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[quote=JackBlack] If a client asks for a number like SD or Beta of their portfolio you should give it to them. You may have to put it into context for them but that is one of the things they pay us for. As I see it is my job to be on top of my client’s portfolio and I should have those numbers at my finger tips.
[/quote]
Being “on top of your client’s portfolio” has little to do with StDev or Beta. It has everything to do with matching investments to goals and time frames.
If you try and practice this for all of your clients you will not last long enough to gather enough clients to stay employed.
Incredible Hulk:
I have been doing it that way for over 10 years. You may not be able to do it but I can, my software downloads my portfolio data with just a couply of mouse clicks.[quote=smokescreen agent]
sure "junior broker" and "sales assistant" might be interchangeable to some degree in your mind but my role was much closer to that of an FA than you probably think [/quote]What I think is that being "much closer" to being an FA is still a far cry from "being" an FA. Maybe if you had ever actually been one you would better understand that.
[quote=smokescreen agent] Until my licenses are expired I feel pretty comfortable weighing in my opinion.[/quote]
Another illustration of your lack of understanding. Holding licenses - dormant or otherwise - gives one no basis to offer relevant opinions on a job you have never performed. OTOH, even if your licenses were terminated, your input could be helpful if you had ever had any meaningful experience in managing clients. It's the experience - or lack thereof - that counts.
Now if you wanted to offer opinions on being a SA based on your experience as an SA, your opinions could be helpful. But that is not what you are doing in this thread.
[quote=smokescreen agent]I think it's funny you are trying to attack me based on the fact I walked away to basically turn my hobby into a job, anyone in my situation would have done the same thing and by no means should that make my experiences, observations, and conclusions any less valid.[/quote]
Pointing out that you have zero relevant experience on which to base informed opinions hardly constitutes an attack, and contrary to your assertion a lack of relevant experience certainly does make your 'conclusions' (i.e. guesses) less valid, if not invalid.
[quote=smokescreen agent] If you have a problem with my opinion on the topic that's fine but to say I am off base simply because I took my career in a different direction that's weak.[/quote]
Your decision to leave the industry isn't the issue. It's the fact that you never worked as an FA, have zero experience managing clients, and in addition are not even presently in the industry, yet for some unfathomable reason you still feel compelled to offer your uniformed opinions to - and critique the opinions of - others who are actually doing the thing that you have never done.
[quote=Morphius] [quote=smokescreen agent]
sure "junior broker" and "sales assistant" might be interchangeable to some degree in your mind but my role was much closer to that of an FA than you probably think [/quote]What I think is that being "much closer" to being an FA is still a far cry from "being" an FA. Maybe if you had ever actually been one you would better understand that.
[quote=smokescreen agent] Until my licenses are expired I feel pretty comfortable weighing in my opinion.[/quote]
Another illustration of your lack of understanding. Holding licenses - dormant or otherwise - gives one no basis to offer relevant opinions on a job you have never performed. OTOH, even if your licenses were terminated, your input could be helpful if you had ever had any meaningful experience in managing clients. It's the experience - or lack thereof - that counts.
Now if you wanted to offer opinions on being a SA based on your experience as an SA, your opinions could be helpful. But that is not what you are doing in this thread.
[quote=smokescreen agent]I think it's funny you are trying to attack me based on the fact I walked away to basically turn my hobby into a job, anyone in my situation would have done the same thing and by no means should that make my experiences, observations, and conclusions any less valid.[/quote]
Pointing out that you have zero relevant experience on which to base informed opinions hardly constitutes an attack, and contrary to your assertion a lack of relevant experience certainly does make your 'conclusions' (i.e. guesses) less valid, if not invalid.
[quote=smokescreen agent] If you have a problem with my opinion on the topic that's fine but to say I am off base simply because I took my career in a different direction that's weak.[/quote]
Your decision to leave the industry isn't the issue. It's the fact that you never worked as an FA, have zero experience managing clients, and in addition are not even presently in the industry, yet for some unfathomable reason you still feel compelled to offer your uniformed opinions to - and critique the opinions of - others who are actually doing the thing that you have never done.
[/quote] Wow, don't spend too much time on this man... Bottom line is I have had clients assigned to me and i have seen similar questions asked. I know as well as you do that when a client asks about SD it is usually a sign they are compairing it to someone elses proposal, my point is that there's no sense in dancing around, if the client wants to know the value then it's part of the job to provide it best you can and then confront the reasons why, not start asking why they want it and only providing it if they have a large enough account or firing them otherwise. Be ready to explain the meaning of the number and be ready to possibly fight for the account but the going advice here was to not give the answer. It's just completely untrue when you say I never managed clients, or when you assume because my exact title was not the exact same as yours that I never handled these issues on my own, where are you getting your info? You have no idea what I have or have not done you're just assuming.
