Sooth,

Listen to yourself "we couldn't wait to unleash the power and technology of the U.S. Army ....."  Buddy I think you have a problem you seem to enjoy the thought of war way too much.  So you served, my family is full of serviceman and one is Mosul right now.  They served and they shut up about it. If you join just do your job. You serve and you want some kind of pat on the back.  Ranting for five paragraphs makes you sound like a war monger not someone who wants to deliver peace and democracy.

Just chill my friend, geez, with your attitude have you considere a career as a prison guard or in the post office.  Your FA must be shaking in her boots when you're upset.

[quote=VotedforKerry]

Sooth,

Listen to yourself "we couldn't wait to unleash the power and technology of the U.S. Army ....."  Buddy I think you have a problem you seem to enjoy the thought of war way too much.  So you served, my family is full of serviceman and one is Mosul right now.  They served and they shut up about it. If you join just do your job. You serve and you want some kind of pat on the back.  Ranting for five paragraphs makes you sound like a war monger not someone who wants to deliver peace and democracy.

Just chill my friend, geez, with your attitude have you considere a career as a prison guard or in the post office.  Your FA must be shaking in her boots when you're upset.

You're an idiot.  That doesn't even dignify a response.  Go ahead and feel free to refute any of the logical case I laid out. 

[quote]

You're an idiot.  That doesn't even dignify a response.  Go ahead and feel free to refute any of the logical case I laid out.  [/quote]

Which was?

What is funny about the first Iraq war - Kuwait flooded the world with cheap oil.  Didn' Saddam ask the UN to do something.  In fact I am quite sure he even threatened war with Kuwait and nothing so Saddam loaded up his army and invaded.

Then daddy Bush got the world all in a hissy fit and invaded.  Atleast daddy Bush waited until he had an excuse.

Also quick history lesson - wasn't World War 2 started because of the victors of World War 1?

History is funny especially for those who actually know it.

[quote=Juiced6]

Iraq and Afghanistan war - no ties to any attacks on US soil.

[/quote]

Wow, I am still shaking my head!!! Afghanistan??? No ties to attacks on U.S. soil???

Where the hell do you think the Taliban were from???  Please stop making up facts as you go, you are embarassing yourself!!!!

"Also quick history lesson - wasn't World War 2 started because of the victors of World War 1?

History is funny especially for those who actually know it."

History isn't funny...ignorant people who claim to know history are funny.  WW II was started because of the victors of WW I?  Try this: Google the words "Pearl Harbor".

Let me see if I have some of this right.  Iraq had every reason and justification necessary to invade and literally loot Kuwait because they were engaging in unfair trade practices? 

Voted for Kerry implies that his family member's service is higher and better than mine because he went to Mosul and then shut up about it.  I'm not bragging or asking for a "pat on the back", I'm just expressing how it feels from the standpoint of someone who served in Gulf War I.  Why is it that so many in the press can't remember what happened a decade ago?  Did they sleep through it.  Oh, and I'm also a war monger, and a peace hater (name calling).  I'm all for peace on fair and reasonable terms.  Not, peace at all costs.  As far as unleashing the power of US forces, do you have any idea how frustrating it is to be the guy whos ass is on the line, and Judy Woodruff from CNN is putting on "military expert" talking head after talking head who is predicting that you are about to get carved up like a fat ham on a Christmas buffet by that battle hardened Republican Guard.  These idiots had no idea of the true firepower of our arsenal, and were openly disrespectful of the most professional, well-equipped, and well-trained army in our country's history. 

Juiced6 wants to know what some of the "facts" were.  Did Peter Arnett wear a gas mask back in 1991?  Did Iraq invade Kuwait?  Was the only condition of averting war to simply leave?  Start with those 3.

For the most part, Germany started WWI.  They lost.  France and Britain dictated monetary reparations as punishment against the wishes of the United States.  Those reparations literally bankrupted Germany causing widespread abject poverty and human misery, and set the stage for a country being highjacked by a mad dictator.  Then, Germany (along with their Axis partners) started WWII.  The victors divided their country into four parts which became two parts.  Remember East and West Germany?  I know it preceded the first Gulf War.  Clearly an outcome that exemplified the spoils of war.

