In fact, BG,  you bear responsibility for the fact that millions of American children are hungry. It is a combination of your failed Great Society programs and selfish wealth accumulation from Wall Street that brings us to our knees. If you had focused on one or the other, maybe you would really have something interesting to say to the group.

Exactly, big fire. This thing is still playing out. At precisely the time when America has promoted free trade, labor immigration, Bush tax cuts and such, she chokes. ( Selfish baby boomers who did not save jockeying for position with their hands held out to Uncle Sam.)

And then libs like BG start to do a slow about-face, reluctantly voting for the fiscal conservative candidate to try a new strategy. If you don't believe in yourself first and the markets, why in the heck are you making a living selling debt? This is the pinnacle of hypocrisy. Barney Frank is the poster boy for this liberal hypocrisy. Bush is the poster boy for the old school corporate status quo. Things have gotta change, don't make fun of the messengers.

I visited some young students at a Big Ten college this week. I can assure you, the next big wave of enthusiasm will be young people saying "no" to the entitlement borrowing and false charity of the baby boomers.

Watch California melt down. I'm sorry, this is not what I want to be talking and thinking about.

Here are your Goldman Sachs progressive Bond Guys, now trying to justify their own wealth through "charity" and good works. I'm all for redemption, but first you have to confess and come clean.

 http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/04/16/goldman-sachs-fraud-expla_n_540938.html

[quote=Times7]

In fact, BG,  you bear responsibility for the fact that millions of American children are hungry. It is a combination of your failed Great Society programs and selfish wealth accumulation from Wall Street that brings us to our knees. If you had focused on one or the other, maybe you would really have something interesting to say to the group.

[/quote]

Dude, have you ever stopped to smell your own bullshit?

Stop talking - start showing links please! Show us the failed great society programs. Show is the liberal spending that has brought us to our knees. Less than ten years ago Clinton handed the repubs a budget surplus. No failed policies on that day in 2001. The hole we find ourselves in was dug by republican shovels.

By the way, what's the deal with you, just troll with a whacked out point of view?

BG, if you want to have a discussion, ok, but you need to lay off the heavy handed tactics. Of course, World history shows, that when liberals take power, freedom of speech tends to go out the window, right around the time gun rights are gone too.... I can send links, but I'm sure you're familiar with German, Russian, Cuban, Venezuelan, and Cambodian politics.

BG, you talk about Federal spending cuts, in only one department, defense. Well, Roosevelt did the same thing, and at Pearl Harbor, Denmark had a larger army than the USA. I'd agree that defense spending needs to be reduced, but not at the comprimise of national defense. But, at the same time, if govt cannot get itself out of 70% of the economy, then that speaks to a larger issue. The govt has become a living, breathing, and EATING entity, truly,....a beast.  

[quote=BigFirepower]

Times7, very well stated. 

Our country needs to head into the direction of less regulation, less nanny state, smaller government. Good Americans are tired of picking up the tab when it comes to pitiful Americans that don't work, criminals, do drugs, no taxes, live irresponsible lives. This new Healthcare Government Take Over, is basically the biggest federal heist of all time, in the history of the world.  Unchallenged, it will make our health care WORSE, and bankrupt us even faster than what we're doing right now. The UK has just cut substantially into their Federal Budget, it's high time we do this as well.

[/quote]

Big ,didn't you say you didn't want to talk politics? What you really meant was you don't know what you are talking about, can't back up statements you've mimicked off the local Tea Party website, and are just as clueless as the rest of the tea party followers. That and you want the dems out and you don't care how that happens.

To be against  healthcare you'd have to really understand how it works. Which, I'm sure you don't. But, benefit of a doubt, care to explain how the healthcare plan is the biggest federal heist of all time? Big, that's your cue to come back and say you don't want to talk politics.

Bond Guy, I'm sure it makes you feel better to call me an uninformed idiot, but I can assure you, that if I wanted to back up every statement I make, I could source the issues.

