Wow, the Patriots are ARROGANT!
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The only guy on your list whose opinion I respect is Tony Dungy. But Tony Dungy was well known an ULTRA conservative coach. He'd be the last coach I would expect to do what Belichick did. Shannon Sharpe? You think he's got a job because his opinions are well thought out and articulate? Brian Billick? He was fired because his offense was offensive. It would be a funny moment the day that Belichick re-considers a decision he made based off of Brian Billick thinking it wasn't a smart move. Rodney Harrison? He was on the Pats defense last year. He's spent his last 6 years expecting Belichick to trust his unit (No pun intended). Harrison is probably mad at Belichick because he didn't trust the defense that he helped anchor for the last half decade. His opinion is heavily biased.Yeah, I guess you guys are right. It’s only the talking heads that think that was a crap call. Tony Dunge, Phil Simms, Rodney Harrison, Brian Billick, Shannon Sharpe…what a bunch of hacks.
[quote=3rdyrp2]
Ice, what makes coaches like Bill Belichick separate from their peers? Its their ability to not always go by the book and to make a decision based off of your gut and not off of conventional methods. If Belichick always went by the book then he'd be Dom Capers or Herman Edwards or a high school coach. I'm not saying it was a good call, but I can understand why he made it. Would he have done that had Alex Smith been on the other sideline instead of Peyton Manning? Ha! Geez, what are the odds that Peyton would have driven them downfield for the win had they punted? 75%? So the odds are they would have lost anyways. The guy is being crucified for making a gut decision. I think a worse decision was for Andy Reid to kick a FG at the end of the game last week instead of going for it on 4th since the Eagles were down by a TD.
[/quote] ....and reid kicked 3 fgs this week with 4th and goal from the 1. Who has a bigger front butt, Reid or Weis ?Hate the Pats. Hate their coach. He’s arrogant.
He made the smart football move. This wasn't done against some team with a hack quarterback on the other side. This was done against a team with the best QB in the league with lots of time on the clock. Let's take a guess at the odds of success. By going for it, NE has two chances to win. If they get the first down they win. If they don't get the first down and stop Ind from scoring a touchdown from the 30, they win. By kicking, they win if they can stop Indianapolis from scoring a touchdown with probably about a 65 yard drive. As a guess, NE probably had about a 75% chance getting a first down and then probably a 35% chance of stopping a touchdown. If they punted, they probably had about a 75% chance of stopping the touchdown. If my odds are anywhere close to being correct, NE made the right move.Played football in high school. Stopped watching after that. But this interested me.
Statistically speaking, the probability is even higher than anon suggests. 4th down conversions have a 83% chance of succeeding.
I agree that Bellichick likely either did it out of arrogance or to be unpredictable. But, read David Romer’s paper on “Do Firms Maximize? Evidence from the National Football League”. Teams would maximize their chances of winning, if they go for it in the 4th quarter on any 4th and short.
I’m not looking at it from any other angle than emotionless. Who does he coach? Who were they playing?
Ok. The initial comment was The Pats are arrogant. Yes they are. Just a few weeks ago they were throwing the ball with a backup QB and a 50pt lead. Belichek is arrogant and most of the time he is right. He may of blown this call, but if they got the first it wouldnt even be talked about today. Instead because the genius F'ed up the entire sports world wants to pummel him. That is the way it works. The media, sports or otherwise, wants to pile on and kick people after the fact. You can keep Trent Dilfer, Tom Jackson, Mike Ditka, Keyshawn, Teddy Bruschi. Ice you are better than that. These clowns are talking heads because that is the only job people will pay them to do. That doesn't mean their opinion is right. The bottom line is the Pats lost this game the moment Maroney fumbled on the 1 inch line and Belichek was doing all he could to prevent that.Stats don’t apply here. Most 4th downs that get attempted, are either a) 4th & inches, OR b) attempted by the team that is LOSING, hence the team that is WINNING is playing a soft defense to protect against the big play, and likely giving up more stuff underneath and/or short runs.
I understand the logic, and the attempt to defend this call. Bellichick did it out of arrogance. And even if he didn’t, it was still the WRONG call.
As far as all of this “being scared of the Colts offense” - they dominated the Colts for 2 1/2 quarters. Without a few unlikely turnovers, this conversation wouldn’t even be happening. It’s not that they COULDN’T stop the Colts, they started playing defense to not get beat deep, and allowed underneath stuff.
