Tenth, that you call my calling out the right for what it is "self absorbtion and feeling sorry for ourselves" shows just how you deal with the heartless policies of those you chose to support. Not to mention cold, I mean really cold!

Yeah, tenth, let's not feel sorry for the poor person. That way we can turn our back and walk away. The good news is it doesn't cost a dime! Like i said, heartless!

"Bond Guy", I am sure everyone respects you as a person and no one here wants to change who you are.

If you ever grow up emotionally and live in the big boy house, you will understand. I can't say what would cause that.

In the mean time, my observation about you is that you come across as being passive aggressive in how you debate most issues. You cross a line that involves respect the dignity of others.  Where does that come from?  But I thank you for what I have learned here from you, it gives me new perspective on progressives.

[quote=BondGuy]

[quote=N.D.]

BondGuy, your generalization is nauseating and I am appalled that you are part of the this industry. I surely hope you do not tell your clients the way you feel about them, of course assuming your clients are wealthy.

The best advice I can give you is to quit pointing your finger at every one else and take responsibility for yourself and whatever ideology you represent. We all are the problem and we all are the solution but we must take individual accountability for each decision we make and that is the core difference between the right and the left.

You wake up each morning and decide to go to work others do not. "Bankers" wake up each morning and decide to make their company as profitable as they can others decide to operate non-profits. No one is forced to work so there is not a problem if someone decides not to. No one is forced to buy products from bankers so there is not a problem if someone decides not to.

Everyone needs to take accountability for their own actions and quit blaming others. This is life and there are winners and losers, good people and bad, educated and uneducated. Just the way it is. I find your attack on the right as offensive as the right's attack on the left.

[/quote]

That you believe that poor people have choices shows either a quaint naivete or a very narrow band of knowledge. Either way, you are a clueless rich boy! You speak of individual accountablity when you have no idea what that means.

 You are so worried about one freeloader getting over on you that you deny help to 100 working poor who need a hand up. But, not to worry, your banker friends will be there to help.

Of course you find my summation of the right offensive.  Tell me, of all the points I raised, are any untrue?

I assure they are all true. You are disgusted by the truth of what the right has done. You chose to attack my comments and classify them as generalizations. You do so because, that puts it in a place you can live with.[/quote]

But for whatever reason, I am going to try...

With every post you produce a more clear picture of what truly causes the bottleneck of progress this country suffers from. If you could see me now, you would see a man holding his head down in shame because of the thought that I share the same responsibility to the people that put food on my table and clothes on my back as you do but apparently I thank them while you talk about them like a dog behind their back.

I doubt it would be stretch for me to say that I come from one of the lowest of economic classes in this country. My parents lived pay check to pay check my entire life. However, I am fortunate to be in this country and that it provides me an avenue to better myself ,all though my family choose to not follow me and God knows I tried my best to help my brother. I am the first child in my family to attend college not to mention I graduated cum laude while working a full time job. I can remember writing papers until 3 a.m. with pictures of my childhood home above my desk (which the desk was a $20 purchase from Goodwill) for motivation. I have worked very hard to get to where I am today and it is NOWHERE near rich. Not even by Obama's definition of rich. But I DO have the option NOW thanks to all my hard work and doing without earlier in life to earn an income that is considered obscene to many.

"I Am A Child"

I am a child, I'll last a while.
You can't conceive
of the pleasure in my smile.
You hold my hand,
rough up my hair,
It's lots of fun
to have you there.

God gave to you,
now, you give to me,
I'd like to know
what you learned.
The sky is blue
and so is the sea.
What is the color,
when black is burned?
What is the color?

You are a man, you understand.
You pick me up
and you lay me down again.
You make the rules,
you say what's fair,
It's lots of fun
to have you there.

God gave to you,
now, you give to me,
I'd like to know
what you learned.
The sky is blue
and so is the sea.
What is the color,
when black is burned?
What is the color?

I am a child, I'll last a while.
You can't conceive
of the pleasure in my smile.

Neil Young

BG, life is so painful and so beautiful it hurts. I rejoice and weep for us all.

With every post you produce a more clear picture of what truly causes the bottleneck of progress this country suffers from.

What I learned living in Asia is this: America is a legalistic society. Western thought separates emotion and logic.

I tried to post some research here economic emotional intelligence game theory. Didn't work, but I'll make a prediction:

History will look back on Western liberals and see them as having highly developed logic, education, social dependency, reasoning powers, and so on - and very little commmon sense.

