500 or bust?
3938 RepliesJump to last post
It is idiots like you that causes confusion with your “There is no deal” comments. Former part of management? Keep to yourself and your new firm
[quote=dartboard]
Folks , there is no deal. They think we are lucky to have " a job" .I am a former part of management at AGE. Even if we get something as producers it will be small. Don't you ...AGE People....remember how we .....behind closed doors, talked about banks ? Guess what ? We were right. It will never be the same. Leave the industry if Wells does not help clients the way AGE did . Leave ...if they do not provide full service for your clients . Leave if Wells does not give your clients the service they deserve. Because, if this merger does not produce the finest firm for clients, then someone else will, and that is where you should go.
[/quote] Dude. You were never part of "management". Fucking poser. At most, you were a branch manager, which is not part of the firm's "management". And based on your comments, I'd be surprised if you were even a branch manager. Regarding a retention, we were told there would be a retention...so there will be. It would be suicide for the firm if it decided not to at this point. Second, why would I "leave the industry if Wells does not help clients the way AGE did". Wouldn't I just leave the firm and go somewhere else. Also, Wells doesn't provide service to our clients, WE DO. What service did AGE provide for our clients. All we need is a firm to keep fees in check for the clients, provide a nice platform, and provide us reps with the service we need.[quote=dartboard]
Folks , there is no deal. They think we are lucky to have " a job" .I am a former part of management at AGE. Even if we get something as producers it will be small. Don't you ...AGE People....remember how we .....behind closed doors, talked about banks ? Guess what ? We were right. It will never be the same. Leave the industry if Wells does not help clients the way AGE did . Leave ...if they do not provide full service for your clients . Leave if Wells does not give your clients the service they deserve. Because, if this merger does not produce the finest firm for clients, then someone else will, and that is where you should go.
[/quote] as a former AGE broker, your comments are spot on. We heard for years about how a merger and working for a bank or a wirehouse would be a disaster. Ben used to say that it would be only a short term positive for shareholders, but long term would be negative for our clients, employees and shareholders. I heard this speach dozens of times at recognition trips, regional meetings, and conference calls. I know Wachovia has cut support significantly in the home office and that serious cuts at the branch level are coming. Their model for the branch is 1 support per 1.1mm in production for an office. They know that is not enough, so essentially brokers are forced to pay more out of their pockets to hire staff. Very simple minded. Brokers should be on the phone taking care of their customers, not doing BS work.Curious at the most basic level why no one will endeavor to define “original retention reset” or “original retention package restored”. Seems like a valid and very important question. Even if the askers (like myself) are just slow-witted, I would think someone would step in and show their knowledge.
It would mean restoring your $$ amount and time frame to what it was as a result of the AGE merger. Essentially, you would get the same deal, but the unearned portion of the original bonus would be subtracted. I think the original deal was for 6yrs, so you would really only end up with and additional 1/6 if you were an AGE guy. Keep in mind this is all speculation on this board. If Wells is smart, they will have some sort of stock component to it. A lot of my AGE friends are pretty bitter about their stock, restricted stock and options essentially going to zero. A lot of long term employees took major hits to their networths because of this merger. I feel really bad for the mid level managers in the home office, they won't get any retention bonus, their stock went to $5 a share and the bonus component of their pay was cut by 80%. Very tough year for those guys, especially those close to retirement.Curious at the most basic level why no one will endeavor to define “original retention reset” or “original retention package restored”. Seems like a valid and very important question. Even if the askers (like myself) are just slow-witted, I would think someone would step in and show their knowledge.
[quote=mnbondguy] [quote=dartboard]
Folks , there is no deal. They think we are lucky to have " a job" .I am a former part of management at AGE. Even if we get something as producers it will be small. Don’t you …AGE People…remember how we …behind closed doors, talked about banks ? Guess what ? We were right. It will never be the same. Leave the industry if Wells does not help clients the way AGE did . Leave …if they do not provide full service for your clients . Leave if Wells does not give your clients the service they deserve. Because, if this merger does not produce the finest firm for clients, then someone else will, and that is where you should go.
[/quote]as a former AGE broker, your comments are spot on. We heard for years about how a merger and working for a bank or a wirehouse would be a disaster. Ben used to say that it would be only a short term positive for shareholders, but long term would be negative for our clients, employees and shareholders. I heard this speach dozens of times at recognition trips, regional meetings, and conference calls.