By the way, Mike Ditka, Keyshawn Johnson, and Tom Jackson are on ESPN right now agreeing with me, too.
Lol. I will concede that the ENTIRE media is killing Belichick. Main reason: Everybody knows that Belichick is the most arrogant coach in all of sports and people just salivate for the chance to say he is wrong. With Bruschi, like I said about Rodney Harrison, he helped anchor that defense over the past decade. He has been programmed to believe that the Patriots defense will stop whatever challenge comes their way. He has always expected the coach to trust his defense. Unfortunately for him, Rodney Harrison isn't walking through that door. Tedy Bruschi and Mike Vrabel aren't walking through that door. Ellis Hobbs and Asante Samuel aren't walking through that door. Last word: If they were in NE, the call would have been to punt. The crowd there would have been loud enough to cause problems for Manning calling plays at the line of scrimmage. Last night though, it would have been pure silence and Manning could have slapped Jeff Saturday's ass and fans in the nosebleeds could have heard the smack. The field would have been Mannings playground in those last 2 minutes.
PSS - Tedy Bruschi agrees with me too.
[quote=voltmoie] [quote=Jebediah][quote=voltmoie]Hey man, embrace your homosexual stalker tendencies. You've made 8 posts on this thread since Windy's last. Be honest with us, do you have his picture as your screen saver? You and the Jew hater seem to have alot in common. [/quote] Let me see if I have this straight. It is pretty obvious I dislike windy. You on the other hand joined into a thread to defend another dude, have been counting my posts, and have a dude as your avatar. Once again, he who argues vehemently that someone else is gay is often time projecting.[/quote][quote=mlgone]PUNT ABSOLUTLEY[/quote]
THAT’S
BECAUSE
UR
A
PUZZY
Do you deny you stalk men on internet forums?
[/quote] Who is the stalker again?
No No, I know your not piling on. I was the first one to answer your post. The game wasn't over. I know. I am just saying you don't need to use the talking heads or Hall of Famers turned gurus to prove your point. That is what I meant by you being better than that. If it is your opinion, go with it. You don't need those strokes to prove your point.I’m better than that? I’m jumping on the pile in retrospect? Read my first post Ron; I posted this thread before I knew the outcome.
And categorizing some of these guys as “talking heads” is borderline insulting.
[quote=voltmoie] [quote=Jebediah][quote=voltmoie]Hey man, embrace your homosexual stalker tendencies. You've made 8 posts on this thread since Windy's last. Be honest with us, do you have his picture as your screen saver? You and the Jew hater seem to have alot in common. [/quote] Let me see if I have this straight. It is pretty obvious I dislike windy. You on the other hand joined into a thread to defend another dude, have been counting my posts, and have a dude as your avatar. Once again, he who argues vehemently that someone else is gay is often time projecting.[/quote][quote=voltmoie] [quote=mlgone]PUNT ABSOLUTLEY[/quote]
THAT’S
BECAUSE
UR
A
PUZZY
Do you deny you stalk men on internet forums?
[/quote] Who is the stalker again?[/quote]
ML .. make a mistake and post with your Jeb. screenname? At least we've connect two dots now.
Both Jaworski and Gruden are siding w/Belichick on the call. Maybe after debating and hearing both sides of the argument the experts are starting to turn a new leaf.
This is unrelated but where were all of these Peyton Manning lovers 5 years ago. I have always been a huge fan and 5 years ago the beating he took was relentlesss. Can’t win the big one, Can’t beat Patriots, Can’t beat Florida, He is overrated, He is a poor mans Dan Marino, He has bad body language on the field, He always pouts after bad plays, His line of scrimmage movements stop momentum, blah blah blah. Now all of the sudden everyone is on his train ? This is why I hate these talking heads. They are never out in front, they only comment after the fact.
