anabuhabkuss,

I didn't quite understand your last post.  Can I assume that you meant prospect and not client.  Since you had to tell the person that you were young, I will also assume that this was simply a phone call and not an in person meeting.  Additionally, since your response to his question didn't mention a someone who referred you to him, I will assume that this was a cold call.  Therefore, even if you were old and a CFP, the odds are still that you would not have secured the appointment. 

A referral from a well respected person will get you in all of the time.   A designation (of any type) and $2 will get you a cup of coffee.

It is a disservice to anybody who is reading this stuff to suggest that it is unnecessary--or even ill advised--to obtain a CFP designation.

There is no way to prove a negative, so you'll never know how many clients you did not get because your business card did not reflect the qualification.

I agree that there is nothing stronger than a well regarded recommendation--but once again the negative comes into play.  Just as you can never know if you missed a client, you can never know if you missed a referal.

The only people who are disdainful of the CFP designation are those who are either too lazy, or not bright enough, to obtain it.

Soon the education requirement will kick in--then you can expect those without the education to really start to sneer at those who are educated.

The next step will be to convince the populus that only people who have qualified as CFPs should be trusted.  The Dallas Morning News had a feature on it within the last week or two--citing the remarkable lack of qualification among those who hold themselves out to be "experts," but are actually little more than con artists attempting to convince the naive that they, the naive, can't do the most basic of things themselves.

[quote=anonymous]

anabuhabkuss,

I didn't quite understand your last post.  Can I assume that you meant prospect and not client.  Since you had to tell the person that you were young, I will also assume that this was simply a phone call and not an in person meeting.  Additionally, since your response to his question didn't mention a someone who referred you to him, I will assume that this was a cold call.  Therefore, even if you were old and a CFP, the odds are still that you would not have secured the appointment. 

A referral from a well respected person will get you in all of the time.   A designation (of any type) and $2 will get you a cup of coffee.[/quote]

you wasted a lot of freaking time assuming anonymous.

no, he has been a client of the group I work with for 6 years who's trying to weasel his way out of fees he let accumulate for the last 3 quaters so he can get some stock certificates sent out to his mother. He thought having an attitude adjustment for the worse would get him what he wanted without having to get off his couch.

Streetmaven, There's a huge issue if I'm getting or not getting business based upon my business card.  I know CFP's who don't have the designation on their card.

Don't you think that if someone wanted to know whether I am a CFP, they would ask?  I get asked more often if I am a CPA than whether I am a CFP.   In general, the public doesn't know the difference between CFP and some garbage designation that came out last week.  I'm not disdainful of it.  As I have mentioned, I will most likely sit next year.  I just don't see any indication as of right now, that my lost income from spending time studying for the exam, will be made up by additional revenue from having the letters.

anabuhabkuss, ok, what was the meaning of your post?

[quote=anonymous]

  I know CFP's who don't have the designation on their card. [/quote]

Yeah, right....

[quote=anonymous]

 As I have mentioned, I will most likely sit next year.  I just don't see any indication as of right now, that my lost income from spending time studying for the exam, will be made up by additional revenue from having the letters. [/quote]

I forgot, this is the guy that prospects 24/7 and therefore there aren't any hours during which study time doesn't displace making money. Yeah, that's the ticket. OTOH, isn't this the same guy who said he was studying for an insurance designation?

I wonder how studying for one costs prospecting time and studying for the other doesn't....

Mike, you need to work on your reading comprehension.  I work almost no evenings.  I'm not against getting the CFP.  I'm not against getting CLU/ChFC.   The classwork is identical except that the CLU/ChFC has more classes.  The knowledge is great to have.  I just don't think that the designations necessarily mean more business.  By all means, if you have the time to get them, go ahead and get them.   

I'm the guy who realizes that most people who get into this business fail.  I believe that they fail because they don't get in front of enough people.  Let's assume that it takes 500 hours of time to pass the CFP exam and someone can walk into 5000 businesses in this same time.  I contend that the person who walks into the 5000 businesses has a much better chance at surviving in this business.

Survive and then get designations to your heart's content.  A new guy needs to spend his time getting in front of clients.  This leaves evenings and weekends to get work done.  Time spent studying reduces a new guy's chance of success except for things that will help them make money today.    

So many new guys fail out of our business because they spend too much time studying and not enough time prospecting.  I've never met someone who didn't succeed because they spent too much time prospecting.  Yes, they have to study enough to pass the necessary exams.

[quote=anonymous] <?:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" />

Mike, you need to work on your reading comprehension.  I work almost no evenings.  [/quote]

Hmmm, but studying for the CFP would cut into your income because it would take time from prospecting...you can't study in the evenings?

