[quote=lovindaindy]

Jennifer, it's economics 101.

When government expenditures change, so does real GDP, which changes consumption expenditures.  Let's go back to the military example.    Military contractors are benefiting from increased business when spending because of increased military expenditures.  Workers in these industries spend more, in turn, multiplying the impact of increased government military spending.

The multiplier's size depends on the marginal propensity to consume.

MPC =  Additional consumption/Additional income

[/quote]

understand

RELATIVE to private sector?

thati is my (and supply side) case.

that lame govt spending crowds out dynamic, wealth creating private spending.

FDX, UPS vs the gd post office

AAPL vs HUD

VMW vs FEMA

CSX,BNI vs amtrack

Are you talking about crowding out of private investment?

Supply-side in that case is usually referring to deficits.  Crowding out occurs because the real interest rate is affected by the deficit.  In which case, investors choose to invest in govies and not corporates.  For sure the private sector is ultimately the producer of goods and services, while the government is designed to consume.

I do agree that governments competing with business are crap. 

I think the biggest issues is where is the line between public and private goods.  A lot of disagreements here on that.  For sure, BG would say (and most non-conservatives - I know you don't want anybody to pigeon-hole you, like you are doing to others) that healthcare is a public good, and should thus be funded by taxpayers.

What Tea Partiers are saying, is that the government being in the banking business is not a public good.  Both Republicans and Democrats would disagree.

In this instance, I agree with Tea Partiers, but also agree that the bailouts were necessary.

So, if they were billed as a risky investment (which is really all it was), then I'm ok with it.

I have said from the beginning that ultimately the government will make money off of TARP (which will not be returned to taxpayers, but will be funneled into more government programs that do not benefit the public as a whole).

[quote=Jennifer Nettles]

why dont you tell me the great successes of govt?      hell, how about one?

[/quote]

One success?

You are free to spew your misguided hate.

That actually wasn't a government success.  That was a revolutionary success.  That revolution that was the result of an oppressive government.  Similar to what we've experienced the last forty years or so.

Judge people's judgement; don't judge their intention. That's all I have to say. There's an interesting debate going on here in between all the insistent name calling, abuse of the english language, and **** swinging.

Bondguy, you're better than this. Let them get the attention they desperately seek elsewhere.

Dad, do I have to come home now? I was having so much fun!

Ana, point well taken !

[quote=anabuhabkuss]

Judge people's judgement; don't judge their intention. That's all I have to say. There's an interesting debate going on here in between all the insistent name calling, abuse of the english language, and **** swinging.

Bondguy, you're better than this. Let them get the attention they desperately seek elsewhere.

[/quote]

blwo me fukc face.  liberals sukc

intention this

bonds peeps.   well oiled machine FBI breaks up alleged plot to defraud Medicare of $100m

Operation carried out by Armenian-American gangsters was largest ever to steal from Medicare, say authorities

Armenian-American gangsters created a fictitious medical world, complete with fake doctors and fake patients, which they extended across the US in a scheme to defraud the Medicare system of more than $100m (£62.9m), federal prosecutors said yesterday.

The FBI and other authorities claimed to have broken up the largest organised criminal operation to steal from Medicare since the system of healthcare support for elderly and disabled Americans was founded in 1965.

Charges were brought against 73 people, mainly from New York and Los Angeles but also from New Mexico, Georgia and Ohio.

The scam, which succeeded in stealing $35m from Medicare, having billed the system more than $100m, was the brainchild of the alleged ringleader of the gang, Armen Kazarian. Legal documents produced by the grand jury that issued the charges said Kazarian also travelled under aliases of Pzo and Qerop. He described himself as a "Vor", meaning "thief-in-law", an Armenian equivalent of a criminal godfather.

Kazarian is alleged to have been a "substantial influence in the criminal underworld" while he was living in Azerbaijan under the Soviet Union. After the fall of communism, he emigrated to the US, bringing his criminal contacts and practices with him.

He is accused of having established a criminal web known as the Mirzoyan-Terdjanian Organisation while keeping its ties open to Armenia.

The two alleged leaders of the gang, alongside Kazarian, were based in New York and Los Angeles.

The gang ran a range of illegal activities, prosecutors say, including contraband, immigration fraud, identity theft, bank fraud and money laundering. But the most elaborate part of the operation was the vast swindling of Medicare.

The gang constructed a parallel universe that was entirely make-believe but which mirrored the structure of the real Medicare system. To begin with they stole the identities – including the dates of birth, social security numbers and medical licence details – of dozens of doctors.

They then set up 118 phantom health clinics in 25 states across the country, and applied for permission to treat patients under the terms of Medicare, a scheme to support over 65-year-olds and certain categories of disabled people.

Once accepted on to the programme, the fraudsters began billing for treatments such as ear, nose and throat procedures, skin allergies and bladder tests on behalf of 2,900 patients whose identities they had also stolen. The more than $35m that was already paid out by Medicare before the arrests were made went to bank accounts set up under false identities.

The money would be withdrawn in cash and couriered to contacts in Armenia for disposal.