Emotional basket cases. Bond Guy, what you really seek is poverty. It would be good for you. You have been waiting for someone to tell you what you already know.

http://www.allacademic.com//meta/p_mla_apa_research_citation/3/6/3/3/3/pages363330/p363330-42.php

[quote=tenthtee]"Bond Guy", I am sure everyone respects you as a person and no one here wants to change who you are.

If you ever grow up emotionally and live in the big boy house, you will understand. I can't say what would cause that.

In the mean time, my observation about you is that you come across as being passive aggressive in how you debate most issues. You cross a line that involves respect the dignity of others.  Where does that come from?  But I thank you for what I have learned here from you, it gives me new perspective on progressives. [/quote]

I don't. I respect his right to an opinion but I do not respect him or his opinion. He is either a liar, hypocrite or just fukin with us. There is no way he can have these views and then look his clients in the face while providing true unbiased advice. BondGuy either lies to us, his clients or himself. There is no way he built a practice with out building it for wealthy people and understanding how wealth is built.

Wealth is built by innovation, imitation or exploitation. To categorize all wealthy people in the last group is absurd. I will even go a step further and say to categorize all white, wealthy, conservative, Christians in the last group is also absurd.

Yeah, I was just trying to be nice.

Bond Guy strikes me as a wealthy guy who feels guilty and is worried about losing his wealth. At least, he is bored and has never experienced real poverty.

I have NEVER heard someone who came from impoverishment or who is living in poverty talk like him (while taking $$$ for being a " bond guy" and bragging about his motorcycles and boats and such).

There are emotionally immature people everyone, but I am beginning to understand that Obama is emotionally  immature, and he represents an entire generation of finger pointing "progressives" who feel comfortable doing WHATEVER IT TAKES to impose their strange ideology on the masses.

Now I can put my finger on what has been scaring and depressing me. We are being governed by children ( and I'm not singling out any political party).

Time for the adults to take back the big houses, and the discussion forums.

Debating with children makes me feel kind of weird. I'm done with it.

I point out the ugly policies of the right and their elected representatives and the two of you start calling me names. Guys, and that's an assumption on my part, that you re both male, grow some skin. If you can't handle what the people you've elected are doing to the poor people in this country, well then, change your vote.

By the way, most of my clients know where i stand and have no problem with it. Thus the constant bombardment with repub/right wing emails cartoons etc.  Turns out, adults can discuss these things and agree to disagree.

I do not mind discussing anything with anyone. I actually enjoy most discussions, especially when there is a chance someone can gain a better understanding of the topic being discussed. But with your blind generalization and unsubstantiated accusations in your posts, I cannot see a way for this to happen. Therefore I will call a spade a spade until you show me otherwise. 

Also after reading this thread again, I must say there is no way you are serious... There is no freakin way you tell your clients what you have said in this thread.

A couple questions for you, how can you offer clients appropriate investment opportunities without adding debt instruments from for-profit corporations? Do you tell your clients "no sir, I cannot sell you that Big Mean Company's bond because they only work their employees 38 hours a week so they can avoid paying them full time benefits" or do you go home at night and struggle looking at yourself in the mirror because you profited from selling the fat-cats debts so they can raise money to build another 10 stores this year to do more of the same to the poor?

Do you refuse to sell the automakers debt because they keep building plants overseas? Do you refuse to sell bonds from financial companies because as you said they are raping the poor for 30%? What do you sell your clients?

Fingerpointing happens on both sides of the isle. That was the point of my previous post. Fingers point at different areas, but they point just the same.

[quote=N.D.]

I do not mind discussing anything with anyone. I actually enjoy most discussions, especially when there is a chance someone can gain a better understanding of the topic being discussed. But with your blind generalization and unsubstantiated accusations in your posts, I cannot see a way for this to happen. Therefore I will call a spade a spade until you show me otherwise. 

Also after reading this thread again, I must say there is no way you are serious... There is no freakin way you tell your clients what you have said in this thread.

A couple questions for you, how can you offer clients appropriate investment opportunities without adding debt instruments from for-profit corporations? Do you tell your clients "no sir, I cannot sell you that Big Mean Company's bond because they only work their employees 38 hours a week so they can avoid paying them full time benefits" or do you go home at night and struggle looking at yourself in the mirror because you profited from selling the fat-cats debts so they can raise money to build another 10 stores this year to do more of the same to the poor?