I'm with BlahBlahBlah on the whole Afghanistan thing.  You know, Ann Coulter always says that liberals don't know how to argue.  You lay out facts and logic, they bring back name-calling and diversion of the argument.  Come on, guys and gals.  Bring back some real argument.  Don't make your most hated and despised conservative icon right again.

Who was from afghanistan?  I thought they were Saudis?

In 91 yes Saddam did have SCUDs I did not deny that but I obviously did so sorry.  Hell he may even had them all through the Clinton years I even said that However, over 3 years ago two of Bush's top aids said he did not have them and they had proof then!  So how did this poor country go about getting them after?  That is all I want to know.

Answer to my history question - Germany had to pay reperations - Japan and Italy also helped the Allies in WW1 and they were screwed over and got little if anything - this planted the seeds for them to align with Hitler!

Im not making up facts - I just read the back pages of the newspapers with the little font - you know where the article was about Iraq had no weapons and the search was being called off.

What is funny now is that more Americans are starting to think like me now - have you seen a latest approval rating of Bush - lowest he has ever had and it is all because of this war.

and Ann Coulter is the biggest moron to ever get into media - hell she even wanted to cut off relations to Canada because they did not back this war.  Yeah to quote Ann Coulter - wow talk about embarassing yourself.

[quote]Did Peter Arnett wear a gas mask back in 1991?  Did Iraq invade Kuwait?  Was the only condition of averting war to simply leave?[/quote]

all three are correct - i never challenged that

[quote]Let me see if I have some of this right.  Iraq had every reason and justification necessary to invade and literally loot Kuwait because they were engaging in unfair trade practices?[/quote]

So what was the reason Iraq invaded?  You never really do hear about it.  Or lets spin it this way - Lets say the US has only one export and it is cars.  We can make more cars than anyone however, if another country comes in and undercuts us we will be hurting for money.

Mexico decides to do that.  Now what do we do as country - stand by and go hungry, plead to the world for help, or go in and teach them a lesson.

I think Ann Coulter is kinda hot, but not as hawt as Becky Quick from CNBC. 

Note: Part of this post was copied from a post in one of the previous

incarnations of this site.







After the end of the Cold War, the Dems (and some Reps) forgot about

history and human nature and decided there would be no more major

wars (kinda like Rumsfeld and Bush are doing as of this week by claiming

there is no need foor heavy divsions in the Army). See, they politizied the

PEACE DIVIDEND and the media failed to let the public know what it really

meant.(Cutting the size of the Army, Navy, Air Force and Marines in HALF

from 1980’s levels)



Then Clinton (folowing Mrs. Albrights, bright advice) decide to deploy the

military to more small Peacekeeping, advisory and just plain police

actions than ever before. Meanwhile the American public slept (The

downside of a good economy, nobody cares).



Then 9-11 happened and the American public thought the military of the

’80s, and Desert Storm would respond. (it could’nt, it’s HALF AS BIG)

Our professional figthers are the BEST in the world, but there’s HALF as

many as most people think.



Why my fixation on the size of the military? It was the Clinton

administrations bright idea that the National Guard and Reserves could

do what the Professional Army can (forgetting that these people signed

on to pull through in case of a National Emergency, NOT as PERMANENT

SOLDIERS)



During the 60’s, 70’s and 80’s you could sign up for the National Guard

and or Reserves, get great benefits, honorably serve your country in a

limited capacity (a few weekends a year) and not reasonably expect to go

to WAR.



CAN YOU NAME THIS COUNTRY?



709,000 REGULAR (ACTIVE DUTY) PERSONNEL.293,000 RESERVE TROOPS.



EIGHT STANDING ARMY DIVISIONS.



20 AIR FORCE AND NAVY AIR WINGS WITH 2,000 COMBAT AIRCRAFT.



232 STRATEGIC BOMBERS.



19 STRATEGIC BALLISTIC MISSILE SUBMARINES WITH 3,114

NUCLEAR*************WARHEADS ON 232 MISSILES.



500 ICBMs WITH 1,950 WARHEADS.



FOUR AIRCRAFT CARRIERS AND 121 SURFACE COMBAT SHIPS AND

SUBMARINES PLUS ALL THE SUPPORT BASES, SHIPYARDS, AND LOGISTICAL

ASSETS NEEDED TO SUSTAIN SUCH A NAVAL FORCE.



