAL valid argument as to why a wirehouse is SO MUCH BETTER than a bank.
News flash there Mikey...I've been in both. I worked at ML. I made my goals. I left not because I NEEDED to be handed accounts, but because it is MUCH more efficent to gather assets WHERE ASSETS ARE HELD. You think you're a better broker by being at a wirehouse? Nope, you are just in a less efficent model for gathering assets. I know that might be a hard concept for you to fathom, but try.
Yes, people do go from bank to brokerage... Just ask Rightway.
I can do the same accounts you can. Name ONE common account type available ina wirehouse TODAY (not 5 years ago) that isn't available through a bank brokerage structure. I named all of ML's, or all the common ones anyway. WE EVEN HAVE THE EQUIVALENT OF MERRILLS ALL MIGHTY CMA. Everybody does.
I have a $50,000 account minimum and an "implicit" (I told my brach folks) referral minimum of $100,000. I don't chase $2,000 IRAs...those people do bankside IRAs.
Here's a fact for you. BANKS DON'T TRAIN. You know what that means? It means they hire experienced reps. I would rather have, all else being equal, a rep that's been in the business at the bank than some kid right out of college with ML being his first job, and the only thing he's ever invested in is a checking account!!!
Don't tell me wires don't hire 22 year olds right out of college...I know better. Banks have a higher standard in WHO they hire to be brokers...rookies don'y get hired in bank brokerages TYPICALLY.
Fact is, you can't make ANY valid agrument why a wirehouse is vastly superior to the bank...because it isn't. All you can do is make obscure car comparisions. I WELCOME you to try to make a coherent argument.
[quote=mikebutler222]
Wait a sec, BL not only works finance, she plays games online, drinks G&Ts, is a self-professed MILF and knows cars (even if they're dragsters and not sports cars ;) )?
That set of facst is far more important than anything else we've discussed in my memory here.
Cheers to BL and women like her
[/quote]
Maybe it's just me, but BL sounds hot.
Wirehouse vs Bank...
Let's see who has a better deal, bank brokers vs wirehouse brokers.
Referrals:
Inherently part of the bank structure from both retail, commercial lending, and mortgage. Zero in wirehouse. Referral sources can be cultivated by both.
Account Types/Offerings:
Products and accounts have become a commodity therefore virtually a tie. I CAN and Do offer just as much as I did while at ML. Note: Wirehouses may have niche offerings useful/attractive only in the ultra high net worth arena.
Payout:
Wirehouses seem to range from 40-50%. My payout is from 30-40%, and is usually around 35%. Take note however that my payout is not based on a "haircut." Ex. ML credits upfront annuity business at 4.5% gross. I sell the same contract and it pays me 7% gross.
$100,000*4.5%=4,500 4,500*50%= $2,250 to the wire broker
$100,000*7%=$7,000 $7,000*35%=$2,450 to the bank broker
I make more money on my AVG payout than wire do on their HIGHEST payout on annuity business. PLUS I am paid currently 44.5 cents per mile, 6 percent into 401K, expense account, office and all supplies, seminars paid for and hosted by bank, VERY good bene...
Work environment:
Speaking in my experience only, bank is more laid back, less formal, and more family oriented.
I think I have made my case.
[quote=BankFC]
$100,000*4.5%=4,500 4,500*50%= $2,250 to the wire broker
[/quote]
ML has a 4.50% cap on Annuity comp?
It's long, but you asked for it.
[quote=bankrep1] <?:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" />
Mike
Ever see a client with Merril Lynch Funds, UBS Fuds, AMEX Funds how is that for proprietary BS.
[/quote]
Sure, and I’ve seen clients with Evergreen (Wachovia) and Marsico Funds (Banc of America). Did you have a point in this?
