[quote=Primo]You have not been paying attention to society.  Intolerance vs. the majority is widely accepted.  Simply read this thread.  Intolerance vs. a “protected class” is bashed.  Most people (majority) have no problem with the Pledge, yet it is kept out of schools.  A minority of people think a gay pride parade is good use of an afternoon, yet if it were to be stopped, watch the lawsuits flood in.[/quote]

So… in order for the majority to be satiated, the minority need to be squashed?  Quite the opposite. I believe that was what Mills called ‘tyranny of the majority’. What does the Pledge in school has to do with Gay Parades? I believe the argument against the Pledge was the need to separate church and state. The Pledge said in a public school is different from a parade held on public streets how?  Both are held in public places.  The difference is one is based on religion, while the other is based on non-religion.  Since the majority believes in God, shouldn’t both be allowed in the pursuit of tolerance?  I could kill a minority while uttering a slur and be convicted of a hate crime.  The same situation in reverse does not apply.  Why?  Is the crime different simply because I am not a minority?  THis is my issue.  If tolerance is the game of the day, where is the tolerance for what I believe in?  That is a different topic entirely. There is nothing in society which stops you from doing the Pledge, or organizing a public forum where a group of people do the Pledge of Allegiance. Just like there is no movement to organize a gay parade in the public schools. Tolerance… Why is there a problem if a private group organize a parade? I thought Liberty and Pursuit of Happiness were two of the main tenants of the Declaration of Independence?

Primo -

This is an arguement that will never be won, ask any Iraqi.

[quote=Primo]The Pledge said in a public school is different from a parade held on public streets how?  Both are held in public places.  The difference is one is based on religion, while the other is based on non-religion. Since the majority believes in God, shouldn’t both be allowed in the pursuit of tolerance? 
[/quote]
One is in a publicly funded school system, the other is privately organized and funded. Yes, they are held in public places, but there is nothing preventing you from sending your children to a private school, where you will not be using public dollars. For the record, I am not advocating that the Pledge of Allegiance should be excluded from public schools, but I understand the basis for the challenge. I do not think we are comparing apples to apples in this example. The challenge for this is not an organized minority, it is a legal challenge in the court system.

[quote=Primo]I could kill a minority while uttering a slur and be convicted of a hate crime.  The same situation in reverse does not apply.  Why?  Is the crime different simply because I am not a minority?  This is my issue. 
[/quote]
I am not a lawyer, but i would agree with you if this is indeed true. I hate these type of examples, from either side of the coin. It is like the debate where it is often cited where African American males are vastly more likely to face the death penalty. The fact remains, that it is hard for white males to complain injustice. If you kill a Caucasian in our society, you are more likely to face the death penalty than if you kill a minority, that is a statistical fact, hate crime or not. That being said, it shouldn’t really doesn’t matter, if you kill someone in our society then justice should be equal for all, and on paper it is, it is our job (as the people) to hold the courts accountable. Forgiveness can be spiritual, but I can think of very few examples where those people deserve to ever walk free. This is less about revenge, and more about protecting our society. Hate crime… when does someone kill another where hate is not involved. But this is not about tolerance, I feel equally bad for the victim of a hate crime whether they are Christian or Gay or a gay christian…   

[quote=Primo]If tolerance is the game of the day, where is the tolerance for what I believe in? …
[/quote]
I don’t know what you mean game of the day… For myself, it is a personal choice. Sure, there are times where I feel my lifestyle is being persecuted because I happen to be part of the majority. But I shutter to think that I need to become militant about my beliefs and excluding of others to protect my way of life. This is tolerance, not conformity.

[quote=Primo]The Pledge said in a public school is different from a parade held on public streets how?  Both are held in public places.  The difference is one is based on religion, while the other is based on non-religion. Since the majority believes in God, shouldn’t both be allowed in the pursuit of tolerance? 
[/quote]
One is in a publicly funded school system, the other is privately organized and funded. Yes, they are held in public places, but there is nothing preventing you from sending your children to a private school,  Just as there is nothing preventing a parade on private property.  Streets are publically funded. where you will not be using public dollars. For the record, I am not advocating that the Pledge of Allegiance should be excluded from public schools, but I understand the basis for the challenge. Saying the Pledge does not advocate a religious preference, it is a pledge to our country, which provides the protections necessary to have a parade celebrating whatever you want to celebrate.I do not think we are comparing apples to apples in this example. The challenge for this is not an organized minority,my point exactly, it is a challenge to protect the minority number of students who may be offended. it is a legal challenge in the court system.

