B24, good points.

I'm not going to pretend that our industry would change overnight, and stop cold calling - but it would be the best thing for everyone.

This thread is about the Nick Murray script, and it is time to stop beating around the bush. Cold calling is sleazy.

These days, you pretty much have to have four years of college to be an RR. The idea of having college graduates call people on the phone of show up cold in person to sell anything is offensive to most people. Do you like being interrupted at home with sales calls?

The owners and managers (trainers and marketers) of some segments of our industry still choose to accrete the labor of some young workers by condoning this practice ( you can just work your natural market, or you can cold call, whatever, just go for it and produce GDC).

Other companies are more responsible and don't allow it altogether. The do not call list has evolved to help protect the public, but beyond that, those RRs who choose to cold call are degrading the professional image of all who call themself advisor.

It is time for people like Nick Murray, who should know better and made plenty of money for himself, to step up and help lead the next generation of advisors, instead of pretending that it's all about numbers.

To suggest that "social networking" is sleazy justs perpetuates the wirehouse myth, which is about corporate greed. Most "wirehouses" are moving forward into the present day with marketing and social networking, anyway.

There is nothing noble or courageous about cold calling, anyone can be trained to do it, and it is still annoying and unprofessional. It is time for our industry to get it together, so we can help more people (by not chasing them and making it our agenda) - rather having them come to a more uniform product of educated advisors. The fact that you started your business by cold calling twenty years ago is interesting, but not important to how we need to conduct ourselves as professionals in an era of reduced trust.

Like I said, my problem is with the ethics of social prospectors. They say they are all about the cause or activity, but really they're all about the money. Kinda like a guy who says he's all about golf and that he joined a club only for the love of the game, yet comes on here and STARTS a thread entitled Golf Prospecting. In that thread, from years ago, he brain storms with others on his low key approach to others at the club and, this is classic, how to prospect at the club before golf season starts! He goes on about how he's scoped out the competition at the club.  Not the golf competition, the broker competition.

But it's not about business? it's about the love of the game and helping friends. That's funny!

I'm not cynical, just smart enough to see the truth.

Sleazy doesn't cover it.

Our club has dentists, chiros, orthos, lawyers, etc - you play and you make friends, and if people like you and trust you, maybe they ask you do business with them and their friends. It's called reputation. Happy to report, what I started years ago is bearing fruit.

If you haven't tried it, you're not really qualified to be making claims. You think you're smart, and you feel qualifed to judge what you don't know. I started my business cold calling decades ago, and I have transitioned to showing people who I am and if they ask what I do, they know in the back of their minds I can help them.

As for cold calling, I have high expectations for the next generation of professionals, they deserve better. They invest in college and training and sweat equity, we shouldn't be lowering the professionalism of all advisors by allowing a few greedy firms and practitioners to make us look like we're just trying to make the next product sale.

You are entitled to cold call or be the godfather of cold calling, but don't think your s*** is not stinking up the profession.

You told us on this thread no more than a few posts ago that you didn't join the club for business, but there it is, from three years ago, your own golf prospecting thread. Now you're defending yourself. That's funny!

Like i said, say what you will about cold calling, if nothing else, it's honest. And, without it you would be washing golf carts at that club instead of snaking your way through the membership list.

So, to sum it up:

1. I'm a liar.

2. I'm defensive.

3. That's funny.

4. Cold calling is honest.

5. Social networking is dishonest.

6. I would never have made it in the industry without cold calling.

7. By maintaining my book through referrals and social networking, I'm a slithering snake.

8. Instead of social networking, ethical advisors should be cold calling.

9. Advisors should not consider developing social networking as an alternative to cold calling.

I'm munching some popcorn, wondering what the hell I'm reading...

Two gnats fighting on the head of a pin diverting attention from the economic train wreck.