IS THIS COUNTRY:



RUSSIA? NO



CHINA? NO



GREAT BRITAIN? NO



FRANCE? WRONG AGAIN (What a Laugh!)



MUST BE THE USA? STILL WRONG (Sort of.)



GIVE UP?



THESE ARE THE AMERICAN MILITARY FORCES THAT WERE ELIMINATED

DURING THE ADMINISTRATION OF BILL CLINTON AND AL GORE. AND

THEIR ELIMINATION WAS SUPPORTED 100% BY JOHN KERRY! (THESE HE

DID VOTE ON!)



SLEEP WELL!This is not a new message, but a reminder of why we now

have over-deployment of our National Guard and Reserve Units!







BUT THE AMERICAN PEOPLE DONT KNOW THIS.





Dont get me wrong, Democrats, Republicans and the Media could’ve

brought this up before 9-11. They didn’t. Kerry even voted repeatedly for

less and less resources for the military and Intelligence services.



But now nobody talks about this, everyone conveniently says: LET’S GET

ON WITH IT. Same as during the 20’s, same as during the 90’s.



I really see us loosing in Irak and Afganistan. NOT because of our military,

but because of lack of effective leadership from both parties and lack of

interest and knowledge from a population fat on McDonalds and Oprah



I hate to say this, but without an effective leader, only a nuke going off in

a major city will wake people up in this country.







Thought you’d find this interesting.



At about the time our original 13 states adopted their new constitution, in

the year 1787, Alexander Tyler (a Scottish history professor at The

University of Edinborough) had this to say about “The Fall of The Athenian

Republic” some 2,000 years prior.



“A democracy is always temporary in nature; it simply cannot exist as a

permanent form of government. A democracy will continue to exist up

until the time that voters discover that they can vote themselves generous

gifts from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always

votes for the candidates who promise the most benefits from the public

treasury, with the result that every democracy will finally collapse due to

loose fiscal policy, (which is) always followed by a dictatorship.”



"The average age of the worlds greatest civilizations from the beginning

of history, has been about 200 years. During those

200 years, these nations always progressed through the following

sequence:



From Bondage to spiritual faith;



From spiritual faith to great courage;



From courage to liberty;



From liberty to abundance;



From abundance to complacency;



From complacency to apathy;



From apathy to dependence;



From dependence back into bondage.“



Professor Joseph Olson of Hamline University School of Law, St. Paul,

Minnesota, points out some interesting facts concerning the most recent



Presidential election:



Population of counties won by:



Gore=127 million



Bush=143 million



Square miles of land won by:



Gore=580,000



Bush=2,2427,000



States won by:



Gore=19



Bush=29



Murder rate per 100,000 residents in counties

won by:



Gore=13.2



Bush=2.1



Professor Olson adds:



“In aggregate, the map of the territory Bush won was mostly the land

owned by the tax-paying citizens of this great country.

Gore’s territory encompassed those citizens living in government-owned

tenements and living off government welfare…” Olson believes the U.S. is

now somewhere between the “apathy” and “complacency” phase of

Professor Tyler’s definition of democracy; with some 40 percent of the

nation’s population already having reached the “governmental

dependency” phase.



This country (Dems and Republicans) needs a wake up call, 9-11

apparently was not enough.   

  Visigoth

I hope you build your own roads. use only your own form of transportation. and homeschool your children. After all you would not want to be a hypocrite and become part of that  40 percent of the
nation's population that has entered the "governmental
dependency" phase.

For the most part though I do agree with Visigoths post

Half of the country does not care - compare that to what was it Russia or one of those countries over there earlier this year they had election fraud and the whole country basically came out in protest.

That would not happen in America - like he said a wake up call is needed.

[quote=Soothsayer][quote=VotedforKerry]

Sooth,

Listen to yourself "we couldn't wait to unleash the power and technology of the U.S. Army ....."  Buddy I think you have a problem you seem to enjoy the thought of war way too much.  So you served, my family is full of serviceman and one is Mosul right now.  They served and they shut up about it. If you join just do your job. You serve and you want some kind of pat on the back.  Ranting for five paragraphs makes you sound like a war monger not someone who wants to deliver peace and democracy.

Just chill my friend, geez, with your attitude have you considere a career as a prison guard or in the post office.  Your FA must be shaking in her boots when you're upset.