[quote=Primo]I could kill a minority while uttering a slur and be convicted of a hate crime.  The same situation in reverse does not apply.  Why?  Is the crime different simply because I am not a minority?  This is my issue. 
[/quote]
I am not a lawyer, but i would agree with you if this is indeed true. I hate these type of examples, from either side of the coin. It is like the debate where it is often cited where African American males are vastly more likely to face the death penalty. To me it really doesn’t matter, if you kill someone in our society then justice should be equal for all, and on paper it is, it is our job (as the people) to hold the courts accountable. Forgiveness can be spiritual, but I can think of very few examples where those people deserve to ever walk free. This is less about revenge, and more about protecting our society. Hate crime… when does someone kill another where hate is not involved. But this is not about tolerance, I feel equally bad for the victim of a hate crime whether they are Christian or Gay or a gay christian…   

[quote=Primo]If tolerance is the game of the day, where is the tolerance for what I believe in? …
[/quote]
I don’t know what you mean game of the day… For myself, it is a personal choice. Sure, there are times where I feel my lifestyle is being persecuted because I happen to be part of the majority. Where is your protection during this time.  They don’t exist. But I shutter to think that I need to become militant Who’s talking about becoming militant?  Typically, minorities become militant (litigious [sp?}) when they feel their rights are being violated, but someone like Spiff is bashed for an opinion that falls closer to the majority than the minority  about my beliefs and excluding of others to protect my way of life. This is tolerance, not conformity. I am all for being tolerant.  However, when does forcing the majority to be tolerant lead to conformity to the minority?

[quote=Ron 14]

Windy-Which version? Because there are over 100 MAN MADE books…in tons of different languages and all of them having different content…Hmm…better pick the right one to follow, or you’re going to hell…lol…

[quote=Primo] Just as there is nothing preventing a parade on private property.  Streets are publically funded.
[/quote]

Too tired to continue this one… and need to finish off some work… but one point I want to ask… you consider the use of public streets a subsidy? We are talking the First Amendment here… Freedom of Assembly. If a private organization wants to have a protest, or parade, in a peaceful manner, you would deny them that right?

There is nothing stop a gay parade, or a parade in support of reinstating the Pledge in Schools, it is an equal and comparable playing field.

There is nothing stopping anyone in our society from sending their kids to a private school, which better reflects their religious values. Obviously this is a costly alternative, but our society should not be in the business of subsidizing religious education.

[quote=Primo]… Didn’t Jesus show tolerance towards criminals?

[quote=kitcap]

[quote=Primo] Just as there is nothing preventing a parade on private property.  Streets are publically funded.
[/quote]

Too tired to continue this one… and need to finish off some work… but one point I want to ask… you consider the use of public streets a subsidy? We are talking the First Amendment here… Freedom of Assembly. If a private organization wants to have a protest, or parade, in a peaceful manner, you would deny them that right?

There is nothing stop a gay parade, or a parade in support of reinstating the Pledge in Schools, it is an equal and comparable playing field.

There is nothing stopping anyone in our society from sending their kids to a private school, which better reflects their religious values. Obviously this is a costly alternative, but our society should not be in the business of subsidizing religious education.
[/quote]

I would not deny them that right.  However, children are prevented from praying in groups at school.  Yet even now there are high schools with gay clubs that pass out flyers about gay marriage, pushing their beliefs on people who don’t support it.  If a Christian or Jewish or even Muslim student were to do that with their religious pamphlets, it would be stopped in a hearbeat.

There is a double standard.  You are just too stubborn to admit it.

Tolerance only goes one way in this country.

Jesus teaches us to hate the sin, but love the sinner.

Jesus teaches us to hate the sin, but love the sinner.

Hulk - Exactly.  I don’t hate gay people.  I said they creep me out and I don’t want my kids hanging around people with that lifestyle.  I didn’t say that they weren’t allowed to live the life they want to, I just don’t want to have to be subjected to it all the time. 

[quote=Spaceman Spiff]

Fair enough.  We’ll keep it to politics, beer, and football.  Well, I can at least have an intelligent conversation about one of those things. 

Spiff, what is a “gay lifestyle”?

[quote=mlgone][quote=anonymous]Spiff, what is a “gay lifestyle”?

[quote=mlgone][quote=anonymous]Spiff, what is a “gay lifestyle”?

Spiff, you seem to have trouble answering any direct questions on this issue.  Is there a reason for that?

He can meet other straight guys at the gym as well.

[quote=anonymous]Spiff, what is a “gay lifestyle”?