I know Wachovia has cut support significantly in the home office and that serious cuts at the branch level are coming. Their model for the branch is 1 support per 1.1mm in production for an office. They know that is not enough, so essentially brokers are forced to pay more out of their pockets to hire staff. Very simple minded. Brokers should be on the phone taking care of their customers, not doing BS work.
[/quote]
It really depends on how WFC chooses to manage brokerage. If they allow brokerage to be run the way WS was run prior to the bank melt down things will be fine. Sadly, AGE brokers have no idea what that was like.
Ive said it before but if Wells did not want brokerage they would not have structured a deal to buy the firm as a part of the deal.
[quote=ryedog123][quote=dartboard]
[/quote] What service did AGE provide for our clients. All we need is a firm to keep fees in check for the clients, provide a nice platform, and provide us reps with the service we need. [/quote]Well looks like we know our answer already...WS is implementing higher fees, platform is no better or different than anyone elses really, and service has gone down considerably for the FA.....
If Wells is smart, they will have some sort of stock component to it.
****************************************************
Who the heck wants their stock? I have had enough and am fed up with having my net worth tied up in a company’s stock. Never again. They can keep the damn stock and any back end or deferred BS. What most FA’s need now is max upfront to make it through this downturn. I would sign on for a longer term with higher upfront in lieu of back end or stock component unless I am free to sell the stock at will and take proceeds.
I have one question I have posed before to those who believe there will be retention, no one has given a good explanation. If there was going to be retention dont you you think WFC would have said CLEARLY THERE WOULD BE???. Big producers have already left, medium guys have already left…With all the silence the top 10 brokers could have all left last month, last week or Friday. To me silence means no retention which is what very high up at WFC have told people I know. just wonder how anyone could think there would not have been a firm statement to at least keep people in their seat while they drag their feet or wait for everyones numbers to drop.
[quote=Sell High]
After reading all of this - I can say one thing for sure: No one has a clue. That's why these recruites saying that the brokers will be "Shocked" when they see the numbers are all full of it. Who do they talk to - no one has any solid info. All we can do is estimate from what we know is true. So, here's my estimate: One, Wells Fargo takes a long time to make decsions. Two, Wells Fargo has been more than fair - as an example I understand they gave 24 days vacation off the bat to employees with over 3 years in service. In my opinion that's very generous. Three, DL has always been a straight shooter. He says that there is retention so - there is retention in my opinion. Four, the markets probably coming back so if they're paying on trailing production through 12/31 - they're paying at a big discount. So they can afford to offer a 5 year retention at a good level and be sure to re-coup that over 5 years and the entire sales force would be locked in! Five - There will always be deals. Here's an example - you give me $500,000 a year for 7 years - 3.5 myn and I'll give you back $200,000 a year for 7 years and a $200,000 bonus in year 1. Of course, I'll write off that money so you have to pay taxes on all of it plus an extra tax break for me called phantom interest for you. So you give me 3.5myn and I'll give you 1.6 myn and big taxes. And, if your production trails off, I can fire you and get my upfront money back. That deal will be made every day of every year. So, if Wells wants to retain people they clearly understand their deal has to be about 1/2 to 3/4 of what a person can get from another firm. The going rate now, as I undersand it is 125% or more. The idea that deals are going away is crazy. Finally, technology has come up so fast that the independent channel is becoming more and more an option so that should keep payouts high. Because if one place pays 85% and another firm pays 34% the spread would be so wide it would make wirehouses obsolete. So payouts will have to stay high especially as the benefits wirehouses offered (name, technology, support, product choices) are reproduced and available at the higher payout from independents. This is all common sense to me. And I did hear someone suggest one thing - the retention will be all upfront with a 5 year note. Finally, Wells / Wachovia should have give us massive advertising in the next few months. If you're into sales, this might be a great opportunity to hit it and have a multi-million dollar ad blitz at your back.[/quote] Heard the same comment 100 times "Danny ..." Danny is not writing the check, and he has already submitted retention numbers twice (met with silence from what i have been told). Actually not total silence the 2nd time..No ones business has been interupted or disrupted was the sentiment.I have one question I have posed before to those who believe there will be retention, no one has given a good explanation. If there was going to be retention dont you you think WFC would have said CLEARLY THERE WOULD BE???. Big producers have already left, medium guys have already left…With all the silence the top 10 brokers could have all left last month, last week or Friday. To me silence means no retention which is what very high up at WFC have told people I know. just wonder how anyone could think there would not have been a firm statement to at least keep people in their seat while they drag their feet or wait for everyones numbers to drop.
