Text Book Head and Shoulders Pattern
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So you believe you can get people in and out of the market at the right times each and every year ? And you charge people only 2% ?
No. It’s not “the market”. It’s individual positions. It’s called if I buy a stock $6 a share, I am going to sell it at $15 (if that’s the price target) no matter what. There is no, “well, I hope it will go higher”. You then look for another opportunity. I had a client that at the time was unhappy with a sell we made. He thought, “it will probably go higher”. And it did.
It’s called if a stock we choose drops below a certain percentage, we sell it. No questions asked. But the key is to look for buying opportunities.
Then trade for your own account and keep all the profits. Why do it for someone else and only take 2%? That just doesn’t make sense. Why deal with clients and all of that crap ? Keep it all.
Why do anything? First of all, I have said a few times already on these boards that I’m done dealing with clients.
If I pay someone else to deal with clients, wouldn’t it stand to reason I’d make more money? The more assets, the more money.
And, it’s about more than money. Not because I’m bored, just because I feel there is a better way. Maybe it’s an experiment. Maybe it’s a huge study that I can use for my Ph.D. dissertation. Does it really matter why? We all have our motives, right?
I have said the same to Gaddock. If you can make money trading the market it is only logical to do it for yourself. Less expenses, less hassle, less overhead, less legal issues, more money.
I have said the same to Gaddock. If you can make money trading the market it is only logical to do it for yourself. Less expenses, less hassle, less overhead, less legal issues, more money.
I hear you. It's not about the money. It's about attempting to carve out a new path in an industry that is institutionalized.
[quote=Ron 14] I have said the same to Gaddock. If you can make money trading the market it is only logical to do it for yourself. Less expenses, less hassle, less overhead, less legal issues, more money.
I hear you. It's not about the money. It's about attempting to carve out a new path in an industry that is institutionalized. [/quote]
...or, it's about lying through your teeth. Since none of your results are published anywhere, I think I'll go with the latter.
Yep. Or I’m a liar.
I’ll send you an invite to my dissertation defense, and you can ask any questions you wish. And pore through the research.
I don't worship fund managers. What they have that most of us don't is the time and resources to do the research on the economy and the companies involved. Yes a mutual fund company is trying to make money. If they could time the market, trade more, beat the returns of every other fund manager wouldnt they do it ?? If they were crushing the other funds every year and getting in and out like you guys claim they would have huge inflows, thus increasing profits and allowing them to raise their fees. With your reasoning buy and hold is costing them money, which proves your reasoning is wrong. NOBODY CAN CONSISTENTLY TIME THE MARKET. Even if you caught a few swings accurately clients will expect that year after year. The first time you miss, they are gone, looking for the next tool who thinks they can time the market. [/quote] Ron, do you know why American Funds (since they are the biggest) were considered very average during the 90's? Considered one of the best from 2000-07? Got hit just as hard during this bear? It isn't about timing the market, it is about understanding the market which you obviously don't. Keep blaming things you don't understand on "market timing" and discounting the skill of Financial Professionals if this helps you sleep at night. Remember, just because you are unable to do something does not mean that others cannot also.[quote=Moraen]Ron, I would pay a higher expense for that kind of management. Problem is, most of the time it doesn’t exist.
Ron, why do you worship fund managers? Just because they work somewhere with a name on it, does that mean they are geniuses? Are they smarter than me because I went to a state school to get my MBA (which is in the top 25 btw)? Are they smarter than me because I started my CFA later than them?
I’m not saying I’m smarter, I’m just saying that mutual funds are designed to make the mutual fund company money. Pay a fee, stay in for a while, sign this switch letter b/c FT bought you a better dinner. Then back to American Funds b/c FT isn’t working or the Alliance Bernstein chick is hot.
In addition, mutual funds are designed to make people mediocre returns. My clients are up quite a bit for the year and in some cases didn’t lose any account value during the downturn. 3% to them would be a small price to pay for that kind of return.
Morean,
I have no questions other than to see detailed reports of all your trading results, short, intermediate and long-term.
If you think constructing a dissertation on market timing, trading, financial planning or investing means anything in this business, then you’re definitely lying.
