500 or bust?
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Common Sense - is that true? Is that how it will be paid out? Good Grief! You’re right about “TYING” the client down to ENVISION and/or the firm. That’s another bank ploy for sticky assets.
Common Sense, that was far too much math for me. Upside of todays call was it confirmed my future. Since his initial address to us at A.G, every time DL has opened his mouth, an avalance of bullshit has spewed out.
Thank goodness thats coming to an end.
[quote=Broker Fee][After spending 9 dark years with Ameriprise (then IDS) during the 1980’s (half of that time I was a branch manager) I can tell you from personal experience that anytime a dealer tells you that they will compensate you for writing financial plans on clients that there is a hidden agenda.
[/quote] The agenda is to get their tentacles deeper and deeper into your business. Envision plans when saved, then go off to compliance where big brother keeps a watchful eye on your accounts. If the market corrects or a client pulls out money you may find yourself getting contacted by compliance telling you to call those clients. Correct me if I am wrong but the 4front plan minumum is $250k and must be new money, and must represent a majority of their housholded value in managed accounts. It is a ruse. PS. AGE guys. If you had your picture and bio on your web page for clients to see each time they log into their account... you may not have noticed but on the new WS site you have been vaporized. Why doesn't WS want your clients to see you anymore?don't forget to adjust for taxes...
it's the "stripped-down-hyundai monthly car payment" retention!I have been saying for a couple of months we would not get anything, I even posted what Danny would say
Where is the Wachovia retention deal?Posted: 05 Feb. 2009 at 7:18am To Danny Ludeman, In respect to your request for a retention for your advisors we can not in this current financial and political environment risk our reputation and capital base on such an endeavor. Thank you for your input and keep an eye out for the new Wells Advisors stage coach that is on the way to run your ass over if you ask us agian.
I am AGE and new to the 4front plan, but I have been looking into it
over the last few months. As I read the new plan this afternoon, it is
not a deferred comp plan anymore. At least the .25%/.5%/.75% portion
isn’t. It is based on how many qualifying ($250K) HH w/ a plan and the
rest of the junk. When you reach 25, you qualify for a max bonus of
.25% of the assets in those 25 HH. Here is the catch. Each HH will be
rated as to how much of the money is fee based and you bonus will be
multiplied by that. If a HH is 60% fee based, you only receive 60% of
the award (.25%) for that HH.
So, If I have $20MM in my 25
HH’s and they are on average 60% fee based, my bonus is: $20MM x 0.0025
x 0.60 = $30,000. Sounds great, but here is the other catch. It is
paid out monthly over 108 Months!!! That’s right, 9 years!!! My
$30,000 bonus nets me a whopping $278/month. I’m not sure that is
worth tying my clients so closely to the firm and getting them so
reliant on Envision and tracking thier ‘dot’ that I can’t move later.
Sell my soul for $278. wow…
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Its all smoke and mirrors and will not put any meaning comp into anyones paycheck in my opinion. And yes forefront is all based on fee based products which are all running for the hills now. When you bring in new fee based assets and the market erodes the value, forefront is directly impacted by that and your net is what you brought in less attrition and market loss. Mkt gains will add obviously, but that has not been the reality in Forefronts history.
Seeking recruiters… OK, I know that this is dangerous. Our team has given up and is finally ready to look at Plan B. I don’t want to hear from anyone who is a recruiter trolling this site. I only want referrals from happy advisors. Trust me, I am going to check you out if you try to fool me.
If you have used a recruiter and would refer him to a large team, I want to know. I don’t want a rookie. I don’t want a troller. We are 3 advisors w/ $2+MM T12, $300MM, clean records and nice smiles. Please PM me w/ thier number and yours so I can get the real scoop on how you were treated.
We are not mad at WFC and ‘running from them’ to punish them. That is always the wrong reason to leave. You can’t run from something bad. You have to ‘run to’ something good. We are taking this announcement as a sign of a culture change. It seems now that the advisor has no worth and is a commodity in the eyes of the bank. In that environment, things will get very ugly for us and our clients. Think how they are going to treat our clients (their clients) if they are treating us this way. So much for freedom to do business our own way (fee based incentives and comp plans favoring fee based), no call centers (the Investor Resource Team is on the way), trust in management, no profit centers, clean image, not paying to recruit brokers because it disrespects those you already have and attracts guys w/ the wrong motivation…and all the rest. Sorry for the mild rant. I feel better now.