As a Colts fan, I’ll tell you that I thought Belichick absolutely made the right call. Come on, Ice…Everybody at Lucas Oil Stadium KNEW what was going to happen when the Pats punted. Of course, Manning was going to drive the ball 70 yards and score with 13 seconds on the clock. Belichick sensed that the momentum had changed and knew that he had to do what he could to keep Manning off the field. It didn’t matter if it was 30 yards or 70 yards…Manning has shown the ability to go 90 yards in less than two minutes, so yardage wasn’t an issue. Had Belichick told the defense to let Payton score on the first play from scrimmage, Brady would have had nearly two minutes to do the same and I like his chances almost as much as I like Manning’s. That may sound like crazy talk, but from someone who has had a vested intedest in this matchup long before it was sexy, it has evolved into whoever has the ball last is gonna win.
Look, we can debate this until eternity, but I'll submit that Belichick made the right call and wins that game 4 out of 5 times. Indy's defense was jacked up and made a great play, but I honestly expected it to go the other way and I think Belichick was playing the odds and trying to give his team the best chance to win (1) on the road and (2) against what is likely the best team in the AFC, especially if they get healthy. I'll give you Belichick's arrogance. I can't stand the man's persona, but I very much respect what he's done in New England. Tom Brady doesn't get in the HOF without Bill Belichick. That's my two pennies.Hey Indy, where’ve you been?
As a long suffering Jets fan and 26 year season ticket holder, i hate Belicheck more than i hate anyone in professional sports. But like Indy said, give the man his due. You have to believe that he knows his team, knows what they can do, and as one local commentator said today, he realized that the colts are like his teams Kryptonite. And he made his decision based on that, and probably like you said Indy, the odds were with him. It just didnt work out this time. Imagine if it did...he would be every Bostonians hero. All i can hope is that doing what he did has demoralized his defense, knowing that he doesnt have the confidence that they can step up, and they let the Jets run amock over them this Sunday. Doubt it. Whatever, i still hate his f'in gutsI been movin’!
Rodney Harrison and Teddy Bruschi may disagree, but Belichick's offense is the better side of the team these days and I think Belichick knows it.[quote=Indyone] As a Colts fan, I’ll tell you that I thought Belichick absolutely made the right call. Come on, Ice…Everybody at Lucas Oil Stadium KNEW what was going to happen when the Pats punted. Of course, Manning was going to drive the ball 70 yards and score with 13 seconds on the clock. Belichick sensed that the momentum had changed and knew that he had to do what he could to keep Manning off the field. It didn’t matter if it was 30 yards or 70 yards…Manning has shown the ability to go 90 yards in less than two minutes, so yardage wasn’t an issue. Had Belichick told the defense to let Payton score on the first play from scrimmage, Brady would have had nearly two minutes to do the same and I like his chances almost as much as I like Manning’s. That may sound like crazy talk, but from someone who has had a vested intedest in this matchup long before it was sexy, it has evolved into whoever has the ball last is gonna win.
Look, we can debate this until eternity, but I’ll submit that Belichick made the right call and wins that game 4 out of 5 times. Indy’s defense was jacked up and made a great play, but I honestly expected it to go the other way and I think Belichick was playing the odds and trying to give his team the best chance to win (1) on the road and (2) against what is likely the best team in the AFC, especially if they get healthy. I’ll give you Belichick’s arrogance. I can’t stand the man’s persona, but I very much respect what he’s done in New England. Tom Brady doesn’t get in the HOF without Bill Belichick.
That’s my two pennies.[/quote]
Finally, someone who understands the Colts/Pats history. Last team with the ball usually wins.
Indyone, I’m a diehard Pats fan and was crushed when they lost that game but I agree with the call 100%. Problem is, when you gamble like that, you better win. Most Pats fans agreed with the call.
Why do I have a feeling it will be a rematch again in January???
SFB, Sorry man…my pain was eased somewhat by watching BB mentally destroy Sanchizzzzzeee the following week…
OK, gotta get on this flight in a few hours to New Orleans to see if my Pats can stop the Saints…should be a blast!!!
Yup, it was brutal. Saints are unreal and the city was electric all weekend before the game. The fans are pretty passionate.
Oh, Quags, are you jumping on the bandwagon or are you just routing for anyone who beats the pats? Show yourself!
I’ll go for anyone that beats the Pat’s!! However, I am concerned that my Colts may meet them in the Superbowl and the Saints are very intimidating at this point.
The Pats have no defense, so we can write them off. The Saints appear to have it all this year. I can still remember them as the Ain'ts...not the same team. Go Colts! Superbowl score...Colts 35...Saints 31.