Just so you know spaceman, whether the fee is eligible or not to be considered an investment expense to the IRS that is not even material when considered to being able to control your investments and control your tax situation.  Mutual funds do not allow you to do this and I know the turnover rate on American Funds is lower than  other firms but the fact is you have no control.  On the ETF side if you are talking about an actively traded ETF portfolio at Jones and that being better for the client or even cheaper for the client, you must not have seen what we charge to trade those (hint: it is just like a stock).  With the amount of research we have available to us that is no different than what an ordinary person could not figure out on their own (hint: very little to none), you can not possibly justify the cost of even one ETF trade at Jones so an actively traded portfolio has no revelavance.  I work for Jones and this is what I don’t like about it.  I feel like I work with a bunch of uneducated individuals who lack the ability to reason.  And then you wonder why we have to train someone for a year on the ICA guide.  Spaceman do yourself a favor and continue to focus on just what Jones does, because if you open up to the rest of the world your narrow mind might blow up. 

Blogme, if you don’t like working with idiots, why did you join Jones?  Most of your peers are former used car salesmen, waiters, and bus drivers.  As far as your clients, who else would give money to a faggot door to door salesman, other than an idiot?  You’re in the wrong spot if you don’t like idiots.

Spiff,

You never told me if you were a top account opener for the month?? An NAV advisory fund account can and does outperform your buy and forget A share portfolio with less risk in many instances net of fees.  You have no idea what is available and your R share mutual fund program underway will be fair at best. Whether you stay or go doesn't matter, however I would be prepared to have a better answer then we have the lowest ongoing expenses of any proposal you'll see Mr. Client. In a competitive situation against Jones I can tell the client what was proposed before they tell me. That is not going to get it done, buy and forget is no longer an option in todays market place.     

blogme - you have difficulty with reading comprehension don't you?  I clearly said that a portfolio with few moving parts, therefore not actively traded, will be cheaper for the client.  I'm talking about setting up an ETF portfolio once with a broad diversification mix and letting it do it's thing.  Since that theory of portfolio construction would mean you believe in an efficient market hypothesis, you shouldn't be actively trading it.  If you were it would make me question just how good the original portfolio was to begin with.  How many trades are you going to make in a year.  12?  15?  I don't know about your office, but I just don't work with a ton of non-qualified money that's not in annuities.   

News flash for you.  There's this thing called the internet that allows everyone who has the desire to find out everything that we know about anything.  You think those fact sheets you print out on your mutual funds are available only to licensed individuals.  Ever heard of Yahoo or Google?  There's enough info out there to choke a horse.

I usually don't argue with Jones people about the way Jones runs things.  Neither do I tell them what I think they should do with their career.  In this case you evidently have a fundamental difference of opinion with Jones on portfolio management.  I've always felt if I got to that point it would be time to part company.  Sounds like you'd probably be much happier somewhere else.

advisor28 - no, I'm not a top account opener.  Never have been.   Does it matter?

Jones has never been a buy and forget company.  Buy and hold is different.  I believe that a lot of the "active management" in the portfolios I see is more a function of the advisor trying to make it look like they are doing something for their clients by moving from fund A to fund B rather than tactical or strategic moves. 

I've also never told a client they would have the cheapest ongoing expenses out there.  If they want that they can go to Vanguard.  I also don't promise them they'll have the best return on the street.  I tell them they are going to make the returns they need to reach their goals.  If I start playing the my returns are better than yours game, I'm going to get beat.  And you are too. 

I'm willing to lose a client or not get a prospect if they are looking for something that I don't offer.  I tell them what I have to offer, the cost, and the services they can expect.  If it matches, great.  If not, I'm disappointed, but moving on. 

Spiff,

You make valid points however my focus was on the fact that not all mutual fund families do everything well and having the ability to use funds from different families to fill in the gaps gives the client an advantage from a risk/reward standpoint.  At Jones this is not possible due to aggregation rules, when even in C shares there is a compelling argument to the multi manager approach vs. single family A shares.  As for your comment about does it matter to be a top account opener, at Jones it does matter..I'm glad to hear you realize that it can be a hinderence in a mature business. Just healthy banter, best to you in the future... 

28,

I have to agreee with you here. I do use a lot of the standard Jones stuff

(i.e. American Funds). But more and more I am using AMF for my core

(Capital Income Builder, Income Fund, etc.) and global allocations, but

have to go other places for growth, small/mid cap, alternatives (real

estate, gold/commodities, total return bond, etc.).

I find it sort of difficult in our a-share world, but I make do for the most

part. I will use multiple a-shares when I have the funds to do it (i.e. two

100K breaks), or use c-shares paired with a-shares (i.e. a-shares to hit

the 100K break, plus c-shares for the next 50-75K).