Did you really just say “clients assigned to you”?? oops there goes your credibility
Did you really just say “clients assigned to you”?? oops there goes your credibility
[quote=Squash1]Sorry that got long, at home sick…
Also for those of you who say, just calculate it, there is a disconnect there because you cannot accurately calculate a SD for all portfolios. Sure for mutual funds,etfs,stocks no problem plug it in Morningstar(is there a more jaded company) and get a read out, but for everything else... good luck[/quote] How about the return data and a calculalor?How about try to build assets and protect peoples portfolios, not work for morningstar… How long would it take you to run a standard deviation on 150 portfolios?
[quote=JackBlack]
Incredible Hulk:
I have been doing it that way for over 10 years. You may not be able to do it but I can, my software downloads my portfolio data with just a couply of mouse clicks.[/quote]
How many StDev’s from the mean are you over the last 12 months? Does it comfort your clients to know that? Can 90% of them even comprehend it? Did it help any of them retire last year? It’s all statistics and you know what they say, there are lies, damn lies and statistics.
10 years? Really? I’ve been out 73 years and have eleventy kabillion under management with a StDev of 9.3 and a Beta of .85.
Out.
Clients assigned to you?!
How presumptuous of me to question your total lack of experience!! What was I thinking?! I hadn’t fully realized that your boss had “assigned” a client to you to have for your very own!! To play real live FA with?! How totally exciting!! What outfit did you wear that day?! Was it just the coolest day ever?! OMG!!!
OK enough of the Bullsh*t!
This question most likely came from the client because some other broker called him and said "Do you know what the standard deviation of your portfolio is? If not how do you know if you are taking on too much risk. With the volatility of this market you should really know how you are invested, why don't you come in and we can review you portfolio" Should you tell the client? Absofrickenlutely! Why not? Bring him in for an appointment, run the morningstar (quick way to get std dev, I'm looking at one right now, std dev is 9.89) show him what it is and then tell him how it relates to and what effect it has on his portfolio. Then go back ask him if he remembers why you structured his portfolio this way in the beginning. This is not Rocket Surgery Time to go watch the National Championship game. Go Sooners!Again you can only use morningstar for funds, stocks and etfs…let’s assume he has bonds, private reits, uits, and the many other securities that can’t go into a morningstar report.
Sooners!(Only because I hate Florida)The real comedy here is that your self righteous ass thinks whether or not you cold called or had a rich uncle with an account changes the fact we are talking about a client service issue here. I’m not telling anyone how to prospect or what family parties to attend. The discussion of how to handle the client question has very little to do with whether I was all commission or not. You're a sales guy, do you not think the sales cycle is ongoing? Or do you think the first handshake locks them in for life? You tell me, was my compensation tied to performance or not? I love how you wear this shit like a badge man and in your small brain it makes you feel substantial, kudos to you when a client asks a simple question and you are either too dumb or cocky to answer it, yeah apparently anyone that works in the industry and is not titled "FA" knows nothing about how to handle sales and client servicing, you're fucking lost as you have no idea what my former role was and what my responsibilities were. Clearly you're just looking to discredit my opinion any way you can because my statement "the public is losing faith in the advisor model" is a threat to you, obviously you have some insecurity to focus on me so much here. Get off the boards and go sell more, that’s all you know how to do and every time you post towards me it exposes your lack of confidence more, just move on.Clients assigned to you?!
How presumptuous of me to question your total lack of experience!! What was I thinking?! I hadn’t fully realized that your boss had “assigned” a client to you to have for your very own!! To play real live FA with?! How totally exciting!! What outfit did you wear that day?! Was it just the coolest day ever?! OMG!!!
[quote=smokescreen agent]The real comedy here is that your self ritious ass thinks whether or not you cold called or had a rich uncle with an account changes the fact we are talking about a client service issue here. I’m not telling anyone how to prospect or what family parties to attend. The discussion of how to handle the question has very little to do with whether I was all commission or not. I love how you wear this shit like a badge man, kudos to you when a client asks a simple question and you are either too dumb or cocky to answer it. Get off the boards and go sell more, that’s all you know how to do.[/quote]
You’re a real piece of work, aren’t you lad? Are you really just a teenager pretending to be a former secretary pretending to be a former almost FA? Or are you really, honestly just a former secretary pretending to be a former almost FA?
Now out of the blue you suddenly start rambling incoherently about “rich uncles” and “family parties” and “all commission” or not, since you can’t face the basic issue that you persist in pretending to be something you never were: an FA with real clients. And you think I’m the one who is, ahem, … self “ritious”?
Dude, here’s some friendly advice: when you find yourself in a hole … STOP DIGGING!! Here there be monsters!!
Smokescreen,
You can go back and erase all your old posts from months ago describing your impressive career as a secretary all you want, it won’t change the facts. Every time you open your mouth you just dig yourself a deeper hole. Besides, try as you might you can’t erase your comments that have been quoted by others … so who are you kidding? I mean, other than yourself. Again.
You can choose to stop, or you can persist in your make believe fantasy world. Your call.