Would you like me to detail Hillary Clinton's pork belly futures trading for you?

Would you like me to explain how the UST shut down 30 yr bonds, for the benefit of the deficit, playing games, then letting GS profit from it?

I mean, we can have a real field day if you'd like? And how about my claims of vote fraud, care to debate that?

Or, maybe we'll just let the election do the talking, and we get back to biz?

Peace guy, I have all sorts of liberal friends, I can handle it.  

[quote=BigFirepower]

Bond Guy, I'm sure it makes you feel better to call me an uninformed idiot, but I can assure you, that if I wanted to back up every statement I make, I could source the issues.

Would you like me to detail Hillary Clinton's pork belly futures trading for you?

Would you like me to explain how the UST shut down 30 yr bonds, for the benefit of the deficit, playing games, then letting GS profit from it?

I mean, we can have a real field day if you'd like? And how about my claims of vote fraud, care to debate that?

Or, maybe we'll just let the election do the talking, and we get back to biz?

Peace guy, I have all sorts of liberal friends, I can handle it.  

[/quote]

No, you don't have to back up any of that, only the false claims you've made here earlier. Or, you can run and hide again and say, "I'm not into politics and don't want to talk about it."

The point of this thread is the dishonest nature of this election, of folks being intentionally mislead. You among them. But, apparently OK with you as long as the dems lose. Which surprises me. One of the tea Party's whacko claims is that the dems are practicing Marxism. And here you are, Ok with the lies. The end justifies the means, eh Big? Wow, that's irony! And, entertaining that you don't get it!

Dude, let's talk about the Goldman progressives. You and I sell securites and make a good living.

You try to serve two masters: Wall Street and a progressive agenda. I serve Wall Street and the elimination of big government.

No one is saying that we don't need liquidity in the system, but if you are going to sit here and make a living pitching debt while U.S. debt spirals out of control, AND be a hypocrite by blaming this party or that, you're just diverting attention away from the little man behind the curtain.

In terms of Goldman, "Bond Guy", you are that little man, with a lot of good friends in the White House and our Congress. And a big bank account full of bonds, I'll bet.

The world has changed, and you know it. I was around during the high tech boom of the 90's, you can sit here and talk about the good old days of Clinton ( for whom I voted ) - or you can at least quit trying to appease your guilt on a capitalist forum. Sheeesh. You're trying to rub everyone's nose in your dog's ka ka. We can all take credit for this mess, time to move forward and punish corruption! Can't wait for next week, but those Republicans need to repent and get capitalism, which can finally help those hungry kids in our own country.

BG do you ever stop to smell your own BS? I would have thought you could have seen past the whole "Bush inherited a surplus from Clinton and look what he did" argument. The assumptions and projections the CBO made were ridiculous at the turn of the century. We had a great 90's economy driven by a tremendous amount of innovation in the IT sector which had a profound impact throughout the broader economy. The same apes that tell you, "Well, Obama only wants to go back to Clinton era tax levels, what's wrong with that?" are the same ones who believe that Bush pissed away a golden decade of budget surpluses. Correlation does not imply causation. The argument "We had higher taxes and a stronger economy, therefore we need to raise taxes" is one for economic neophytes. Here's a link with more on the Clinton "surpluses" : http://www.craigsteiner.us/articles/16

BG, I think it's high time for a National Review and/or Weekly Standard subscription. I'd gladly sponsor it. Some good economic reads can be found in their pages.

Oh, and BG, I agree with the aim of this thread. There is quite a bit of deception going on in the political ads. It happens every election and both parties do it. It's up to the voter to understand the issue. "Wall Street" and free trade are being excorciated this election. Heck, to the point where I've pondered how I can dress up as "Wall Street" for Halloween. The Republican gubernatorial candidate in my state worked for Lehman Brothers in our capital and his opponent is laying the blame squarely at his and Lehman's feet for the recession.

[quote=Times7]

Dude, let's talk about the Goldman progressives. You and I sell securites and make a good living.