I don't worship fund managers. What they have that most of us don't is the time and resources to do the research on the economy and the companies involved. Yes a mutual fund company is trying to make money. If they could time the market, trade more, beat the returns of every other fund manager wouldnt they do it ?? If they were crushing the other funds every year and getting in and out like you guys claim they would have huge inflows, thus increasing profits and allowing them to raise their fees. With your reasoning buy and hold is costing them money, which proves your reasoning is wrong. NOBODY CAN CONSISTENTLY TIME THE MARKET. Even if you caught a few swings accurately clients will expect that year after year. The first time you miss, they are gone, looking for the next tool who thinks they can time the market. [/quote] Ron, do you know why American Funds (since they are the biggest) were considered very average during the 90's? Considered one of the best from 2000-07? Got hit just as hard during this bear? It isn't about timing the market, it is about understanding the market which you obviously don't. Keep blaming things you don't understand on "market timing" and discounting the skill of Financial Professionals if this helps you sleep at night. Remember, just because you are unable to do something does not mean that others cannot also.[/quote] It is not about just American Funds. I am talking about any fund family. Did any avoid what happened last year ? Do any of them make massive allocation swings that at all reflect entering and exiting the overall market ? Jeb, are you actually saying you can exit and enter the market successfully year after year after year?[quote=Ron 14][quote=Moraen]Ron, I would pay a higher expense for that kind of management. Problem is, most of the time it doesn’t exist.
Ron, why do you worship fund managers? Just because they work somewhere with a name on it, does that mean they are geniuses? Are they smarter than me because I went to a state school to get my MBA (which is in the top 25 btw)? Are they smarter than me because I started my CFA later than them?
I’m not saying I’m smarter, I’m just saying that mutual funds are designed to make the mutual fund company money. Pay a fee, stay in for a while, sign this switch letter b/c FT bought you a better dinner. Then back to American Funds b/c FT isn’t working or the Alliance Bernstein chick is hot.
In addition, mutual funds are designed to make people mediocre returns. My clients are up quite a bit for the year and in some cases didn’t lose any account value during the downturn. 3% to them would be a small price to pay for that kind of return.
Plenty of “wizards” were selling August 950 calls in the S&P to “protect” long positions that they recently acquired because the market was going to stay in a “range.” How is that working for them ?
I don't worship fund managers. What they have that most of us don't is the time and resources to do the research on the economy and the companies involved. Yes a mutual fund company is trying to make money. If they could time the market, trade more, beat the returns of every other fund manager wouldnt they do it ?? If they were crushing the other funds every year and getting in and out like you guys claim they would have huge inflows, thus increasing profits and allowing them to raise their fees. With your reasoning buy and hold is costing them money, which proves your reasoning is wrong. NOBODY CAN CONSISTENTLY TIME THE MARKET. Even if you caught a few swings accurately clients will expect that year after year. The first time you miss, they are gone, looking for the next tool who thinks they can time the market. [/quote] Ron, do you know why American Funds (since they are the biggest) were considered very average during the 90's? Considered one of the best from 2000-07? Got hit just as hard during this bear? It isn't about timing the market, it is about understanding the market which you obviously don't. Keep blaming things you don't understand on "market timing" and discounting the skill of Financial Professionals if this helps you sleep at night. Remember, just because you are unable to do something does not mean that others cannot also.[/quote] It is not about just American Funds. I am talking about any fund family. Did any avoid what happened last year ? Do any of them make massive allocation swings that at all reflect entering and exiting the overall market ? Jeb, are you actually saying you can exit and enter the market successfully year after year after year?[/quote] American Funds was the example. You could use the same example with Franklin. You could use a different example with Ja*** or AIM. You didn't answer my question, you posed your own question and then answered it poorly.[quote=Jebediah][quote=Ron 14][quote=Moraen]Ron, I would pay a higher expense for that kind of management. Problem is, most of the time it doesn’t exist.
Ron, why do you worship fund managers? Just because they work somewhere with a name on it, does that mean they are geniuses? Are they smarter than me because I went to a state school to get my MBA (which is in the top 25 btw)? Are they smarter than me because I started my CFA later than them?
I’m not saying I’m smarter, I’m just saying that mutual funds are designed to make the mutual fund company money. Pay a fee, stay in for a while, sign this switch letter b/c FT bought you a better dinner. Then back to American Funds b/c FT isn’t working or the Alliance Bernstein chick is hot.