Exactly. My biz partner and I were just contemplating when the first newbie RR says he was born when the market was higher than his series 7 pass date. Ten year treasury yield, man.... Something big is about to happen. Looking at the charts from the 70s, I'm thinking the market is about to make a quick move nearly 30% higher. Looking at taxable fixed income, it really looks like a sell. Munis I'm fine with, higher taxes help the pricing, but taxables look totally overpriced. I've substituted some taxable fixed income into utility holdings, gold and silver etfs. The pm, not big allocations, but about 4-5% of total portfolio. How about you?

[quote=tenthtee]

So, to sum it up:

1. I'm a liar. Closer to self absorbed. you don't see what you're doing as unethical.

2. I'm defensive. Yes

3. That's funny. Only that you started a thread about the very aspect you deny in this thread. Funny, but not in a haha kinda way.

4. Cold calling is honest.  Absolutely ! From a business POV it's a means to an end. As for it being unprofessional, nothing could be further from the truth. When i call i'm offering opportunity!

5. Social networking is dishonest. It doesn't have to be. Unfortunately, the way many practice it, it is. Business people joining service clubs for self interest rather than the cause.  Others circulating in HNW crowds to skim a piece of the action for themselves.  That's dishonest.

6. I would never have made it in the industry without cold calling. Really, the path not taken is unknowable. But you said yourself that you started out cold calling for how many years? Likely that as a raw rookie you wouldn't have had the dough to join a club or the experience to make it work. But really there is no way to know.

7. By maintaining my book through referrals and social networking, I'm a slithering snake. Again, my take from what you've posted. Most others at your club, as in 99 out of 100, have joined for one reason, the love of golf. They want a place to play, relax, and enjoy, nothing more. Yet, you joined for the business connections you could make. That's not to say you to don't love golf. Just, not your reason for joining. Joining was part of a plan. That, in the time since you've joined you've become friends with many of the members and now also count them as clients is problematic for me. The problem, they don't know that their coming to do business with you was part of a carefully executed marketing plan. They believe it is all based on friendship. That's the snake factor.

8. Instead of social networking, ethical advisors should be cold calling. or social networking ethically, or utilizing referrals, seminars or cold calling.  Interestingly, even those who feel about cold calling as you do,  use it as part of their prospecting. For example they use cold calls to business people to invite them to golf. But, because they are pitching a fun golf outting instead of a product, they don't consider themselves cold callers.

9. Advisors should not consider developing social networking as an alternative to cold calling. Advisors should develope as many effective marketing channels as they feel comfortable doing. The key words are comfortable and effective. Spread too thin and nothing works. Social prospecting done ethically could be one of those channels. And, not as an alternative to the primary marketing channel. In addition to.

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Yeah, the Dow hit 10,000 in March 1999.

For commodity or sector, I've mainly used some energy ETFs (VDE) as part of the large cap allocation. Not really worth screwing with small amounts of commodities. Some basic materials (VAW) as part of the large cap allocation.

Maybe I moved my bonds early, but they are mostly short (BSV) and intermediate (BND). Short duration for TEs.

I'm ready for 30% higher or lower. After the tech meltdown in 2000, the recession, 9/11, and the financial meltdown, bailouts, the progressive train wreck, debt, printing money (Fed Reserve actions) - I've decided to go for yield, with about a third to half in diversified stocks, depending on the risk questionaire.

Since the financial meltdown, I'm keeping fixed income more conservative (higher quality) to help reduce potential portfolio volatitility (like, terrrorism or market panics), and keeping clients invested in the "right" amount of equities.

In other words, really boring portfolios with a nod to the economic cycle. Being the guy who is delegated by clients to follow all of the drama, take the emotional hit, and have courage.

 BG, you remind me of a lawyer or a politician. 

Tenth, and you remind me of every card pusher i've ever met at charity fund raisers. I guess that makes us even. Let's move on.

I have a question about your fixed income strategy. Why are you worried about portfolio volatility?

With regards to golf, I only talk about golf. You are correct in saying folks just want to relax and play golf and not think about business.

If someone asks what I do, I say, " I own my own business, it is a small shop at X, I manage money for my clients, I specialize is small business, retirement, and my staff and I provide a lot of personal service, I've been doing it for X years, it is affiliated with Y b/d, and I love it."

