Repayment
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[quote=Dirk Diggler][quote=ShortNakedPuts] [quote=joedabrkr]
Are you kidding? THey pay to get you licensed and train you....you don't generate enough income to hold your desk, and now you're looking for severance?
There may be some correlation between that attitude and your current status of one foot on a bannana peel and one foot in the grave.
I suggest you look into a career in civil service. You'll fit right in.
[/quote]
Why the resentment towards me just because I decided I don't want to be a Financial Hassler? Nothing against what you guys do, but for me its not for me. I didn't bust my hump throughout college to become a glorified telemarketer. My impression of telemarketers has always been that they are the scum of the earth, and I cannot feel good about myself at the end of a long day of harassing people over the phone. If you can, fine.
Only reason I was thinking about severance is because I've heard that people have gotten it before...pretty much every company on the planet offers something because they realize people need to feed their families.
Oh and Joe - if the whole broker thing doesn't work out, I'm sure you can get a job with MCI trying to get people to switch their long distance service, or if you're lucky you could become a door to door steak knife salesman! Because that's all this job qualifies you for!
[/quote]
I've got a Master's Degree in Accounting and my first year in the business, I made $80,000 as a "telemarketer." My second year, I made about $150,000 as a "telemarketer." I don't know about YOUR little college degreee, but mine couldn't even sniff anything close to that in two years.
Obviously, you're not entrepreneurally spirited enough to hack it. Don't feel bad. People who own businesses, like Joe and I, need people who can't achieve a higher level than "worker" to do our busywork.
[/quote]
Yah but with a cr@ppy attitude like his I'd never offer him a job even as a worker bee. Besides, it's probably beneath him. Mostly likely he wants to START as CEO. ;-)
[quote=maybeeeeeeee]
If the only method of prospecting you have is
cold calling, you would have had an extremely good chance of failing at
this business and hating your job. But, that is your choice or
your company’s choice.
I think the industry is moving away from hiring the 22 year olds fresh out of college. More success seems to come from 40 - 50 year olds with established community relationships.
too bad for you.
[/quote]That's exactly right - established community relationships are basically a requirement to succeed in the industry today. And its something I do not have, due to my age. Of the 30 trainees in my office, 3 are "on-goal"...aka not going to be fired. Guess what - all 3 of them are a part of a pre-existing unique circle of wealth in the community. The rest of us are left hassling strangers all day until our ultimate demise.
The payout in this industry today isn't even worth it anyway - considering the probability of success. The average starting salary for a new MBA is now $90,000 with a $20,000 signing bonus (recent USA today article). I can go get my MBA and in two years be starting at 90k.
If I were to stay at the wirehouse and bring in their desired 15 mill after two years, at 2% annual fee to the client (no one in their right mind would pay full 3%) that's 15,000,000 * .02 = 300,000 in revenue. About 70% of that gets paid to the firm in production so we're down to $210,000. At 40% annuitized payout the broker gets $84,000. And that's assuming you get everyone to pay 2% which isn't likely.
Sure, from there the income for the broker would probably escalate faster than the income of the MBA, but considering the 10% likelihood of success for the broker...it doesn't seem worthwhile.
"The payout in this industry today isn't even worth it anyway - considering the probability of success. The average starting salary for a new MBA is now $90,000 with a $20,000 signing bonus (recent USA today article). I can go get my MBA and in two years be starting at 90k."
I've found the industry to be worthwhile.
Of course, I'm well above average. If you choose to be average, that's what you'll be.
Good luck in whatever you decide.
[quote=ShortNakedPuts] [quote=maybeeeeeeee]
If the only method of prospecting you have is cold calling, you would have had an extremely good chance of failing at this business and hating your job. But, that is your choice or your company's choice.
I think the industry is moving away from hiring the 22 year olds fresh out of college. More success seems to come from 40 - 50 year olds with established community relationships.
too bad for you.