[quote=bankrep1]
What's the difference for getting turned down for a mortgage at the bank and getting turned down for a mortgage from a wirehouse? NOTHING
[/quote]
Wrong, the difference is the way it’s delivered. Your bank customer found out from a mortgage rep who treated him the way he treats every shlub. The wirehouse client was told by the broker, the only guy the client coems in contact with in the firm. The quarterback of the whole process. I noticed you left out the teller example. Oh, and your guy may well have found out via a letter ot an automated phone call. Ouch, that's gotta hurt.
[quote=bankrep1]
Lobbies have potential clients in them.
[/quote]
They also have the vast majority of traffic which ISN’T potential customer material. We call them "time wasters".
[quote=bankrep1]
We don't have call nights or series 6 employees although I don't see the problem with coaching people who add to your paycheck/production.
[/quote]
Coaching them for free, after hours? Still no problem with that? BTW, they don’t just “add” to your paycheck, they subtract from it too. They compete with you for potential customers and only invite you in after they’ve failed to sell the limited menu of things they can sell, or decided not to send the customer to the Trust Department for the referral money.
. Who knows how many potential customers they drive off with unsophisticated approached with poor products, or send to your betters at Trust.
[quote=bankrep1]
Do you spend time with your junior broker same thing. Oh wait your not there yet.
[/quote]
Jr brokers are 100% profit AND you don’t have call nights with them, much less ones directed and dictated by others. And YOU get to pick your Jr brokers.
[quote=bankrep1]
Haven't sold a fixed annuity in a while.
[/quote]
Sure you haven’t….
[quote=bankrep1]
Hopefully the MYG rates go up because at times annuitties pay darn good rates for clients. I locked some people in at 7% five years ago in an ING product those are coming due now and those people are estatic about what were going to do next.
[/quote]
ROFLMAO, sure you did. 7%, just 5 years ago. And that was a better rate than they could have earned outside of a fixed annuity.
[quote=bankrep1]
If it helps you as a person to work for a firm that has a porsche rep, if that is an environment you will thrive in good for you. I just don't get why you would want to start with no book, no potential customers and have a firm take half your production for their nice office and fancy name.
[/quote]
No, you’d rather have a bank hand you business and let them take 60%, not to mention the real money they keep from you by sending it to a bank profit center, like Trust.
[quote=bankrep1]
News flash there Mikey...I've been in both. I worked at ML. I made my goals. I left not because I NEEDED to be handed accounts, ....
[/quote]
Yeah, that’s the ticket. You were well on your way to success and decided a bank lobby fit you better. You know what? I bet most Division II college football players that played Division I FIRST, make the same claims.
[quote=bankrep1]
Yes, people do go from bank to brokerage... Just ask Rightway.
[/quote]
He’s the one. Now account for the vast majority that move the other way.
[quote=bankrep1]
I can do the same accounts you can.
[/quote]
Sure you can, and the Trust Department doesn’t take the REAL money from you. Oh, wait, it does.
[quote=bankrep1]
I have a $50,000 account minimum and an "implicit" (I told my brach folks) referral minimum of $100,000.
[/quote]
Of course you do, and the bank (or your manager) doesn’t have any problem with the money left on the table from accounts you refuse to handle. I bet they never say anything like, “Wait a sec, pal, the reason WE GIVE YOU ACCOUNTS is because we want you to take them all, no refusals. BTW, we’ve just hired Bob and he’s taking three of your four branches.”.
And I have no doubt you handle Exchange Funds, buy/sell agreements, trusts, endowments, private placements, option strategies to off-set large positions, sophisticated estate planning, etc.. Oh, no, wait, the bank makes far more with the Trust Department and/or Private Banking doing that AND they can, by law, pay other bank employees MONEY to refer, that you can’t. Sorry….
[quote=bankrep1]
Here's a fact for you. BANKS DON'T TRAIN. You know what that means?
[/quote]
Sure, it means there’s always a good supply of washouts who couldn’t build a business and are happy to work anywhere where they can keep their licenses.
[quote=bankrep1]
Don't tell me wires don't hire 22 year olds right out of college...I know better. Banks have a higher standard in WHO they hire to be brokers...rookies don'y get hired in bank brokerages TYPICALLY.