End of elevator speech.

People who want to talk about something other than golf, usually like to talk about themselves. 

Never give out business cards, but do follow up with an email and LinkedIn connection, where appropriate (all personal).

Naturally, I do other things, too. These may appear in the book " Cold Calling is for Geeks". It will cost more than Nick Murray's book.

I'm curious, when was the last time you made a cold call? Are you a corporate trainer, or something?

Do you feel comfortable asking for referrals, and making it easy for your clients to give them?

You like to ignore most of what I feel are the substantial comments, maybe someone else would like to pick this up: Don't young people coming into our industry feel 'used' when they are asked to cold call, after investing in college, training, and sweat equity? That is the point, in addition to the idea that cold calling is tacky and invasive and old school.

Sorry to change the subject here, but this is important.

Lord of the Rings, or Star Wars?

IMHO, Lord of the Rings is soooo much better. Star Wars is all style, no substance. But, the best debate on this subject can be found from the movie, Clerks 2.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AxAEo3CWeq8

[quote=tenthtee]

With regards to golf, I only talk about golf. You are correct in saying folks just want to relax and play golf and not think about business.

If someone asks what I do, I say, " I own my own business, it is a small shop at X, I manage money for my clients, I specialize is small business, retirement, and my staff and I provide a lot of personal service, I've been doing it for X years, it is affiliated with Y b/d, and I love it."

End of elevator speech.

People who want to talk about something other than golf, usually like to talk about themselves. 

Never give out business cards, but do follow up with an email and LinkedIn connection, where appropriate (all personal).

Naturally, I do other things, too. These may appear in the book " Cold Calling is for Geeks". It will cost more than Nick Murray's book.

I'm curious, when was the last time you made a cold call? Are you a corporate trainer, or something?

Do you feel comfortable asking for referrals, and making it easy for your clients to give them?

You like to ignore most of what I feel are the substantial comments, maybe someone else would like to pick this up: Don't young people coming into our industry feel 'used' when they are asked to cold call, after investing in college, training, and sweat equity? That is the point, in addition to the idea that cold calling is tacky and invasive and old school.

[/quote]

What is the alternative??

A young person coming out of college can't :

1. afford to join a country club to develop leads

2. develop their former coworkers because they don't have any

3 rely on previous business contacts, again because they don't have any

4. Get referrals, because they have no clients

5. Rely on friends, because they too just graduated college...

To me and it was once compared on here to a first year lawyer...

1. You do the summer internship at the law firm you want to work at (for advisors that would be getting hired and initial training stages)

2. Get hired as an attorney at said firm and begin to build billable hours, working many nights while partners leave early (advisors start to prospecting(seminars, door knocking, coldcalling) to build a pipeline of prospects and gain clients)

3. Attorney continues to work hard year 2-4 .. (advisor continues to prospect but also spend more time on clients(as they grow) and developing referrals))

Or something like that..

When was the last time I cold called?

Today. The drugery of it! I hate it! But, my manger says it will make me a success. I sure hope he's right because this cold callin stuff....It sucks!

Are you a corporate trainer?

Nope, I'm just a lowly indian. I'm hoping to move up to assistant to the assistant trainer some day. I'm an old guy, but i still have dreams!!!!

Referrals? Man i wish i could get those. i hear they're the way to go, people just showin up with their $5,000 checks.  No calling, no arm bending, just real clean! Easy money! Damn! Could never figure that out! I guess you get a lot of that down at the club, huh?

On the cold calling thing? Cold calling doesn't need to be defended. No one is forced to cold call. So, i didn't ignore your comment, i chose not to respond to it.

However in the interest of detente, let me take a stab at this:

So you know, i get a lot of PMs here asking for help. Rookies have taken what i've posted on this site and along with some extra guidance have launched themselves off the pad to amazing heights with blazing speed. I'm impressed by several of these people. And i don't impress easy.  These people worked their asses off smilin' and dialin!'  In the last few years I've seen more than one cross the 400k mark by year 3. And, the trainees in my office? One did over $700k his fourth year. Imagine that, this Villanova grad took home 325k net in year four! All he did was dial the phone and ask people to buy something from him. And, even the ones doing 300k gross by year three, not bad!!!! Yeah, these college grads feel really used making six figure incomes, which for most of them is only the beginning.