Do you refuse to sell the automakers debt because they keep building plants overseas? Do you refuse to sell bonds from financial companies because as you said they are raping the poor for 30%? What do you sell your clients?

[/quote]

ND, you are way over the top here. You've taken my statements to the extreme. The are no blind generazations here. Nor unsubstantiated accusations. I post the truth and you call it an attack. If there is something you believe to untrue, by all means, tell me.

In the end, it's really simple, the dems are party of the people, and the repubs are the party of money. You are for one or the other. It isn't dems standing in the way of helping people. An example that's the subject of heated debate, health care: a woman feels a lump in her breast. She has no insurance so she goes to the free clinic to get it checked out. it takes almost a month to finally have a doctor check it out and the news is grim, cancer. The doc gives her info on programs that treat the poor. She's in luck because the state has appointed a hospital for cases just like hers. Unfortunately for her she can't get anyone at the hospital to help her. They stonewall her, tell her she has bad information. remember what i said about the poor having no choices? The stonewalling works with most poor because they don't have the resources to fight. She is turned away to face a certain death.

With the health care bill this woman has as much chance of survival as any woman in your family or mine. She will get treatment. Without it, she will die. Why? Because of money? Exactly! So, on this one issue, here is the way i see it: if i can pay taxes to support a 3 trillion dollasr wasted effort war, I can certainly afford to pay one trillion dollars to make sure that no one who is a citizen of the greatest country on the planet dies because they don't have access to adequet health care.

So  again, it is that simple, you are either for people or you are for money. That's your choice. The rest of it is just noise, spin to cover up the fact that regarding the health care bill being for money is a death sentence for a large number of people.

No you are wrong. It is not an either/or choice. But that is what you are making it seem to be. You know what you have said and unless you go back and edit your posts so will everyone else here.

I asked you several questions none of which were about the current health care program. The only thing I can guess is you live in make-believe land filled with cotton candy and warm furry bunnies, so in a way I guess I have my answers.

I will ask you another question. The average income for a person in the US is 50k per year. Do you donate all your income over this amount to charity? Do you deserve more income than the average person? Do you put your money were your mouth is or do you buy more of these...

[quote=BondGuy]Toyz?

We got some:

Country Coach Allure 40 - we're not campers. We use Homer to further other pursuits.

Boston Whaler Dauntless 18 "Pole Dancer"- Sold, sale closes next week. Fun but we're done.

Hobie 16 - Bought new in 1986 and raced extensively. The last of the sail boat fleet.

Honda Reflex Scooter- a fun daily commuter bike.

R56 Mini Cooper S - Also on the block to sell. Hey, those front tires were fine when I bought it! A fun year, i'm bored, time to move on.

Current  Designs Solstice GT HV kevlar sea kayak - OK, the the kayak rides on top of the Grand Cherokee which is flat towed behind Homer. Nova Scotia to Key West, we've covered a lot of ground and a lot of water once we got there.

Current Designs Scirocco poly sea kayak - see above

Dagger Baja sea kayak - same

Bell Merlin 2 Carb/kev canoe- it's 15 ft long and weighs 30lbs. easy to lift.

Dagger Reflection 15 Royalex - It's 15 ft long and weighs 50lbs. Not so easy to lift.

Mad River Explorer royalex- 16 ft, 70 lbs, of rock bashing long haul trucker canoe.

Lemond Zurich road bike - Spine design CF/steel, easy riding century machine.

Trek 520 touring bike - The Chevy Suburban of touring bikes. I use mine for LD riding and fitness.

Trek 950 hardtail mountain bike - It's 20 years old and starting to show some wear. Still I' ve put about 100 hours on this bike ytd. (I measure off road use by time) it's my rain/snow bike as well.
 
Martin Accoustic Guitar - it's a lefty D15, and it's for sale.
 
DLG RC Gliders - fun but what a learning curve.
 
I'm getting into surf fishing so I'm gearing up for that. And another pursuit in which Homer increases the possibilities with treking between Hatteras and Montauk. Pull into Camp Hatteras, Fish, bike, kite, kayak, and do some RC ridge riding on the dunes. Or, sit and relax on the beach. Nah, sitin is time wastin.[/quote]
What about that boat you were going to buy this past summer? Did you change your mind and donate all that sinful money to your local VA hospital?
You may be fighting a just cause but I sure am finding it hard to believe. Good luck with you and your side since according to you, we must pick a side.

Democrats are not the party of the people.  How do you figure that?