[quote=anonymous]I'm not against getting the CFP.  [/quote]

It's just an accident that your every comment on it is an attempt to diminish its value...

[quote=anonymous]I'm not against getting CLU/ChFC. [/quote]

I would hope not, since you've told us they you're studying for it. However, it's still a question as to how studying for the insurance designation doesn't take income away from you but studying for the CFP would...

 [quote=anonymous] The classwork is identical except that the CLU/ChFC has more classes.  [/quote]

Well, there is that 10 hour, two day capstone exam (with the roughly 50% pass rate) that the CFP has and the insurance designation doesn't. Kind’a makes you wonder about the real value of those classes if the end effect of the process is a 50% failure rate. Perhaps it means you could sleep walk though the classes…

[quote=anonymous]  I just don't think that the designations necessarily mean more business. [/quote]

I don't recall anyone making that claim. Could you tell us who that was?

 [quote=anonymous] Let's assume that it takes 500 hours of time to pass the CFP exam and someone can walk into 5000 businesses in this same time.  [/quote]

Let's assume that people are bright enough to study when they can't be prospecting...

[quote=anonymous]I contend that the person who walks into the 5000 businesses has a much better chance at surviving in this business. [/quote]

I content you've created a strawman argument...

 [quote=anonymous] A new guy needs to spend his time getting in front of clients.  This leaves evenings and weekends to get work done.  Time spent studying reduces a new guy's chance of success except for things that will help them make money today.     [/quote]

Again, no one arguing in favor of the strawman that you've created, that being that you should study when you COULD be prospecting or doing anything else that can pay you now.

BTW, it's interesting how you go back and forth between this line of strawman argument and the one where you claim clients don't even care about the designation...

Mike, studying for the CFP would cut into my income simply because I'm not willing to study in the evenings.  I don't work evenings because I choose to spend that time with my family.  Study time does effect my income regardless of what I am studying. 

I understand that you think that I'm making a strawman argument.  I agree that if someone has time to study, it is a good thing.  I'm in favor of the CFP for two reasons.  1)The knowledge is good.  2)Clients might care about it in the future.  I just don't think that enough clients care now to make it an endeavor more important than prospecting.

Regardless, I don't think that a new guy has time to study without seriously hurting his chance to succeed.  If someone wants to maximize their chance of succeeding, they must do nothing but see people and fight to see them during the day.  This means that all work must be done in the evenings.  This simply doesn't leave time for studying.  

Survive first.  Study 2nd.

As for the CFP exam being difficult, it is.  So what?  When you do planning for your clients, you get to do it open book and use experts to help.  Your clients want you to be able to get all of the answers.  They don't expect you to know all of the answers.

[quote=anonymous]

Streetmaven, There's a huge issue if I'm getting or not getting business based upon my business card.  I know CFP's who don't have the designation on their card.

Don't you think that if someone wanted to know whether I am a CFP, they would ask?  I get asked more often if I am a CPA than whether I am a CFP.   In general, the public doesn't know the difference between CFP and some garbage designation that came out last week.  I'm not disdainful of it.  As I have mentioned, I will most likely sit next year.  I just don't see any indication as of right now, that my lost income from spending time studying for the exam, will be made up by additional revenue from having the letters.

anabuhabkuss, ok, what was the meaning of your post?

[/quote]

You can't just "sit" for the exam unless you are a CPA or an Attorney.  Otherwise you need to complete a qualified course that consists of 5 different modules.  I did the course on a home study basis and it took 6 months (approx) for each module.    After this testing in November, you can't get the designation unless you have a BA. You can still sit for the exam and pass it, but must have a BA to get the magic C. F. P.

I don't have a BA because I quit college in my senior year over 20 years ago for personal reasons.  I could go back and get my degree in MesoAmerican Anthropology or Ceramics, both really helpful disciplines for our business (not hardly), but I don't want to.  So instead, I am studying my ass off to pass the test in November.    Even if I do end up having to go back to college and throw some pots and make glazes (which actually could be fun) the studying and reviewing has been beneficial to my being a being a better, smarter advisor.  

As time goes on and more and more Baby Boomers and THIER children retire or inherit, you will find that you will not be getting the cream of the crop of clients without a CFP designation and will instead be getting the leftovers. 

Your call.

[quote=babbling looney]

I don't have a BA because I quit college in my senior year over 20 years ago for personal reasons.  I could go back and get my degree in MesoAmerican Anthropology or Ceramics, both really helpful disciplines for our business (not hardly), but I don't want to.  So instead, I am studying my ass off to pass the test in November.    Even if I do end up having to go back to college and throw some pots and make glazes (which actually could be fun) the studying and reviewing has been beneficial to my being a being a better, smarter advisor.  