[/quote]
That's exactly right - established community relationships are basically a requirement to succeed in the industry today. And its something I do not have, due to my age. Of the 30 trainees in my office, 3 are "on-goal"...aka not going to be fired. Guess what - all 3 of them are a part of a pre-existing unique circle of wealth in the community. The rest of us are left hassling strangers all day until our ultimate demise.
The payout in this industry today isn't even worth it anyway - considering the probability of success. The average starting salary for a new MBA is now $90,000 with a $20,000 signing bonus (recent USA today article). I can go get my MBA and in two years be starting at 90k.
If I were to stay at the wirehouse and bring in their desired 15 mill after two years, at 2% annual fee to the client (no one in their right mind would pay full 3%) that's 15,000,000 * .02 = 300,000 in revenue. About 70% of that gets paid to the firm in production so we're down to $210,000. At 40% annuitized payout the broker gets $84,000. And that's assuming you get everyone to pay 2% which isn't likely.
Sure, from there the income for the broker would probably escalate faster than the income of the MBA, but considering the 10% likelihood of success for the broker...it doesn't seem worthwhile.
[/quote]
You left out a very important variable in your analysis. If you get a job paying $90,000, you're going to have to work. You've already proven that you can't handle that.
What did your relatives, friends, friend's parents, parent's friends, professors, people you do business with, and everyone else who would recognize your name say when you asked them for business and referrals? Did you even TRY?
SNP,
You are right to want to get out of the industry...it isn't for everybody!! It's frustrating, very difficult at times, and, for me anyway, the worst part (and the best part ironically) is that it is RETAIL...
Retail, for the most part, can be terrible. Dealing with the few illogical, uninformed, uneducated, and/or annoying folks you come across can make an otherwise pleasant day seem crappy.
So get out now, use your knowledge to invest your own money in the future, and don't look back. You are not suited for this industry, based on what you've said, from a background or disposition stance.
One word of advice...don't try and milk the firm out of some kind of "severance package." You admittidly have cost them money...so just cut ties and walk.
[quote=BankFC]
SNP,
You are right to want to get out of the industry...it isn't for everybody!! It's frustrating, very difficult at times, and, for me anyway, the worst part (and the best part ironically) is that it is RETAIL...
Retail, for the most part, can be terrible. Dealing with the few illogical, uninformed, uneducated, and/or annoying folks you come across can make an otherwise pleasant day seem crappy.
So get out now, use your knowledge to invest your own money in the future, and don't look back. You are not suited for this industry, based on what you've said, from a background or disposition stance.
One word of advice...don't try and milk the firm out of some kind of "severance package." You admittidly have cost them money...so just cut ties and walk.
[/quote]
Better yet...pay them back the money that you've stolen from them, taking a salary, knowing that you are leaving anyway.
[quote=Dirk Diggler]
You left out a very important variable in your
analysis. If you get a job paying $90,000, you’re going to have to
work. You’ve already proven that you can’t handle that.
What did your relatives, friends, friend's parents, parent's friends, professors, people you do business with, and everyone else who would recognize your name say when you asked them for business and referrals? Did you even TRY?
[/quote]Oh, good idea! I can't believe I never thought of that! Let's see...my parents have no money outside of their 401k's, neither do their friends; I have no relatives other than a grandmother who's broke; my professors have PhD's in finance and would never pay an arm and a leg for something they can do themselves; everyone else I know is in their twenties and obviously has no money..
Everyone says they will refer people but my phone has yet to take an incoming call...
What are you talking about that I've proven I can't handle working? I get p*ssed on over the phone about 300 times a day. So far it has netted me a whopping 200k in assets over four months.
[quote=ShortNakedPuts] [quote=maybeeeeeeee]
If the only method of prospecting you have is cold calling, you would have had an extremely good chance of failing at this business and hating your job. But, that is your choice or your company's choice.
I think the industry is moving away from hiring the 22 year olds fresh out of college. More success seems to come from 40 - 50 year olds with established community relationships.
too bad for you.
[/quote]
That's exactly right - established community relationships are basically a requirement to succeed in the industry today. And its something I do not have, due to my age. Of the 30 trainees in my office, 3 are "on-goal"...aka not going to be fired. Guess what - all 3 of them are a part of a pre-existing unique circle of wealth in the community. The rest of us are left hassling strangers all day until our ultimate demise.