Democrats are the party of a beneficial society.  Republicans are the party of personal responsibility.  We need both.

They are not mutually exlusive.

I take exception to your take on the wars being wasteful.  As a veteran of those wars, I can tell you that more good was done than evil and that the protections of the citizens of this country actually occurred because we had those wars.

Unless you have seen with your own eyes, you are only guessing and using what the media tells you (it's not as wonderful as FoxNews makes it out to be, but neither is it as horrible and UNNECESSARY as MSNBC makes it out to be). 

Jean Luc Picard?

Neil Young?

wow.  i like it

greatest show ever in the history of TV.  

gene rodenberry and rick berman are 2 guys i'd love to have a beer with-so creative.

"sleep data..........."

"jean Luc is tired"

"no...wait.......its a message about the Borg'

classic   

neil quotes?

neil had a brain tumor.     when asked about it he said

"I have something on my mind"

Neil is the man

[quote=N.D.]

What about that boat you were going to buy this past summer? Did you change your mind and donate all that sinful money to your local VA hospital?

[/quote]

funny.   local VA hospital

Gates, soros and bond trying to get to heaven.

gates and soros because they fukced so many people in their lives.........

On this thread i came out strongly because the TP movement is, IMO, so wrongheaded. It's anger is what's wrong with this country today. I must get a dozen teap arty supporrer emails a day. All balasting obama or the dems. And every single one of them factually incorrect. Everyone of them!!!!! Yet, the senders of the emails take them as fact. Not to mention highly racist. Which of course, is the under story here. Many are pissed off that a black man is in the oval office.

above is a bond quote.

ok  bond.  

i think owebama and his gang beleive that govt can make things better.  that govt is the answer in so many different areas

history has told us time after thime that is this IS NOT TRUE

free markets create wealth, not govt.

tell me how how the above 3 statements are incorrect , in your opionion?

i am not racist at all.   we all freakin equal.   all just doing the best we can.

[quote=tenthtee]

Nettles u be one bad mother.

[/quote]

im not jennifer

Jennifer Nettles is a country singer for band sugarland.

I have the hots for her.   

She is not that hot but she flips my skirt.

She might even be on the wrong team.  (whcih is ok, i could get her over to our side)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IUElqcOupAc

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5iDPw_qjhtM&ob=av3e

[quote=Jennifer Nettles]

On this thread i came out strongly because the TP movement is, IMO, so wrongheaded. It's anger is what's wrong with this country today. I must get a dozen teap arty supporrer emails a day. All balasting obama or the dems. And every single one of them factually incorrect. Everyone of them!!!!! Yet, the senders of the emails take them as fact. Not to mention highly racist. Which of course, is the under story here. Many are pissed off that a black man is in the oval office.

above is a bond quote.

ok  bond.  

i think owebama and his gang beleive that govt can make things better.  that govt is the answer in so many different areas

history has told us time after thime that is this IS NOT TRUE

free markets create wealth, not govt.

tell me how how the above 3 statements are incorrect , in your opionion?

i am not racist at all.   we all freakin equal.   all just doing the best we can.

[/quote]

I agree with you on the free markets, and to a point about govt not working. I take exception with your opinion of Obama. Obama is well intentioned. To tell the truth he's been dealt a tough hand. In admins past the prez has been able to come to consensus with the opposing party for the good of the nation. Not so these days! The repubs stand as a rock in the road regardless of the human cost. They've, in my opinion, absolutely polarized the country. Everything is pitched from the extremes, there is no middle ground. Of course this makes progress all but impossible and it lets the repubs stand and frame our current condition as failure, Obama as a failure. This is why i said you and others were stupid to buy into the TP's messege. That message is part of bought and paid for strategy to put repubs back in office. The RNC ,through the TP, is cashing in on voters misdirected anger and misleading them further. Question that? Do you or anyone else here honestly beleive, economically,  we'd be in a different place  today if repubs were in control? If you do, as the saying goes I've got a bridge to sell you. That we wouldn't be in a different place proves the vitrol coming from the TP and RNC is bullshit. Yet, you are all-in.

AS for govt not working? Did you get your mail today? is you trash collected? If you call the police, do they answer the phone? Did your elderly aunt get her SS check today? Does medicaid pay for her healthcare? Would our military not answer the call to arms?

