500 or bust?
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[quote=BukiRob2] [quote=mnbondguy] [quote=BukiRob2] [quote=mnbondguy] [quote=skbroker]yes i am sure all of the million dollar producers place all their clients assets into cash before the crash and avoided the 40 percent downturn. Most million dollar producer have either inherited a book, have wealthy connections or has been in the business for 40 years. [/quote]
Many have inherited books, but so have a lot of 300k producers. No question, that being in the right place at the right time, can really be a career builder, but, you still have to do a good job with your clients. Inherited books and family connections can give you a head start, but it can not get you to and keep you at 1mm+ in production if you don't do a good job. Happy clients lead to referrals, that is how you get to those production levels. I don't think a lot of million dollar producers moved all their clients to cash, but I do think they had them properly diversified with a mix of equities/ bonds such that their conservative clients aren't getting killed in this mkt. Remember, bond funds, especially leveraged ones, are not the same as bonds.[/quote] Head start??? What the guy said is true. 99% of the guys doing north of a million have a "story" Family connections with big money, been in the business 30+ years or they inherited a huge book. Nothing against guys who have family connections or are at the right place at the right time but, it truly galls me when I see/hear people who act they scratched and clawed there way to doing massive numbers when the reality is, they have a story. The most honest guys I know doing more than a million tell you it takes the bulk of a career to get to that level. Proper diversification did not keep you from getting smoked in this market and if you are saying other wise you are a flat out liar. Even if you had 50/50 mix between fixed income and equities (all caps, all styles including intl) You STILL got your arse kicked. ALL of the indices are negative for 2008 spare me the horse dung about you did ok. If you had money in the market place you got hurt PERIOD. Some of you are as bad as prospects that tell you that "they did ok" They cant tell you what the rate of return is in the entire asset base but they didn't get beat up like everyone else. CRB down, Real Estate down, Domestic equity indexes down, Intl indexes, down, Bonds down... yet YOU did ok because you had "proper diversification" Well pal unless your "proper diversification" was to be 100% in cash after early September you got beat up just like everyone else[/quote]
so how much should a retired conservative investor with a 70/30 fixed income/equity portfolio be down this year? If you used individual bonds, instead of bond funds and had a 5-7yr duration, you didin't do too bad. If you bought a bunch of "smart notes" and other crap jammed into retail, you probably had some issues. I only use agency bonds and munis for my customers, and all the muni I have bought for several years have been go's or water/swr bonds. I especially like bonds backed by some sort of school program.
I am a million+ producer, and I don't have a story. Nobody handed me anything. Have a happy new year...pal[/quote]
I dont care what your muni's are backed by. They got completely re-priced or did you miss that entire fiasco? Are you completely unaware that spread widen to historic levels? If you have a 70/30 mix you weren't down 40%, unless your an idiot, but by the same token that equity sleeve still got smoked.
Since you are so sensitive about the fact that "no body handed me anything" I suspect you DO have a story, otherwise why would you even care or comment?
[/quote] Muni Borrowers Plan $6.5 Billion of New Issues to Start Year
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By Adam L. Cataldo
Jan. 2 (Bloomberg) -- Municipal borrowers are hoping investors reinvesting dividends will boost demand for $6.5 billion of bonds awaiting sale after rising borrowing costs and the global credit crisis slowed transactions last year.
New York State Urban Development Corp. is scheduled to lead the market with more than $1 billion of bonds in a Jan. 8 deal managed by Citigroup Inc. Some of the proceeds will fund economic development and housing and will be repaid from state income taxes. The Virginia College Building Authority and borrowers from Florida and Pennsylvania are also scheduled to sell debt.
“Supply is a huge issue,” said Dan Solender, director of municipal bond management at Lord Abbett & Co. in Jersey City, New Jersey, which oversees about $8.5 billion of debt. With many dividend payments at the start of the year, “there is a lot of money to reinvest.”
Yields on top-rated 10-year municipal bonds remained at 3.91 percent, unchanged from Dec. 31, according to Municipal Market Advisors, a Concord, Massachusetts, research firm.
The municipal market ended 2008 with total returns down 3.95 percent, according to a Merrill Lynch & Co. index, its first annual loss since 1999 when the index fell 6.3 percent.
For 2008, 10-year debt yielded an average of 3.87 percent, reaching a high of 4.71 percent on Oct. 20 and a low of 3.28 percent on Jan. 23.
To contact the reporter on this story: Adam L. Cataldo in New York at [email protected].