Obviously, you did not listen to the last conference call. The details about retention will be announced in mid January per Danny Ludeman. It can not be any clearer than that. People ALWAYS leave brokerage firms during transition of ownership. They did when Pru merged with WS, they did when AGE was acquired by WS. Each time retention bonus were granted to those who stayed.
If there is no retention, producers will leave in droves... it will completely and totally gut the firm. I have no idea who you are talking to but both the regional mgr and the complex managers have stated repeatedly that we will see retention and it will be announced in about 10-15 days.
[quote=fritz] I have one question I have posed before to those who believe there will be retention, no one has given a good explanation. If there was going to be retention dont you you think WFC would have said CLEARLY THERE WOULD BE???. Big producers have already left, medium guys have already left…With all the silence the top 10 brokers could have all left last month, last week or Friday. To me silence means no retention which is what very high up at WFC have told people I know. just wonder how anyone could think there would not have been a firm statement to at least keep people in their seat while they drag their feet or wait for everyones numbers to drop.
Obviously, you did not listen to the last conference call. The details about retention will be announced in mid January per Danny Ludeman. It can not be any clearer than that. People ALWAYS leave brokerage firms during transition of ownership. They did when Pru merged with WS, they did when AGE was acquired by WS. Each time retention bonus were granted to those who stayed.
If there is no retention, producers will leave in droves... it will completely and totally gut the firm. I have no idea who you are talking to but both the regional mgr and the complex managers have stated repeatedly that we will see retention and it will be announced in about 10-15 days.
So either you are full of it or DL is lying out his teeth. The guy has ALWAYS been a straight shooter and for guys running a brokerage firm he is by far IMHO the most honest of the group that I have ever been around[/quote]
Buki…you are probably right in comparison to ML, MS, SB etc Danny seems like a good guy…Ben Edwards he is not, but I also think he does not have the control and say that he once did. I think there will be a retention for some…not all, and it will probably not be what most are hoping for.
If there is no retention, producers will leave in droves… it will completely and totally gut the firm. I have no idea who you are talking to but both the regional mgr and the complex managers have stated repeatedly that we will see retention and it will be announced in about 10-15 days.
So either you are full of it or DL is lying out his teeth. The guy has ALWAYS been a straight shooter and for guys running a brokerage firm he is by far IMHO the most honest of the group that I have ever been around
[quote=fritz] If there is no retention, producers will leave in droves… it will completely and totally gut the firm. I have no idea who you are talking to but both the regional mgr and the complex managers have stated repeatedly that we will see retention and it will be announced in about 10-15 days. So either you are full of it or DL is lying out his teeth. The guy has ALWAYS been a straight shooter and for guys running a brokerage firm he is by far IMHO the most honest of the group that I have ever been around
This is my point, guys have already left, If it was priority #1 to not have guys leave you would have seen retention in November…
It depends on which managers you talk to…
Do not think DL is lying, he is trying…and I am not full of it, just passing along thoughts and what I have heard…Just dont understand how any intelligent person can explain that nothing has been done for 3 months and think that does not raise questions. Also do you think WFC is going to cut 5,000,000,000 to 10, 000,000,000 in up front checks?[/quote]
How long have you been in the business? As I said before, PEOPLE ALWAYS LEAVE DURING MERGERS. This is my 3rd merger and people always leave. Recruiters and rumors are ALWAYS telling you A) there isn’t going to be retention or B) Brokers wont be happy with the retention that is announced.
And YES I do believe WFC is going to cut checks that are probably SUBSTANTIALLY MORE than your figure. The Check they cut for the Moran Group alone will be in excess of 20 Million…
[quote=BukiRob2] [quote=fritz] If there is no retention, producers will leave in droves… it will completely and totally gut the firm. I have no idea who you are talking to but both the regional mgr and the complex managers have stated repeatedly that we will see retention and it will be announced in about 10-15 days. So either you are full of it or DL is lying out his teeth. The guy has ALWAYS been a straight shooter and for guys running a brokerage firm he is by far IMHO the most honest of the group that I have ever been around
This is my point, guys have already left, If it was priority #1 to not have guys leave you would have seen retention in November..
It depends on which managers you talk to...