The payout in this industry today isn't even worth it anyway - considering the probability of success. The average starting salary for a new MBA is now $90,000 with a $20,000 signing bonus (recent USA today article). I can go get my MBA and in two years be starting at 90k.
If I were to stay at the wirehouse and bring in their desired 15 mill after two years, at 2% annual fee to the client (no one in their right mind would pay full 3%) that's 15,000,000 * .02 = 300,000 in revenue. About 70% of that gets paid to the firm in production so we're down to $210,000. At 40% annuitized payout the broker gets $84,000. And that's assuming you get everyone to pay 2% which isn't likely.
Sure, from there the income for the broker would probably escalate faster than the income of the MBA, but considering the 10% likelihood of success for the broker...it doesn't seem worthwhile.
[/quote]
So stop whining and go get your d@mn MBA and see if the grass is really that green on the other side of the fence! Not trying to be a jerk just suggesting you look at the facts.
I will concede that it is tough to make it as a young fella. Too, the wirehouse training programs only do so much to teach you how to sell and build a business. I know from first hand experience, as I started in a Manhattan branch of a major wire when I was 25.
Then again, I worked my arse off when a lot of the other guys and gals were going out to lunch together, and stayed late to make phone calls while they were often heading out for happy hour. I did have the benefit of starting out working for a couple of experienced guys and learned a lot from them. After about 2 years, though, I decided I wanted to build my own business.
Frankly, I frequently flirted with failure versus the goals my firm set for me. But, I never ever gave up. Failure simply was not an option. Any time I started to consider leaving the business I reminded myself of all the things I liked about it, about the opportunities that lay in front of me, and then pushed on forward.
I'm independent now and, for me, can't believe how much better it is than working in a wirehouse mill. But that's for me, and it has it's own unique pressures and negative points too.
Point being, depending upon how long you've carried these thoughts around in your head, you've been predisposed to fail. Either decide you're going to give it your best effort or type up your resignation letter and move on and get started on your GMAT's. Stop bothering us and wasting your time with these silly questions about severance packages. Those are reserved for union laborers and salary drones.
FWIW that AVERAGE 90k starting salary for MBA's means that a goodly number of those folks are making considerably less, too. Simple math.
Whatever you do, I wish you luck. Not trying to be some kind of jerk, these are just hard realities of life and the business world.
First three years are the toughest, that is what my managers tell me as a rookie just wrapping up my first year or so. I like my job, I don't like cold calling, but you do it along with networking, seminars, volunteering, ect. One piece of advice that I have gotten is that sometimes you have to spend money to make money. You have to think long-term in the beginning. Yeah, You can make 100K in your first year. Good luck though. Too many people are coming out of college with the idea they will get power jobs paying a big chunk of dough. I hate that idea. I am 22, and love the idea of being 40 and having a great practice that I have built on my hard work and integrity. I know I will do fine, just have to keep at it. The relationships, the pride, the respect, ect. Those are what I want when I am a seasoned advisor, Money will just come along with it.
My two cents....
"Frankly, I frequently flirted with failure versus the goals my firm set for me. But, I never ever gave up. Failure simply was not an option. Any time I started to consider leaving the business I reminded myself of all the things I liked about it, about the opportunities that lay in front of me, and then pushed on forward"
Some people got it, 90% dont.......
[quote=ShortNakedPuts] [quote=Dirk Diggler]
You left out a very important variable in your analysis. If you get a job paying $90,000, you're going to have to work. You've already proven that you can't handle that.
What did your relatives, friends, friend's parents, parent's friends, professors, people you do business with, and everyone else who would recognize your name say when you asked them for business and referrals? Did you even TRY?
[/quote]
Oh, good idea! I can't believe I never thought of that! Let's see...my parents have no money outside of their 401k's, neither do their friends; I have no relatives other than a grandmother who's broke; my professors have PhD's in finance and would never pay an arm and a leg for something they can do themselves; everyone else I know is in their twenties and obviously has no money..