[/quote]
Banks hire that 22 yr old (I’ve never seen a major wirehouse hire one, but I’m sure it happens, somehere) six months later when he’s washed out.
[quote=bankrep1]
Fact is, you can't make ANY valid agrument why a wirehouse is vastly superior to the bank...because it isn't. All you can do is make obscure car comparisions. I WELCOME you to try to make a coherent argument.
[/quote]
Hey, if you’re happy in the lobby (or the glass cubical just off of it) servicing scrapes that the Trust Department doesn’t want, attending cheerleading sessions with tellers, hanging with the guys with the ill-fitting suits driving Tauruses, by all means. In fact, I’d say BE HAPPY, just don’t try the “Oh, yeah, well I can do anything you can do” stuff. See, I didn't want to point out the obvious, but you made me do it.
[quote=Mike Damone][quote=mikebutler222]
Wait a sec, BL not only works finance, she plays games online, drinks G&Ts, is a self-professed MILF and knows cars (even if they're dragsters and not sports cars ;) )?
That set of facst is far more important than anything else we've discussed in my memory here.
Cheers to BL and women like her
[/quote]
Maybe it's just me, but BL sounds hot.
[/quote]
No, it isn't just you
[quote=SonnyClips]Just brought in an account from MS with a disabled guy whos holdings consisted of five tech stocks and a high yield bond fund.
[/quote]
And people are never mishandled with touchdown bonds and such where you are. Sorry, no sale.
OTOH, if you're serious, you should help that guy recover what he lost via the mishandling he got.
[quote=SonnyClips]
Butler, you say your into sports cars? What do you drive one of those big old ass 928 german corvettes to match your gold chains and your gaudy silk suit. Punk [/quote]
You really are poorly informed, aren't you.
1) I don't own a 928, but they were kick-ass GT cars with great power and comfort. They priced well above the 911 of it's day. Nothing like a Corvette.
2) Not being anything like a Corvette, 928 owners don't wear the gold chains and suits (leisure, btw, not silk. Silk suits in pastel colors are worn by drivers of Italian sports cars) issued to Corvette owners.
[quote=BankFC]
Wirehouse vs Bank...
Let's see who has a better deal, bank brokers vs wirehouse brokers.
[/quote]
Here we go again, sports fans. They guy playing single A is going to explain how life is better for him than a guy wearing a Yankees uniform.
[quote=BankFC]
Referrals:
[/quote]
Well, they can give you business if you can't do it yourself. OTOH, it may not be the business you want. Can you say 2000 $2k IRAs?
[quote=BankFC]
Note: Wirehouses may have niche offerings useful/attractive only in the ultra high net worth arena.
[/quote]
IOW, they only things I haven't got are things I can't use since REAL money gets taken from me and given to the Trust Department.
[quote=BankFC]
Wirehouses seem to range from 40-50%. My payout is from 30-40%, and is usually around 35%.
[/quote]
"In exchange for 2000 $2k IRAs and having the real money taken from me, I get a lower payout. OTOH, I COULD go back to a wirehouse and starve.
Oh, and the big payout on annuities doesn't cause me to push them, nope, not at all.
[quote=BankFC]
Work environment:
Speaking in my experience only, bank is more laid back, less formal, and more family oriented.
[/quote]
IOW, we don't have to wear the good, expensive stuff I did at ML, and besides, most of the guys look better in the logo shirts that match what the tellers wear.
Seriously, BankFC, give it a rest. You stop the "but I AM a bigtime broker" and I'll stop needling you. If you're happy where you are, for crying out loud, BE HAPPY. Life's to short to dwell on the fact that the big fellas don't welcome you to belly up to the bar with them.
Hey. Sonny, on a serious note, open all the $2k IRAs you can. We all did as new guys. There's nothing wrong with it as a new guy, even if I do haze your chubby butt about it.
OTOH, you don't know squat about sports cars
I’ve never read a mikebutler post until about 2 weeks ago. Are you always like this Mikey?