Does that answer it for you?

You didn't answer my bond question.

You're obviously being patronzing with the lowly Indian stuff, so I don't think we should continue on to bonds.

You and I move in different worlds. Anyone can get out of the office and create relationships, I'm sure a lot of this has to do with corporate control. By challenging you, I realize I'm taking on the whole wirehouse model.

For you young gunslingers out there who think you need to cold call to get into the business, there is a better way. You are free to roll the dice and risk having someone else accrete the fruits of your labor if you like, but there is a better way to become a professional in this industry, and signing up at a wirehouse bullpen is probably not the best first move if you want things like ownership, professionalism, better payout, and freedom.

The real issue is how do you get paid a salary to learn the business and become a producer. Many smaller shops could give you some work, but many of you have to stop believing the cold calling cowboy myth if you want to be working in this business in five years.

In that sense, I would hold Nick Murray accountable for being self-serving, in the way that he claims to be holding prospects accountable to themselves when he cold calls. If the profession is a nest, some of you have been pooping in it, and you old successful guys are witnessing change to the new model whether you like it or not.

But even having this conversation is just a diversion from work, so whatever you say, I'm sure you're comfortable and I respect you for your success. I'm not saying cold calling is evil, I'm just saying it cheapens us all as professionals. If you're not getting referrals, this could be a yellow blinking light. Not that you probably care. It's hard to have a real conversation on the boards and read your body language and get the big picture, when you are sarcastic and when you are real, or if you're really as big of a dick as you like to come off as here, but it really doesn't matter.

There's no point in us two rehashing our positions. I thought there might be some younger folks wanting to join into the discussion, but I realize the smart ones are probably busy making cold calls at your firm, or are learning at small RIA firms or independent b/d shops and aren't looking for ideas or conversation here.

Here's a dirty little secret: People cold call because it works. Huge practices have been built using cold calling. Today huge practices ARE being built via cold calling. And, when you are an expert in a niche, i mean really good,  it's amazing how much money people, strangers, throw at you.

Here's news flash: cold calling is back. it's back big!!!!!

Here's one more tidbit for the uninformed. You know that blueblooded corporate titan client who gives you the thumbs up from across the table whenever you launch into your holier than thou cold callers are crooks speech? That guy just bought a bond from me. I did in two phone calls what took you 3 years to get done. And now you've got a problem. A problem you don't even know you have. Me! Over the next few months your client is going to get to see the wonder of me show. I  gotta tell ya, it's good, really good! And, when i'm done I'll have more of that client's assets than you do. That is, if you have any at all. But not to worry. You can still take him to lunch and more importantly, treat him to golf. After-all, it is about the love of the game.

If political correctness was not so annoying and taxing, I might feel sorry for you, BG.

[quote=BondGuy]

Here's a dirty little secret: People cold call because it works. Huge practices have been built using cold calling. Today huge practices ARE being built via cold calling. And, when you are an expert in a niche, i mean really good,  it's amazing how much money people, strangers, throw at you.

Here's news flash: cold calling is back. it's back big!!!!!

Here's one more tidbit for the uninformed. You know that blueblooded corporate titan client who gives you the thumbs up from across the table whenever you launch into your holier than thou cold callers are crooks speech? That guy just bought a bond from me. I did in two phone calls what took you 3 years to get done. And now you've got a problem. A problem you don't even know you have. Me! Over the next few months your client is going to get to see the wonder of me show. I  gotta tell ya, it's good, really good! And, when i'm done I'll have more of that client's assets than you do. That is, if you have any at all. But not to worry. You can still take him to lunch and more importantly, treat him to golf. After-all, it is about the love of the game.

 +1.

One quick question...what is your dial to contact ratio?

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