Indyone,

I was shocked but you were right.  BTW, BPD cant buy that fund.  It is not offered through his firm.

http://finance.yahoo.com/q/pi?s=TAVFX

That's a shame...Marty Whitman is a fine value manager and I've sure got him running part of my retirement account.

BTW, I was pretty sure that was the case, as the ONE account that moved to EDJ instead of following me out of the bank told me that they had to sell Third Avenue Value to make the move, along with several other of my best performers.  The customer was fed a line of sh*t about how they could hold the same funds at Edward Jones without paying my management fees.  The Jonser also told my client that I would probably move around a lot and asked him if he wanted to go through the transfer mess each time I decided that I wanted a better deal for me...what a lying jackass.  By the time they realized what had really happened, the damage was done.  The customer assured me that going forward, I would get the new money...he still likes the unethical Jones jackass and doesn't want to hurt his feelings.

...just one of many reasons that I would never work at EDJ and have no respect for the local Jones reps I have to deal with...

indyone,

isn't it funny when you hear a jones advisor on this site counter one of us with the is it all about the money?  I wonder why that advisor would slam your old client of one fund and into another - that too is why  I despise that firm and 99% of the advisors that work w/ them.

exdrone & csmelnix- I find in my practice that I am a lot more comfortable offering PZFVX and CVGRX rather than TAVFX.  Both of those funds are in my top 25 rankings. I hope you are having a wonderful holiday season, my best to you and your families!

noggin,

I know you well and still find your wit amusing.

BR

Noggin,

I appears that you do look outside the Jones box when advising clients.  How do you reconcile the fact that your payout is dramatically reduced when offering anything but A shares, and you clients have a much harder time reaching breakpoints when you use multiple fund families?

Do you just suck it up yourself and recommend C shares? or Do you diversify with A shares?

exdrone- That reduction in payout I do not like, however, if a C share is the most correct for that client that is the direction we go. It may cost me in the short run but in the long run I believe it to be the right thing to do. It is really hard to put a client in A shares if they tell you it may be quite some time before they reach a breakpoint, so I don’t like to do it.

noggin,

Thanks for responding.  When I was at Jones I pretty much did the A share thing to reach breakpoints.  With the few clients who simply did not want to pay the load, I used C shares and multiple families, always preferreds though.  Even with the preferreds I really felt good about puting those portfolios together.  I couldn't imagine doing the research of finding the best funds and either not being able to sell them or taking a pay cut to get clients diversified.  Jones doesn't even give you any real help with the research.  Sounds crazy but kudos to you for doing it.

90/90/90 (A, B, C) = payout I receive as an indy on all share classes.  It should be the same since I know my client and my firm doesn't. 

Being free to choose what I feel is best for my client without regard to a change in payout or some ridicoulous firm policy is especially liberating when having been at Jones.  I couldn't imagine going back there or even why someone would want to stay there when the indy channel exists in it's current form.

Zacko- If you want to go that route, You have to pay a ticket charge I don’t… Do you drop 1K orders for C shares?? Probably not because you would owe money on that trade.

Noggin..Your kidding me right?  Is that what they tell you at Jones? 

On small trades I will often DCA the $$ in so there is no ticket charge.  There is no ticket charge on SWPS on either buys or sells or for exchanges.  ALso, you can NEVER owe money on a mutual fund ticket because of a ticket charge.  You net out at zero...

If you did the math at most RJFS  practices you would find their net/net before office overhead such as rent, utilities, etc--at about 79-82%.  Mine was 81% this year.  My over head brought me down to 65% or so before taxes.  ANd, that's with a a fair amount of advertsing.  I could easily get it to 67-68% if I backed off on the advertising.

BOTTOM LINE--MOST OF YOU GUYS STILL AT JONES SPOUTING THE COMPANY LINE OR SAYING YOU HAVE "EXPLORED" IT and THE GRASS IS GREENER AT JONES COULDN'T BE MORE WRONG.  GOING INDY IS SIMPLY THE BEST PERSONAL AND BUSINESS MOVE YOU CAN MAKE...PERIOD

To find the smallest flaw in the indy channel and proclaim "It's better at Jones..I knew it all along"--just shows how far removed you are from reality.  Here are the facts IMHO, if your a 150k producer stay at Jones.  If your a 200k producer...it could go either way.  If your above 250k...it's noticeably better as an indy.  If your like me and did 700k this year...I took home about 12k NET more home per month than I did at Jones.  And those numbers are conservative as I write alot of shi t off.