Last Updated: January 2, 2009 16:20 EST Muni's were down 3.95% in 08 using Merrils index. Don't be confused about historical spreads, because the UST market is completely out of whack. A lot of pundits point out the relationship of UST's to corps, agencies and munis, and how cheap other bonds are. The real question is how overpriced are UST's? Every fixed income class looks cheap relative to treasuries. MY story, get up early, work all day.Hmmmm well, the universally accepted benchmark is the Lehman Muni index and its down almost 5% for the 1 year.
Everything looks cheap to treasuries for a reason and its NOT because treasuries are out of whack. Mer calling their money from Bear Sterns started this mess and caused a complete re-pricing of the entire fixed income market place. That event and the things that followed shortly after are what caused this entire meltdown. It caused everyone to question the validity of the rating of ALL fixed income which then led to questions about the solvency of all of the existing mtg… trusts and their valuations. Because of the mark to market rules in accounting for this highly illiquid underlying assets, banks were forced to take draconian estimates on failure rates. Additionally, many of these CDO’s MCB’s as well as other exotic structured products began to blow up because of liquidity issues, re-pricing issues and the beginnings of the housing mess, we saw a complete loss of confidence in the rating agencies as well as financial solvency concerns about the municipal insurer’s business. Muni’s not only were effected by the entire re-pricing of the market place but they then began to trade based on the underlying credit worthiness of the municipality. A school bond that was previously trading as AAA rated paper that had an underlying credit rating of BBB+ or A- saw significant depreciation during 2008.
The bottom line is anyone buying Muni’s all during 2008 saw HUGE moves in ylds. It doesnt matter if you are talking Go’s or Revenue bonds
Hmmmmmmmmmm well, down 3.95% for Merrill and almost 5% for lehman, is that significant? By school program I mean PSF,PUF, Q-SBLF, IN intercept etc, those bonds have done just fine. High grade muni's finished the year extremely strong. Take a look at Bairds muni fund, BMBIX....they kicked ass. You don't think UST's are out of whack?? How many long bonds are you buying for your accounts through a 3%? I agree that anyone buying muni's saw HUGE moves, but bottom line, the high grade market ended the year pretty close to where it started the year on yield basis, with the exception that the yields on short stuff inside of 5 years, dropped like a rock. If you bought hospital bonds or lease backed bonds , you got smoked. I personally don't buy those types of bonds for retail. But, I have started to use the ORNAX fund, I think at these levels, it is a good way to get exposure to the high yield muni mkt.Hmmmm well, the universally accepted benchmark is the Lehman Muni index and its down almost 5% for the 1 year.
Everything looks cheap to treasuries for a reason and its NOT because treasuries are out of whack. Mer calling their money from Bear Sterns started this mess and caused a complete re-pricing of the entire fixed income market place. That event and the things that followed shortly after are what caused this entire meltdown. It caused everyone to question the validity of the rating of ALL fixed income which then led to questions about the solvency of all of the existing mtg… trusts and their valuations. Because of the mark to market rules in accounting for this highly illiquid underlying assets, banks were forced to take draconian estimates on failure rates. Additionally, many of these CDO’s MCB’s as well as other exotic structured products began to blow up because of liquidity issues, re-pricing issues and the beginnings of the housing mess, we saw a complete loss of confidence in the rating agencies as well as financial solvency concerns about the municipal insurer’s business. Muni’s not only were effected by the entire re-pricing of the market place but they then began to trade based on the underlying credit worthiness of the municipality. A school bond that was previously trading as AAA rated paper that had an underlying credit rating of BBB+ or A- saw significant depreciation during 2008.