Do not think DL is lying, he is trying..and I am not full of it, just passing along thoughts and what I have heard..Just dont understand how any intelligent person can explain that nothing has been done for 3 months and think that does not raise questions. Also do you think WFC is going to cut 5,000,000,000 to 10, 000,000,000 in up front checks?[/quote]
How long have you been in the business? As I said before, PEOPLE ALWAYS LEAVE DURING MERGERS. This is my 3rd merger and people always leave. Recruiters and rumors are ALWAYS telling you A) there isn't going to be retention or B) Brokers wont be happy with the retention that is announced.
And YES I do believe WFC is going to cut checks that are probably SUBSTANTIALLY MORE than your figure. The check they cut for the Moran group with be EASILY Twice your figure.[/quote] Agree the check would be larger than i put out there...where are they getting the money from. TARP II?? Can tell you that a buddy of mine who is in the top 5 in the nation for WFC brokerage has been told in no uncertain terms there will be no retention. Maybe things change, I dont know anything..but for people here who think its a "done deal" I'd be leary. Guys at ML just go basically zero who where doing under 500K, so when you say people will leave if nothing, where will they go?? Guys doing over 1 million, sure they have options..just not the case for guys 500K and under now. How will ML or BAC pay up front for new guys when they dont even care if their own stay? Or Smith Barney they just slashed the grid for under 400K, dont think they will pay money now for guys in that range.
They have the money, dont need TARP. As I said before WFC will make whole on current retention, and add in the following
0-249 Nothing 250-499 20% 500-749 40% 750-999 60% 1m-1.5 80% 1.5+ 100%[quote=fritz] [quote=BukiRob2] [quote=fritz] If there is no retention, producers will leave in droves… it will completely and totally gut the firm. I have no idea who you are talking to but both the regional mgr and the complex managers have stated repeatedly that we will see retention and it will be announced in about 10-15 days. So either you are full of it or DL is lying out his teeth. The guy has ALWAYS been a straight shooter and for guys running a brokerage firm he is by far IMHO the most honest of the group that I have ever been around
This is my point, guys have already left, If it was priority #1 to not have guys leave you would have seen retention in November…
It depends on which managers you talk to…
Do not think DL is lying, he is trying…and I am not full of it, just passing along thoughts and what I have heard…Just dont understand how any intelligent person can explain that nothing has been done for 3 months and think that does not raise questions. Also do you think WFC is going to cut 5,000,000,000 to 10, 000,000,000 in up front checks?[/quote] How long have you been in the business? As I said before, PEOPLE ALWAYS LEAVE DURING MERGERS. This is my 3rd merger and people always leave. Recruiters and rumors are ALWAYS telling you A) there isn’t going to be retention or B) Brokers wont be happy with the retention that is announced. And YES I do believe WFC is going to cut checks that are probably SUBSTANTIALLY MORE than your figure. The check they cut for the Moran group with be EASILY Twice your figure.[/quote]
Agree the check would be larger than i put out there…where are they getting the money from. TARP II?? Can tell you that a buddy of mine who is in the top 5 in the nation for WFC brokerage has been told in no uncertain terms there will be no retention. Maybe things change, I dont know anything…but for people here who think its a “done deal” I’d be leary.
Guys at ML just go basically zero who where doing under 500K, so when you say people will leave if nothing, where will they go?? Guys doing over 1 million, sure they have options…just not the case for guys 500K and under now. How will ML or BAC pay up front for new guys when they dont even care if their own stay? Or Smith Barney they just slashed the grid for under 400K, dont think they will pay money now for guys in that range.[/quote]
Fritz, with all due respect I get the impression you have either not been in the business very long or have never gone through a merger.
It is not normal for brokers of the parent company to get retention. When legacy WS brokers got retention (all deferred) it was considered rather novel. So I am not at all surprised that WFC bank brokers are being told they are not going to receive a retention. Secondly, brokers who are captive to the bank do not normally receive retention and in fact I can not think of a single case where a bank broker received retention as a result of a merger.
Citing ML and BAC as example is a bad idea as the cultures are completely different. Once again, it is clear you have not spoken to recruiters. My phone is constantly ringing and I do under 500K and have MULTIPLE options.
Frankly, the smart move is to move independent. Raymond James, or Schawb Institutional even LPL. They pay small upfront and in addition you can get up to 20% in a loan paid back over 2-3 years.
They have the money, dont need TARP. As I said before WFC will make whole on current retention, and add in the following
0-249 Nothing 250-499 20% 500-749 40% 750-999 60% 1m-1.5 80% 1.5+ 100%********************************************
Are you projecting all up front with these figures?