Except your a troll and have never sold a security

You try to serve two masters: Wall Street and a progressive agenda. I serve Wall Street and the elimination of big government.

See above

No one is saying that we don't need liquidity in the system, but if you are going to sit here and make a living pitching debt while U.S. debt spirals out of control, AND be a hypocrite by blaming this party or that, you're just diverting attention away from the little man behind the curtain.

I'M STANDING DOWN WIND OF THIS, AND IT REALLY DOESN'T SMELL GOOD.

In terms of Goldman, "Bond Guy", you are that little man, with a lot of good friends in the White House and our Congress. And a big bank account full of bonds, I'll bet.

Dude, what's with the hard-on against Goldman? Let me guest they snookered you out of some money because they are smarter than you are?

Oh, and BTW, is this the first Whitehouse to have friends on Wall Street?

The world has changed, and you know it. I was around during the high tech boom of the 90's, you can sit here and talk about the good old days of Clinton ( for whom I voted ) - or you can at least quit trying to appease your guilt on a capitalist forum. Sheeesh. You're trying to rub everyone's nose in your dog's ka ka. We can all take credit for this mess, time to move forward and punish corruption! Can't wait for next week, but those Republicans need to repent and get capitalism, which can finally help those hungry kids in our own country.

Is there anyone you support?

[/quote]

[quote=FA86]

Oh, and BG, I agree with the aim of this thread. There is quite a bit of deception going on in the political ads. It happens every election and both parties do it. It's up to the voter to understand the issue. "Wall Street" and free trade are being excorciated this election. Heck, to the point where I've pondered how I can dress up as "Wall Street" for Halloween. The Republican gubernatorial candidate in my state worked for Lehman Brothers in our capital and his opponent is laying the blame squarely at his and Lehman's feet for the recession.

[/quote]

Dressing as Wall Street for Halloween?

That would be scary!

As for the deception, it's not the run of the mill campaign "tell'em what they want to hear." And, while i agree it is up to the voter to understand the issues, when was the last time that happened?

In this election the repubs running the false ads regarding bailout/stim are in one of two camps. They either don't understand the economic implications of those programs or they do. So, when elected we either get an uniformed boob or a liar .  Show me how we win?

At the same time we get the same party that ran up the bill over the past decade back in controll of one house. Again, The Way We Were.

And, ironically, the repub tea partiers are pointing at the Obama admin chanting Marxist! This while they themselves purposely practice "the end justifies the means" to distort the truth to win office.  They really don't get that, that's what they are doing. Again, people get upset when i call people stupid, but what else could you call it? I do find that aspect entertaining.

In true lib form, your last resort is personal attacks. You are a Goldman progressive and I can understand why you are trying to defend the status quo, because it has treated you very, very well.

You get on here and pick a fight with RRs ( don't need to prove that to you, but I can say I understand how wrap fees run through admin fees and payout grids as well as the next guy, and moving stuff to wrap because 12b1s may go away and you can borrow money from yourself in that VUL after the tenth year at zero interest, long duration bonds are going to get hammered as inflation kicks in from the printing and borrowing, Fed getting ready to put more inflationary cash out there next week by buying our own debt, don't try to assasinate me on cred, dude.)

I'm just pointing out your conflict of interest, and the fact that you call Tea partiers stupid is "laughable".

But not really, you just p*ss me off. Most of America is more like Sarah Palin than your little cozy fake bond world of printing debt and bailing it out. You don't really understand liquidity, and it's time for you to stop being such a tool.

Your game of raising the credibility of those who challenge your status quo is coming to a close, and now the hard work begins. This is not going to be fun for anyone, I think you trivialize the business and mock our profession with attacks on the cred of folks who want to bring in a third viewpoint. I'm going to guess that you're not as smart as you think, or you are just addicted to adrenaline.

You're not even honest with how you feel, you say Tea Partiers are entertaining, but really they threaten you and your world.