Zacko- I was just playing with you. No need to blow a blood vessel… Gosh, don’t you have a sense of humor??

Noggin,

Not upset--just pointing out some facts that may help others.

It's that most people at Jones have no clue about what it's like as an indy and they base their opinion upon hearsay that comes from EJ Management or from un reliable third party info. 

It's cool man..

Better known as KOOL AID…

BigPayDay,    Per your 12/2 post:

Uh BPD, let’s reread your prospectus. C shares convert to R shares? I don’t think so. Try C to F. 



And I’m not disappointed at all about the conversion.  If the
client wants to buy a C share, this is a fair deal for them and for
me.  AF’s expenses are low, overall their returns have been
reasonable, they give us great service, so I can live with the drop at
10 years.  We have other fund companies with c shares that we
should get 200 bips a year in commiss to break even,ie-manager
turnover, bad performance, cap gain payouts, etc.



If the client is looking at 100k, they’re going to be shown all their
options, (fee, c, a) I’m probably going to do my best to steer them to
the A share for the breakpoint and the lower A share expenses.  In
the end, it’s their choice.  That being said…



What I would really like to do is to thank you and all your fellow
Jones buddies for your adoration of the “A” share.  What I call
the “bad” A share. Not the good A share, but the bad one. You know, the
one where the client’s paid a load, the performance has been crappy and
the expenses are 120 to 150 bips a year.  VanKamp, Goldman &
Federated have a bunch of these beauties and I LOVE them.  I just
put my AF C share with NO load, 1 yr cdsc &  10 yr CONVERSION
TO LOWER fees against the “BAD” A share with LOAD & HIGH expenses
that are NOT going down after 10 years.  Usually just showing the
prospect the extra fees/$$ they will be paying in years 11-15 after our
C share fees drop vs. the BAD A share is enough to get the ACAT
paperwork started.  If not, I just hand them the calculator and
have them figure out how many dollars they paid in “load” for their BAD
A share.   Conversion bother me? Naw. My secret wish is that
Weddle narrows your preferred families down to just Goldman, Fed &
Van Kamp and you open 20,000 offices.  I’ll retire 5 years early.



Per your comment on adding Goldman and LA to the EJ managed money
platform – well, it’s just stunning after all the abuse we’ve received
from EJ posters on fee accounts and C shares. Fee &  C shares
are screwing our clients but managed money is ok? what…?



I am not with a great firm.  I am with RJFS.  If I left for
another firm, I would never consider them great either. RJ clears my
trades, hopefully keeps me compliant &  provides backoffice
support.  The firm’s just a necessary tool.   You & I,
Zacko & Oracle, EJ, wirehouse or Indy, and all the other posters on
this board, you know we are the magic.  We are  the ones that
make great things happen for our client’s lives.  The more any of
us hide behind or depend on the persona of our firm, the less our
clients will see our greatness.  Our choice.



Merry Christmas everyone, Cerb







Cerb

OUTSTANDING…CERB

Cerb,

Nice words. 

On the C share conversion here's a little math....Let's say you build up 20 million over several years of working with American Funds C shares.  Which could be easily done if your doing a decent business.  20 million will generate $200k gross or about 190k NET if you are indy.  Are you prepared to have your net decline to only 40k or so?  Aprroximately a 150k DROP?  You will be working just as hard and servicing your clients with the best your town has to offer.  And also assuming the same responsibility AND liability as previously...so why the cut in pay?

Be fair to your client, but be fair to yourself at the same time.

I have taken my last hair cut on commissions, I earn them the old fashion way, with effort and results, and great customer service, and I will not apologize for getting paid very well for what I do for my clients, atleast now as an advisor, if they make more, I make more, and what's wrong with that?

If we loose money for our clients we might loose them, but again as an advisor, my income drops if their investments go down, and what's wrong with that?  

Let em all eat cake.............................