Let's just be friends and talk about standard deviation The fact you're digging through my posts seems a little crazy, no? Truth be told I deleted them because I know you will try to paint me as a negative guy or a burden to the community. I have nothing to hide about my career details, I just didn't want to make it easy for you to say "look at this grouchy bastard, he always argues!" I will admit my posts are generally negative but I noticed on some of my old threads you were a jerk. You should be nicer to strangers, you never know maybe someday I will be your client!Smokescreen,
You can go back and erase all your old posts from months ago describing your impressive career as a secretary all you want, it won’t change the facts. Every time you open your mouth you just dig yourself a deeper hole. You can choose to stop, or you can persist in your make believe fantasy world. Your call.
[quote=smokescreen agent]
Let’s just be friends and talk about standard deviation The fact you're digging through my posts seems a little crazy, no? You should be nicer to strangers, you never know maybe someday I will be your client![/quote]Most intelligent post I've seen from you yet.
Just don't hold your breath for ever becoming my client one day. Remember, I'm apt to fire people just for asking about standard deviation! What are the chances I would put up with your act long enough for you to become a client?
But if you stop digging, there won't be any dirt to fall back onto you.
I wish I could have said this as well sooner. That's pretty much my point. If a customer is yanking my chain and jerking me around, I'm not obligated to maintain the relationship and I choose not to. I have never been asked about standard deviation in my years in the business, but the few instances where I have been asked similar questions, every time, it spelled trouble...usually in the form of a competing advisor feeding my client their lines. A couple of times, I fired the client in question when it became apparent that we weren't going to be able to have a satisfactory relationship. I struggled on with a few of them, but dumped all my "problem" clients when I went independent, since it became obvious to me that I'd need to be more efficient with my time since I would be responsible for running my business in addition to producing. A client who doesn't respect my time is not someone I'm interested in maintaining. As someone mentioned earlier, you may choose to accept some potentially problematic clients early in your career when you are struggling to make it. I made that mistake myself. Perhaps it's not a mistake if these clients are the difference between your failure and your success, but you may well find yourself looking for a graceful exit once you are established and no longer need these types to be successful. Some of you may also have Wharton-educated clients who discuss alpha and beta in the same manner that most people discuss golf scores. That's not my target market. If it's yours, I'm happy for you. It's not mine, so you can save your disdain for the way I run my business. My clients are well satisfied with my service and efforts on their behalf and none of them have expressed any interest in knowing what the standard deviation of their portfolio is. If you make it long enough in this business, you'll learn that there are plenty of legal, acceptable and ethical ways to run a practice besides your own preferred method. I choose a different road and it's working fine for me and my clients, despite some of the concerns expressed here.<SPAN style=“WORD-SPACING: 0px; FONT: 13px -webkit-monospace; TEXT-INDENT: 0px; LETTER-SPACING: normal; BORDER-COLLAPSE: separate; orphans: 2; text-trans: none; widows: 2” =“Apple-style-span”>Those who seem to believe you are obligated to directly answer a question about standard deviation - or any such question - are missing the point.
If a client emails you out of the blue asking such a question (as was the case in which we are discussing), almost certainly the real issue has nothing to do with standard deviation, so simply answering the question is an exercise in futility. You could give them just about any answer and it would likely do nothing to make them feel more comfortable.
That’s because the real issue is that this client suddenly seems to have lost his trust in you. Asking a question about standard deviation is nothing more than a red flag alerting you to the existence of the real issue.
Given this, my experience has shown that simply answering the question will do nothing to address the trust issue. And I’ve also learned from painful experience that if you lose their trust, you’ve lost them - sooner or later. I prefer to press the issue directly and immediately, rather than tip-toe around it or let it fester.
This includes being willing to initiate a change (i.e. firing them) if and when it becomes apparent to me that they no longer seem inclined to trust me and take my counsel. Sometimes the issue can be resolved. Sometimes it can’t. But either way, it should not remain in limbo.
That is why I say the issue has nothing to do with standard deviation. And it certainly has nothing to do with “animosity toward the client” as exEJIR presumes. It is about being in control of what type of client you choose to work with, and being willing to actually be the advisor in that working relationship.
Morph
P.S. Smokescreen, I’m choosing to ignore your silly and uninformed comments about “people losing faith in the advisor model” which tells me you’re once again simply projecting from your bitter and unsuccessful experience in the industry.
What I’m still puzzled about is why you feel compelled to continue offering your opinions here at all. Maybe if you were actually in the business or had ever had any meaningful first hand experience managing clients as an FA (rather than simply functioning as a sales assistant), your opinions about managing clients or what you think might be “part of an FAs job” might be more relevant.
I’m not going to argue the fact that a client asking about SD throws up a red flag. I believe you have your head in the sand if you think any differently. That’s why I said you need to follow-up with the question of “what made you ask?” IMO Joe Public has lost confidience in their advisors, because too many advisors are telling their clients to “Just hang in there.” By no means am I including everyone on this board (so don’t jump down my throat), but answer me this question… When you are talking to a prospect, what are they saying their current advisor has told them or done for them in the last 12 months?
Wow, turned out to be an awesome thread!
FWIW, the client is a very small client that I only took on for the possibility of referrals. Yes, the 10 minutes it took to run Morningstar reports was a complete waste of my time, but I did it. The guy has an engineer's mind and is just curious. He actually enjoys reading finance books. You guys on here are funny.