Everyone says they will refer people but my phone has yet to take an incoming call...
What are you talking about that I've proven I can't handle working? I get p*ssed on over the phone about 300 times a day. So far it has netted me a whopping 200k in assets over four months.
[/quote]
Then quit and move on!
Or maybe you could benefit by getting to know other people?
"Why the resentment towards me just because I decided I don't want to be a Financial Hassler? Nothing against what you guys do, but for me its not for me. I didn't bust my hump throughout college to become a glorified telemarketer. My impression of telemarketers has always been that they are the scum of the earth, and I cannot feel good about myself at the end of a long day of harassing people over the phone. If you can, fine.
Only reason I was thinking about severance is because I've heard that people have gotten it before...pretty much every company on the planet offers something because they realize people need to feed their families.
Oh and Joe - if the whole broker thing doesn't work out, I'm sure you can get a job with MCI trying to get people to switch their long distance service, or if you're lucky you could become a door to door steak knife salesman! Because that's all this job qualifies you for!"
This is the type of moron that keeps me out of the biz. How in gods name did this kid get an offer? WOW! <?:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" />
Sonny those are some good ideas. I think I will have a little fun with on the way out. No reason not to…
Shmer33 - you’re not in the industry? Then what exactly are you doing here?
Want to know how I got an offer with one of the biggest firms on Wall
Street? I told them exactly what they wanted to hear. Its
as simple as that. I knew every type of question they would ask
and I knew the type of answer they wanted to hear. I can
sell anything to anybody - I just NEED SOMEONE TO SELL TO.
This is probably the only sales job on the planet where you aren’t
provided with ANY potential customers. Can you imagine a car
salesman cold calling…“Hi this is Bill with Honda Motor. I am
simply placing a call to see if I might have caught you at a time where
you would be interested in hearing about our new 2006 Accord.”
That’s basically what we’re doing except our Accord costs a minimum of
$100,000…
[quote=ShortNakedPuts]Sonny those are some good ideas. I think I will have a little fun with on the way out. No reason not to...
Perhaps if you put a genuine effort into it instead of 'having a little fun on the way out', you might be surprised at the results....
Shmer33 - you're not in the industry? Then what exactly are you doing here?
Schmer apparently had a problem with his test results, but now found out he's passed the series 7 and is trying to find a seat to start building his business. Considering his attitude is substantially better than yours, not to mention his willlingness to work hard and be persistent, he will probably be far more successful than you. So, why don't you resign now so someone deserving-like Shmer-can have your seat?
Want to know how I got an offer with one of the biggest firms on Wall Street? I told them exactly what they wanted to hear.
Whether it was true or not?
Its as simple as that. I knew every type of question they would ask and I knew the type of answer they wanted to hear. I can sell anything to anybody - I just NEED SOMEONE TO SELL TO. This is probably the only sales job on the planet where you aren't provided with ANY potential customers. Can you imagine a car salesman cold calling..."Hi this is Bill with Honda Motor. I am simply placing a call to see if I might have caught you at a time where you would be interested in hearing about our new 2006 Accord." That's basically what we're doing except our Accord costs a minimum of $100,000...
So if they have it so good, and if you're so good at giving people the answers they want to hear, why don't you go sell Hondas you loser?
Actually I know some very successful car salesmen and they at least make 'warm calls' to their old customers on a regular basis.
OK, so the wirehouse doesn't bring you leads all dressed up like a Thanksgiving turkey. However, unlike the car salesman, once you establish a relationship with a client that client will generate revenue for you throughout the year. Most folks only buy a new car every few years or more, on the other hand. Too, your market can consist of anyone with money to invest or a life to insure. A car salesman can only sell what he has in inventory to people who come into the showroom.
Part of being a good salesman(which is only a small part of this business) is going out and drumming up new business because there's hardly a company out there that generates enough new leads for their top performing sales rep.
But you don't want to hear that because it would burst your little bubble of whining and self-pity.