As time goes on and more and more Baby Boomers and THIER children retire or inherit, you will find that you will not be getting the cream of the crop of clients without a CFP designation and will instead be getting the leftovers. 

Your call.

[/quote]

What will happen if you don't pass in November?  Will you be denied the right to retest due to your lack of a degree?

If you were to go back why would you seek a degree in Pottery, or whatever, instead of one in a relevant area?

[quote=Knows Wall St.]

[quote=babbling looney]

I don't have a BA because I quit college in my senior year over 20 years ago for personal reasons.  I could go back and get my degree in MesoAmerican Anthropology or Ceramics, both really helpful disciplines for our business (not hardly), but I don't want to.  So instead, I am studying my ass off to pass the test in November.    Even if I do end up having to go back to college and throw some pots and make glazes (which actually could be fun) the studying and reviewing has been beneficial to my being a being a better, smarter advisor.  

As time goes on and more and more Baby Boomers and THIER children retire or inherit, you will find that you will not be getting the cream of the crop of clients without a CFP designation and will instead be getting the leftovers. 

Your call.

[/quote]

What will happen if you don't pass in November?  Will you be denied the right to retest due to your lack of a degree?

If you were to go back why would you seek a degree in Pottery, or whatever, instead of one in a relevant area?

[/quote]

You can re-test and pass. You just can't get the designation until you have a degree.  I imagine there is a time frame in which to get a degree.....or maybe not.  They probably haven't though that far ahead.

I plan to pass.

Why the Hell should I do anything like starting all over for a different BA when all I have to do is about 18 units to complete my Art/ceramics concentration degree?  If the CFP Board doesn't care what my degree is in, and they don't, then I don't either.  

As I have stated before, I think it's a ridiculous requirement UNLESS the degree is in something relevant.  Since I have been in the business for over 15 years, passed all the CFP courses over a 2 1/2 year time frame and they don't want to take my experience as any sort of a qualifier......screw-em.    If I don't pass, maybe I should get a degree in Computer Game Design.  That would be fun as well, and makes about as much sense as a degree in Art or French Renaissance Literature qualifies a person for the CFP.

babbling looney, I’ll be able to sit next year because I’ll have my CLU/ChFC.  I agree that the fact that you would have to go get your degree is a meaningless requirement for someone with your experience.

[quote=anonymous]babbling looney, I'll be able to sit next year because I'll have my CLU/ChFC.  I agree that the fact that you would have to go get your degree is a meaningless requirement for someone with your experience.[/quote]

It's all about having standards.  It's great that Wall Street is finally getting standards.

With luck within a generation it will be impossible to enter the business without a degree--as it should have been all along.

[quote=Knows Wall St.]

[quote=anonymous]babbling looney, I'll be able to sit next year because I'll have my CLU/ChFC.  I agree that the fact that you would have to go get your degree is a meaningless requirement for someone with your experience.[/quote]

I stand corrected on that.  Thanks.

It's all about having standards.  It's great that Wall Street is finally getting standards.

With luck within a generation it will be impossible to enter the business without a degree--as it should have been all along.

[/quote]

So, a degree in Wardrobe Design, or Women's Studies or Film History or Ceramics is an acceptable standard for being a stock broker?  I hardly think so.   If the standard is to be a meaningful and true standard then make the hurdle to entering the business something logical.  If not then, there is no purpose.

I agree, Babs...it's ridiculous to not require a relevant bachelor's degree.  I like the prerequisite of a four-year degree (we can only hope that this might actually shut Dirk up), but it should at least be in something business related.

...and BTW, I don't think you'll have any problems with the November test...you don't strike me as someone who scored 70% on her series 7 exam...on the 3rd attempt...

[quote=Indyone]

I agree, Babs...it's ridiculous to not require a relevant bachelor's degree.  I like the prerequisite of a four-year degree (we can only hope that this might actually shut Dirk up), but it should at least be in something business related.

...and BTW, I don't think you'll have any problems with the November test...you don't strike me as someone who scored 70% on her series 7 exam...on the 3rd attempt...

[/quote]

Thanks....91% on the first try BTW. 

[quote=babbling looney]

So, a degree in Wardrobe Design, or Women's Studies or Film History or Ceramics is an acceptable standard for being a stock broker?  I hardly think so.   If the standard is to be a meaningful and true standard then make the hurdle to entering the business something logical.  If not then, there is no purpose.

[/quote]

Ideally a degree in something relevant would be required, but a degree in anything is better than a degree in nothing.

A journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step.

How can you all argue for pages with nothing to show for it?