To reitterate: If you were extremely happy and found a real pro, please PM me w/ his number and yours.
As I said yesterday. We are on the Titanic. Did you see WFC stock price today? Of course they don’t want to pay us. However, the truth is they have NO money. This ship is going down. The captain has been lying to us all along. There is no glory in staying onboard this ship and descending into the abyss. If you don’t leave now all the lifeboats will be gone and by the way so will your clients. What self respecting client want to be associated with a failed bank. Trust, loyalty, integrity and honesty, the words a broker lives by are not words management adheres to. The call today was insulting to me. Smoke and mirrors. I can’t believe management was stupid enough to think 4front was a great idea in lieu of retention. Pathetic!
The king is dead. Long live the king.
I would love to know how many FAs were in WS Jan 1,09 and how many are still there Apr 1,09.[quote=Client1st][quote=Broker Fee][After spending 9 dark years with Ameriprise (then IDS) during the 1980’s (half of that time I was a branch manager) I can tell you from personal experience that anytime a dealer tells you that they will compensate you for writing financial plans on clients that there is a hidden agenda.
[/quote] The agenda is to get their tentacles deeper and deeper into your business. Envision plans when saved, then go off to compliance where big brother keeps a watchful eye on your accounts. If the market corrects or a client pulls out money you may find yourself getting contacted by compliance telling you to call those clients. Correct me if I am wrong but the 4front plan minumum is $250k and must be new money, and must represent a majority of their housholded value in managed accounts. It is a ruse. PS. AGE guys. If you had your picture and bio on your web page for clients to see each time they log into their account... you may not have noticed but on the new WS site you have been vaporized. Why doesn't WS want your clients to see you anymore?[/quote]
Wow, he'd right! I just signed on. We used to have a large picture of us along with a profile. Now, there is a tiny link at the top of the screen that you have to click to even see my name. Bad omen!
DL has done a great job for WS and legacy AGE people. Quit your whining. Im a legacy AGE guy and his speech today was inspiring. Ill be damned if Im going to walk away for 50% upfront and 50 on the back end when I can all that money from selling my clients on the ENVISION process. DL says its good for me, my clients and America-Im all in!
[quote=CommonSense]
[quote=NCGNTO] [quote=Herman Munster] [quote=Broker Fee]Reading through the last 5 pages of this thread actually made me bust out laughing, as I understand it you Wells guys have a financial plan software named “envision”.
There’s another firm out there that operates on the same basis…the name of this firm is called…Ameriprise!
I specualate that Wells is simply ramping up all you guys to “train” you to do financial plans for your clients in order to “orient” you to the Ameriprise way of doing things. Don’t be surprised if another shoe on this sad saga plays out & you all find yourselves as Ameriprise financial advisors one day!!![/quote]
This is great.
It reminds me of when I was at Merrill and they wanted us to do the Financial Foundations at a cost of $250 each. It was a POS but you did them to keep the manager’s foot of your ass.
I made them up. The client never existed. Then the insurance guy would call me up and say “I think there’s an insurance case in the plan you submitted for XYZ client”. I’m thinking to myself “there is no XYZ client. It’s all made up”.
I smell opportunity. IF W/S wants to compensate you for Envision plans just crank them out. If they’re bull–it who cares. Let them repeat Merrill’s mistake and take their money.
Lastly - As I said before = Retention = WFC hat and spongy stagecoach. See yoiu by the water cooler Monday.
[/quote]
Do keep in mind the 4front will be paid as deferred comp. with a 5 year vesting skdl…have fun with that!!! The way I look at this, I have something vesting about every couple of years with all this crap…[/quote]I am AGE and new to the 4front plan, but I have been looking into it over the last few months. As I read the new plan this afternoon, it is not a deferred comp plan anymore. At least the .25%/.5%/.75% portion isn’t. It is based on how many qualifying ($250K) HH w/ a plan and the rest of the junk. When you reach 25, you qualify for a max bonus of .25% of the assets in those 25 HH. Here is the catch. Each HH will be rated as to how much of the money is fee based and you bonus will be multiplied by that. If a HH is 60% fee based, you only receive 60% of the award (.25%) for that HH. So, If I have $20MM in my 25 HH’s and they are on average 60% fee based, my bonus is: $20MM x 0.0025 x 0.60 = $30,000. Sounds great, but here is the other catch. It is paid out monthly over 108 Months!!! That’s right, 9 years!!! My $30,000 bonus nets me a whopping $278/month. I’m not sure that is worth tying my clients so closely to the firm and getting them so reliant on Envision and tracking thier ‘dot’ that I can’t move later. Sell my soul for $278. wow…[/quote]
Bummer man just delivered. Do these stage coach riding yahoo mf’s really think we are so inept that we will allow those stage coach riding mf’s to run us over like the beer truck that my wb manager runs me over with every day??? Hmmm…I need to regroup…sorry.