The bottom line is anyone buying Muni’s all during 2008 saw HUGE moves in ylds. It doesnt matter if you are talking Go’s or Revenue bonds
[quote=skbroker]
for some reason people percieve million dollar producer doing a great job for their client compared to those who are doing 300k. I am pretty confident these big prodicers has over 1000 accounts, place most in fee base managed accounts and have some junior broker service the smaller accounts. I would rather have 250 account that I can manage and service and bring value to the client. I mean can you really have over 1000 accounts and still do a "good job" for their clients? I dont think so
[/quote] you truly are a moron.... yeah-I'm sure you would like to have 250 clients. Based on your previous post the reality is you probably have 2mm AUM, not GP. And those are pretty easy to manage when you put them all into the same american funds... Are these big producers you talk about the same big producers that inherited their book? If you actually spoke to any "big producers", you'd know most run their business like a business-enabling them to increase their AUM and households while delivering far superior service to wanna-be's like yourself... I would be shocked, and leave quickly, if my doctor attempted to draw labs-instead of his nurse. Or my dentist tried to clean my teeth. Just the same as my clients would be shocked if I suddenly called them about RMD's, began filling out paperwork, or began taking calls about statements. Its all about choices--I choose to create a systematised and organized business as a financial professional with the respect and rewards thats come with it. Evidently, you choose to sit in a office all alone, in a shopping center-- next door to the chinese take-out place and call yourself a financial advisor, all while slinging the latest annuity product--gotta pay the bills, right?....yeah, your right--that does bring value to the client. After days of stting in that office, you just cant figure out why it never happens for you. Yet you read about producers that do more in a quarter than you do in a year. How in the world is that possible? They must have been given a book, right? I have a feeling you've been a victim, and gotten the short end of the stick your whole life...that wont change soon. to everyone else---sorry for the rant, tired of the bullshit.hey dumbfuck. do you really think someone who has more than 1000 account can really service and bring value to every clients? I am sure you and all of the other FA's code their accounts as ABC and service them accordingly. For those Fa's who are doing over a million in production don't have time to call those client who has $50,000 in a managed account so they get a little piker who just passed a series 7 and have them call every year so they can tell them the market is up this year and collect the fees. just because you are a million dollar producer doesnt mean you do a good job for your clients. lol
[quote=skbroker]
hey dumbfuck. do you really think someone who has more than 1000 account can really service and bring value to every clients? I am sure you and all of the other FA’s code their accounts as ABC and service them accordingly. For those Fa’s who are doing over a million in production don’t have time to call those client who has $50,000 in a managed account so they get a little piker who just passed a series 7 and have them call every year so they can tell them the market is up this year and collect the fees. just because you are a million dollar producer doesnt mean you do a good job for your clients. lol
[/quote]Let’s try to keep it professional here. Enough with the inappropriate language.
Here is a thought that most small producers who complain about big producers will never understand. Regardless if you have 250 households or 2000 households and do $1mm plus, if you were not bringing some sort of value to your clients, they would leave you. Small producers see accounts leave them and think it is because they did not call them 55 times in the past year. If you clearly explain your value to a client upfront, manage expectations, and show them that you have a plan to meet their goals, direct contact is a once a year 15-20 minute endeavor and your clients will tell their friends how great you are.
You must be the smartest and the best fa in the world if you are able to assess clients goals needs and analyze their investment by calling them once a year in a 15 minutes conversation. Than again if u r a multi million dollar producer it’s feasible
I team with my clients. They tell me their goals. I set up a plan. They tell me if the situation or goals change. Simple. When was the last time your doctor called you and asked if you were sick? BTW, I am not a million dollar producer, but I am in the top 25% of producers, which is just fine with me. I know many $1mm producers and many $350m producers, and in my experience the top guys work harder and smarter than the bottom guys who spend most of their time spinning their wheels.
Sam Houston…, you’re right on. Setting the expectations with clients is absolutely the right thing as well as educating them on your process. I like your phrase of the doctor calling to see if you’re sick. We need to find ways to add value to our clients other than calling to “touch base” or to see if they are sick. Value goes a lot further than that.
Not to get off the point of who does a better job for their clients, but I thought this was supposed to be about a retention package. Someone said for legacy AGE that they thought we would be reset to our old package. Does anyone think that they would use the old retention package and reset it with todays TT numbers. I have increased my production greatly since the WB retention and would be happy with that.
I am also interested to know when anyone thinks the official name change will happen. I myself can't wait to have the WB name gone.I agree with Sam. Let’s get the name change process going asap. We will know about the retention soon enough.
Change the name, fix the home office, retention package. In that order… within the next two weeks.
[quote=Sam Houston]Change the name, fix the home office, retention package. In that order… within the next two weeks. [/quote]
Not sure how they can fix the home office when they are the ones that f’d it up…before WS came to town the Home office WAS great…
When everyone mentions resetting the original retention what do you mean by that? Another check in the same amount, or miuns what we have been forgiven?
Groupie
Joined: Aug. 23 2007
Posts: 51 Post Options Post Reply Quote WSxAG Report Post Quote Reply Posted: Dec. 31 2008 at 3:07pm I've read research reports with more suspense. Since New's Years is the time for predictions - here's one; Legacy AGE - Less than $350k - No retention. Greater than $351 -750k original retention restored with new timeframe and NON-Compete. $750 and above gets original restored and immediate vesting of deferred $$. WS - See Merrill Package
WSxAG, what do you mean by original retention restored. Do you think we get the original payout with todays numbers?
Folks , there is no deal. They think we are lucky to have " a job" .I am a former part of management at AGE. Even if we get something as producers it will be small. Don't you ...AGE People....remember how we .....behind closed doors, talked about banks ? Guess what ? We were right. It will never be the same. Leave the industry if Wells does not help clients the way AGE did . Leave ...if they do not provide full service for your clients . Leave if Wells does not give your clients the service they deserve. Because, if this merger does not produce the finest firm for clients, then someone else will, and that is where you should go.