You're an idiot.  That doesn't even dignify a response.  Go ahead and feel free to refute any of the logical case I laid out. 

Sooth, I must apologize, I just realized that you must be still suffering from Post Traumatic Stress Disorder.  You must still have nightmares of all the latrines your Capt. made you clean during the Gulf War while the real soldiers were chasing the Republican Guard while they were dropping their rifles and running away.  Lighten the f*&* up.  One more word "Prozac."  Have a good one.

I'm curious, VfK.

Why would you think that cleaning latrines (or "heads" in the Navy and Marine Corps) is somehow a dishonorable duty?  (On that subject, those duties are assigned by NCOs, not officers.)  Why is pride in one's service a negative in your eyes?  Why is it perfectly acceptable to vote for the candidate of your choice, yet citizens voting for other candidates are not worthy of the same right, yet seem to be fair game for personal, ad hominem attacks?  Is there no room in your political philosophy for dissent?  Doesn't that seem narrow-minded and smack of totalitarianism to you?

If you want to make a case for your point of view, fine!  I'll listen.  Respectfully, so far your case doesn't hold water.

[quote=Juiced6]

And another thing - when half of the country does
not vote in the first place - does that mean that Bush was elected by
25% of the people?

Now that is a sad sad case right there.

[quote=Juiced6]

WW2 - lets see Germany, Italy, and Japan united and going to war with the world.

[/quote]

You are wrong.  Japan was at war long before they allied with Germany.  See China for details.

[quote=Juiced6]
Japan bombs us as it plans to invade us.

US finally enters war after years of neutrality.

[/quote]
There was no alliance of support between Japan and Germany.  Their only commonality was their desire for power.

Germany NEVER attacked the United States.  Or did anything else against the United States.  In fact, one thing Germany didn't want in the first place was a war on two fronts.  They didn't want Britain entering the war, and they certainly didn't want the US to enter the war.

Further, Japan was a weak enemy from the start.  90% (from what I've read) of our war effort in WWII was focused on the European theater--against an enemy that didn't do a thing to us. 
[quote=Juiced6]

Iraq and Afghanistan war - no ties to any attacks on US soil.
[/quote]
Afghanistan was controlled by the Taliban.  A group that was harboring Bin Laden.

Iraq...didn't you READ those Clinton quotes I provided?  Sorry.  I know how you left-wingers like to revise history for your benefit.  But Saddam was not a nice guy.  Further, everyone believed Saddam had WMDs.  Everyone.

[quote=Juiced6]

US goes to war on what seems to be lies right now.
[/quote]
READ THE CLINTON QUOTES!!!

You (*&^% ^%$$$#!  Sorry.  I hate to resort to name calling but some people are so damn stupid they need a ratchet against the side of the head!!!

[quote=Juiced6]

In one case - we needed to defend this country.  The other is well shaded and truth is now starting to peak through.
[/quote]
READ THE CLINTON QUOTES!  You can read, right?  What does Clinton say?  What does Clinton say that Bush didn't repeat?

[quote=Juiced6]

Makes you rethink Vietnam now too.

College too.

[quote=Juiced6]

[quote]Where are those WMDs, Bill?  Why did
you lie, Bill?  Why did you CON the Bush administration into
believing Iraq had WMDs and was working to obtain nukes???[/quote]

Good question both Colin Powell and Condi Rice both said Iraq did not have WMDs from July 01

[/quote]

LIAR!  Neither of them said that.  Some idiot around here provided video of some quotes OUT OF CONTEXT.  You don't know what they said because only a few seconds of it was provided by your liberal idiots.

[quote=Juiced6]
Then what a year later he had them?
[/quote]

You have no clue (as with everything) about what they said.  BECAUSE YOUR LEFTIST HEROES DID NOT PROVIDE THE ENTIRE QUOTES TO YOU!!!

[quote=Juiced6]

So let me get this straight - Bill said he had them and he didnt - okay he lied.  

[/quote]

What in the heck is wrong with you?  "Duh, I can't argue my way out of this one...so instead of back-tracking and admitting that Bush didn't lie and relied on the best information he had at the time--information he believed to be accurate and true, I'll just say Clinton, a well-known liar, must have lied, too."