The problem I have is that while American Funds is one of the best in the

growth & income space and global investing, they are not very good

beyond that. They are adequate with bond picking. They are not great

with growth, terrible with small/mid cap, and really can’t offer anything

else compelling.



As far as the top account opener comment, after your first few years, I

don’t really see where that matters at Jones. Most veterans will tell you

they are trying NOT to open more accounts.

I think the key to surviving and making clients happy in the A share world is to compromise.  I for the first few years of my biz I used nothing but American Funds.  Now I use a lot of Goldman and Franklin Templeton.  Hartford has some nice offerings too.  I've used some Columbia funds for that small/mid space.  I also believe it goes back to the basic conversation of meeting people's goals.  I don't care if you use A shares, C shares, ETFs, or individual holdings, you have to be able to make people the return they need to meet their goals.  Do that for them and they'll be happy. 

I don't really get concerned about the number of accounts I open.  I focus more on the AUM I bring in.  I take 1 $1 million account vs 10 $4000 IRAs. 

blogme - you have difficulty with reading comprehension don't you?  I clearly said that a portfolio with few moving parts, therefore not actively traded, will be cheaper for the client.  I'm talking about setting up an ETF portfolio once with a broad diversification mix and letting it do it's thing.  Since that theory of portfolio construction would mean you believe in an efficient market hypothesis, you shouldn't be actively trading it.  If you were it would make me question just how good the original portfolio was to begin with.  How many trades are you going to make in a year.  12?  15?  I don't know about your office, but I just don't work with a ton of non-qualified money that's not in annuities.   

News flash for you.  There's this thing called the internet that allows everyone who has the desire to find out everything that we know about anything.  You think those fact sheets you print out on your mutual funds are available only to licensed individuals.  Ever heard of Yahoo or Google?  There's enough info out there to choke a horse.

I usually don't argue with Jones people about the way Jones runs things.  Neither do I tell them what I think they should do with their career.  In this case you evidently have a fundamental difference of opinion with Jones on portfolio management.  I've always felt if I got to that point it would be time to part company.  Sounds like you'd probably be much happier somewhere else.

Spaceman, I guess I will have to agree with some of the other guys I have seen respond to some of your post in the past and say "You might want to go back and read the previous post before posting and making yourself look like an idiot."  First of all in case you forgot Edward Jones has NO actual theory on portfolio construction.  It has a philosphy called buy and hold.  Let's buy what our research department believes to be high quality investments and hold them for as long as we can keep the clients in them.  There are some good things here, but it is no where close to modern portfolio theory.  If you don't think so, try your little yahoo or google trick you where trying to tell me about and see what you find out.  Which brings me to my next point and I am glad you agreed with me.  There is so much information on the internet on yahoo, msn money, etc.  that is FREE!!!!  More than just free it is user friendly and an easy read for anyone, so let me state my point again about your little ETF portfolio.  With all of this information out there, which you agreed with me, is no different than what our research department is putting together how can you possibly to yourself justify one ETF trade.  The bare minimum the client would pay is $50 and they can do it on the internet with the same info for $7.  If there is value being added then I believe there is reason for a higher cost, NO value is added here.  Your not "Doing what is Right for the customer" only what drives up your gross and ulitmately puts more money in your pocket.  I am sorry if it is just me but my morals and beliefs, don't believe taking advantage of people is in their best interest!

What is it exactly that you do for a living?  I'm getting confused because you are arguing with me about clients paying for our advice.  I'll disagree with you that the info on the internet is "an easy read for anyone".  We think it's an easy read because we read it all day long.  Talk to your average client and see if they even know that Yahoo has a finance page.  Ask them if they understand what standard deviation is.  Or the difference between their CD and a bond.  The ETF sites will tell them what makes up the ETF, what index it tracks, and some other info, but it absolutely doesn't tell them how much to buy, when to buy/sell, or how it fits into their portfolio. 

Sorry, I can't help going back to the what is it that you do for a living question.  You get paid to tell people what to buy, how to buy it, and when to let it go.  You get paid to take information that they can get anywhere and help them make sense of it.  Under your current logic system, anything that can be found on the internet should be free to buy or at least really inexpensive.  I disagree. 

You are mostly correct that Jones doesn't have a theory on portfolio construction.  They do, it's just really basic.  You may have seen it.  We call it the diversification bar chart.  In case you hadn't noticed there is some theory on portfolio construction there.  You are correct that they don't say you should own 2.5% of 5 different satellite investments in addition to your core.  That's for you to decide.  One of the beauties of Jones I guess.  Nobody is going to shove their version of portfolio management down your throat. 