If you're really such a good salesman, why are you on here posting questions about severance packages? How long have you worked there anyway? Six months?
[/quote]
Shmer,
Did someone lie to you and tell you this was going to be an easy biz?
If not, then you knew what you were getting into...
If so, then it seems like poetic justice. You told them what they wanted to hear, and they told you what you wanted to hear.
In all of these posts there is truth in almost everyone of them. How you take the info and apply it is up to you. You could take some of good ideas and turn your biz into something worth having (if you are willing to work for it). Or, you can take the easy way, give up, and always wonder..."what if".
P.S. By the way, good luck with the $90k/yr job coming straight out of your MBA program. Most employers still want job experience (as near as I can see) before they start paying someone that kind of money.
Sorry, that comment was directed to SNP
[quote=exEJIR]
Shmer,
Did someone lie to you and tell you this was going to be an easy biz?
If not, then you knew what you were getting into...
If so, then it seems like poetic justice. You told them what they wanted to hear, and they told you what you wanted to hear.
In all of these posts there is truth in almost everyone of them. How you take the info and apply it is up to you. You could take some of good ideas and turn your biz into something worth having (if you are willing to work for it). Or, you can take the easy way, give up, and always wonder..."what if".
P.S. By the way, good luck with the $90k/yr job coming straight out of your MBA program. Most employers still want job experience (as near as I can see) before they start paying someone that kind of money.
[/quote][quote=ShortNakedPuts] [quote=Dirk Diggler]
You left out a very important variable in your analysis. If you get a job paying $90,000, you're going to have to work. You've already proven that you can't handle that.
What did your relatives, friends, friend's parents, parent's friends, professors, people you do business with, and everyone else who would recognize your name say when you asked them for business and referrals? Did you even TRY?
[/quote]
Oh, good idea! I can't believe I never thought of that! Let's see...my parents have no money outside of their 401k's, neither do their friends; I have no relatives other than a grandmother who's broke; my professors have PhD's in finance and would never pay an arm and a leg for something they can do themselves; everyone else I know is in their twenties and obviously has no money..
Everyone says they will refer people but my phone has yet to take an incoming call...
What are you talking about that I've proven I can't handle working? I get p*ssed on over the phone about 300 times a day. So far it has netted me a whopping 200k in assets over four months.
[/quote]
You're disqualifying everybody before you even ask them!!! Do your friends have parents? Can your parents take partial or full in-service withdrawals from their 401K's? Can anyone else you know that has a job? When you ask for referrals, do you tell them what's in it for them? People don't do anything unless there is a payoff to them. You have to illustrate that.
If the phone isn't working for you, get off your butt and go meet some business owners. Don't be too smart for this business. Quit thinking so much!
SNP:
<?:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" />
I am implying the fact that most wire houses, with the exception of MS, will not hire new grades because they are not mature enough to handle the position or the industry. Most of us have to come to the realization that a B.S. and in most cases an MBA, DEPENDING UPON THE SCHOOL, does not qualify you for much.
What am I doing here?
When I was 23, I am guessing you are 2 or 3 years younger than me; I blew a huge opportunity with SB. I had an offer to start as an assistant to the branches top producer- one of the sweet and extremely rare deals where a senior producer takes a rookie under his wing. Like a dumb a$$ I turned it down to work in what turned out to be a chop shop because I was going to build my own book.
Young and stupid nothing more.
Lesson learned the hard way. So for the last two years I have been trying to get licensed the hard way.
I, much like yourself, had everything handed to me all of my life.
If you want out of the biz, that is ok. I wish you the best. But the fact of the matter is unless you have 2 years of documented B2B successful sales experience you are starting at the bottom. Today, a J.D. is the only degree that will get you anywhere in the sales world.
No one is going to hand you a high paying sales position. The only exception is if daddy is the CEO. If having the ability to tell HR what they want to hear qualified you for a high level sales position, I would be soliciting MRI machines for Johnson and Johnson.
Try to get out with minimal expense and start some where fresh. Good luck!!
Shmer33