Guess what...if we wanted the OIL we could have just gotten rid of the embargo and bought it a LOT CHEAPER THAN IT WOULD COST TO INVADE THE F*CKING COUNTRY IN THE FIRST PLACE!  GET A BRAIN!

[quote=Juiced6]

Then in 01 under Bush - two of his top advisors are on the news saying Iraq did not have WMDs - they are correct. 

[/quote]
They NEVER SAID ANY SUCH THING!  The only thing you've seen is a few seconds of quotes TAKEN OUT OF CONTEXT.

[quote=Juiced6]

Then magically after all this tough terror talk he has them - now Bush lied.
[/quote]
The Democratic party is chock full of the ignorant and stupid...

[quote=Juiced6]

And in the end those weapons never did turn up. 

[/quote]

Since those weapons never turned up, the Kurds must have gassed themselves, right?  I suppose the Kuwaitis invaded themselves, too, huh?

[quote=Juiced6]

See Bill might have lied but he never acted on it because he was going to let inpsectors do their job

[/quote]
No, Clinton never acted on it--wait, he did bomb an aspirin factory...Clinton didn't act on ANYTHING.  All Clinton did was talk bullsh*t because some chumps believe bullsh*t and lies. 

What did Clinton do about the 1993 WTC attack?  Nothing.  Clinton did nothing about everything.

[quote=Juiced6]

- Bush wanted in Iraq whether for oil, revenge whatever.
[/quote]
So clueless...

http://www.cnn.com/2004/US/06/19/clinton.iraq/

"I have repeatedly defended President Bush against the left on Iraq, even though I think he should have waited until the U.N. inspections were over,"

Clinton, who was interviewed Thursday, said he did not believe that Bush went to war in Iraq over oil or for imperialist reasons but out of a genuine belief that large quantities of weapons of mass destruction remained unaccounted for.

Noting that Bush had to be "reeling" in the wake of the attacks of September 11, 2001, Clinton said Bush's first priority was to keep al Qaeda and other terrorist networks from obtaining "chemical and biological weapons or small amounts of fissile material."

"That's why I supported the Iraq thing. There was a lot of stuff unaccounted for," Clinton said in reference to Iraq and the fact that U.N. weapons inspectors left the country in 1998.

[quote=Juiced6]

There is no two ways around that.
[/quote]
See the above.

[quote=Juiced6]

And no Im not a Liberal democrat either.

Well your dead on about WW2 - but you twisted it to make it look like I am the idiot.  Japan and Germany were never allied?  Hmm then why did they share?  Why did Germany declare war on the US after the US declared on Japan?  But yeah they did not ally.

So 50% of this country is either on welfare or in prison?  I didnt know half this country was that poor and pathetic.  Or is because even honest working class folks, wealthy folks, and poor just do not care about politics?

I know what Clinton said however, I never brought up Clinton - once again you are rehashing typical republican nonsense - it is fun to mess with you guys because it is the same answer out of all of your mouths - you have yet to deny any of what I said but are quick to point out my faults of history that I never mentioned.

[quote=Juiced6]Also quick history lesson - wasn’t World War 2 started because of the victors of World War 1?

[/quote]

No.  WWII got started because of a power-mad dictator who did not
hesitate to send MILLIONS of his own people to their deaths so he could
enslave the Slavs (that the Nazis considered inferior) and have more
land for the expansion of the “fatherland”.



What we should learn from WWII is what can happen when you FAIL TO TAKE ACTION to a potential threat.



Britain and France knew Germany was rebuilding its military during the
1930s–in clear violation of Versailles.  Britain and France did
nothing.  They appeased Germany.  Germany took the
Rhineland.  Annexed Austria…Britain and France did nothing but
watch.  Then Prussia, Poland…by the time France and Britain
decided to actually do something it WAS TOO LATE.  Germany had
achieved critical mass and could not be stopped.



In the early days of WWII 1939 - 1940, even after declaring war,
Britain and France did little more than drop propaganda leaflets on
Germany.



In fact, French soldiers used to watch the Germans on the other side of the river amassing troops and did NOTHING.



France fell quickly.  Why?  Because they failed to act when they had the chance.



With each little victory Hitler grew more brazen because he saw how
easy it was to take what he wanted.  That emboldened him. 
Much like how the liberal cowards embolden the Terrorists by giving in
to their demands.

[quote=Juiced6]

History is funny especially for those who actually know it.