I don't know where you get off telling me that I'm not doing what is right for my clients because I may choose to suggest they buy an ETF that they can buy at Scottrade for $7.  If it's MY idea going into the portfolio that I built for them based on the goals they told me they wanted to reach, I don't have any moral debates about charging them the commission.  That's what they pay me for.  

You seem to be having some internal moral/ethics battle that is beyond me.  Honestly, I don't get it.  And, unless you are a buddy of mine and I just don't know it, I don't care.  But, I do believe that if you were my buddy having those thoughts it might be time to leave Jones.  I know of a job coming up on a team at Morgan Stanley if you're interested.  I'll give your name to them.

I don't want to get in the middle of this, and I don't necessary agree with Spiff on everything, or probably even a majority of things.  However, he hit the nail on the head here.

[quote=Spaceman Spiff]

You get paid to tell people what to buy, how to buy it, and when to let it go.  You get paid to take information that they can get anywhere and help them make sense of it.  Under your current logic system, anything that can be found on the internet should be free to buy or at least really inexpensive.  I disagree. 

I don't know where you get off telling me that I'm not doing what is right for my clients because I may choose to suggest they buy an ETF that they can buy at Scottrade for $7.  If it's MY idea going into the portfolio that I built for them based on the goals they told me they wanted to reach, I don't have any moral debates about charging them the commission.  That's what they pay me for.  

[/quote]

This was actually one of my reasons for leaving EDJ.  I think my advice is worth 1% a year.  If you don't, that's fine, but that doesn't mean I'm going to give it to you for 1.75% upfront and a .25% trail for the next 20 years.  The guy down the street will have to help you.

We get paid for our advice, and while we are well compensated, look at what frequently happens when we are not involved.  If someone is not willing to pay me 1% to help them not make bad choices that will detrimentally affect their ability to retire in the style they desire, then they can find someone else to help. 

When I am seeking advice on something very important, like my health, or other things that will have a negative effect on my standard of living if a bad choice is made, I am not price shopping for advice, I pay what I need to so I can get the best advice possible. 

If that's not what you want, then I will politely ask you to leave my office and go google modern portfolio theory.  My advice is valuable, and it is not free. 

JONES for 4 yrs, indy now for 3.
1. Jim Wettle himself guaranteed me that jones would never have anything that even resembled a fee based platform because such platforms were not good for investors; they are now developing such a platform.
2. Jim also swore they would never have any time of buy-out program to IR’s because the partners already paid the IR’s every penny they could; now they do offer buyout plans and the sale of an IR’s book.
3. Jones pushed Federated and Putnam funds down our throat and would not pay full commissions to IR’s selling Franklin temp or Rydex etc. … they did not report to us IR’s that the Putnam/Hartford/VK/American funds paid kickbacks to us.  UNTIL AFTER WE SETTLED OUT OF COURT that we took kickbacks.

Jones is a swell place to learn how to prospect, teaches nothing about actually managing assets.  They are a sales company not a money management firm.  I now manage money, I am no longer a salesman.  Their are a lot of good people at Jones too scared to go it alone. 

24,

You mentioned in your post that you would just make due with what Jones will allow, I think this is an issue.  Keep in mind while you are giving good advice with a core of American/Franklin A shares along side some C to fill the gaps why is your pay dinged at 35% instead of 40% like A shares.  It used to be 30% until recently.  I'm serious when I ask the following question: Are either you or Spiff aware of a transfer advisor coming to Jones that had gross commissions the previous trailing 12 over $300k.  I was there over 5 years and never met one...your honesty is appreciated. 

Hello everyone,



I am 25 years old and I am currently applying at Edward Jones as a Financial Advisor. I was wondering if someone could tell me a general idea of what to expect at my face to face interview? I really want to work for Edward Jones. I just graduated college about two years ago and I am ready to build a career. I know I might not stay with Jones all my life but its a start and I just want to Ace this interview and be hired. Can someone help me out my interview is next week?



thank you so much!

28

No.  I don't personally know any transfer brokers that came over here with that kind of gross.  That doesn't mean they don't exist.  If you'd like I can give you the name of the lady who facilitates the program that orients those folks to Jones.  I'll bet she can give you a few names. 

Jones drops the payout on C shares so that they aren't used in place of A shares.  C shares were never designed to be used in lieu of a fee based account.   

Jackbauer

I don't mean to call you out, but I have a hard time believing that you got either of those promises from Weddle himself.  If you did, it was at a time when he really didn't have the ability to say things like that and be able to back them up.  Now, I will say I've heard Bachman say things like that.  But, he's not the captain of the ship anymore.  I don't believe a response to an anonymous Suggbox wire counts by the way.  

estilo,

Because I haven’t done a Secrets Revealed Topic in awhile I thought you might want to hear from the horse’s mouth the Secrets (Brutal Facts) that Edward Jones is currently facing.