[quote=dannysboy]
DL has done a great job for WS and legacy AGE people. Quit your whining. Im a legacy AGE guy and his speech today was inspiring. Ill be damned if Im going to walk away for 50% upfront and 50 on the back end when I can all that money from selling my clients on the ENVISION process. DL says its good for me, my clients and America-Im all in!
[/quote]Uh, your joking aren’t you???
Couple things to think about.
1. I have a friend at ISG and WS tried a envision incentive a few years ago. At the end of the year WS saw how much they would have to pay out and changed the rules leaving my friend and may others with no time to jump the the new hoops. they only paid out less then half what they owed advisors Don't trust them to pay 2. also in case DL slipped it past you a componet of 4front is the client will have to return a survey that says you honored your commitment to service. In the call today DL mentioned this. So if one of your 25 people forget to send in the form or throw it away as junk mail you are screwed They will not pay don't be a suckerDid you ever get the feeling that you were on the TITANIC…
There are not enough life boats out there...... I worked in ISG and waited and waited for this infamous RETENTION package........I decided to stop waiting about 2 months ago and got the HELL out.............glad I did . What a load of bullshit....I was sick of the conference calls...There are going to be a lot of folks looking to bail out at this point....bottom line is that those who stayed behind have lost a lot of leverage....There are only so many life boats and FAR to many passengers. Maybe you can use one of those old rusty F__IN stagecoaches.. Seriously though there are still some deals to be made and bottom line is if you stay behind ...does it really make sense to be STUCK where you are with a bunch of LIARS....It felt good to get out...you should try it! I felt that once the companys integrity was gone that was it for me...... The INTERGRITY is LONG GONE!!!!!!!!!!! Get off the stage coach while you can!Yes I am-WFC,I believe either underestimated the amount of loss they will have or they dont care. Between the inferior operating system, the pay foulups, the lack of competent courteous service in home office, the lack of bonus,trips,etc,etc. The loss of the remaining AGE people (around 5400 I read) will come soon (after the week of March 16). Not all, but most decent producers will be history. The part that most aggravated me today was the reference of Ben Edwards by DL. Adios WFC.
Im not surprised that WFC Fukced us FA’s.
They are an old school conservative MF bank.
They dont want non-bank FA’s
If you stay you nuts or a pussy.
this is the tip of the iceberg
there is no way DL has any input
well fargo advisors (I hate that MF name)
I hate that GD stupid stage coach
DL and WS is a thing of the past
DL is a great man and a great ally to brokers
its sad.
WFC tried to dump us to UBS.
i wouldnt be surprised if somehow they tried to fukc UBS.
f wells fargo
ill always love wachovia bank and wachovia securities
you AGE guys dont realize how great DL is
i dont blame you for hating ws and DL
but it is just some of the sad nasty stuff going on in the business in last 12 months
Im so surprised DL has not bolted.
i didnt think he would ever bag us and let those cokc scukers at wfc f us
DL doesnt need to work.
he should have told them to KMA
this is tip of teh ice berg.
wfc gonna bleed WS dry
next step mark my words-gird cut
book it
within 6 months
got to get of MF titanic now
no other option
only hope is if there is JV with UBS or some other spin off
f wfc.
i hope their piece of crap stock goes the was of leh after i bolt
i hope every GD Oakland california crap loan goes bad
dicks’
The real question right now is …Is anyone still SOBER out there after this FINE day in the neighborhood???
It is a SAD day when Ed Jones looks like a better place to hang ones hat than WS. I still CANNOT believe that DL was trying to sell us on not getting anything! The details of this 4front is a joke. This firm could be cut in half after the March bonus checks from AGE. This sounds wore than the Pain Webber/UBS deal.