I would agree that both sides are acting in a ridiculous fashion, ends justifies the means and such. Seriously, I grew up in the time of hippies and gurus, tell me folks didn't get swept away by this BSer from Chicago. Sellout.

You don't really care, as long as your little pile is protected. Like Bill Gates, you feel guilty and want to distort the economy more with your charity. Don't act like a hypocrite, and attack other people's ideas for change, which really just take us back to good old American capitalism. Party's over, little man behind the curtain.

BG, I agree with you on the bailout/TARP issues. It sells well to call them bailouts for fat cat bankers but either party will use it if they can play it to their advantage. Our federal government is a torpid, sprawling octupus of bureaucracy that, well, is run like a government. I won't say tea partiers or Repubs have all the answers but I like to think that they are the ones with the ideas that will at least attempt at restoring sanity to our budget/entitlement nightmare. A lot of us on the right are pretty serious about sound fiscal policy and are extremely disappointed with Bush and his congress for abandoning the principles of fiscal restraint. Never again is our rallying cry - only time will tell if it holds true.

Dude, what's with the hard-on against Goldman? Let me guest they snookered you out of some money because they are smarter than you are?

This is for the other RRs here: As a small main street shop, I kept money in straight securities the whole time, that's what my clients pay me for, to be smart with their money.

You can allow Goldman to create CDOs and fail, but you can't bail them out. No more friends in the White House. We've always been smarter than that, now we're paying attention. Party's over.

[quote=FA86]

BG, I agree with you on the bailout/TARP issues. It sells well to call them bailouts for fat cat bankers but either party will use it if they can play it to their advantage. Our federal government is a torpid, sprawling octupus of bureaucracy that, well, is run like a government. I won't say tea partiers or Repubs have all the answers but I like to think that they are the ones with the ideas that will at least attempt at restoring sanity to our budget/entitlement nightmare. A lot of us on the right are pretty serious about sound fiscal policy and are extremely disappointed with Bush and his congress for abandoning the principles of fiscal restraint. Never again is our rallying cry - only time will tell if it holds true.

[/quote]

You lost me here.

The tea partiers won't do anything to change a thing. It's not about money, it's about power. Their entire campaign is a sham. Haven't you been paying attention? That's the point of this thread.

That, and a tea partier with an idea? Come'on, you can't be serious. Their central plank is rage, not new ideas.

Hang on man...I'm not saying I march with the tea party but I will say that Angle and O'Donnell aren't representative of everyone running that is associated with the tea party movement. I think you are misreading the tea party and their sympathizers. Based on what I've been able to glean it is a movement predicated on the fact that spending is out of control. Scoff all you want but guys like Paul Ryan and Chris Christie are in fact actually doing something about it. Christie in action and Ryan is trying to start the conversation. I disagree with you on the power grab. Sure the power attracts people but it attracts candidates regardless of political stripe. That said, I want people in positions of power who are at least willing to have a discussion about spending rather than sweep it under the rug.

[quote=Times7]

Dude, what's with the hard-on against Goldman? Let me guest they snookered you out of some money because they are smarter than you are?

This is for the other RRs here: As a small main street shop, I kept money in straight securities the whole time, that's what my clients pay me for, to be smart with their money.

You can allow Goldman to create CDOs and fail, but you can't bail them out. No more friends in the White House. We've always been smarter than that, now we're paying attention. Party's over.

[/quote]

OK poser, like you said, party's over. Care to explain Goldman's need for a CDO induced bailout?

Before you waste your time surfing the web for back up, let me save you the time - you won't find anything. Well, that is, anything factual. I am guessing that there is chapter and verse from the anti wall street TP faction.

I suggest you come back and tell us you don't want to discuss politics. And, in your case add finance to that. Obviously you don't understand  Goldman, the role they played as the mortgage debacle unfolded, or their lack of need of a bailout.  

While you say your clients pay you to be smart with their money how can you do that if you don't understand the cause of the greatest market crash in modern history? You blame Goldman?

Ok, i'll be nice and say that you are either uniformed or misinformed. Question is -Why?