Government works. The entitlement programs aren't bankrupt because they are bad programs or are poorly adminstered. They are broke because every senator and congressman elected in the past 40 years has used them as a personal pork piggy bank. Equal blame. Yet the repubs point their bacon stained fingers at the dems while demanding fiscal responsibility. Make no mistake, the dems share equal blame, but do you not see the duplicity in this?  

As well, that your ATM card works today, you can thank the governement. The bailouts, you remember them, the TP's rallying cry? As disgusting as it was to give all that dough to the stupid people who helped create the problem, the program was a success, it saved our butts.

The post office is poorly run. Both parties share blame. Still, my mail comes everyday. Butttttttt!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

So, mostly, government does work.

My question for you: Regarding the woman with breast cancer who is refused treatment because she has no insurance, if we repeal healthcare, and she dies for lack of treatment, who's fault is that?

[quote=N.D.]

No you are wrong. It is not an either/or choice. But that is what you are making it seem to be. You know what you have said and unless you go back and edit your posts so will everyone else here.

I asked you several questions none of which were about the current health care program. The only thing I can guess is you live in make-believe land filled with cotton candy and warm furry bunnies, so in a way I guess I have my answers.

I will ask you another question. The average income for a person in the US is 50k per year. Do you donate all your income over this amount to charity? Do you deserve more income than the average person? Do you put your money were your mouth is or do you buy more of these...

[quote=BondGuy]Toyz?

We got some:

Country Coach Allure 40 - we're not campers. We use Homer to further other pursuits.

Boston Whaler Dauntless 18 "Pole Dancer"- Sold, sale closes next week. Fun but we're done.

Hobie 16 - Bought new in 1986 and raced extensively. The last of the sail boat fleet.

Honda Reflex Scooter- a fun daily commuter bike.

R56 Mini Cooper S - Also on the block to sell. Hey, those front tires were fine when I bought it! A fun year, i'm bored, time to move on.

Current  Designs Solstice GT HV kevlar sea kayak - OK, the the kayak rides on top of the Grand Cherokee which is flat towed behind Homer. Nova Scotia to Key West, we've covered a lot of ground and a lot of water once we got there.

Current Designs Scirocco poly sea kayak - see above

Dagger Baja sea kayak - same

Bell Merlin 2 Carb/kev canoe- it's 15 ft long and weighs 30lbs. easy to lift.

Dagger Reflection 15 Royalex - It's 15 ft long and weighs 50lbs. Not so easy to lift.

Mad River Explorer royalex- 16 ft, 70 lbs, of rock bashing long haul trucker canoe.

Lemond Zurich road bike - Spine design CF/steel, easy riding century machine.

Trek 520 touring bike - The Chevy Suburban of touring bikes. I use mine for LD riding and fitness.

Trek 950 hardtail mountain bike - It's 20 years old and starting to show some wear. Still I' ve put about 100 hours on this bike ytd. (I measure off road use by time) it's my rain/snow bike as well.
 
Martin Accoustic Guitar - it's a lefty D15, and it's for sale.
 
DLG RC Gliders - fun but what a learning curve.
 
I'm getting into surf fishing so I'm gearing up for that. And another pursuit in which Homer increases the possibilities with treking between Hatteras and Montauk. Pull into Camp Hatteras, Fish, bike, kite, kayak, and do some RC ridge riding on the dunes. Or, sit and relax on the beach. Nah, sitin is time wastin.[/quote]
What about that boat you were going to buy this past summer? Did you change your mind and donate all that sinful money to your local VA hospital?
You may be fighting a just cause but I sure am finding it hard to believe. Good luck with you and your side since according to you, we must pick a side.

[/quote]

Wow, your short and curlies are really twisted in a knot!  I'll listen, tell me what i said about the repubs, christians etc that is not true. Set me straight!

[quote=lovindaindy]

Democrats are not the party of the people.  How do you figure that?

Democrats are the party of a beneficial society.  Republicans are the party of personal responsibility.  We need both.

They are not mutually exlusive.

I take exception to your take on the wars being wasteful.  As a veteran of those wars, I can tell you that more good was done than evil and that the protections of the citizens of this country actually occurred because we had those wars.

Unless you have seen with your own eyes, you are only guessing and using what the media tells you (it's not as wonderful as FoxNews makes it out to be, but neither is it as horrible and UNNECESSARY as MSNBC makes it out to be). 

[/quote]

Lowest common denominator - repubs = money  and dems = people.

Right now we are polarized.

As for the war, no question the media wisted things to their POV. That's not the issue. The issue is, why were we there? Lot of blood spilled and money spent. For what?