In addition, mutual funds are designed to make people mediocre returns. My clients are up quite a bit for the year and in some cases didn’t lose any account value during the downturn. 3% to them would be a small price to pay for that kind of return.
There are tons of examples. John simons, George Soros, Jim Rogers…
The problem with mutual funds is that they are limited by prospectus as someone mentioned earlier. Plus they would have to disclose what they do and that would allow anyone to copy it.Just look at this thread closely. It was begun by one of these “Simons, Soror, Rogers”-esque market-timimg wizards (hahahahahahaaaa!!!). How did that head and shoulders collapse work out for his clients? I rest my case.
You are kidding right… James Simons Medallion fund has averaged 35%/year since 1989. with 5% up front and 36% of profits fee…
For the 11 years ending in December 1999, Medallion’s cumulative returns were 2,478.6 percent. Among all offshore funds over that same period, according to the database run by veteran hedge fund observer Antoine Bernheim, the next-best performer was Soros Quantum fund, with a 1,710.1 percent return How do fund managers compare with that... The idea behind mutual funds was created for people who didn't have enough to build an equity portfolio. That is still the premise today. Active or Index funds cater to those who don't have the assets to do other things. The goal of the mutual fund manager is not to beat the market or decrease risk.. instead they are buying by prospectus a group of stocks so clients who couldn't afford to buy those stocks on their own can invest.[quote=YHWY] Morean, I have no questions other than to see detailed reports of all your trading results, short, intermediate and long-term. If you think constructing a dissertation on market timing, trading, financial planning or investing means anything in this business, then you’re definitely lying.
[/quote]
Sure. Send me your work email address.
[quote=YHWY] Morean, I have no questions other than to see detailed reports of all your trading results, short, intermediate and long-term. If you think constructing a dissertation on market timing, trading, financial planning or investing means anything in this business, then you’re definitely lying.
[/quote]
Are you serious? Constructing a dissertation has no meaning in this business? Your whole investment philosophy was taken from someone who conducted studies that were published (dissertations are often published in parts in different subject areas as specific studies). It just so happens you believe what someone else tells you rather than asking the questions yourself.
I don't worship fund managers. What they have that most of us don't is the time and resources to do the research on the economy and the companies involved. Yes a mutual fund company is trying to make money. If they could time the market, trade more, beat the returns of every other fund manager wouldnt they do it ?? If they were crushing the other funds every year and getting in and out like you guys claim they would have huge inflows, thus increasing profits and allowing them to raise their fees. With your reasoning buy and hold is costing them money, which proves your reasoning is wrong. NOBODY CAN CONSISTENTLY TIME THE MARKET. Even if you caught a few swings accurately clients will expect that year after year. The first time you miss, they are gone, looking for the next tool who thinks they can time the market. [/quote] Ron, do you know why American Funds (since they are the biggest) were considered very average during the 90's? Considered one of the best from 2000-07? Got hit just as hard during this bear? It isn't about timing the market, it is about understanding the market which you obviously don't. Keep blaming things you don't understand on "market timing" and discounting the skill of Financial Professionals if this helps you sleep at night. Remember, just because you are unable to do something does not mean that others cannot also.[/quote] I take the lack of a response to show you cannot answer any on my questions. Not surprising.[quote=Ron 14][quote=Moraen]Ron, I would pay a higher expense for that kind of management. Problem is, most of the time it doesn’t exist.
Ron, why do you worship fund managers? Just because they work somewhere with a name on it, does that mean they are geniuses? Are they smarter than me because I went to a state school to get my MBA (which is in the top 25 btw)? Are they smarter than me because I started my CFA later than them?
I’m not saying I’m smarter, I’m just saying that mutual funds are designed to make the mutual fund company money. Pay a fee, stay in for a while, sign this switch letter b/c FT bought you a better dinner. Then back to American Funds b/c FT isn’t working or the Alliance Bernstein chick is hot.
In addition, mutual funds are designed to make people mediocre returns. My clients are up quite a bit for the year and in some cases didn’t lose any account value during the downturn. 3% to them would be a small price to pay for that kind of return.